Received: from delta.eecs.nwu.edu by mintaka.lcs.mit.edu id aa12980; 15 Feb 90 0:28 EST Received: from mailinglists.eecs.nwu.edu by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id ab09178; 14 Feb 90 22:35 CST Received: from mailinglists.eecs.nwu.edu by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id aa13370; 14 Feb 90 21:29 CST Date: Wed, 14 Feb 90 20:51:46 CST From: TELECOM Moderator [To]: telecom@eecs.nwu.edu Subject: TELECOM Digest V10 #101 BCC: Message-ID: <9002142051.ab06768@delta.eecs.nwu.edu> TELECOM Digest Wed, 14 Feb 90 20:50:00 CST Volume 10 : Issue 101 Today's Topics: Moderator: Patrick Townson Re: Question on Telephone Jacks (Bernard Mckeever) Re: Question on Telephone Jacks (William Degnan) Re: Sprint Makes An Offer You Can't Refuse! (60 Minutes Free) (Andy Malis) Re: Sprint Makes An Offer You Can't Refuse! (60 Minutes Free) (DanehyOakes) Re: Sprint Makes An Offer You Can't Refuse! (60 Minutes Free) (Joel Levin) Re: Recordings For Intra-LATA 10xxx Attempts (Paul D. Anderson) Re: Computerized Collect Calls (Wm Randolph Franklin) Re: Thank You For Using Vista-United (Paul Higgins) Re: More 900-ish Sleaze (700 == 900?) (Joel B. Levin) Re: British Telecom Dumps Mitel (Alayne McGregor) Re: Atlanta Airport and AOS Sleaze (Kim Greer) Re: Last Laugh! Noms de Guerre (Dolf Grunbauer) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bernard Mckeever Subject: Re: Question on Telephone Jacks Date: 13 Feb 90 13:00:49 GMT Reply-To: bmk@cbnews.ATT.COM (bernard.mckeever,54236,mv,3b045,508 960 6289) Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories The RJ47S is the universal data jack and requires the 97A type connecting block. The 97 A type connecting block has a specially keyed jack for use with data equipment. If the associated switch is in the wrong posistion for the type of data equipment used the signal will not reach the line. If you are using the FLL pad your equipment connects to pins 1&2, if you use program type data equipment it connects to pins 4&5. If memory serves me thr RJ11 connects pins 3&4 to the registered equipment. Hope this helps. Bernie McKeever ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Feb 90 20:05:36 CST From: William Degnan Subject: Re: Question on Telephone Jacks In a message of Thomas Lapp (1:382/31) writes: TL>I recently found out the hard way that a device which is expecting an TL>RJ-41S jack will not work with an RJ-11 jack (even though the modular TL>plug fits!). TL>I'm wondering what is unique about an RJ-41S termination other than TL>the fact that it seems to be used for data terminal equipment like TL>modems? TL>Thanks for any help you can give, Here it is. I hope _you_ know what do with it. USOC RJ41S To {R___________ Network {T_______ | | | | | | | _______ \___! | <-----| | | | |---[connected only at the | ___ \___|___! <-----| "!"s] _|___|_ | | |pad | | | |^^^| <-[programming resistor] |_____| | | | | | | | | | | | | 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 [screws -- can't 'ya tell?] 1| 2| 3| 4| 5| 6| 7| 8| ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ 1| 2| 3| 4| 5| 6| 7| 8| Miniature 8-position plug R T A R T A1 PR PC [To registered terminal equipment] / | | | | \ (FLL) (FLL)(MI)(P) (P) (MIC) USOC RJ11C To }T_______________ Network }R__________ | | | | | 0 0 0 0 0 0 1| 2| 3| 4| 5| 6| ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ 2| 3| 4| 5| | | R T \________/ To Registered Terminal Equipment Source: Armiger Voice And Data Products Catalog 1987, USOC Cross Reference Disclaimer: Contents do not constitute "advice" unless we are on the clock William Degnan | wdegnan@mcimail.com !wdegnan@at&tmail.com Communications Network Solutions | William.Degnan@telemail.com P.O. Box 9530, Austin, TX 78766 | voice: 512 323-9383 William Degnan -- via The Q Continuum (FidoNet Node 1:382/31) UUCP: ...!rpp386!tqc!39!wdegnan ARPA: wdegnan@f39.n382.z1.FIDONET.ORG ------------------------------ Subject: Re: Sprint Makes An Offer You Can't Refuse! (60 Minutes Free) Date: Wed, 14 Feb 90 15:28:19 -0500 From: Andy Malis > the WD-40 number to call is: 1-800 FON WD40. I just signed up (I haven't been a regular user of Sprint before). Before calling WD-40, I called my New England Telephone business office to have them flag my account so that only I could request default carrier changes. I then called WD-40. "Just say yes" to the questions. After I "won", I had to wait on hold for about 10 minutes before the Sprint rep answered the transferred call. Let's hear it for Sprint customer service. I explicitly asked if this would affect my primary carrier. The rep said no, but that was also available if I wished. I declined the offer. So, now I'll be getting a FONcard with 60 free minutes in the mail. And I'll have yet more plastic for my wallet. Andy Malis UUCP: {harvard,rutgers,uunet}!bbn!malis ------------------------------ From: Dan'l DanehyOakes Subject: Re: Sprint Makes An Offer You Can't Refuse! (60 Minutes Free) Date: 14 Feb 90 21:36:12 GMT Reply-To: Dan'l DanehyOakes Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA In article <3840@accuvax.nwu.edu> Schwartz.osbunorth@xerox.com writes: >For those who are interested, the WD-40 number to call is: 1-800 FON WD40. >[Moderator's Note: Yes, but are they then sneaking you over to Sprint >as default carrier in the process? I'd be surprised if they were not! I just called the number, and answered the quiz and, when I got to the USS office *asked* them about this. The guy unambiguously denied that they were changing the default carrier on me, so if they *do* there's grounds for small claims court -- or class action. Meanwhile, I got my free hour of LD:*) Also: Their phone system is screwed up (heeheehee). I answered the silly quiz, it "transferred" me to USSprint, then I got music on hold for a while. Beep. Long pause. Sound of ringing... then I got put through the quiz again! (But then it connected me to the US Sprint office with no particular delay.) Still, it sounds like a no-lose situation... Does anyone really need a billion dollar rocket Does anyone need a $60,000 car Does anyone need another President Or the sins of Swaggart parts 6,7,8 and 9 Does anyone need another politician Caught with his pants down money sticking in his hole Does anyone need another racist preacher Spittin' in the wind can only do you harm Strawman, going straight to the devil Strawman, going straight to hell --Lou Reed Dan'l Danehy-Oakes ------------------------------ From: "Joel B. Levin" Subject: Re: Sprint Makes An Offer You Can't Refuse! (60 Minutes Free) Date: Wed, 14 Feb 90 15:11:56 EST From: Schwartz.osbunorth@xerox.com >[Moderator's Note: Yes, but are they then sneaking you over to Sprint >as default carrier in the process? I'd be surprised if they were not! >Find out first -- not next month when telco's bill announces your new >default carrier! If you have to pay $5 to change it back, or spend an >hour on the phone arguing with Sprint, it isn't worth it. PT] It only takes me five minutes with New England Telephone to fix that. Maybe I should try it. Sprint's already my default. :-) /JBL ------------------------------ From: "Paul D. Anderson" Subject: Re: Recordings For Intra-LATA 10xxx Attempts Date: 14 Feb 90 15:28:07 GMT Organization: Sales Technologies Inc., "The Prototype IS the Product..." tom@sje.mentor.com (Tom Ace @ PCB x2021) writes: >Here in 408 land, if I try to specify a particular carrier for an >intra-LATA call with 10xxx, the wording of the recording I get is curious > "We're sorry, it is not necessary to dial a long distance company > access code for the number you have dialed. Please hang up and try > your call again." Same happens here in Atlanta (404 land). Paul Anderson * h:404-565-0761 w:841-4000 {mathcs.emory,gatech}.edu!stiatl!pda || pda@SalesTech.Com ------------------------------ From: Wm Randolph Franklin Subject: Re: Computerized Collect Calls Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy NY Date: 14 Feb 90 17:21:37 GMT In article <3593@accuvax.nwu.edu> wmartin@stl-06sima.army.mil (Will Martin) writes: >The telco has a history of charging called numbers in cases of >long-distance abuse, like blue boxing and college-student fraud, but >there are major differences between billing the called party in cases >where the evidence is many many-minute-long calls all to that number, >versus cases in which the called party didn't do anything but >explicitly reject a call, or just hung up! What is Ma Bell's legal basis for this? If someone calls me how is it my responsibility? Even if they're my minor kid, I'm not responsible for their debts except for necessities. The only possible hooks would seem to be 1) if they got a wiretap order and by listening proved I was an accomplice, or 2) could identify, and threatened to charge the other person unless he (or a rich relative) paid up. However, that has to be done just right or it's barratry. Even if I suspected the caller was committing a crime, what am I supposed to do? Every day I witness more serious crimes (on the roads) but am not expected to report them. In fact some people who reported crimes have been sued for privacy violation. Wm. Randolph Franklin Internet: wrf@ecse.rpi.edu (or @cs.rpi.edu) Bitnet: Wrfrankl@Rpitsmts Telephone: (518) 276-6077; Telex: 6716050 RPI TROU; Fax: (518) 276-6261 Paper: ECSE Dept., 6026 JEC, Rensselaer Polytechnic Inst, Troy NY, 12180 ------------------------------ From: Paul Higgins Subject: Re: Thank You For Using Vista-United Reply-To: phiggins@orion.oac.uci.edu (Paul Higgins) Organization: University of California, Irvine Date: Tue, 13 Feb 90 18:14:15 GMT I noticed last Friday (9 February 1990) that the payphones at Disneyland are also owned and operated by Vista-United. Each of the phones had an information card with Vista-United's Florida address (and Mickey's picture, of course). At Walt Disney World, you can visit an exhibit in EPCOT Center's Communicore about the infrastructure (sewage, power, phones, etc.) Disney built and maintains in and around Walt Disney World. They're rather proud of the fact that Vista-United was the world's first all-Touch-Tone phone company. (They just never installed rotary phones when they build Walt Disney World.) Paul Higgins phiggins@oac.uci.edu Office of Academic Computing phiggins@uci.bitnet University of California, Irvine ------------------------------ From: "Joel B. Levin" Subject: Re: TELECOM Digest V10 #100 Date: Wed, 14 Feb 90 15:13:23 EST >From: ansok@stsci.edu >much attention to the commercials when one of them (I think it was for >a teenage "chat line") flashed a very interesting phone number on the >screen: > >104-441-700-TALK-121 > >[Moderator's Note: Some of the OCC's have their own methods of >fleecing the public; Allnet and their talk lines being one example. >What you saw advertised is just another 900-like service. PT] Looks like a new way to avoid 900 blocking to me. /JBL ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Feb 90 00:55:09 EST From: Alayne McGregor Subject: Re: British Telecom Dumps Mitel In Telecom-Digest: Volume 10, Issue 68, message 2 of 11, julian@bongo.uucp (julian macassey) writes: < From The Economist January 27 1990: < "British Telecom is selling its 51% stake in Mitel, the < Canadian maker of computerised telephone switchboards. The most likely ^^^^^^^^ < bidders are Japan's NEC and Fijitsu, Siemens, France's Alcatel and < American Telephone and Telegraph." < Will this leave AT&T as the only surviving US PBX manufacturer? ^^ Mitel's head office and research centre is in Ottawa, Canada. It is a Canadian company. One should not confuse U.S. with North American. And, no, I don't work for Mitel. Alayne McGregor {dciem!nrcaer,dgbt}!gandalf!alayne ------------------------------ From: klg@dukeac.UUCP (Kim Greer) Subject: Re: Atlanta Airport and AOS Sleeze Date: 14 Feb 90 11:32:52 GMT Reply-To: klg@dukeac.UUCP (Kim Greer) Organization: Academic Computing, Duke University, Durham, NC In article <3789@accuvax.nwu.edu> jgd@rsiatl.uucp writes: >X-Telecom-Digest: Volume 10, Issue 96, message 1 of 10 >In comp.dcom.telecom you write: >This fine service is brought to you via the fine services of the >National Telephone Services AOS. I wrote the software that runs their >switch. I currently have a lawsuit pending against them for, among >other things, fraud, kidnapping, assault, RICO violations and so on. ^^^^^^^^^^ WOW! Talk about "reach out and touch someone"!! ------------------------------ Organization: Philips Information Systems, P.O. Box 245, Subject: Re: Last Laugh! Noms de Guerre Date: Wed, 14 Feb 90 21:23:18 MET From: Dolf Grunbauer Apparently they are not so strict in the Netherlands concerning names in telephone directories. In any city with an university you can find the most wonderful names listed under the students homes, such as (for Eindhoven): beuckingham palace (note: a `beuk' is a tree and the house happens to be at the beukenlaan), breakfast at noon, crequeouaqueouo, draai's 4 5 4 7 6 3 (meaning `dail 454763' and yes that's there telephone number), dry martini shake dont stire, he een jongen aan het ontbijt (he, there is a boy at breakfast), het huis van mevr. roelofs (the home of mw roelofs, that is a real nice one to ask the telephone operator :-), langs 219 (meaning: next door to 219, as they live at 217), langs 217 (the neighboors of the previous one), oedipuscomptex, oh oh seven (as they live in the bondstreet), om 7 uur wordt gegeten (breakfast/dinner at 7), pink and icecream, probeer morgen nog eens (try again tomorrow), we hadden graag een katje (we would like to have a kitten), the white house, wenementochnietop (wedon'tanswerthephone), xguppoekopperaftottoptbot, 42 b or not 2 b (as there house number is 42b) Dolf Grunbauer Tel: +31 55 433233 Internet dolf@idca.tds.philips.nl Philips Telecommunication and Data Systems UUCP ....!mcvax!philapd!dolf Dept. SSP, P.O. Box 245, 7300 AE Apeldoorn, The Netherlands n n n It's a pity my .signature is too small to show you my solution of a + b = c ------------------------------ End of TELECOM Digest V10 #101 ******************************   Received: from delta.eecs.nwu.edu by mintaka.lcs.mit.edu id aa14551; 15 Feb 90 1:26 EST Received: from mailinglists.eecs.nwu.edu by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id aa22862; 14 Feb 90 23:40 CST Received: from mailinglists.eecs.nwu.edu by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id ac09178; 14 Feb 90 22:35 CST Date: Wed, 14 Feb 90 21:41:33 CST From: TELECOM Moderator [To]: telecom@eecs.nwu.edu Subject: TELECOM Digest V10 #102 BCC: Message-ID: <9002142141.ab17963@delta.eecs.nwu.edu> TELECOM Digest Wed, 14 Feb 90 21:40:33 CST Volume 10 : Issue 102 Today's Topics: Moderator: Patrick Townson Brief TDD History (Curtis E. Reid) Common TDD Terms (Curtis E. Reid) TDD Specifications (Curtis E. Reid) Re: Communications With The Deaf (Fred E. J. Linton) Re: Communications With The Deaf (Curtis E. Reid) Re: Communications With The Deaf (Jody Kravitz) Voices Out of the Ether (Ken Dykes) 305/407 Local Calls and Zipcode Correlation (Carl Moore) How to Choose a Quality Cordless Phone? (Joseph Chan) Re: Calling Card Numbers (Joel B. Levin) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 14 Feb 90 19:25 EST From: "Curtis E. Reid" Subject: Brief TDD History Telephone Devices for Deaf Users: Milestones Source: _1990 International Telephone Directory for TDD Users_ by Telecommunications for the Deaf, Inc., 814 Thayer Avenue, Silver Spring, MD 20910, Copyright 1989. 1964: An acoustic coupler modified for Baudot which permitted teletypewriters to be connected to standard telephones, was invented by Robert Weitbrecht, a deaf scientist. Dr. James C. Marsters, a deaf orthodontist, had sent Weitbrecht a Teletype Model 32ASR with a request that a system be set up so that Marsters, in Pasadena, California, could communicate with Weitbrecht in Redwood City. Unlike Weitbrecht, Marsters did not have a ham radio license, so they decided to use the public phone system. Weitbrecht's acoustic coupler was based on a half duplex operation in which signals are transmitted one at a time. Teletypewriters were Baudot coded. These machines were available because AT&T, Western Union and other communications companies were in the process of conversion to a new telegraphic code. Weitbrecht's acoustic coupler was first publicly demonstrated at the 1964 biennial meeting of the Alexander Graham Bell Association for the Deaf, Salt Lake City, Utah. 1968: Approximately 25 teletypewriter stations were in operation for/by the deaf. 1969: Tax-exempt status was granted to TDI [Telecommunications for the Deaf, Inc.] by the U.S. Internal Revenue Service. 1971: "Scanatype", a digital readout form of the TTY was introduced by ESSCO Communications. 1979: Telecommunication Device for the Deaf (TDD) was accepted as the appellation for all TTY-like devices. 1985: Krown Research introduced dual ASCII/Baudot modems to be used with dumb terminals. Audiobionics, Inc. introduced an enhanced version of a synthesized voice "talking" portable TDD. Ultratec, Inc. introduced a low-cost basic TDD. Other manufacturers discontinued production of TDDs as competition for lower cost TDDs increased. Nevada Association for the Deaf hosted the Sixth TDI Convention. Distribution of free TDDs began in many more states such as Florida, Arizona, Nevada, Wisconsin, Illinois and Massachusetts. 1987: California opened first state-wide, 24 hour, 7 day a week relay service operated by AT&T. 1988: President Ronald Reagan signed the bill to expand federal telecommunication services for speech and hearing-impaired people; which was introduced by Representative Steve Gunderson (R-WI) and Senator John McCain (R-AZ). ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Feb 90 19:26 EST From: "Curtis E. Reid" Subject: Common TDD Terms Common TDD/TTY Terms TTY Teletypewriter TDD Telecommunication Device for the Deaf GA Go Ahead, your turn to type SK Stop Key, meaning end of conversation CUZ Because HD Hold, please PLS Please OIC Oh, I see U You UR Your CD Could Q Question mark (Also ?) MTG Meeting R Are NBR Number (Also NU or NO) OPR Operator CUL See you later SHD Should WLD Would TMW Tommorrow (Also TOM) * To be effective, punctuations are not used during TDD conversations. * Please identify yourself while answering TDD calls as it is rather difficult to recognize one's voice through printed letters. * Tap the space bar several times for numbers that use both TDD and Voice. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Feb 90 19:25 EST From: "Curtis E. Reid" Subject: TDD Specifications Specifications For TDD Data Transmit/Receive All TDD manufacturers follow these specs but no tolerance level is given: 1. Acoustic coupling (standard G- and K- type handset) Input level: 65 dB SPL minimum / 110 db SPL maximum -4 2 (0 dB SPL = 2 x 10 dyne/cm ) Output level: 95 dB SPL minimum / 100 dB SPL maximum (acoustic pressure to produce a -9 dBm signal at the telephone set line terminals on an average loop) 2. Direct modular connection Connector: standard 6-position modular jack USOC No.: RJ11C Input level: -50 dBm minimum / 0 dBm maximum Output level: -13 dBm minimum / -9 dBm maximum 3. Modem Modulation method: Frequency Shift Keying Mark frequency: 1400 Hz +-5 Hz Space frequency: 1800 Hz +-5 Hz Signal to noise ratio: 13 dB Carrier to data delay: 180 ms Carrier to hold time: 156 ms 4. Protocol Code: Baudot Mode: Half duplex Transmissions: Asynchronous Start bit: 1 Stop bit: 1 Data bits: 5 Parity: None Data rate: 45.5 baud (buffered) Note: The above information is from Plantronics, Inc. (manufacturer of the Vu-Phone) and is assumed to be consistent with other brands as the Vu-Phone is compatible with all other TDDUs. (1985) ------------------------------ Date: 14-FEB-1990 02:44:55.14 From: "Fred E.J. Linton" Subject: "Re: Communications With The Deaf In article <3794@accuvax.nwu.edu> johnl@esegue.segue.boston.ma.us (John R. Levine) writes: > Probably more > productive would be to produce a second generation of TDD terminals > that handle both the old Telex signalling and 300 baud 103 signalling. It's been done: The same company that produced the $50.00 Pronto Home Banking terminal for Chemical Bank, Union Trust Co., et al., has a two-speed two-window TDD terminal: the company is AT&T; the old Pronto terminal was their model 1300; the TDD (which operates both at standard TDD speed and at 300 baud) is the model 1310. It's a combination of keyboard, answer/originate modem, and video-display driver (using any TV set, and providing 24 40-character lines), and it incorporates a serial printer port (fixed at 1200 baud on the 1300) and a number of other useful details. It seems not to be marketed very aggressively in the literature that gets to me -- I saw one series of ads for it in a primary education computer monthly about a year ago, and nothing else -- but I did have occasion two years ago or so to learn whom at AT&T to contact for sales and service on it (I'll spare you the agonizing details of the merry month-long 800-number chase the AT&T phone-answer-maidens led me along until I found him): that's Anthony (Tony) J. Curreri AT&T Information Systems Morristown, NJ 07960 Voice: +1 201 644 3713 AT&T Mail: !curreri (numeric ID: !2271382) according to an attmail DIR inquiry I just did, assuming no digits got garbled in transmission. -- Fred Fred E.J. Linton Wesleyan U. Math. Dept. 649 Sci. Tower Middletown, CT 06457 ARPA/Internet: FLINTON@eagle.Wesleyan.EDU Bitnet: FLINTON@WESLEYAN[.bitnet] on ATT-Mail: !fejlinton ( ...!attmail!fejlinton ) Tel.: + 1 203 776 2210 (home) OR + 1 203 347 9411 x2249 (work) Telex: + 15 122 3413 FEJLINTON and now on MCI-Mail (thanks Paul!): FEJLINTON or 4142427@mcimail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Feb 90 10:22 EST From: "Curtis E. Reid" Subject: Re: Communications with the Deaf In Telecom Digest #99: >From: "Roy M. Silvernail" >Subject: Re: Communications With The Deaf >What *I* would like to see is a terminal emulator (such as for a PC) >that will do TDD. A 45 baud signal should be trivial to do in the >300-bps section of an ordinary modem, I would think. (course, I have >been mistaken before. I'm sure I'll find out soon if this really *is* >as easy as I think :-) There are several TDD emulators for PCs and a couple other personal computers. It is easy to covert an 8-bit ASCII to 5-bit BAUDOT. The other problem is the timing and speed of TDD transmission as well as hardware constraints. Some modems can't go below 110 bps. Macintosh serial ports can't even go that low! Several software products are on the market. But, as I have said earlier in my prior article, purchase of a TDD is considered significant to them and a purchase of a personal computer is like buying a car (so to speak). The market for TDD emulators in PCs is weak. I'm a Macintosh user so I'm not too enthusaistic about purchasing a PC just to use a TDD. (Someday that might change. :-)) Curtis Reid CER2520@RITVAX.Bitnet CER2520%RITVAX.Bitnet@cunyvm.cuny.edu (Internet) CER2520@vaxd.isc.rit.edu (Not Reliable-NYSernet) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Feb 90 11:02:21 PST From: Jody Kravitz Subject: Re: Communications With The Deaf On the issue of "lower connect time rates for TDD calls": The effective baud rate of a typist is very low. It would appear that an interactive connection through a packet-switched network could be provided at a lower connect time cost. Compare the cost of direct calling vs. PC Pursuit. Any of the big "information service" vendors could provide this, along with E-mail if they wanted to. The "information service" vendors should have an incentive: Hearing impaired users might spend the money they saved on long distance calls on other (more profitable) information services. Jody P.S. To reply to me Internet: foxtail!kravitz@ucsd.edu uucp: ucsd!foxtail!kravitz ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Feb 90 20:51:30 EST From: Ken Dykes Subject: Voices Out of the Ether I found this in alt.sources.wanted, thought perhaps some telecom folks may find it of interest if they didnt already see it... -ken From: mdc@planet.bt.co.uk (Martin Chapman) Subject: Re: Voice over Ethernet Date: 13 Feb 90 16:12:47 GMT Organization: RT511, BT Research Labs, Martlesham Heath, Ipswich, UK In reponse to the following: Does anybody out there know of any voice/phone packages that run over ethernet (and/or TCP/IP). I am interested in being able to plug in a microphone or telephone into my Sun Sparc station, and be able to phone other people on the net. Here are some of the replies. >From: dwf@gov.lanl.acl.hope > >Get the audio.shar file from expo.lcs.mit.edu in the contrib >directory. It implements an audio extension to X and allows one to >talk with a microphone to any number of other Workstations, sort of a >conference call. Pretty slick. Who needs the telephone company? > >David Forslund >Advanced Computing Laboratory >MS B287 >Los Alamos National Laboratory >Los Alamos, NM 87545 > >(505) 665-1907 >(dwf@lanl.gov) >From: bender@com.sun > > You could try something like this (check my syntax): > > $ rsh remote_machine cat \>/dev/audio >this should take whatever you input over the audio port and send >it to the remote machine's audio port > >mike bender >sun >From: gnu@com.toad > >The program "/usr/demo/sound" can be hacked down to do this. >Probably the best thing to do is to split it into two programs, >one that just plays sounds from standard input, the other records >sounds and spits them out on standard output. Then you can do: > > $ mike | rsh hostname speaker > $ rsh hostname mike | speaker > >and have a two-way audio conduit set > John Gilmore >From: sakoh@jp.co.sra.us.sraco2 > >Yes, I have one. > >Actually it was posted onto the news group 'fj.sources' in >JUNET (japan university network). It's called vtalk (voice talk). > >The author's e-mail address is: > > kamei@cs1.cs.oki.co.jp > >I also have a copy of the source, and I can send it to you. >Unfortunately, all documents are written in Japanese. >But it would be easy to install since it is a very small (== 1K lines in C) >program. > >-- H. Sakoh > > sakoh@sraco1.uu.net Thanks for the replies. Martin Chapman PhD, BSc, SMBCS, B/Tec, GCE, CSE, 11+ British Telecom Research Labs, Martlesham Heath, Suffolk, U.K. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Feb 90 13:05:42 EST From: Carl Moore (VLD/VMB) Subject: 305/407 Local Calls and Zipcode Correlation How are local calls made across the 305/407 border? From a call guide, I notice that: Boca Raton (area 407) is local to Coral Springs, Deerfield Beach, Delray Beach, Pompano Beach (and Boca Raton) Deerfield Beach (area 305) is local to Boca Raton, Coral Springs, Delray Beach, Fort Lauderdale, Pompano Beach (and Deerfield Beach)--in other words, the Boca Raton calling area & Ft.Laud. How does this look? 327xx (except that part in 904), 328xx, 329xx are in 407. 330xx, 331xx, 332xx, 333xx stay in 305. 334xx is split between 305 and 407. (349xx is split the same way as 334xx.) ------------------------------ From: Joseph Chan Subject: How to Choose a Quality Cordless Phone? Date: 14 Feb 90 21:31:06 GMT Reply-To: Joseph Chan Organization: University of Washington, Seattle I am looking to buy a cordless phone in the price range $100 - $200. Could some one recommend a cordless phone that you are happy with? The phone is for the home use. What are the most important features that you want in a cordless phone? Intercom between phone set and the base? Number of channels? Security features? Range (distance between base and phone set) ? Thank you for any information you may have. Please send e-mail to joseph@nsr.bioeng.washington.edu, joseph@blake.u.washington.edu or joseph@milton.u.washington.edu ------------------------------ From: "Joel B. Levin" Subject: Re: Calling Card Numbers Date: Wed, 14 Feb 90 15:20:17 EST My first calling card from New England Telephone was of the form 123 4567 001 H Where the first seven digits were my real phone number (there might have been a 617 (NPA) in front also, but my memory is hazy). Every year I got a new card, identical to the old one except for the trailing letter. I assumed the 001 was in case of conciding numbers (that's why I think the NPA was left out) or for sub-accounts. On a visit to the Boston telco I saw how it worked. (This was in the early '70s.) We walked through the room full of TSPs (the operator positions where operator-assisted calls -- credit card, collect, person, etc. were handled). On top of each console was a little sign. On the sign was a list of digit - letter pairs, and the instruction to look at the (say) fourth digit. Then if the fourth digit of the credit card number was 4, the chart showed a corresponding H. Each year presumably the table and the particular digit were changed. How's that for security? /JBL [Moderator's Note: That last group of digits, the '001' in your case, was known as the RAO Code, or Regional Accounting Office Code. The numbers increased going west. I think I recall the one in Chicago was 017. There was no area code on the front, since the RAO served more or less the same function. The code changed annually, with the letter sometimes relating to either the 4th, 5th, 6th or 7th digit. One year the fifth digit would be used, with letters assigned to the numbers 0-9 which might appear there. The next year, different letters assigned to the possible digit, and maybe they used the last digit in the phone number part of the card. Every January, a group of phreaks would sit down and (after first promising not to abuse each other's cards) have a mutual examination of phone numbers and key letters. Any half dozen reasonably intelligent people could decipher the 'secret formula' by reviewing what was known about each other's cards. That system was discontinued in the late seventies in favor of the present scheme. PT] ------------------------------ End of TELECOM Digest V10 #102 ******************************   Received: from delta.eecs.nwu.edu by mintaka.lcs.mit.edu id aa09567; 16 Feb 90 0:24 EST Received: from mailinglists.eecs.nwu.edu by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id aa20564; 15 Feb 90 22:48 CST Received: from mailinglists.eecs.nwu.edu by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id aa10674; 15 Feb 90 21:43 CST Date: Thu, 15 Feb 90 21:32:17 CST From: TELECOM Moderator [To]: telecom@eecs.nwu.edu Subject: TELECOM Digest V10 #103 BCC: Message-ID: <9002152132.ab05761@delta.eecs.nwu.edu> TELECOM Digest Thu, 15 Feb 90 21:30:06 CST Volume 10 : Issue 103 Today's Topics: Moderator: Patrick Townson Re: Phone Calls at the Speed of Light (Chuck Huffington) Re: Questions About LiTel (Martin L. Schoffstall) Re: Computerized Collect Calls (Will Martin) Re: Can I Be Charged to Have My Number Not Listed? (Julian Macassey) Re: Telephone Number Lengths in the UK (Linc Madison) Re: 415-694 Changed to 415-604 (Linc Madison) Re: Sprint Makes An Offer You Can't Refuse! (60 Minutes Free) (Len Levine) Re: Atlanta Airport and AOS Sleeze (David E. Bernholdt) Re: AT&T Behind Blocking of Japanese Business Phone Systems? (K. Blatter) Re: How to Choose a Quality Cordless Phone? (Jeff E. Nelson) Re: Transferring a Call With Three-Way Calling (Linc Madison) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: chuckh@apex.UUCP (Chuck Huffington) Subject: Re: Phone Calls at the Speed of Light Date: 14 Feb 90 22:03:44 GMT Reply-To: uunet!apex!chuckh Organization: Apex Computer Co., Redmond WA With all the concern about what fraction of c a signal propagates on various cable types. I began to wonder what the time delay is to get through channel banks and time division switches. Anybody have any information? Chuck Huffington ------------------------------ From: "Martin L. Schoffstall" Subject: Re: Questions About LiTel Reply-To: "Martin L. Schoffstall" Organization: Performance Systems International, Reston, Virginia 22091 Date: Wed, 14 Feb 90 22:29:07 GMT I believe the LiTel that you are talking about is owned by Williams Telecommunications Group (WTG) of Tulsa Oklahoma. (There are unfortunately 3 "Telephone Companies" that sound like some spelling of LiTel in North America). WTG is famous for running interstate fiber through gas pipelines owned by its parent: The Williams Company. Martin L. Schoffstall Performance Systems Internationl Inc. Reston Virgina, US schoff@psi.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Feb 90 8:12:51 CST From: Will Martin Subject: Re: Computerized Collect Calls >>The telco has a history of charging called numbers in cases of >>long-distance abuse, like blue boxing and college-student fraud... >What is Ma Bell's legal basis for this? Gee, I thought it was the same as Ma Bell's "legal basis" for *everything* they do --- "We're THE TELEPHONE COMPANY, and we can do *anything* we want..." :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) Regards, Will ------------------------------ From: julian macassey Subject: Re: Can I Be Charged to Have My Number Not Listed? Date: 15 Feb 90 04:22:03 GMT Organization: The Hole in the Wall Hollywood CA U.S.A. In article <3827@accuvax.nwu.edu>, john@bovine.ati.com (John Higdon) writes: > The latest count shows that more than 50% of telco customers in the LA > area have unlisted numbers. That figure is growing. Yes, I know this is "LA", but 50% of the population are not rich or famous, maybe 3% are. But every dreary little lawyer you meet is unlisted. Tired and unattractive secretaries are unlisted. I once knew a welfare mother and drug fiend who was unlisted. Yet I do know some real celebs here that are in the book. I wonder what 50% of the population of LA think they are avoiding. Certainly not the boiler rooms peddling the LA Times, they dial sequentially. In parts of real America that I visit, I notice that everyone in town is listed. The Doctors even give their home phone numbers. In LA you get to talk to an incompetant answering service while you expire. "We must get together soon." Julian Macassey, n6are julian@bongo.info.com {ucla-an!denwa!bongo!julian N6ARE@K6IYK (Packet Radio) n6are.ampr.org [44.16.0.81] voice (213) 653-4495 [Moderator's Note: I came across a case the other day in a small town where the *Post Office* had a non-pub number. It was a real little town with one of those dinky post offices which are operated out of the postmaster's home; and the postmaster pays the phone bill. He did not want his number listed, so that, as they say, was that. PT] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Feb 90 00:29:07 PST From: Linc Madison Subject: Re: Telephone Number Lengths in the UK Organization: University of California, Berkeley In article <3609@accuvax.nwu.edu> Kevin Hopkins writes: >X-Telecom-Digest: Volume 10, Issue 83, message 2 of 8 >UK area codes are currently of varying length. Here is a list of the >area code/subscriber number combinations. In the following N=2..9; >M=0,2..9 (no digit 1); X=0..9. EEE=NXX, EE=NX. >ii) All the other areas have area codes of the form 0NMX. The complete > number is 0NMX-EEXXXX (e.g. 0602-810000 could be a Nottingham number) > where EE is the exchange number. 81 is a West Bridgford exchange. >Those two are the main form of UK 'phone numbers. Some of the >exchanges have not be modernised, though, and this gives rise to two >sub-classes of class ii) numbers: >iii) Some numbers have the normal class ii) length area code and a shorter > subscriber number (usually 5 digits instead of 6). There is one thing that puzzles me, though. A friend whose phone has been scheduled to be "modernized" was telling me about the procedure. She lives in Chester,(0244). Her home phone is currently 5 digits, let's say NUMBR. As of some date in the future, it will be 3NUMBR. Thus, if the current format is EEXXX, it will become EEEXXX, while some of the existing 6-digit numbers are EEXXXX. Subtle difference, but it can have interesting ramifications. Also, just as a personal note, I thought it quite quaint when I placed a call from a phone with a five-digit area code (six, if you include the 0) and a three-digit local number. Oh, well; on with progress. Linc Madison = rmadison@euler.berkeley.edu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Feb 90 01:08:41 PST From: Linc Madison Subject: Re: 415-694 Changed to 415-604 Organization: University of California, Berkeley In article <3624@accuvax.nwu.edu> it is written: >X-Telecom-Digest: Volume 10, Issue 84, message 9 of 11 >I have heard that (in 415 area) 694 at Moffett Field (it's a Mountain >View exchange) they ran out of numbers, and thus Moffett Field >converted to 604 on 15 January. Small world! I recently was given a phone message on which the number to call was miswritten 604-XXXX instead of 644-XXXX. Since 604 is a new exchange not listed in the front of even the new phone book, and since I was calling from the office of a non-profit very concerned about toll calls, I wanted to know if the number was local. I called the operator and asked where that exchange was located and whether it was local. I was told Mountain View, and that it was Zone 2. I was calling from Berkeley, which is roughly 40 miles from Mountain View; Zone 2 is 8-12 miles. Unless it's a Mt. View exchange mapped as downtown San Francisco, there's something screwy afoot. Fortunately, I realized that the person the message was from couldn't be in Mountain View, and found the right number with a little checking. Linc Madison = rmadison@euler.berkeley.edu ------------------------------ From: Leonard P Levine Subject: Re: Sprint Makes An Offer You Can't Refuse! (60 Minutes Free) Date: 15 Feb 90 16:17:23 GMT Reply-To: len@csd4.csd.uwm.edu From article <3840@accuvax.nwu.edu>, by Schwartz.osbunorth@xerox.com: > I called the 800 number and "managed" to answer the questions > correctly. (Question #1: Will WD-40 remove adhesives from surfaces? > Question #2: Will WD-40 remove tar from your car? End-of-quiz!) > Has anyone else done this? Any known snags involved? I just called them. Same results. They did tell me however, that there is a $0.75 charge for each call made, and that that charge is independent of the 60 minutes free. > For those who are interested, the WD-40 number to call is: 1-800 FON > WD40. Don't try on weekends, because after you finish the quiz they By the way, I called from my university office, and gave them my office phone number. Hope the University does not get its service changed. :-) + - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - + | Leonard P. Levine e-mail len@evax.cs.uwm.edu | | Professor, Computer Science Office (414) 229-5170 | | University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee Home (414) 962-4719 | | Milwaukee, WI 53201 U.S.A. FAX (414) 229-6958 | + - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - + [Moderator's Note: I also called, and gave them the number of my voicemail service. I sure hope Centel Phone Company in Des Plaines, IL does not get its long distance service changed either! :) PT] ------------------------------ From: "David E. Bernholdt" Subject: Re: Atlanta Airport and AOS Sleeze Date: 15 Feb 90 17:51:37 GMT Reply-To: "David E. Bernholdt" Organization: University of Florida Quantum Theory Project >In article <3755@accuvax.nwu.edu> David Lesher writes: >>What's the situation nowadays @ Atlanta's airport? In article <3790@accuvax.nwu.edu> drilex!carols@husc6.harvard.edu (Carol Springs) writes: X-Telecom-Digest: Volume 10, Issue 96, message 2 of 10 >I ... dialed Sprint's 800 number. I successfully used my >FONCARD and was later billed by Sprint for the eight-minute call. I was through there at the end of January and made numerous calls through MCI's 950 number. The bill showed up yesterday with nothing untoward on it. I did notice when I was there that some phones didn't seem to like the 950 number, so I just moved to another one. I didn't see any pattern. David Bernholdt bernhold@qtp.ufl.edu Quantum Theory Project bernhold@ufpine.bitnet University of Florida Gainesville, FL 32611 904/392 6365 ------------------------------ From: Kevin Blatter Subject: Re: AT&T Behind Blocking of Japanese Business Phone Systems? Date: 15 Feb 90 21:52:27 GMT Organization: AT&T BL Middletown/Lincroft NJ USA In article <3832@accuvax.nwu.edu>, john@bovine.ati.com (John Higdon) writes: > Karl Denninger writes: > > "Protection" from imaginary evils, or from honest competition won't > > change this. Only the hard realities of the marketplace will -- if > > consumers refuse to deal with firms that engage in these practices. > AT&T may have shot itself in the foot on this one. When the tariffs > when into effect, Matsushita immediately stopped shipping product and > focused its attention on equipping its Great Britain plant to produce > the Panasonic KX-T line. Systems shipped from Great Britain are not > subject to the AT&T protection racket. > What this means is that you can now, once again, buy the Panasonic at > reasonable prices from the usual outlets. But now the Japanese and > others have been alerted to how AT&T plays the game (talk about unfair > competition!) and will not let that happen again. Most of your major > offshore telecom firms are now concentrating on producing their > superior, lower cost wares right here in the US. > So if AT&T thought it could sweep away competition with a wave of the > hand, it was sadly mistaken. It will now be faced with leaner, meaner, > competition that is producing product right here. How will its friends > in the government protect it now? Maybe, just maybe, AT&T will be > forced to join the real world of the marketplace. Too bad competition > is a four-letter word to AT&T. I have read with amusement over the past few days in this forum concerning AT&T's "protectionist" attitudes and so I thought I might throw a few words of my own into the fray. First of all, I have no control over what AT&T does in the KTS, PBX or just about any other market that we are involved in. (They usually do not bother to consult me before making a move ;-) ). Secondly, if I can believe what I read in the press, AT&T's principal competitors in the KTS or PBX markets manufacture their goods here in the USA or in Canada (with whom the US has a free trade agreement with anyway, so that's sort of like the same thing.) The largest market share that I could find for any KTS or PBX marketed by a company in the far east was that of TOSHIBA in the 11-20 station KTS with an 8% share. The largest PBX presence was that of Fijitsu with a 7% market share. Both figures were for 1988. Panasonic whom the principal flap is over was not listed separately in the literature that I have, but was presumably classified under 'other'. Yes, AT&T's key systems are expensive. I wish they were cheaper. I would love to purchase a Merlin for my house. Until I can afford it I will have to settle for a myriad of T&R sets and my Mitel dialer. When I've asked about the costliness of the Merlin systems, I was told that they are for the 'high end'. I guess that's good enough for me. I'm not quite sure why, but there is still an attitude that prevails that AT&T is 'god' and can dictate to the federal government what it must do and that everyone must obey. Hell, if that were true divestature never would have taken place. My conclusion on the Anti-dumping case was that, at face value. The Japanese aren't interested in playing fair, they're interested in marketshare and profits. It they can dump their equipment on the market for cheaper than what they sell comprable equipment on their domestic markets to gain marketshare. You better believe they would. Kevin L. Blatter AT&T - Bell Labs Disclaimer - I don't pretend to speak for AT&T, they've never asked me to and I've never offered. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Feb 90 06:31:39 PST From: VAX Debug 15-Feb-1990 0928 Subject: Re: How to Choose a Quality Cordless Phone? In Telecom Digest V10 N102, you write: >I am looking to buy a cordless phone in the price range $100 - $200. >Could some one recommend a cordless phone that you are happy with? Check out Consumer Reports. One of last year's issues has a very good article about cordless phones, and addresses many of the questions you ask. Jeff E. Nelson Digital Equipment Corporation Internet: jnelson@tle.enet.dec.com Affiliation given for identification purposes only ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Feb 90 00:51:17 PST From: Linc Madison Subject: Re: Transferring a Call With Three-Way Calling Organization: University of California, Berkeley I have a question about this. Patrick says that he can answer a call to him, flash and add a third party, place both calls in a 3-way conference, and then hang up, leaving the other two parties connected. Who pays for it? Suppose I in California call Patrick, who adds to the conversation my brother in New York. Patrick hangs up, and my brother and I chat for another two hours. Does Patrick continue to pay the cost of the call to New York, even though he has hung up? If not, do I? What if I'm calling Patrick locally and we arrange this scheme? Am I now talking for free to New York? Even if we're only talking message units for local calls, we could run into significant money if the conversation lasted for hours. In short, if the system really does work as described, I'd be **awfully** careful about whom I trusted to transfer on a call, or how I let my call be transferred. Linc Madison = rmadison@euler.berkeley.edu [Moderator's Note: The only reason I can do it is because I have Starline service rather than straight three-way calling. Under normal three-way calling, the person in the middle has to originate one or both of the calls to the second and third party. Flashing the first time, dial third party; flash again, all are joined. Flash again, third party drops off; simply hang up, and all drop off. Each party who placed a call pays for his part as long as the connection is up. Under Starline, there is a specific feature called 'call-transfer', and at least under Starline (I do not know about all the various home-centrex variations), 'call-transfer' is not limited to transfers within your premises. The person who dialed a leg of the call pays for it. You'd pay for calling me; I would pay for calling the other person. You (as the person who placed the call to me) would control when the billing stopped. PT] ------------------------------ End of TELECOM Digest V10 #103 ******************************   Received: from delta.eecs.nwu.edu by mintaka.lcs.mit.edu id aa14410; 16 Feb 90 2:44 EST Received: from mailinglists.eecs.nwu.edu by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id aa31663; 16 Feb 90 0:52 CST Received: from mailinglists.eecs.nwu.edu by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id aa09699; 15 Feb 90 23:48 CST Date: Thu, 15 Feb 90 22:45:50 CST From: TELECOM Moderator [To]: telecom@eecs.nwu.edu Subject: TELECOM Digest V10 #104 BCC: Message-ID: <9002152245.ab32354@delta.eecs.nwu.edu> TELECOM Digest Thu, 15 Feb 90 22:45:29 CST Volume 10 : Issue 104 Today's Topics: Moderator: Patrick Townson Pacific Bell Response To CPUC Rate Decision (Curtis Galloway) Why DOES AT&T Behave The Way It Does? (John Higdon) AT&T Valentine's Day Discount: Not Quite-So-Useful (Rich Kulawiec) More 800, 900 Curiosities (Linc Madison) Material About Videoconferencing Needed (Minna Schrey-Hypp{nen) Charges to Pay for 911 Service (Mike Koziol) X.25 to 802.3 Gateway (Rick Battle) Details on 201/908 Wanted (Douglas Quagliana) Is Dialcom Connected to the Internet? (Paul S. R. Chisholm) The Perennial Question (Lee Phillips) Reader Needs Old Item From Archives (smb@ulysses.att.com) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Curtis Galloway Date: Thu, 15 Feb 90 14:20:33 PST Subject: Pacific Bell Response To CPUC Rate Decision The following is the text of an insert in my Pacific Bell bill this month. Perhaps John Higdon will have some comments. --Curt ------------------------------ Lower Telephone Rates in 1990 ------------------------------ You began receiving a larger monthly credit on your January 1990 telephone bill. In recent months, the California Public Utilities Commission (CPUC) has made several decisions affecting telephone rates, and the current result is a decrease in your rates. These decisions dealt with issues such as how much it costs Pacific Bell to provide you with telephone service and how much profit the company should be allowed to earn. The rate reduction is reflected as *an increased credit* on your Pacific Bell charges. The credit amounts to a reduction of about $1.15 for the average monthly residential bill of $26. Business customers should see similar savings on their bills. Your credit appears on the "Rate Surcharge" line in the section of your bill marked "Regulated Monthly Charges and Credits." ------------------------------ Regulation of Local Telephone Companies Has Changed ------------------------------ In October, after extensive public debate, the CPUC significantly changed the way it regulates local telephone companies. The CPUC recognized that the telecommunications industry is becoming more competitive, and that the Commission's traditional approach to regulating the industry had become a complex, expensive process that needed change. o What did the commission change? The CPUC replaced its traditional "cost-of-service" approach to regulation with a new approach called "incentive regulation." The idea is to put California's two largest local phone companies -- Pacific Bell and GTE-California -- in a position similar to other businesses with the same types of incentives, risks, and rewards that competition produces. The goal is to encourage new services, greater efficiency and lower prices. The CPUC's decision is intended to balance the interests of customers and shareholders by combining incentives for utilities, safeguards for customers who have few if any choices about where to buy service, and monitoring by the Commission. The CPUC's revised regulatory process is designed to do a better job of updating prices and regulating monopoly profits than traditional regulation by encouraging efficiency, technological advance and greater use of the network. o How will prices be set? Instead of determining rates through the "rate case" process, the Commission will set rates using formulas designed to protect customers and give the companies greater incentive to operate as efficiently as possible. For example, the CPUC has divided Pacific Bell's services into three categories. The company has varying degrees of pricing flexibility for each, depending on how much competition, if any, exists for each service: 1. Monopoly services, such as local and toll calls -- Prices for these services will be set annually by the CPUC. The Commission will use a formula that adjusts prices 4.5 percent below changes in the cost of living. For example, in 1990 if the rate of inflation were 6 percent, 1991 rates could increase only 1.5 percent. However, if the 1990 rate of inflation were 4 percent, 1991 rates could decrease by .5 percent. 2. Partly competitive services, such as CENTREX features or COMMSTAR(sm) Features -- the CPUC-authorized rate will set the "cap" on these rates and Pacific Bell may lower the price for these services, but not below the cost of providing the service, as determined by the CPUC. 3. Fully competitive services, such as Voice Mail, Inside Wiring or Yellow Pages advertising -- The company may raise or lower prices for these services as it chooses. Prices for monopoly and partly competitive services may also be changed to reflect the effect of government action (such as changes in tax laws) or to more closely match rates to cost (with any increase in some rates fully offset by decreases in other rates). Such changes would occur by CPUC order, with prior notice to customers, and would neither increase nor decrease Pacific Bell's profits. o The telephone network will be improved The CPUC decision authorized improvements to our telephone network totaling an estimated $400 million over the next few years. Old equipment will be replaced so we can offer additional services, such as 976/900 Blocking, COMMSTAR(sm) and Easy Access to long distance companies, to customers who are not able to have them today. o We will share any earnings above a certain level Starting next year, we will share with our customers *half of any annual earnings* over a 13 percent benchmark rate of return set by the CPUC. If we earn over 16.5 percent, *all earnings over that figure* will be returned to our customers in the form of a credit on the bill. At the end of each year, the CPUC will calculate how much of a credit, if any, is due. For example, a credit for 1990 earnings would appear on your bill during 1991. o The CPUC will oversee our progress In 1992, the CPUC will review our progress on the changes we have described to ensure that they are working as intended. ------------------------------ Subject: Why DOES AT&T Behave The Way It Does? Reply-To: John Higdon Organization: Green Hills and Cows Date: 14 Feb 90 11:26:46 PST (Wed) From: John Higdon There is an obvious question (asked in so many words by some): why does AT&T resort to sleazy tactics when dealing with competitors? I doubt that many will argue with the statement that all in all, AT&T offers truly outstanding products. It IS still the best long distance service money can buy. Its PBXs are certainly first rate, as are its consumer products. Even the Merlin could hardly be classified as "junk". So what is the problem? Apparently, AT&T hasn't yet learned how to best utilize its competitive strengths. It is perceived by many (still) to be THE phone company. Many purchasing decisions are influenced by this perception. But the company hasn't yet learned what to charge for its hardware. It's overpriced, and not just a little, either. The Merlin lists for probably three times what it should sell for to be competitive in the small business market. Since it's made offshore, it costs no more to manufacture than any of its competitors wares. Even so, AT&T's competitors are now going to be producing product domestically at the same prices they were before. Pricing is probably AT&T's greatest weakness. If AT&T would actually "compete" and not do end runs around the market by seeking tariff relief and other non-competitive fixes, they would be unbeatable. John Higdon | P. O. Box 7648 | +1 408 723 1395 john@zygot.ati.com | San Jose, CA 95150 | M o o ! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Feb 90 23:11:00 MST From: Rich Kulawiec Subject: AT&T Valentine's Day Discount Not Quite-So-Useful For a couple of hours tonight, while I was trying to take advantage of the reduced AT&T rates, I continually reached a recording which said (paraphrased) "Due to heavy Valentine's Day traffic, your call can't be completed at this time. AT&T values your business, and invites you to try your call again later." Wonder if this was widespread enough to cause AT&T to offer a special one-time discount on, say, Easter Sunday, in order to make up for the service difficulties.......nah! Rsk ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Feb 90 02:33:35 PST From: Linc Madison Subject: More 800, 900 Curiosities I recently saw two (N00) numbers advertised on TV which caught my attention. First was a 900 number (I don't remember it, and wouldn't grace them with the free publicity if I did), which was for some sort of Gold Card, charge $50.00 on your phone bill. Sounds like one of the 540-XXXX scams in New York a while back. Isn't there some limit to what they can charge for a 900 call? (I know in California there's a limit of $2 initial charge for 976, for instance.) The second was Sports Illustrated, with the number to dial for subscriptions listed as 1-800-950-2288. Apparently the use of the 950 prefix for non-telcos is happening in 1-800 as well as in "real" NPAs. I was particularly interested in this one, since it looks rather like a number AT&T would've wanted to reserve if they ever throw in the towel and offer an 800 number for use from COCOTs that block 10288. Linc Madison = rmadison@euler.berkeley.edu ------------------------------ From: msc@kolvi.hut.fi (Minna Schrey-Hypp{nen) Subject: Material About Videoconferencing Needed Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland Date: Thu, 15 Feb 90 12:31:36 GMT Hello! I am doing my graduation work at the Helsinki University of Technology, Finland, and my subject is Videoconference as a telecommunication service. But I have one little problem: it is very difficult to find any material about this subject. I have found some articles, but not many. Now I am asking for help. I would like to get some information about books and articles which have been written and also conferences which have been held about videoconferencing. I am especially interested in videoconferencing in business sector and its influences on business and people. I am also interested in the educational use of videoconference. If you know any studies, research works, articles or books about this area, I would appreciate very much, if you would give me some pointers to this material and a possible source of obtaining it. It would greatly help me to finish my work. Thank You, Minna Schrey-Hypp{nen msc@kolvi.hut.fi Helsinki University of Technology ! Otakaari 5A Laboratory of Telecommunication Switching and ! SF-02150 ESPOO Information Technology ! Finland, Europe ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Feb 90 04:44:12 EST From: Mike Koziol Subject: Charges to Pay for 911 Service Here in Rochester NY (Monroe County) the county legislature approved a few months ago a $.35/line/month (up to four lines) charge to be added to our phone bills sometime in 1990. The money will be used to replace their aging (mid 70's) PDP1174 computer system. The system got overworked last August and was down for an 8 day period. The telecommunicators had to write out a card, give it to a "runner" who would take it to the dispatcher. If they had a call involving Police, Fire and EMS the runner would have to make a couple of stops to tell the appropriate dispatchers. Probably not a fair comparison but a MacIntosh IIcx computer is able to query the counties geofile and draw a full map on the screen about 2 seconds before the current 911 system can complete the query. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Feb 90 10:05:29 EST From: Rick Subject: X.25 to 802.3 Gateway If you have a local area network, 802.3 variety, and you want to gateway into a packet switch network, X.25, are there any parameter setting changes that need to be made on the X.25 side to make the connection work? Thanks much, Rick Battle University of Maryland ------------------------------ From: Douglas Quagliana Date: Thu Feb 15 11:18:47 1990 Subject: Details on 201/908 Wanted Does anyone know how I can find out if a current 201 phone number will remain in 201 or if it will be switched to 908? Does anyone have a listing by prefixes or zip code of the effected numbers? Any details on the actual switch over date?? | Doug Quagliana KA2UPW | Postal: POB 1882 | Like a Micro Sat... | | DOMAIN : QUAGS@SBU.EDU | Saint Bonaventure |<* This Space For Rent! *>| | Compu$erve: 70721,3374 | New York 14778 | | ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Feb 90 11:10 EST From: psrc@pegasus.att.com Subject: Is Dialcom Connected to the Internet? Patrick, do you know off-hand if Dialcom is connected to the Internet? (You can send your answer to me or two the list if you know it; if you don't know, could you please forward my question to the list?) Paul S. R. Chisholm, AT&T Bell Laboratories att!pegasus!psrc, psrc@pegasus.att.com, AT&T Mail !psrchisholm I'm not speaking for the company, I'm just speaking my mind. [Moderator's Note: Readers, any comments? I don't know the answer. PT] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Feb 90 11:43:53 EST From: Lee Phillips Subject: The Perennial Question Is there a number I can dial to get a ringback, to check the ringers on my phones? Or do I need to call my buddy and ask him to call me back? [Moderator's Note: Lee Phillips did not supply a title for the subject here, so I made one up. :) The perennial answer: No one single ringback code applies everywhere. This is strictly by local convention. I am sure there is one on your exchange, but only some local telco employee could tell you what it was. Or, some other person in town with telecom knowledge, perhaps. Someone ought to petition the Judge to force all telcos to adhere to a common ringback number. Tell 'em it sure would make it easier for the Moderator. :) PT] ------------------------------ From: smb@ulysses.att.com Subject: Reader Needs Old Item From Archives Date: Thu, 15 Feb 90 21:34:53 EST Where is an ftp-able archive stored? I'm looking for one particular article -- one that gave a circuit that would have a light latch on if the phone had rung, and reset when the handset was lifted. [Moderator's Note: I remember the articles (and a schematic someone sent in), but I don't remember which issues it was in. Would someone please send a copy to smb from their files? Thanks. PT] ------------------------------ End of TELECOM Digest V10 #104 ******************************   Received: from delta.eecs.nwu.edu by mintaka.lcs.mit.edu id aa21873; 16 Feb 90 6:38 EST Received: from mailinglists.eecs.nwu.edu by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id aa06753; 16 Feb 90 4:57 CST Received: from mailinglists.eecs.nwu.edu by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id aa14588; 16 Feb 90 3:53 CST Date: Fri, 16 Feb 90 3:13:17 CST From: TELECOM Moderator [To]: telecom@eecs.nwu.edu Subject: TELECOM Digest V10 #105 BCC: Message-ID: <9002160313.ab16916@delta.eecs.nwu.edu> TELECOM Digest Fri, 16 Feb 90 03:12:50 CST Volume 10 : Issue 105 Today's Topics: Moderator: Patrick Townson Centrex: Brickbats & Bouquets (Jim Breen) Sprint Also Playing "Switcheroo" (was Re: MCI Playing) (Yaakov Kayman) Re: MCI Playing "Switcheroo" (Mike Riddle) 602 Area Code (AZ) News (Guy Finney) Re: Dallas Area Code Split (Linc Madison) Re: Caller ID (NOT Another Flame!) (Roy M. Silvernail) Re: Remote Broadcast Lines (Bill Nickless) Re: A Puzzle (Plastic Card "Negative Files") (Paul S. R. Chisholm) Re: Calling Card Numbers (John Higdon) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jwb@monu6.cc.monash.oz (Jim Breen) Subject: Centrex: Brickbats & Bouquets Organization: Chisholm Institute of Technology, Melb., Australia Date: Wed, 14 Feb 90 21:51:37 GMT In article <3560@accuvax.nwu.edu>, john@zygot.ati.com (John Higdon) blasts the Centrex alternative to P(A)BXs: > [......] The fact is Centrex is rarely a good idea for anyone. And Patrick, our beloved Moderator, replied: > [Moderator's Note: Unlike Mr. Higdon, I *love* Centrex. Pure and > simple. Following that, many other readers replied with a lot of pro and anti Centrex arguments and anecdotes. Readers may be interested to know that there is virtually *no* Centrex in Australia. Telecom Australia, even in the bad old days when it was rather like AT&T (Pre-Carterphone), never attempted to offer it as a service. An interesting point is that the community of telecommunications users in Australia, who are generally fairly well aware of what happens in the US, never asked for a Centrex service. In fact the more perceptive observers seem to think that Centrex in the US is only being kept alive by the post-divestiture rules which (I believe) restrain local telephone companies from selling PABXs. Any comments on that view? Well all this might be about to change. Industry scuttlebut is that Telecom Australia, ever eager for more markets in the cold hard new world, is about to go live with a Centrex offering. Some observers opine that unless it is very attractive financially, i.e. much less than the PABX equivalent, it will be a disaster. Telecom only just lost its PABX maintenance monopoly, and has also lost its Keysystem CPE monopoly. It has a small share of the PABX market with the Fujitsu 9600 which it sells in the face of the market leaders NEC's 2400 and Ericsson's MD110. Is Centrex just a North American phenomenon, or is a regular offering by PTTs worldwide? _______ Jim Breen (jwb@monu6.cc.monash.oz) Dept of Robotics & /o\----\\ \O Digital Technology. Chisholm Inst. of Technology /RDT\ /|\ \/| -:O____/ PO Box 197 Caulfield East VIC 3145 Australia O-----O _/_\ /\ /\ (ph) +61 3 573 2552 (fax) +61 3 573 2748 ------------------------------ Date: Thursday, 15 Feb 1990 12:22:28 EST From: Yaakov Kayman Subject: Sprint Also Playing "Switcheroo" (was Re: MCI Playing) Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center In article <3559@accuvax.nwu.edu>, c186aj@cory.berkeley.edu (Steve Forrette) says: >It seems like several telecom readers have had bad experiences with >MCI telling the BOC to switch their equal access default carrier. It >would seem to me that unless the customer requested the change, that >the customer is using MCI (or whatever it got changed to) without his >or her knowledge. This being the case, can MCI enforce payment. >1) The customer did not know that they were using MCI. >2) By billing the customer for the calls, MCI is in effect generating >business through an illegal act (I assume that telling the BOC that >the customer has requested a change when this is not the case is >illegal). Isn't it a general principle of law that you can't enforce >payment on a debt resulting from an illegal act? Sprint has done this to me, not only without my knowledge, but against my explicit instructions that AT&T be my LD carrier of choice. I had to call both AT&T and NY Telephone to cancel the Sprint account. What sleazeballs!! I wouldn't use Sprint now on a bet!! :-(- I would like to know (via e-mail, preferably) what the "can MCI collect?" outcome is. Yaakov Kayman (212) 903-3666 City University of New York BITNET: YZKCU@CUNYVM "Lucky is the shepherd, and lucky his flock Internet: YZKCU@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU about whom the wolves complain" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Feb 90 04:19:30 EST From: Mike Riddle Subject: Re: MCI Playing "Switcheroo" In a recent article, John Higdon wrote that in the future we might have to have everything in writing. I'm not a lawyer, but as I understand it, someone alleging a verbal contract must be able to prove it. That might be difficult. The concept of "unjust enrichment," however, might still be a problem. I understand that most states have a "Statute of Frauds" that requires some evidence of certain contracts be in writing to avoid these kinds of problems. Covered contracts might include real estate, duration > one year, or value > specified amount. While not a complete answer, the Statute of Frauds might at least help protect for excessive losses. --- Through FidoNet gateway node 1:16/390 Mike.Riddle@p6.f666.n285.z1.fidonet.org ------------------------------ From: gaf Subject: 602 Area Code (AZ) News Date: 15 Feb 90 16:31 Reply-To: Organization: UUCS inc., Phoenix Az We've been told this week that 602 is running out of prefixes pretty quickly, what with the boom in cellular, paging, etc. US West's request for a new area code has been denied, so soon we'll get to dial 1-602-xxx-xxxx for all in-state toll calls where we had been dialing 1-xxx-xxxx before. Sigh. Guy Finney It's that feeling of deja-vu UUCS inc. Phoenix, Az all over again. ncar!noao!asuvax!hrc!uucs1!gaf sun!sunburn!gtx!uucs1!gaf ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Feb 90 23:52:40 PST From: Linc Madison Subject: Re: Dallas Area Code Split Organization: University of California, Berkeley In article <3795@accuvax.nwu.edu> Doug Davis writes: X-Telecom-Digest: Volume 10, Issue 96, message 7 of 10 >[regarding 214/903 split in Dallas area] >Given SWB's description 903 Could be considered everything >east of Fort Worth, That isn't Dallas county. Matter of course except >where GTE is concerned everything outside of Dallas county will become >903. Now the last I heard was that GTE and SWB were arguing about the >border location in Denton County (GTE Territory). I'm a bit puzzled as to how it could possibly be an issue: all of Denton County except a very small bit of the southeast corner is in Area Code 817. The only part that is in 214 is all local to Dallas, and should therefore all be remaining in 214, if I recall correctly. Or is this something like Lewisville? (Is it Denton Co.?) I lived in Dallas 1971 - 1981. Linc Madison (rmadison@euler.berkeley.edu) ------------------------------ From: "Roy M. Silvernail" Subject: Re: Caller ID (NOT Another Flame!) Date: 15 Feb 90 00:48:19 GMT Organization: Computer Connection, Anchorage Alaska In article <3841@accuvax.nwu.edu>, ames!ames!claris!portal!cup.portal.com! fleming@uunet.uu.net writes: > Why aren't the BOCs rushing to offer this as a solution? > Simple... Judge Greene won't let them. Running a phone number through > a database and flashing an associated ASCII string onto your screen > qualifies as an information-processing service, and that's a no-no. I haven't studied the break-up too closely, but it would seem this is an ideal opportunity for a symbiotic service. Couldn't the private sector produce a company to service this information-processing? And wouldn't that be seperate from the BOC itself? > Sure, there are technical problems -- you'd have to have databases > that lots of people can access quickly enough not to delay call setup -- > but the technical problems will never be solved if there's not a > market for the solution. Conversely, if the BOCs were to start > developing the technical means to support Calling Party ID, solutions > could be available in short order. I'll just bet some commercial concern steps in. Probably with the spread of ISDN, which has the bandwidth and embedded information to ease the task, such services will become as attractive a third-party option as feature-laden third-party equipment is today. As with any enhanced service, I'm sure there will be the equivalent of the AOS, as well. Sharks are everywhere in the Matrix. (oops... cyberpunk pervades me at times ;-) We already know, though, that there is money to be made brokering information, so you can be sure _someone_ will market this. > Conclusions are left as an exercise for the student. Uh, oh... Err.... How much of my grade is this, anyway? :-) Roy M. Silvernail | UUCP: uunet!comcon!roy | "Every race must arrive at this #include ;#define opinions MINE | point in its history" SnailMail: P.O. Box 210856, Anchorage, | ........Mr. Slippery Alaska, 99521-0856, U.S.A., Earth, etc. | ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Feb 90 16:28:18 CST From: Bill Nickless Subject: Re: Remote Broadcast Lines Reply-To: Bill Nickless In article <3738@accuvax.nwu.edu> Robert Gutierrez writes: > It's unfortunate that you can't use cellular phones for 'Remote Broadcast' > without an STA (Special Temp. Authority). I listen to WGN here in Chicago, and they seem to do this regularly. (Patrick: On the "Al and/or Ed show.") Last December a listener in an automobile called the show and asked for directions to a restaurant in downtown Chicago. The hosts of the talk show determined that the most efficient route to the restraunt led right past the studios of the station. So one of the hosts grabbed the traffic reporter's mobile cellular phone and waited for the listener to pick him up. It made for a very entertaining evening, as the talk show host went in to the restaurant, on the air, and met the man's wife (who was waiting for him in the restaurant.) Then the host had to thumb a ride back to the studios. Nobody would pick him up, and it was *cold* outside! Quite a memorable segment from this show! Is this the type of situation where an STA would be needed? .signature under construction detour mail to nickless@flash.ras.anl.gov ------------------------------ From: "Paul S. R. Chisholm" Subject: Re: A Puzzle (Plastic Card "Negative Files") Date: 16 Feb 90 05:34:42 GMT Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories < Krasny Oktyabr: the hunt is on, March 2, 1990 > In article <3787@accuvax.nwu.edu>, jst@ccnext.ucsf.edu (Joe Stong) writes: > I'm sending this to telecom, because I suspect this sort of data keeping > is liable to be used by the phone companies... And since I work for what some people consider to be "the phone company", maybe it's worth mentioning that what I'm about to describe reflects my experience from when I was a developer for AT&T Transaction Services, an enhanced network service for plastic card transactions. I know virtually nothing about the AT&T Calling Card, and the discussion below doesn't necessarily reflect anything AT&T does with its own cards. (In other words, the relevance to telecom is growing faint!-) > I was asked recently how much disk space would be needed to keep > VISA's bad card list: I was told it had 400 million numbers. It is my > understanding that VISA numbers have 12 digits, and 4 check digits. > (Is this right?), thus 10^12 or a trillion numbers. There's only one check digit (the last one). All VISA cards begin with the digit 4, so you only need to store fourteen digits. Since 2^48 == 281,474,976,710,656, which is greater than 10^14, you can just barely squeeze a VISA card into six bytes. > Now, a bitmap of a trillion numbers would take 125 GigaBytes. Since > the bad numbers are sparse (about 1 in 2500), on the average . . . . . . then you should probably use a hash table. Since the "negative card file" (the name banks and merchants use) "only" contains about 10^12 (~== 2^40, since 10^3 ~== 2^10, my favorite rule of thumb) entries, a binary search would take forty comparisons on the average; too many. (A bitmap of 10^14 numbers would take 12500 gigabytes!) Paul S. R. Chisholm, AT&T Bell Laboratories att!pegasus!psrc, psrc@pegasus.att.com, AT&T Mail !psrchisholm I'm not speaking for the company, I'm just speaking my mind. ------------------------------ Reply-To: John Higdon Subject: Re: Calling Card Numbers Date: 15 Feb 90 22:17:22 PST (Thu) From: John Higdon "Joel B. Levin" writes: > Where the first seven digits were my real phone number (there might > have been a 617 (NPA) in front also, but my memory is hazy). Every > year I got a new card, identical to the old one except for the > trailing letter. I assumed the 001 was in case of conciding numbers > (that's why I think the NPA was left out) or for sub-accounts. On a > visit to the Boston telco I saw how it worked. (This was in the early > '70s.) There was one other variable: whether or not a card had actually been issued on that number. Many years ago, in a galaxy far, far away, coming up with a card number was child's play. You looked in the yellow pages, found a mean old nasty business like "Big Corporation, Inc.", copied their phone number out of the book and added (in the case of this area) "293". You then had a credit card number -- say 723-5700-293-R. The letter was derived from the current year's formula. The only thing you didn't know was whether the card actually existed. This was important if you wanted to bury LD charges on someone's otherwise huge bill -- if the card didn't exist, lots of flags would go up and you would be busted for sure when they tried to bill for the numbers you called. The way people got around that was simple. You used the "talking computer". Using a blue box, you entered "KP+213+000+ST". There would be a sup wink. You then entered a code plus the ten digits of the credit card in question. There would be one of two responses: "OK" (in which case you hit the jackpot) or "NEGATIVE--NEGATIVE" and the card number would be read back to you (in which case you looked for another phone number to scam.) People all thought the "talking computer" was the greatest scam tool of all time, but now it's handed to you on a silver platter. Anyone not know how you would verify a questionable card number these days? John Higdon | P. O. Box 7648 | +1 408 723 1395 john@bovine.ati.com | San Jose, CA 95150 | M o o ! [Moderator's Note: Anyone wishing to learn how to (ahem!) 'verify' questionable card numbers -- as if there were any reason to do so unless you were a telco accepting them for services rendered -- can consult with JH in other media. No further discussion here, please. I have no desire to see eecs.nwu.edu wind up like the late Jolnet, which it is doubtful will be back on line anytime soon. PT] ------------------------------ End of TELECOM Digest V10 #105 ******************************   Received: from delta.eecs.nwu.edu by mintaka.lcs.mit.edu id aa05771; 17 Feb 90 0:05 EST Received: from mailinglists.eecs.nwu.edu by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id aa16838; 16 Feb 90 22:08 CST Received: from mailinglists.eecs.nwu.edu by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id aa18249; 16 Feb 90 21:00 CST Date: Fri, 16 Feb 90 20:45:13 CST From: TELECOM Moderator [To]: telecom@eecs.nwu.edu Subject: TELECOM Digest V10 #106 BCC: Message-ID: <9002162045.ab16629@delta.eecs.nwu.edu> TELECOM Digest Fri, 16 Feb 90 20:45:00 CST Volume 10 : Issue 106 Today's Topics: Moderator: Patrick Townson Re: Sprint Makes An Offer You Can't Refuse! (60 Minutes Free) (Fred Linton) Re: Sprint Makes An Offer You Can't Refuse! (60 Minutes Free) (D. Kurtiak) Re: Sprint Makes An Offer You Can't Refuse! (60 Minutes Free) (Albert) Re: Sprint Makes An Offer You Can't Refuse! (60 Minutes Free) (Mike Fetzer) Sprint Plus Rebate (Ken Jongsma) Re: Sprint Also Playing "Switcheroo" (was Re: MCI Playing) (Ray Spalding) Re: Pacific Bell Response To CPUC Rate Decision (John Higdon) Re: Atlanta Airport and AOS Sleeze (John Wheeler) Re: More 800, 900 Curiosities (John R. Levine) Re: More 800, 900 Curiosities (Bill Huttig) Re: More 800, 900 Curiosities (Miguel Cruz) Re: Is Dialcom Connected to the Internet? (John Cowan) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 16-FEB-1990 04:25:17.44 From: "Fred E.J. Linton" Subject: Re: Sprint Makes An Offer You Can't Refuse! (60 Minutes Free) In <3840@accuvax.nwu.edu> by Schwartz.osbunorth@xerox.com, the Moderator Notes: > Yes, but are they then sneaking you over to Sprint > as default carrier in the process? I'd be surprised if they were not! I signed up with Sprint for a "FON"-card some years back, shortly after I had selected MCI for my dial-1 carrier. At that time Sprint had a campaign on offering 30 minutes free calling, with no WD-40 tie-in. Not only did they _not_ sneak me over to Sprint as default carrier, they actually sent me a card on which the 14 digits (grouped aaa bbb cccc dddd) bear no resemblance to my or any other phone number (aaa is not a currently conceivable area code, bbb is not a currently conceivable exchange!). I've used the card (or tried to) only when traveling, from payphones. Half the time I've been successful -- the other half, the Sprint server machine at 1-800-877-8000 either doesn't answer, or is busy, or sets me up with a connection that provides no voice contact between me and the party I'm calling (so yes, connections so quiet I can hear a pin drop -- if I drop it). To compensate, Sprint has always (so far) been very good about crediting out charges for such unusable connections -- but MCI and ATT seem much more reliable about making connections in the first place, in my experience. -- Fred Fred E.J. Linton Wesleyan U. Math. Dept. 649 Sci. Tower Middletown, CT 06457 ARPA/Internet: FLINTON@eagle.Wesleyan.EDU Bitnet: FLINTON@WESLEYAN[.bitnet] on ATT-Mail: !fejlinton ( ...!attmail!fejlinton ) Tel.: + 1 203 776 2210 (home) OR + 1 203 347 9411 x2249 (work) ...and now: MCI-Mail -- 414-2427 (4142427@mcimail.com or TLX 6504142427MCI UW) ------------------------------ From: dmk@cup.portal.com Subject: Re: Sprint Makes An Offer You Can't Refuse! (60 Minutes Free) Date: Fri, 16-Feb-90 09:13:04 PST From: Schwartz.osbunorth@xerox.com >Call WD-40's toll-free number, answer a simple quiz (see below), and >"win" a U.S. Sprint FON card, with 60 minutes of long-distance calling >pre-credited. >This sounds like 5 minutes well-spent. >Has anyone else done this? Any known snags involved? This offer sounded too good to resist without further inquiry.... I called and answered the really challenging questions, all correctly I might add. :-) Upon transfer to US Sprint, and listening to muzak for about 5 minutes, a rep answered and congratulated me for winning 60 minutes of FONcard usage. I answered the standard name, address and phone number questions and then proceeded with a few questions of my own. The 60 minutes of use will be credited to your FONcard account at the >night/weekend< rate. The credits are applied EXCLUSIVELY to the transport charge portion of the call and *NOT* to the $.75 surcharge for each call made. So, you still have to pay $.75 for each call made no matter what credit you have just won. Maybe I misunderstood what the rep actually meant, but she did explain it to be to this effect. Guess I'll have to wait 2-4 weeks for the card and read its terms before I use it. >[Moderator's Note: Yes, but are they then sneaking you over to Sprint >as default carrier in the process? I'd be surprised if they were not! >Find out first -- not next month when telco's bill announces your new >default carrier! If you have to pay $5 to change it back, or spend an >hour on the phone arguing with Sprint, it isn't worth it. PT] I made sure I asked THIS before I answered any of the standard questions, and the response was "No sir, this is only for a FONcard account". Okay, I buy that.... BUT, after reading all the horror stories in this forum, I'm not taking any chances. A quick call to NJ Bell and tagging my account took care of that. /=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-\ | David M. Kurtiak Standard disclaimers apply.... | | K1X Computer Solutions Network email: dmk@cup.portal.com | | P.O. Box # 74 Network phone: (201/908)457-7693 | | Hampton, NJ 08827-0074 ATTmail: !dkurtiak | \-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Feb 90 15:13:24 EST From: albert@harvard.harvard.edu Subject: Re: Sprint Makes An Offer You Can't Refuse! (60 Minutes Free) Organization: Aiken Computation Lab Harvard, Cambridge, MA From article <3840@accuvax.nwu.edu>, by Schwartz.osbunorth@xerox.com: > I called the 800 number and "managed" to answer the questions > correctly. (Question #1: Will WD-40 remove adhesives from surfaces? > Question #2: Will WD-40 remove tar from your car? End-of-quiz!) > Has anyone else done this? Any known snags involved? I just called them, and, thanks to your help, "managed" to get both questions *wrong*. (I answered no to both questions). Guess what? I still won! Unfortunately, Sprint isn't interested in me since I already have a FONcard. ------------------------------ From: rider@pnet12.cts.com (Michael Fetzer) Subject: Re: Sprint Makes An Offer You Can't Refuse! (60 Minutes Free) Date: 14 Feb 90 19:56:41 GMT Organization: People-Net [pnet12], Del Mar, CA I just called the number. It's definitely a calling card they send, i.e., they do not ask you to change your default carrier to SPRINT. The only hook I could see is the amount of info they ask for: name, address, soc. sec. no., do I own/rent?, how long?, where do I work?, how long? I'm not sure why this is worth 60 minutes of free time to them, unless it's 60 minutes local. :-) UUCP: uunet!serene!pnet12!rider or ucsd!mfetzer ARPA: crash!pnet12!rider@nosc.mil INET: rider@pnet12.cts.com or mfetzer@ucsd.edu BITNET: fetzerm@sdsc [Moderator's Note: They didn't ask me all those questions. They asked only for name, address, phone number. I gave them my PO Box, and my voicemail phone number. By the way, you don't even have to spend the time sitting through those recorded test questions. When it answers, just press '1', wait one second, press '1' again, then after another second press '1' a third time. They'll congratulate you, and transfer your call. PT] ------------------------------ From: ken@cup.portal.com Subject: Sprint Plus Rebate Date: Thu, 15-Feb-90 23:56:24 PST For those of us that signed up for Sprint Plus last year, it will pay to examine your January bill very closely. Sprint Plus is the deal where if you agree to spend at least $8 a month on long distance, Sprint waives the evening rate and goes right to the night rate after 5PM. Anyway, last fall Sprint was running a promotion that promised a free month of long distance if you signed up. Well, not exactly. What you really were to get was a credit on your January bill for your December calls, up to a limit of $25. My bill rolled around and no credit. A polite 10 minute call to Sprint got me an apology and a promise of the $25 credit on my next bill. We shall see... Ken Jongsma ken@cup.portal.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Spalding Subject: Re: Sprint Also Playing "Switcheroo" (was Re: MCI Playing) Date: 16 Feb 90 15:26:13 GMT Reply-To: Ray Spalding Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology In article <3961@accuvax.nwu.edu> YZKCU@cunyvm.bitnet (Yaakov Kayman) writes: >In article <3559@accuvax.nwu.edu>, c186aj@cory.berkeley.edu (Steve Forrette) >says: >>It seems like several telecom readers have had bad experiences with >>MCI telling the BOC to switch their equal access default carrier. [...] Lest anyone be spared, I once had my default LD carrier switched without my knowledge or approval from Allnet to AT&T. (I was surprised on my next bill, more psychologically than financially). This was two or three years ago. I called the local business office (Southern Bell) and complained, and was promptly switched back; but they certainly made no offer to refund any difference in charges. (It seems to me that someone should in these cases). By the way, a year or so later I requested and received the same change of LD carriers myself. I received a mailing from AT&T offering to switch me and to refund any BOC charges; I agreed, and signed, and the change was made; but I don't remember ever receiving the $5 "change of LD carrier charge" on my bill. Allnet had made significant rate and billing changes that adversely affected me. Unlike many Telecom readers, I would guess, I'm not a big LD user. The situation reminds me of that with the Postal Service, i.e., upstart companies taking the profitable "cream off the top". (Of course, the paper-mail upstarts are now suffering from competition from fax, to the advanatge of the LD carriers). Yet, I must admit I enjoy lower rates from AT&T as a result of the competition. Ray Spalding, Office of Computing Services Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332-0275 uucp: ...!{allegra,amd,hplabs,ut-ngp}!gatech!prism!cc100aa Internet: cc100aa@prism.gatech.edu ------------------------------ Reply-To: John Higdon Subject: Re: Pacific Bell Response To CPUC Rate Decision Date: 16 Feb 90 01:04:49 PST (Fri) From: John Higdon Curtis Galloway quotes from Pac*Bell Bill Insert: [in addition to the usual stroking--this:] > o We will share any earnings above a certain level > Starting next year, we will share with our customers *half of any > annual earnings* over a 13 percent benchmark rate of return set by > the CPUC. If we earn over 16.5 percent, *all earnings over that > figure* will be returned to our customers in the form of a credit > on the bill. And if you *ever* see Pac*Bell admitting that it earned 16.5, I'll be watching for the second coming. Before that would happen, they would hose down the insides of 100 COs with an acid solution, and buy new equipment from Pacific Telesis at inflated prices. They would be totally stupid to let Pac*Bell earn that much and have to give it all away to the suckers, oops, I mean ratepayers. If you don't think their accounting staff can keep that annual earnings figure in check, then I have a bridge that stretches from Fort Mason to the Marin headlands that you might be interested in... John Higdon | P. O. Box 7648 | +1 408 723 1395 john@bovine.ati.com | San Jose, CA 95150 | M o o ! ------------------------------ From: John Wheeler Subject: Re: Atlanta Airport and AOS Sleeze Date: 16 Feb 90 13:29:01 GMT Reply-To: John Wheeler Organization: Turner Entertainment Networks Library; Atlanta >This fine service is brought to you via the fine services of the >National Telephone Services AOS. I wrote the software that runs their >switch. >PS: NEVER but NEVER make a chargeable call from the Atlanta Airport. Is that really AT&T you get after 10288+0 or not? I made a credit card call there recently, and the operator said "I certainly AM an AT&T operator and proud of it!" They even APOLOGIZE for not being able to read your dialed number. They verbally ask for both your calling card number AND THE NUMBER YOU ARE CALLING even though you've already entered them. I better check this bill carefully... /* John Wheeler - Unix/C Systems Designer/Programmer/Administrator/etc... * * Turner Entertainment Networks * Superstation TBS * TNT * Turner Production * * ...!gatech!nanovx!techwood!johnw (404) TBS-1421 * * "the opinions expressed in this program are not necessarily those of TBS" */ ------------------------------ Subject: Re: More 800, 900 Curiosities Organization: Segue Software, Cambridge MA Date: 16 Feb 90 10:24:38 EST (Fri) From: "John R. Levine" In article <3950@accuvax.nwu.edu> you write: >Apparently the use of the 950 prefix for non-telcos is happening in 1-800 >as well as in "real" NPAs. There's nothing special about 800-950. Under the current scheme where 800 numbers are allocated to carriers by prefix, 800-950 belongs to MCI. They use 800-950-1022 as a backup calling card access number for places where plain 950-1022 doesn't work. There are lots of other 800-950 numbers, and they're no more than regular MCI 800 numbers. Regards, John Levine, johnl@esegue.segue.boston.ma.us, {spdcc|ima|lotus}!esegue!johnl ------------------------------ From: Bill Huttig Subject: Re: More 800, 900 Curiosities Date: 16 Feb 90 16:43:23 GMT Reply-To: Bill Huttig Organization: Florida Institute of Technology, ACS, Melbourne, FL The 1-800-950 prefix belongs to MCI and they have been using for a long time for their customers. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Feb 90 13:02:26 EST From: Miguel_Cruz@ub.cc.umich.edu Subject: Re: More 800, 900 Curiosities Linc Madison wrote about a Sports Illustrated number 1-800-950-xxxx... Actually, 800-950 is just one of MCI's many 800 exchanges, nothing special. I'm not exactly sure how MCI got all the good ones (950, 222, 444, etc.), but they, and not AT&T, get to decide what goes where on 800-950. ------------------------------ From: John Cowan Subject: Re: Is Dialcom Connected to the Internet? Reply-To: John Cowan Organization: ESCC, New York City Date: Fri, 16 Feb 90 18:15:45 GMT In article <3956@accuvax.nwu.edu> psrc@pegasus.att.com asks the above question. >[Moderator's Note: Readers, any comments? I don't know the answer. PT] Dialcom is connected through the Commercial Mail Relay Service, a.k.a. Intermail. Contact ISI for information. The CMRS can only be used for authorized Internet/DoD business. ------------------------------ End of TELECOM Digest V10 #106 ******************************   Received: from delta.eecs.nwu.edu by mintaka.lcs.mit.edu id aa07974; 17 Feb 90 1:04 EST Received: from mailinglists.eecs.nwu.edu by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id aa11486; 16 Feb 90 23:12 CST Received: from mailinglists.eecs.nwu.edu by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id ab16838; 16 Feb 90 22:08 CST Date: Fri, 16 Feb 90 21:30:54 CST From: TELECOM Moderator [To]: telecom@eecs.nwu.edu Subject: TELECOM Digest V10 #107 BCC: Message-ID: <9002162130.ab15215@delta.eecs.nwu.edu> TELECOM Digest Fri, 16 Feb 90 21:30:23 CST Volume 10 : Issue 107 Today's Topics: Moderator: Patrick Townson Re: Why DOES AT&T Behave The Way It Does? (Roy Smith) Re: AT&T System 25 Experience Sought (Vance Shipley) Re: Why DOES AT&T Behave The Way It Does? (Steve Chu) Re: AT&T Behind Blocking of Japanese Business Phone Systems? (John Higdon) Answering Machine Advice Needed (A. E. Mossberg) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: roy@phri.nyu.edu (Roy Smith) Subject: Re: Why DOES AT&T Behave The Way It Does? Organization: Public Health Research Institute, New York City Date: Fri, 16 Feb 90 16:36:38 GMT In article <3948@accuvax.nwu.edu> John Higdon writes: > AT&T hasn't yet learned how to best utilize its competitive strengths > [...] the company hasn't yet learned what to charge for its hardware. It would also appear that they havn't yet figured out that they are dealing with customers other than captive local Bell telcos. Let me tell you a longish story about AT&T marketing. We have a System 25 at work. We also run Farallon PhoneNet over spare pairs of the existing phone wiring. With the old wiring, 2-pair runs terminating in RJ-11's, it was easy. The new wiring is 4-pairs terminating in 103A's which have a spare pair, but not on the pins PhoneNet hardware expects (i.e. 1/4 on an RJ-11, 2/5 on a 6-pin, or 3/6 on an 8-pin jack). No problem, just get an adaptor, right? I walk over the my local AT&T phone store, after stopping in at the Radio Shack just to see (hey, I have to walk past it on the way to the AT&T store, and every once in a while they just do surprise you and have what you need, no matter how far-out what you need is). Not surprisingly, the AT&T store doesn't have it on display so I ask the counter guy (see the current rec.autos.tech discussion about counter guys; it all applies here) if he has what I need. He sort of freaks out when I mention System 25, but calms down when I assure him that what I need might also be used on a Merlin system (Merlins seem to be consumer items, and Sys25s small business items, and never the twain shall meet). He calls over his Merlin expert. The best he can do is dial a number on his speaker phone and let me talk to the System 25 tech support center. It's a horrible connection (I assume an AT&T store uses AT&T as their long distance carrier, but who knows?) made worse by the shitty speakerphone, and I can barely understand the other person. Eventually we get cut off. The guy agrees to just give me the 800 number so I can call from my own office (I sort of got the impression he wasn't really supposed to do that). OK, I go back and call AT&T and ask if they have the kind of adaptor I need. A lot of waiting on hold, and eventually the nice lady come back and says she thinks she has what I need, but isn't sure I can buy it! We go back and forth a bit making sure it's what I need, and eventually I just ask for their Premises Distribution System catalog so I can see for myself what's what. I'm a bit surprised when they charge me 3 or 4 bucks for it, but OK, I give them my VISA number (after semi-jokingly asking if they could just put it on my AT&T calling card). It comes. Sure enough, exactly the adaptor I need is in there, a 400H T-adapter. You plug it into a 103A jack and it pulls pins 1-6 out to 1-6 on another 8-position jack (exactly what a Merlinesque set needs) and pulls 7/8 out to 2/5 on a 6-position jack, exactly what PhoneNet needs. I'm a bit suspicious that they list a 12-week delivery time, it's probably a rare item, perhaps semi-custom. But I'm in no particular rush, so that's fine. Now the scenes from Kafka start. I go to call the catalog folks to find out prices (I hate when there are no prices in catalogs). But who do I call? There is not a single phone number in the catalog, and I looked cover to cover. Who ever heard of a catalog without a "call this number to order" section? So I let my fingers do the walking and just call the local AT&T business office. They've never even heard of the catalog I have and grill me about where I got it from, as if it was something I wasn't supposed to have. They have heard of comcodes (which seem to be AT&T's version of stock numbers) but don't deal with them. Perhaps if I could give them the names of the items I want? OK, they know about the simple stuff like 103A blocks, but havn't heard of the 400H adaptors. Eventually they give me another 800 number. They haven't heard of the catalog either, but do know about comcodes and give me pricing on most of the items I want, but when I give them the comcode for the 400H, they say it's an invalid comcode. The refer me to the National Parts Center (this sounds promising). This time, it at least comes up as a valid comcode, but the part doesn't exist, or some such. They refer me to yet another 800 number, for the Main Business Office, which turns out to be the semi-secret 800 number the counter guy gave me in the first place. OK, back to them. I explain what I want briefly to whoever answers the phone, who transfers me to somebody who answers, "Oh shit!" Gotta teach these phone types what "open mike" means! Turns out to be somebody named Mr. Adams with whom I talk for 5 or 10 minutes about my travails. He seems very concerned that I don't know my AT&T account number, and can't do a thing for me until he find my records, first an unsucessful search on our main phone number (perhaps they sort by outgoing trunk number, which I don't know offhand?) then a longer and sucessful search by company name. He says he needs a bit of time to work on this, asks for *at least* 24 hours, and assures me he'll call me back. He gives me a non-800 (local) number at which I can reach him directly. I call back that afternoon, he's not available. I call back the next day, nobody answers at the local number. The next day, the same thing, no answer. I call the 800 number and ask for him by name. He's busy, but the person offers to take a message. I ask for a supervisor. All the supervisors are in a meeting. I leave a somewhat detailed message and ask that a supervisor call me back, which she does in a few minutes (must have been a short meeting). Says Mr. Adams has no recollection of ever having spoken to me, although he does has a slip of paper on his desk with my name on it. I get her name and number, which is the same as Adams's local number. I explain that nobody ever answers that number. She says they were having some trouble with it, but it's fixed now. She also has never heard of this catalog I have, but gives me yet another 800 number to call, AT&T Catalog Sales. These folks have also never heard of my catalog (not only have all these people never heard of the catalog, but they all seem amazed that I have it, want to know where I got it from, and can't grok that it only says "AT&T" on it, with no further identification. I read them everthing it says on the (very pretty) cover: "AT&T Premises Distribution Products Customer Catalog, 1989". Seems pretty straight-forward to me. Anyway, they eventually suggest that I call Graybar Electronics, and give me an 800 number for them! OK, I call that number, which is answered by "What company are you trying to reach?" Strangest way to answer a phone I've ever heard, except possibly for "Oh shit!". Half expecting to hear John Higdon offering to make me a hotel reservation, I say, timidly, "Graybar Electric?" They take my name, address, phone number, etc, and give me the number for Graybar. I ask them who I've reached, and all they will say is it's some kind of referral service. OK, I call the (local) number, get Graybar, but they refer me to Graybar's telecomm division, another local number. I get to talk to a very knowledgable person who thinks it perfectly normal that I'm looking for this kind of stuff, and asks if I have a comcode! She's not heard of that particular part, but I offer to fax her the appropriate pages from the AT&T catalog-from-hell, which she agrees to. I do so. She calls back a little while later to say she's located everything I need (they turn out to be an AT&T distributor), apologizes that the 400H will take 14 weeks, but has everything else in stock. She's even done some research and found another manufacturer who she thinks has something similar to a 400H and will track that lead down more if I like. She asks if we have an account, and when I say I would imagine so, since we've bought from them before, but I don't know the account number, she agrees that our respective business offices can worry about that later. In short, what you would expect from a company when you call them up knowing exactly what you need and just want the price. To top it all off, the prices she has are uniformly lower than the prices AT&T gave me (interestingly enough, different AT&T places gave me different prices for the same items). The biggest difference was on a box of 1000 ft of 4-pair 24 gauge station wire. AT&T wanted $140 a box, Graybar wants $47.83! Somebody recently mentioned that AT&T overcharges by 3 times on phone hardware. Had I not priced this wire, I would have thought he was joking, but now I know he's serious. Really makes you wonder how AT&T stays in business. Maybe Judge Green was right after all, lack of competition is bad. Roy Smith, Public Health Research Institute 455 First Avenue, New York, NY 10016 roy@alanine.phri.nyu.edu -OR- {att,philabs,cmcl2,rutgers,hombre}!phri!roy "My karma ran over my dogma" [Moderator's Note: Thank you for an excellent and interesting article. How *does* AT&T stay in business? I think its from the sheer momentum they have obtained over the decades. Some day it will all come to a screaming halt. Watch and see. I've said before some of their reps and operators these days are an embarassment. I guess you agree, huh? PT] ------------------------------ From: Vance Shipley Subject: Re: AT&T System 25 Experience Sought Reply-To: vances@xenitec.UUCP (Vance Shipley) Organization: SwitchView - Linton Technology Date: Fri, 16 Feb 90 14:24:48 GMT In article <3745@accuvax.nwu.edu> tronix@.UUCP (David Daniel) writes: >For that matter you'd do well to look into the SX-200 by Mitel which >gives you all that the System 25 does and more: The original posting stated that a requirement was CPC (Calling Party Control) on the 2500 (analog single line) ports. Does the SX switch do this? For that matter does the AT&T System 25 really do this? What this allows is an answering machine to recognize right away when someone disconnects from a call. The switch sends a momentary reversal on the line and the machine hangs up right away instead of recording lots o' nothing (or lots o' dial tone). I've never seen this work on a PBX and would be interested in hearing about one that worked. Anyone care to comment? How about you Daniel? vances@xenitec.on.ca ------------------------------ From: Steve Chu Subject: Re: Why DOES AT&T Behave The Way It Does? Date: 17 Feb 90 02:05:30 GMT Organization: AT&T Denver In article <3948@accuvax.nwu.edu>, john@zygot.ati.com (John Higdon) writes: > But the company hasn't yet learned what > to charge for its hardware. It's overpriced, and not just a little, > either. The Merlin lists for probably three times what it should sell > for to be competitive in the small business market. Since it's made > offshore, it costs no more to manufacture than any of its competitors > wares. The Merlin(tm) systems are NOT produced offshore. The factory for the control unit is located not two miles from where I am sitting. The desk units are produced in Louisiana. These two locations are not offshore by any means. The Merlin(tm) systems are high priced. AT&T also produces a less feature rich Key System in the Spirit(tm) line. ------------------------------ Reply-To: John Higdon Subject: Re: AT&T Behind Blocking of Japanese Business Phone Systems? Date: 16 Feb 90 00:53:35 PST (Fri) From: John Higdon Kevin Blatter writes: > My conclusion on the Anti-dumping case was that, at face value. The > Japanese aren't interested in playing fair, they're interested in > marketshare and profits. Unlike AT&T, which only has the best interests of its customers in mind. It would never do anything to increase its profits or marketshare if it wasn't strictly in the best interests of its valued customers :-) :-) > It they can dump their equipment on the > market for cheaper than what they sell comprable equipment on their > domestic markets to gain marketshare. You better believe they would. Once again, with feeling. The KX-T series has no counterpart for sale anywhere in the world except North America. Dumping cannot be an issue when everyone is playing on the same field. The ONLY (O-N-L-Y) place the KX-T line is sold is here. If they're dumping it or selling it below cost, what do they have to gain? The hardware and firmware of the 308, 616, and 1232s was specifically engineered from the ground up for the US and Canada. Is that clear? Just because AT&T charges an arm and a leg for Merlin doesn't mean anything about "cost of production". It just means that AT&T wants to sell it for that, and if they can bump the competition to protect that high profit, they will. Let's put to bed at long last all of this PR garbage about how nasty the Japanese are. Yes, they play hardball, but other US firms manage to play the game without legal Japan bashing (including a company that I work with). Maybe when AT&T gets over the idea that it IS god, it can play the competition game, and not whine about irrelavancies. Frankly, I'm weary of the old saw about how the Japanese don't play fair. It should be obvious to everyone by now that regardless of price, people in this country tend to buy Japanese simply because the products have quality and deliver what they promise. If they happen to be cheaper, so much the better. John Higdon | P. O. Box 7648 | +1 408 723 1395 john@bovine.ati.com | San Jose, CA 95150 | M o o ! ------------------------------ From: "a.e.mossberg" Subject: Answering Machine Advice Needed Reply-To: aem@mthvax.cs.miami.edu Organization: Peace Freedom Democracy Unlimited Date: Sat, 17 Feb 90 02:23:47 GMT Hi, I'm looking to buy an answering machine, and would like to hear any suggestions as to particular models currently available. I only need very basic features, even remote playback might be more than I really need. If you could please mail me your advice, and I'll summarize when it tapers off. Thanks, a.e.mossberg / aem@mthvax.cs.miami.edu / aem@umiami.BITNET / Pahayokee Bioregion The best way to get rid of unwanted flying insects is to have strong body odor. - David Byrne ------------------------------ End of TELECOM Digest V10 #107 ******************************   Received: from delta.eecs.nwu.edu by mintaka.lcs.mit.edu id aa15264; 17 Feb 90 4:53 EST Received: from mailinglists.eecs.nwu.edu by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id aa00245; 17 Feb 90 3:17 CST Received: from mailinglists.eecs.nwu.edu by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id aa25572; 17 Feb 90 2:14 CST Date: Sat, 17 Feb 90 1:25:47 CST From: TELECOM Moderator [To]: telecom@eecs.nwu.edu Subject: TELECOM Digest V10 #108 BCC: Message-ID: <9002170125.ab03763@delta.eecs.nwu.edu> TELECOM Digest Sat, 17 Feb 90 01:25:40 CST Volume 10 : Issue 108 Today's Topics: Moderator: Patrick Townson London Code Changes --- Server Now Available (Tim Oldham via Henry Mensch) Tokyo is Getting a Four Digit Prefix (Jeff Schriebman) Book Review: Stallings: ISDN, An Introduction (Jody Kravitz) Local Calls Between NJ, NY State (Carl Moore) Prevalence of 10xxx Dialing (Randal Schwartz) Modem Review: MAX 2400 FEC (Dan Bachmann) Re: Can I Be Charged to Have My Number Not Listed? (John Higdon) Re: The Cause of the AT&T Outage (David Lewis) Re: Sprint Makes An Offer You Can't Refuse! (60 Minutes Free) (D. Tamkin) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 16 Feb 90 19:44:06 -0500 From: Henry Mensch Subject: London Code Changes --- Server Now Available Reply-To: henry@garp.mit.edu (forwarded from Usenet) From: tjo@its.bt.co.uk (Tim Oldham) Newsgroups: bt.general,uk.general,eunet.general,misc.misc Subject: London Code Changes --- Server Now Available Date: 16 Feb 90 15:19:08 GMT Organization: BT Applied Systems, Birmingham, UK Lines: 79 From the 6th May 1990, the dialling codes for London UK change. The old code, 01 (which translates to +44 1 for international calls) is to be replaced by two different codes, 071 (+44 71) and 081 (+44 81). Obviously this is going to affect a large number of people. The split is by geography, so there is no simple rule about what numbers change from 01 to 071 and which from 01 to 081. However, it is possible to find out what the new code will be from the first 3 digits of the telephone number. For example, numbers that began 01 209 will change to 081 200 while numbers that began 01 210 will change to 071 210. I have set up a code-change info-server, london@its.bt.co.uk. This responds to messages such as request 209 with the information 01 209 -> 081 209 You can thus send a request to this server to find out what all the numbers that you regularly use will become. You can also ask it for a complete list of all the new codes by sending a message with a line saying request all I am appending the full help document that will be sent if you send a message containing the word 'help' or if your message does not contain any requests. Tim. How to Use the London Code Change Server Note: substitute the leading 0 for +44 to change UK internal codes to their international equivalents. The address london@its.bt.co.uk is used to find out what the new code of London telephone numbers will be from 6th May 1990. From that date, the 01 code will no longer be valid and will be replaced by 071 or 081 depending on the first three digits of the number. For example, the number 01 200 0200 will become 081 200 0200 from the 6th May. Simply send a message contains one or more lines of the form request <3 digits> ... to london@its.bt.co.uk. Here <3 digits> means the first three digits of the telephone number. You will be sent a message telling you what the new code will be. For example, to find out what 01 200 will become, send request 200 to london@its.bt.co.uk. You may send multiple lines and each line may contain several numbers. For example, you may send request 200 335 383 998 request 911 512 request 480 which will send you a message containing all the new codes. In addition, you can obtain a list of all the new codes by sending a request of the form request all to london@its.bt.co.uk. Please *don't* put the request in the ``Subject'' field of your message. For a full information pack on the code changes, phone *free* 0800 800 873 (free in UK only). Tim Oldham, BT Applied Systems. tjo@its.bt.co.uk or ...!ukc!axion!its!tjo ``Asking questions is the best way to get answers.'' --- Philip Marlowe. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Feb 90 11:29:40+0900 From: Jeff Schriebman Subject: Tokyo is Getting a Four Digit Prefix We recently received a flier in our NTT monthly billing that says that effective January 1, 1991 at 2:00 AM the Tokyo metropolitan area will expand its three digit prefix code into a four digit one. The new extra number which will be prepended to the prefix will be the digit "3". Tokyo's local code is already a 03 so effective January 1 old numbers of the form 03-nnn-nnnn will become 03-3nnn-nnnn. ******************************************************************** * Jeff Schriebman Nippon Unisoft Corporation * * Tel: (03) 237-3321 No. 25 Kowa Building, 4th Floor * * Fax: (03) 237-3322 8-7 Sanbancho, Chiyoda-ku, Tokyo 102 JAPAN * * JUNET: jeff@jusoft.co.jp UUCP: uunet!unisoft!jeff * ******************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Feb 90 19:06:57 PST From: Jody Kravitz Subject: Book Review: Stallings: ISDN, An Introduction I have just read William Stalling's new textbook on ISDN: Stallings, W. "ISDN, An Introduction", New York: MacMillan, 1989 ISBN 0-02-415471-7 There are frequent questions posted to Telecom Digest regarding ISDN, FAX, and CCITT standards. I believe "ISDN, An Introduction" will provide many of the answers readers of the Digest desire. Stallings writing style is clear and well organized. The book is 418 pages excluding the preface and table of contents. I have used the book's bibliography extensively for additional research; it is excellent. I would like to share my enthusiasm for this book with others. The book's preface answers the questions "What is covered in the book?", and "In what style is it written ?" as carefully and eloquently as the technical material in the book is presented. I bought this book immediately after reading the preface. I have written to the publisher for permission to quote the preface to the digest. If I receive permission, I will repost this message with the preface included. Jody P.S. To reply to me Internet: foxtail!kravitz@ucsd.edu uucp: ucsd!foxtail!kravitz ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Feb 90 15:54:05 EST From: Carl Moore (VLD/VMB) Subject: Local Calls Between NJ, NY State In a call guide from United Telephone of NJ, I saw the following with regard to local calls to NY state (NJ area code 201 here-- no reference yet to 908). From Sussex 702 & 875, local call to Unionville, NY (914-726) changed June 1, 1989 from 7D to 1+914+7D. I don't know the calling instructions the other way around, although I do NOT think 914 area has N0/1X prefixes. There is no note provided about change in calling instructions for Montague, NJ (293 prefix) -- notice that its local service, except for the Montague prefix itself, is all out of state: 754 & 856 in Port Jervis, NY (area 914) 828 in Dingmans Ferry, Pa. (area 717) 296 in Milford, Pa. (area 717) 686 in Log Tavern, Pa. (area 717) 491 in Matamoras, Pa. (area 717) And in a NJ Bell prefix list, I see 201-512 for Cragmere. Isn't that next door to Suffern, NY? If so, it's local to that NY point. ------------------------------ From: Randal Schwartz Subject: Prevalence of 10xxx Dialing Reply-To: Randal Schwartz Organization: Stonehenge; netaccess via Intel, Beaverton, Oregon, USA Date: Thu, 15 Feb 90 05:01:02 GMT In article <3886@accuvax.nwu.edu>, levin@bbn (Joel B. Levin) writes: | >104-441-700-TALK-121 | Looks like a new way to avoid 900 blocking to me. 'course, this works only in those areas that have 10XXX (Feature Group D?) dialing. Is that everywhere *except* the backwaters of GTE Northwest, now? Or are there still many places that don't have 10XXX dialing? We can do 950-xxxx and "select our default 1+ carrier", but 10XXX is only for the local Bell-co (US West, or whatever they changed their name to this week) customers. Just another telephone "operator", /=Randal L. Schwartz, Stonehenge Consulting Services (503)777-0095 ==========\ | on contract to Intel's iWarp project, Beaverton, Oregon, USA, Sol III | | merlyn@iwarp.intel.com ...!any-MX-mailer-like-uunet!iwarp.intel.com!merlyn | \=Cute Quote: "Welcome to Portland, Oregon, home of the California Raisins!"=/ ------------------------------ From: danb20@pro-graphics.cts.com (Dan Bachmann) Subject: Modem Review: MAX2400 FEC Date: 16 Feb 90 10:56:22 GMT I just got a new Maxon MAX2400 BPS modem w/ error corretion. I expected some old version of MNP but it has FEC (Forward error correction) instead. The modem looks cheap, lacks many LEDs, and does not support EXTENDED Hayes commands, also the manually is poorly written lacking information about status indicators and error handling technique. It says that 2400bps modems without error correction get an error every 50 sec., but this one will get an error only every 9 hours, but.... the FEC error correction will only work when talking to another Maxon brand MAX2400 modem at 2400bps or at 1200bps. I guess no other modem in the universe supports FEC, so this feature is totally useless, yet it is the biggest hype on the box and in the ads. Oh well, just expressing myself... I can't complain too much 'cause the modem does work as expected and is a 2400external for under $100. ProLine: danb20@pro-graphics UUCP: ...crash!pro-graphics!danb20 ARPA/DDN: pro-graphics!danb20@nosc.mil Internet: danb20@pro-graphics.cts.com ------------------------------ Reply-To: John Higdon Subject: Re: Can I Be Charged to Have My Number Not Listed? Date: 16 Feb 90 00:28:56 PST (Fri) From: John Higdon julian macassey writes: > I wonder what 50% of the > population of LA think they are avoiding. Certainly not the boiler > rooms peddling the LA Times, they dial sequentially. Boy, did you push the right button. Just the other evening, I was trying to get some work done here and I couldn't help but notice my modems answering calls that had nothing on the other end. Then my private line rang. "Are you receiving the San Jose Mercury all right?" Without thinking, I answered in the affirmative. It even occured to me that the Mercury always seems to land on the porch and the Chronicle ends up half way out in the street. I thought, "Why doesn't the Chronicle call me so I can give them an earfull?" Anyway, I went back to work and in the back of my mind was the question of how on earth did they know my private line? Then the modems started up again and the phone rang again. "Are you receiving the San Jose Mercury all right?" "Yes, yes, I am." Then it hit me: this was a boiler room simply soliciting and to top it all off, they didn't even have a subscriber list. This approach was their way of gracefully exiting when they hit a subscriber. Back to work. Modems again. Mercury again. This time I told the hapless person on the other end of the line that if I got one more call on this line this evening, they could STOP the paper. There were no more calls, but the incident points out the futility of hiding behind an unlisted number for the purpose of avoiding solicitation calls. John Higdon | P. O. Box 7648 | +1 408 723 1395 john@bovine.ati.com | San Jose, CA 95150 | M o o ! ------------------------------ From: David Lewis Subject: Re: The Cause of the AT&T Outage Date: 16 Feb 90 22:17:52 GMT Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ In article <3737@accuvax.nwu.edu>, munnari!batserver.cs.uq.oz.au!anthony@ uunet.uu.net (Anthony Lee) writes: > In the offical explanation of the AT&T outage, the following was > written about the software flaw. > >with the main CCS7 signaling network. While the software had been > >rigorously tested in laboratory environments before it was introduced, > >the unique combination of events that led to this problem couldn't be > >predicted. > I would really like to know if AT&T does rigorously test their > software as they claim. Can anyone confirm that ? I don't work for AT&T (never have), so I guess my rising to their defense won't be viewed as an automatic knee-jerk response. (Although I suppose it could be viewed as an antitrust violation of the MFJ, but I guess I'll just have to take my chances...) Basic answer: Yes, yes, yes. System test and integration testing are, I would guess, a larger proportion of the effort than the actual development. (Although the line between "development" and "testing" blurs a tad...) > Furthermore does a company like AT&T use any of the modern software > engineering techniques for their software development ? e.g. Formal > Specifications, Proofs of correctness of critical parts of software > etc.? Like I say, I don't work there, but I would guess the answer is again yes, yes, yes. The problem is less one of unit testing than one of integration testing. In other words, it's not tough to ensure a single piece of code works correctly -- but it's very tough to ensure that that single piece of code works correctly with the five million other pieces of code floating around the inside of a 4E and the fifty million other pieces of code floating around the network(s). The permutations of what can happen get unmanageably large extremely quickly. The exact procedures used for integration testing, I know even less about than I do these basic principles, so I can't say more. I suspect it's more rigorous than "identify the obvious and pray the rest is sufficiently unlikely", but I couldn't prove it... David G Lewis ...!bellcore!nvuxr!deej (@ Bellcore Navesink Research & Engineering Center) "If this is paradise, I wish I had a lawnmower." ------------------------------ From: David Tamkin Subject: Re: Sprint Makes An Offer You Can't Refuse! (60 Minutes Free) Date: Fri, 16 Feb 90 15:06:08 CST Reply-To: point!dattier@ddsw1.uucp In TELECOM Digest, Volume 10, Issues 98-103, various people express concern about having their primary long-distance carrier assignment switched to U S Sprint if they go for the WD40 prize. My parents' phone numbers have had 10XXX-only service on my U S Sprint account since 1987. Until March, 1989, Sprint was my 1+ carrier, so like the (erroneous when done by MCI but correct when done by Sprint) marking (that should never, never have been) on my MCI account, my Sprint account bore an indicator that it included 1+ service. However, U S Sprint has never attempted to cajole Illinois Bell into changing my parents' primary carrier from AT&T to Sprint. In March, 1989, I changed my 1+ carrier to Teleconnect USA (now Telecom*USA), but at no time since has Sprint asked Central Telephone to change me back. So I think that Sprint isn't big on MCI's sleazy ploy. If it weren't for Around Town, I'd tell MCI to take a hike. There is an epilogue to the trouble my parents were having with MCI: Bill Huttig told me that Southern Bell flagged his account for them not to accept any carrier's uncorroborated word on the matter. I asked Illinois Bell if they had the same provision, and not only could they do it, but they even had a standard printed form for the subscriber to sign, saying that IBT may affiliate the line with a new 1+ carrier ONLY at the customer's request. If they get so many complaints that they have a printed form against it, why the heck don't they just stop trusting the carriers? David W. Tamkin dattier@point.UUCP ...{ddsw1,obdient!vpnet}!point!dattier BIX: dattier GEnie: D.W.TAMKIN CIS: 73720,1570 (708) 518-6769 (312) 693-0591 P. O. Box 813 Rosemont, Illinois 60018-0813 All other point users disagree. ------------------------------ End of TELECOM Digest V10 #108 ******************************   Received: from delta.eecs.nwu.edu by mintaka.lcs.mit.edu id aa22478; 18 Feb 90 2:06 EST Received: from mailinglists.eecs.nwu.edu by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id aa25490; 18 Feb 90 0:34 CST Received: from mailinglists.eecs.nwu.edu by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id aa09342; 17 Feb 90 23:27 CST Date: Sat, 17 Feb 90 22:49:57 CST From: TELECOM Moderator [To]: telecom@eecs.nwu.edu Subject: TELECOM Digest V10 #109 BCC: Message-ID: <9002172250.ab21098@delta.eecs.nwu.edu> TELECOM Digest Sat, 17 Feb 90 22:47:53 CST Volume 10 : Issue 109 Today's Topics: Moderator: Patrick Townson Re: Caller ID (NOT Another Flame!) (William Degnan) Re: Caller ID (NOT Another Flame!) (Gordon Burditt) Re: The Cause of the AT&T Outage (Steve Nuchia) Re: AT&T Behind Blocking of Japanese Business Phone Systems? (David Neill) Re: Transferring a Call With Three-Way Calling (Roger Clark Swann) Re: AT&T Sytem 25 Experience Sought (David Daniel) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 15 Feb 90 23:56:01 CST From: William Degnan Subject: Re: Caller ID (NOT Another Flame!) In a message of ames!ames!claris!portal!cup.portal. writes: From: ames!ames!claris!portal!cup.portal.com!fleming@uunet.uu.net Message-ID: <3841@accuvax.nwu.edu> >I have been observing the recent debates over Caller ID services. The >major arguments seem to boil down to these: > The pro-Caller-ID people want an "electronic peephole" so they can > see who's calling and screen out junk calls. > Some anti-Caller-ID people are upset about losing the privacy of > their unlisted telephone numbers. > Other anti people are worried about the public refusing to call > help hotlines (drugs, battered women, IRS, etc.) if they believe their > call may be traced. What if... Pushing the NO ID code on an outbound call causes the CO to send a public-key encrypted caller ID which could be decrypted by telco security. Then everybody is protected for what they want. Disclaimer: Contents do not constitute "advice" unless we are on the clock William Degnan | wdegnan@mcimail.com !wdegnan@at&tmail.com Communications Network Solutions | William.Degnan@telemail.com P.O. Box 9530, Austin, TX 78766 | voice: 512 323-9383 William Degnan -- via The Q Continuum (FidoNet Node 1:382/31) UUCP: ...!rpp386!tqc!39!wdegnan ARPA: wdegnan@f39.n382.z1.FIDONET.ORG ------------------------------ From: Gordon Burditt Subject: Re: Caller ID (NOT Another Flame!) Date: 17 Feb 90 18:22:41 GMT Organization: Gordon Burditt In article <3841@accuvax.nwu.edu> ames!ames!claris!portal!cup.portal.com! fleming@uunet.uu.net writes: >Electronic peephole -- compare the following two calls given Calling >Line ID and its more sophisticated cousin, Calling *Party* ID: > Calling Line ID Calling Party ID > (number only) (ASCII string) > +------------------------------------------- >Call #1 | 703-847-1234 ABC CARPET SALES >Call #2 | 703-847-5678 VA. STATE PATROL What you have proposed appears to be "Calling Line Owner ID", not Calling Party ID. If you really mean "Calling Party ID", how do you identify yourself to your home phone differently from your spouse or son? How does the phone prevent you from identifying yourself as your son? The (un)forgability of the ID goes beyond just technical issues. I have several objections to Calling Party ID as proposed: - Unless the IDs are unique per line (or group of lines at the same location) over the entire earth, I can't block JOHN D. SMITH #268, who sells insurance, without blocking JOHN D. SMITH #891, my manager. ("Blocking" means customer-provided blocking, which may mean reading the display and deciding not to answer, or using some fancy CPE computer to do the same thing). Services like Call*Block can't economically handle blocking 10% of an entire local calling area of a large city. - The name "Calling Party ID" is making claims on which it cannot deliver. But some people might believe them. I can easily imagine a jealous husband examining the caller-ID device and beating up on his wife because she spends too much time talking to men. Actually, he is observing that there is no room for "MR.& MRS. JOHN D. FINKELHEIMER" or "JOHN D. & MARY F. FINKELHEIMER" on the display, so most married couples show up as a male name. - Some people might consider the ownership-of-the-line information to be an invasion of privacy, or embarassing. For example, some couples living together will not appreciate being identified to either set of parents as a couple, the wrong member of the couple, or ANONYMOUS, which is a tip-off that something funny is going on. I don't consider suggestions that all households should have a line per person to be particularly helpful. - The proposal says nothing about pay phones at all. Is the display supposed to say "PAYPHONE SE CORNER OF MAIN AND 7TH, EAST TIMBUCKTU, NORTH DAKOTA, USA"? Or is the user supposed to key in his own or someone else's ID? There is a similar problem with hotel residents vs. someone working for the hotel chain. - Having the IDs of a group of lines going to the same business be the same would probably defeat any attempt to figure out whether it's a modem or human based on calling number, so "SOUTHWESTERN BELL" might be their Wire Maintenance Telemarketing department or their USENET node. Of course, businesses with all their lines behind one PBX will defeat this with Caller-ID also. - Probably the only way to assure privacy when calling an enemy hotline, especially where the enemy has power over your carrier, is to run the call through several mutually non-cooperating carriers that are so hostile to each other they won't exchange billing information. (In this instance, why would they be willing to carry the call at all?) Calls to the IRS should go through China, the Soviet Union, South Africa, Lebanon, bounce off the moon, and then on to the Romulins, the Borg, and the Ferengi before going to the IRS. The trouble is, the end-to-end delay on the line would get a little long. Nobody else has a solution to this, either, but a per-call ID disable is a good start. Gordon L. Burditt sneaky.lonestar.org!gordon ------------------------------ From: Steve Nuchia Subject: Re: The Cause of the AT&T Outage Date: 17 Feb 90 17:00:30 GMT Reply-To: Steve Nuchia Organization: Houston Public Access In article <4011@accuvax.nwu.edu> nvuxr!deej@bellcore.bellcore.com (David Lewis) writes: >In article <3737@accuvax.nwu.edu>, munnari!batserver.cs.uq.oz.au!anthony@ >uunet.uu.net (Anthony Lee) writes: >> Furthermore does a company like AT&T use any of the modern software >> engineering techniques for their software development ? e.g. Formal >> Specifications, Proofs of correctness of critical parts of software etc.? >Like I say, I don't work there, but I would guess the answer is again >yes, yes, yes. Doesn't really pay to guess about this sort of thing, but if you knew how 99.9% of working programmers feel about proving code you'd have a better chance of guessing correctly. AT&T does have good structured walkthrough and code review procedures, at least on some projects. They have a decent film avalilable on it. But the switching software doesn't even have a sane architecture, much less provable correctness. I sincerely doubt there is even a formal specification for the overall system, and there probably is none for a majority of the component. Source: conversation with a well-known Bell Labs programmer at the Usenix software management workshop in New Orleans. I'm not sure whether or not he'd mind me using his name. The software on the number 5 consists of well over a hundred separate executable images, one for each combination of features on the calling and called numbers. It is all written in low-level C, and none of it is proved correct. He said there had been a project to develop a 4GL for switching applications, and it had been fairly successful, but that inertia or something like that had prevented its use for the number 5 project. In other words, the switches are running with 60's (OK, maybe 70's) programming methodology made to work by brute force. Like the dancing bear, the wonder isn't how well it dances, but that it dances at all. There is also an assertion, the source of which I have forgotten, that approximately 75% of the code in the number 5 is devoted to audit functions -- detecting and correcting errors made by the 25% that tries to do useful work. If true, this is a great example of the cost of glueing reliability on rather than building it in. By the way, Mr. Lewis asks about "proofs of correctness of critical parts of software". I'm not sure what he had in mind, but proving small sections of a large program is very nearly pointless. It is a handy technique for getting tricky loops right, but doesn't really say much about what the program will do. Particularly in a language like C, where bad code can change the rules of the game on you. Of course, proving the program correct doesn't help until the compiler and hardware are proved correct, and since they are using AT&T C compilers and Intel CPUs, that could be a problem. Steve Nuchia South Coast Computing Services (713) 964-2462 "If the conjecture `You would rather I had not disturbed you by sending you this.' is correct, you may add it to the list of uncomfortable truths." - Edsgar Dijkstra ------------------------------ From: 4007 Subject: Re: AT&T Behind Blocking of Japanese Business Phone Systems? Date: 17 Feb 90 18:45:07 GMT Reply-To: David Neill-OKCy Mktg 405-278-4007 Organization: Southwestern Bell Tele. Co. - Advanced Technology Lab - St. Louis In article <4002@accuvax.nwu.edu> John Higdon writes: X-Telecom-Digest: Volume 10, Issue 107, message 4 of 5 >Kevin Blatter writes: >> My conclusion on the Anti-dumping case was that, at face value. The >> Japanese aren't interested in playing fair, they're interested in >> marketshare and profits. To which they openly admit. >Once again, with feeling. The KX-T series has no counterpart for sale >anywhere in the world except North America. Dumping cannot be an issue >when everyone is playing on the same field. The ONLY (O-N-L-Y) place >the KX-T line is sold is here. If they're dumping it or selling it >below cost, what do they have to gain? The hardware and firmware of >the 308, 616, and 1232s was specifically engineered from the ground up >for the US and Canada. Is that clear? I'm not sure I follow this line of reasoning. In a capitalistic market, the "big guys" can sell at a loss for a while, forcing the "small guys" out. In this case, we might be talking about big guys vs. big guys, but the gripe is this: There are a lot of barriers to U.S companies attempting to penetrate the Japanese market, placed primarily by the Japanese gov't. In general the reverse isn't (or hasn't) been true. In addition, there is a significant amount of "partnering" between Japanese companies and the Japanese gov't. Can even AT&T compete (or stay in the market) against a competitor that has the backing of a VERY rich national government? Is it fair that AT&T (or any other American company) should have to compete against companies that can either over-charge a private (home) market (to which market the American company is denied access) in order to subsidize low prices here (even if said company over-prices a different product at home), OR is it fair to the American company to have to compete with a company that MAY (I do not know this to be the case) be subsidized by the Japanese gov't? What difference does it make whether the market for any one particular item is only U.S. and Canada? What they stand to gain is a market for KX-T that has only one supplier (them), and when that happens, do you suppose that they will still sell the product below cost? Capitalism only works to the benefit of consumers when the market is open to honest and fair competition. Unfortunately, when organizations grow large enough to control prices, it seems that many seek to lock up their markets through various non-competitive practices, rather than continue to strive for the best price/product/ service/performance etc.. This is true of many American companies, as well as foreign companies and governments. name & address (this account) -> uunet!swbatl!dwn OR dwn@swbatl.swbt.com David Neill office -> 405-278-4007 -> uunet!swbatl!oktext!mktco Mgr - Mktg.(SWBTCo) home -> 405-749-1141 -> uunet!swbatl!oktext!frodo!david ------------------------------ From: Roger Clark Swann Subject: Re: Transferring a Call With Three-Way Calling Date: 16 Feb 90 21:50:01 GMT Organization: Boeing Aerospace & Electronics, Seattle WA In article <3663@accuvax.nwu.edu>, c186aj@cory.berkeley.edu (Steve Forrette) writes: > In article <3623@accuvax.nwu.edu> you write: > >[Moderator's Note: So far as I have seen, it cannot be done EXCEPT > >under Starline/Intellidial/Centrex by whatever name. Ooops! This is a > >family Digest; I shouldn't have said that nasty word, should I, JH? I > >can do what you are asking on my lines here with Starline, but under > >regular three way calling, when the middle-man disconnects, all drop > >off. PT] Note about how Centrex from Pac*Bell did provide transfer deleted... Note from the Moderator about how later versions of the IBT software would allow call transfer if the middle man disconnected... ...again deleted... Here in US WEST territory, it works the way Patrick described. When I ordered 3-way calling on my line, that is serviced by a 5ESS, the Rep told me that with the regular 3-way calling ($1.75 per month) under the plan USWEST calls 'tele-choice', all parties would be disconnected if the middle man were to hang up. However, if I were to get the single-line Centrex service called 'Centra-flex' at $2.50 per month, then I, as the middle man could hang up and the other parties could continue to talk. A friend on the same CO, that has the cheaper tele-choice version on his line, and with mine line, the Centra-flex version, checked this out. A few test calls confirmed what the rep had told me. So, even with the same hardware, these features seem to be programmed differently depending upon how much one is willing to pay. Roger Swann | uucp: uw-beaver!ssc-vax!clark @ | The Boeing Company | ------------------------------ From: tronix@polari.UUCP (David Daniel) Subject: Re: AT&T System 25 Experience Sought Date: 17 Feb 90 14:53:46 GMT Reply-To: tronix@.UUCP (David Daniel) Organization: PolarServ, Seattle WA Apparently the Mitel switch doesn't do that. However I'm sure there is more than one way around it. Using the Mitel VX Voice Processing System would be the best way. Actually, ANY WAY of avoiding AT&T would be preferrable to going with there overpriced underteched equipment. Another way might be to go end-to-end digital via T1, 2, 3, etc. "What's so funny 'bout peace, love & understanding?" Elvis Costello ------------------------------ End of TELECOM Digest V10 #109 ******************************   Received: from delta.eecs.nwu.edu by mintaka.lcs.mit.edu id aa29704; 18 Feb 90 5:20 EST Received: from mailinglists.eecs.nwu.edu by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id aa15893; 18 Feb 90 3:43 CST Received: from mailinglists.eecs.nwu.edu by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id aa05776; 18 Feb 90 2:35 CST Date: Sun, 18 Feb 90 2:24:45 CST From: TELECOM Moderator [To]: telecom@eecs.nwu.edu Subject: TELECOM Digest V10 #110 BCC: Message-ID: <9002180224.ab12451@delta.eecs.nwu.edu> TELECOM Digest Sun, 18 Feb 90 02:20:10 CST Volume 10 : Issue 110 Today's Topics: Moderator: Patrick Townson Long Distance "Call Aggregation" Conference (TELECOM Moderator) Information Needed on AI Traffic Management (Annie Zuraidah Shamsudin) Cancel Call Waiting (Joe Stong) Re: Why DOES AT&T Behave The Way It Does? (Steve Bellovin) Re: Why DOES AT&T Behave The Way It Does? (Thomas Lapp) Book Review: The Matrix - Computer Networks (Paul Wilczynski) Toll Free But Not 800 (Ken Levitt) Re: More 800, 900 Curiosities (Dave Levenson) Re: More 800, 900 Curiosities (David Leibold) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 18 Feb 90 1:16:39 CST From: TELECOM Moderator Subject: Long Distance "Call Aggregation" Conference On March 5-6, a conference led by Dr. Robert Self, one the best known independent long distance experts in the United States, will spotlight all types of third party marketing programs by long distance companies. Many long distance companies now let third-party firms -- consultants, assocations, brokers and other agents -- market their services. Executives at major carriers have quit to form their own companies as third-party long-distance resellers. MCI, Sprint and others allow you to be an independent sales agent, broker or rebiller, etc. You either earn commissions or mark up cost of calls. No telecom equipment, very little capital to get started. AT&T recently began to allow third parties to 'aggregate' both 800 and outbound services. Users get lower rates, AT&T does the billing, and the 'aggregators' do the marketing and take part of the extra customer savings as their fee. Sprint and MCI are both complaining to the FCC that AT&T's aggregation is illegal, but since they both do it, as well as many of their lesser competitors, they are hardly in a position to complain very much. With rebilling, sometimes known as 'switchless reselling', aggregation, and other third-party marketing, you use a carrier's switch and network. You sell to customers anywhere in the United States. You can make a bundle of money, or you can lose your pants. This sounds like one of the better conferences going on this year. You might like to investigate further, or plan to attend. If some of you attend, please get back to us with a report for the Digest afterward. Name: Long Distance Marketing in 1990 Place: Sheraton World Resort, Orlando, FL (near Disney World, Epcot Center) Date: March 5-6, 1990 ( 9 AM - 5 PM both days) Price: $575 per person; $495 each if two or more in same group. This includes lunch and refreshments both days. Make checks payable to Lexicom, Inc. 2263 West Liberty Street Ann Arbor, MI 48103-4405 If you have ever met or heard (or read) Bob Self, I think you will agree his participation alone makes the price very reasonable. To register: 800-678-0398 FAX: 313-994-8644 Other Info: 313-994-8600 The Sheraton World Resort is holding a block of rooms for the occasion. They are $105 each per night. Phone 800-327-0363. Patrick Townson ------------------------------ From: Annie Zuraidah Shamsudin Subject: Information Needed On AI Traffic Management Date: 14 Feb 90 04:12:40 GMT Organization: Comp Sci, La Trobe Uni, Australia Hi, I've got 3 basic questions concerining telecommunications and AI: 1. I have been reading a paper 'Adaptive traffic routing in telephone networks' written by G.Bel et al. Am I right in summarising that all the methods he suggested are just variations and extensions of the basic learning automata that he presented in the first section? They all receive input/feedback (some more sophisticated than others?), perform some algorithm (the reinforcement scheme?), and choose their output (ie the route) based on the results. This seems to be the general definition for Learning Automata. Can I go so far as to say that all adaptive routing techniques are learning aumatons with different feedback and reinforcement schemes, and over different time intervals? 2. Alistair Mees wrote in 'Simple is best for dynamic routing of telecommunications' about a new technique called "Dynamic Alternative Routing' (awaiting patent at the time of article, 1986). Is this another form of Learning Automata? And isn't it more of an adaptive routing rather than dynamic routing? I've got the defn. of dynamic routing as having reserved routes planned at the early designing stage to be used during overloads [Bel at alia as above]. 3. Its been suggested to me that two different approaches to Network traffic managements are expert systems and learning automata. Is this generally accepted and are there any others that I can look into? Where does Linear Programming methods come in? Is it another learning scheme? Would not learning schemes be just a subset of possible expert system implementations? I would appreciate suggestions, objections and possible references. Thanks in advance. -annie- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Feb 90 03:00:30 PST From: Joe Stong Subject: Cancel Call Waiting I know about *70 to cancel call waiting before making a call in Pac*Bell land, but is there any way to turn it off indefinitely? I've had some upleasant scenes when I was in the middle of remotely retrieving messages from my answering machine, and someone interrupted me with another call to my answering machine. The current reversal told the answering machine to drop dead, and fortunately this machine resets resets reasonably, but it did cause me to have to replay about 10 messages. The other caller rang for a minute or so while the answering machine rewound itsself, and prepared to take messages again. Thus, I'd like to be able to disable call waiting for the time that the answering machine is the only answerer (when I'm out of the house) and I'll be happy to manually re-enable it when I'm back. (Even better if I could have the infrared motion detector and the RF signature ID system that detects that I've entered the house send something to the dialer, but that comes later %-) .) Joe Stong jst@cca.ucsf.edu [Moderator's Note: I suppose if you could have your answering machine pick up the line for an incoming call; simulate a switchhook flash; send *70 over the line; flash the hook again, and *then* start its outgoing announcement to the caller you'd have what you are looking for. But typically, cancel call waiting only starts when you dial *70 (or local variation), and ends immediatly when the phone goes back on hook. PT] ------------------------------ From: smb@ulysses.att.com Subject: Re: Why DOES AT&T Behave The Way It Does? Date: Sat, 17 Feb 90 08:15:52 EST I'm sorry you had a bad experience with AT&T; I've had just the opposite fairly recently, and the folks involved did not even know that I was an AT&T employee. I wandered into a phone store to ask some odd questions about A-A1 signalling and some equipment. I wasn't surprised that they didn't know what I meant. They wanted to do more for me -- call some 800 number or other -- but I didn't have the time; I'd wandered in on impulse on my way elsewhere. So I took a catalog (that did list an 800 number, for orders or information), and left. A couple of days later -- the day before Thanksgiving -- I tried that number. Of course, the order clerk didn't know what I was talking about, but she first tried asking everyone else in the room, including her supervisor. I tried to beg off, but she insisted on getting my name and phone number, and promising me a return call the next real business day (i.e., Monday, not that Friday, which is reasonable -- I was off on Friday, too, and I assume that many other AT&T employees are). Sure enough, I got a phone call Monday. The woman I spoke to not only knew exactly what I was talking about, she gave me the answer I needed, told me that AT&T didn't make the part, told me who did, and gave me the phone number and price. She was sufficiently knowledgeable that she even knew some other vendors that had carried it in the past. --Steve Bellovin ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Feb 90 22:38:04 est From: Thomas Lapp Subject: Re: Why DOES AT&T Behave The Way It Does? From: roy@phri.nyu.edu (Roy Smith) > Let me tell you a longish story about AT&T marketing. Guess what? It isn't just customers that have this problem. Where I work, we have an AT&T guy assigned to our "account", so when I had a question about an autocall unit (see earlier digests for that story), I asked Bob. He said he didn't know, but we went to his office and I watched as he made "a few phone calls". Well, he had the phone numbers to get him where he wanted to go, but found that one of the people he was trying to reach wasn't in and he didn't have an up-to-date number for the other fellow he wanted to reach. Therein lies the humourous story. Bob spent the next 1/2 hour or so dialing numbers, asking for this fellow's number, getting transferred to the wrong phone, wrong people, and twice to never-never land! I never did get my answer. He had to put it on his to-do list for Monday and will get back to me! - tom internet : mvac23!thomas@udel.edu or thomas%mvac23@udel.edu uucp : {ucbvax,mcvax,psuvax1,uunet}!udel!mvac23!thomas Europe Bitnet: THOMAS1@GRATHUN1 Location: Newark, DE, USA Quote : Virtual Address eXtension. Is that like a 9-digit zip code? [Moderator's Note: These two messages, which I specifically placed in juxtaposition with each other illustrate what many of us have believed for years: AT&T and/or any huge organization are as good and efficient and concerned as their best, most effecient and most concerned employees. They are as clumsy, ineffecient and screwed up as their most clumsy, inefficient and screwed up employees. The analogy about the chain being as strong as its weakest links might also apply here. I've met and worked with many intelligent, very dedicated AT&T people. PT] ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Feb 90 09:30 EST From: Paul Wilczynski <0002293637@mcimail.com> Subject: Book Review: The Matrix - Computer Networks I came across an interesting book that some readers might be interested in. Published by Digital Press, it's called The Matrix - Computer Networks and Conferencing Systems Worldwide by John S. Quarterman. A random selection of Contents includes ... 4 Layers and Protocols 4.1 Layering Models (ISO Reference Model, Internet Reference Model...) 4.2 Protol Suites (TCP/IP, ISO-OSI ...) 4.3 Dialup Protocols (UUCP, SAA ...) 5 Management Protocols 5.1 Connectivity 5.2 Configuration (Star, Tree ....) 5.4 Address Spaces (X.121, IP...) 6 Administration 7 History and Features 7.1 Time-Sharing Services 7.2 Corporations 7.3 Researchers 7.5 Conferencing Systems (PLANET, MAILBOX, PLATO, NOTEPAD ...) 7.7 Influences (Internets, Host Size ...) 8 Standard Bodies 8.2 PTTs 8.3 Governments 10 World-Wide Networks 11 The Internet 12 North America (chapters for other continents) Appendix A Public Data Networks B Computer-Mediated Communication and the Law It's over 700 pages, and includes a note in the back that they are developing a computer-accessible database of this information, complete with address of the person to whom to write. The book is $49.95. Further info from 1-800-DIGITAL. Paul J. Wilczynski Krislyn Computer Services ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Feb 90 18:35:15 EST From: Ken Levitt Subject: Toll Free But Not 800 I just received a beeper with what seems like a rather unique phone number. The phone number is 617-230-xxxx. Calls to this number are free when dialed from anywhere in the 617 or 508 area codes (except from COCOTs). When I first got the phone number, I wanted to confirm with New England Telephone that this truly was a toll free call. I made a call on my local line, but I have to wait a month for my bill on that. Then I called the operator and asked about this special exchange. She knew nothing about it and told me to call the business office. I called the business office for residence subscribers and was told that I would have to call the business office for business subscribers. The second business office took a long time with me on hold to check this out and finally told me that they could neither confirm or deny the status of this exchange. They also were not able to tell me of any department within N.E.T. that could provide more information. I was finally able to confirm the toll free status of this number by going to a "real" New England Telephone payphone. It really worked without having to deposit any money. Then I want to a COCOT which asked me to deposit $1.15 for the first three minutes. Can anyone tell me if there is any way around the COCOT problem? Are COCOT's supposed to take these calls for free? What if from a COCOT I used an ATT credit card? When the bill came in could I refuse to pay because the number is free? Why is it that I could not find anyone at N.E.T. who knew about these special exchanges? I think that the salesman at the beeper company called this a "Type 3" number or exchange. Ken Levitt - On FidoNet gateway node 1:16/390 UUCP: zorro9!levitt INTERNET: levitt%zorro9.uucp@talcott.harvard.edu ------------------------------ From: Dave Levenson Subject: Re: More 800, 900 Curiosities Date: 17 Feb 90 18:50:00 GMT Organization: Westmark, Inc., Warren, NJ, USA In article <3950@accuvax.nwu.edu>, rmadison@euler.berkeley.edu (Linc Madison) writes: > I recently saw two (N00) numbers advertised on TV which caught my > attention. > The second was Sports Illustrated, with the number to dial for > subscriptions listed as 1-800-950-2288. Apparently the use of the 950 > prefix for non-telcos is happening in 1-800 as well as in "real" NPAs. 800-950-xxxx belongs to MCI. Their own access number is 800-950-1022 which looks like their 10222 carrier-selection code, which also looks like their 950-1022 FG-B access code. Dave Levenson Voice: (201 | 908) 647 0900 Westmark, Inc. Internet: dave@westmark.uu.net Warren, NJ, USA UUCP: {uunet | rutgers | att}!westmark!dave [The Man in the Mooney] AT&T Mail: !westmark!dave ------------------------------ From: woody Subject: Re: More 800, 900 Curiosities Reply-To: djcl@contact.UUCP (David Leibold) Organization: Contact User Supported BBS Date: Sun, 18 Feb 90 02:01:45 GMT >Actually, 800-950 is just one of MCI's many 800 exchanges, nothing >special. I'm not exactly sure how MCI got all the good ones (950, >222, 444, etc.), but they, and not AT&T, get to decide what goes where >on 800-950. Does anyone have a list of all the exchanges that MCI has? Sprint, too? While on 800 curiosities, I might mention that British Telecom has their own "800" service, using the 0800 STD code for toll-free calls. There is also a 0345 code which is used to bill a call at local rates (which are not toll-free, but the pay-per-call deal as with a local call). Mexico also has an "800" code for toll-free numbers, accessed with their 91+ long distance code. Any other countries have an "800" or similar service yet (in contrast to "Zenith" or "Enterprise" type of services where you call an operator and ask for a special reverse billing number)? [Moderator's Note: The TELECOM Archives has just what you are looking for. Please refer to the file there called 'guide.to.area.codes'. One section of that file is a listing by prefix of who belongs to what 800 prefix, as of a year ago when the file was created. To reach the archives, use ftp as follows: 'ftp lcs.mit.edu'; login anonymous; give name@site.domain for your password; then 'cd telecom-archives'; then 'dir' to see the list of what is available. 'get INDEX.TO.ARCHIVES' will bring a copy of the archives directory back to your site. PT] ------------------------------ End of TELECOM Digest V10 #110 ******************************   Received: from delta.eecs.nwu.edu by mintaka.lcs.mit.edu id aa00934; 18 Feb 90 23:40 EST Received: from mailinglists.eecs.nwu.edu by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id aa09178; 18 Feb 90 21:58 CST Received: from mailinglists.eecs.nwu.edu by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id aa02596; 18 Feb 90 20:53 CST Date: Sun, 18 Feb 90 20:46:38 CST From: TELECOM Moderator [To]: telecom@eecs.nwu.edu Subject: TELECOM Digest V10 #111 BCC: Message-ID: <9002182046.ab28764@delta.eecs.nwu.edu> TELECOM Digest Sun, 18 Feb 90 20:45:11 CST Volume 10 : Issue 111 Today's Topics: Moderator: Patrick Townson Re: AT&T Behind Blocking of Japanese Business Phone Systems? (Steve Friedl) Re: AT&T Behind Blocking of Japanese Business Phone Systems? (John Higdon) Re: AT&T Behind Blocking of Japanese Business Phone Systems? (K. Denninger) Re: AT&T System 25 Experience Sought (Dave Levinson) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Friedl Subject: Re: AT&T Behind Blocking of Japanese Business Phone Systems? Date: 18 Feb 90 09:09:22 GMT Organization: Steve's Barnburner 386 In article <4022@accuvax.nwu.edu>, dwn@swbatl.swbt.com (4007) writes: > Can even AT&T compete (or stay in the market) against a competitor > that has the backing of a VERY rich national government? This might not be very fun for AT&T, but as a consumer I welcome it: Why should I refuse a gift from the Japanese taxpayer? Stephen J. Friedl, KA8CMY / Software Consultant / Tustin, CA / 3B2-kind-of-guy +1 714 544 6561 voice / friedl@vsi.com / {uunet,attmail}!mtndew!friedl "Winning the Balridge Quality Award is as easy as falling off a horse." - me ------------------------------ Reply-To: John Higdon Subject: Re: AT&T Behind Blocking of Japanese Business Phone Systems? Date: 18 Feb 90 01:29:10 PST (Sun) From: John Higdon 4007 writes: > There are a lot of barriers to U.S companies attempting to penetrate > the Japanese market, placed primarily by the Japanese gov't. In > general the reverse isn't (or hasn't) been true. In addition, there > is a significant amount of "partnering" between Japanese companies and > the Japanese gov't. Can even AT&T compete (or stay in the market) > against a competitor that has the backing of a VERY rich national > government? First, why does it matter what AT&T can or cannot do in Japan in order to compete in the United States? Second, what evidence is there that the pricing of the KX-T series equipment is being subsidized by the Japanese government? Do you take AT&T's word for it? Look at the hardware. Look at the components it's built from. It's very simple and from my quarter of a century experience in electronic equipment sales, design and packaging, I would say that it is priced about right. Now look at the Merlin. It, too, is simple. From the same experience, I would say that it sells for about 2 to 3 times what it should. > Is it fair that AT&T (or any other American company) > should have to compete against companies that can either over-charge a > private (home) market (to which market the American company is denied > access) in order to subsidize low prices here (even if said company > over-prices a different product at home), OR is it fair to the > American company to have to compete with a company that MAY (I do not > know this to be the case) be subsidized by the Japanese gov't? But if they don't even sell this particular product in their home market how can they overcharge????? If it's a different product, then the conversation is moot. How do you know AT&T isn't overcharging on its long distance service to undercut its products? (I know, at the prices they charge they couldn't possibly be undercutting; but the argument is as relevant as yours.) Nothing stops any company from overcharging in one area in order to undercut in another. Why pick on the Japanese? Why is AT&T the only company that seems to have so much trouble? (Hint: they're the only company that seems to be priced so stratospherically.) > What difference does it make whether the market for any one particular > item is only U.S. and Canada? What they stand to gain is a market for > KX-T that has only one supplier (them), and when that happens, do you > suppose that they will still sell the product below cost? Capitalism > only works to the benefit of consumers when the market is open to > honest and fair competition. Unfortunately, when organizations grow > large enough to control prices, it seems that many seek to lock up > their markets through various non-competitive practices, rather than > continue to strive for the best price/product/ service/performance > etc.. This is true of many American companies, as well as foreign > companies and governments. Since when has anyone suggested that Matsushita will drive away ALL the competition? Do you know how many companies and products are available in the US telecom marketplace? Obviously not to make such a naive statement. Do you realize how small the share of the telecom market Matsushita has? The big mistake Matsushita made was targeting customers of the great god AT&T and directly competing against the Merlin. My friend, Capitalism only works to the benefit of consumers when the market is open to honest and fair competition (is there an echo in here?). Pricing a product in the stratosphere and then suing a competitor who dares to offer a better product at a reasonable price does not fit my image of honest and fair competition. BTW, can you give me one single case where a Japanese company has done what you seem to fear? That is, vulture-priced the competition out of existence, then raised its prices to the detriment of its customers? Like VCRs, for example, most of which are made in Japan (none are made in the US) and have done nothing but drop in price since they were introduced? In short, AT&T filed its action because it didn't like competition. Defenders of AT&T's action have concocted all manner of unproved and unprovable "what ifs". Having dealt with the Japanese for some time now (if indirectly), I can say that they do play hardball. But can you imagine the crap that we American consumers would have foisted upon us if there hadn't been some competition from outside? What do you suppose got the US auto industry off its rear end? Oh, and another thing. US companies having a hard time selling things in Japan has less to do with the Japanese government regulations and more to do with not making anything the Japanese consumer wants to buy than you may realize. Where, for instance, Matsushita carefully sized up the North American market when designing the KX-T series equipment, most US firms put no effort into analyzing the Japanese market for their goods. "Hey, if it's good enough for Americans...." 'Nuff said... John Higdon | P. O. Box 7648 | +1 408 723 1395 john@bovine.ati.com | San Jose, CA 95150 | M o o ! ------------------------------ From: Karl Denninger Subject: Re: AT&T Behind Blocking of Japanese Business Phone Systems? Reply-To: Karl Denninger Organization: Macro Computer Solutions, Inc. - Mundelein, IL Date: Sun, 18 Feb 90 19:33:16 GMT In article <4022@accuvax.nwu.edu> David Neill-OKCy Mktg 405-278-4007 writes: >X-Telecom-Digest: Volume 10, Issue 109, message 4 of 6 >In article <4002@accuvax.nwu.edu> John Higdon writes: >X-Telecom-Digest: Volume 10, Issue 107, message 4 of 5 >>Kevin Blatter writes: >>> My conclusion on the Anti-dumping case was that, at face value. The >>> Japanese aren't interested in playing fair, they're interested in >>> marketshare and profits. >To which they openly admit. What's wrong with marketshare and profits? Note that they are interested in BOTH. You don't get profits by selling under your cost of production; you go broke! Obviously, since Panasonic has been making this kind of gear for many years (and is still doing so), they aren't going broke. Nor are they driving others from the market -- except for those with overpriced technology (ie: AT&T) >>Once again, with feeling. The KX-T series has no counterpart for sale >>anywhere in the world except North America. Dumping cannot be an issue >>when everyone is playing on the same field. The ONLY (O-N-L-Y) place >>the KX-T line is sold is here. If they're dumping it or selling it >>below cost, what do they have to gain? The hardware and firmware of >>the 308, 616, and 1232s was specifically engineered from the ground up >>for the US and Canada. Is that clear? >I'm not sure I follow this line of reasoning. In a capitalistic >market, the "big guys" can sell at a loss for a while, forcing the >"small guys" out. In this case, we might be talking about big guys >vs. big guys, but the gripe is this: >There are a lot of barriers to U.S companies attempting to penetrate >the Japanese market, placed primarily by the Japanese gov't. In >general the reverse isn't (or hasn't) been true. In addition, there >is a significant amount of "partnering" between Japanese companies and >the Japanese gov't. Can even AT&T compete (or stay in the market) >against a competitor that has the backing of a VERY rich national >government? Is it fair that AT&T (or any other American company) >should have to compete against companies that can either over-charge a >private (home) market (to which market the American company is denied >access) in order to subsidize low prices here (even if said company >over-prices a different product at home), OR is it fair to the >American company to have to compete with a company that MAY (I do not >know this to be the case) be subsidized by the Japanese gov't? The problem is how do you determine whether this is taking place? You speak of a home market with restrictions (the Japanese market). Have you done any research there lately? Do you know what you're talking about, or are you playing knee-jerk reactionary because they're the "big bad Japanese"? I wonder about AT&T's argument. I can tell you how well I suspect their Merlin systems (modified for Japanese telephone switching systems) would sell against the Japanese systems (Panasonic equivalent) given the current pricing of those very same Merlin's here! They wouldn't sell a single unit! Then again, look at what Panasonic and everyone else is doing to get around the bogus tariffs. They're opening plants in the US, using US workers, and STILL SELLING AT A LOWER PRICE. Of course now they're exempt from those tariffs since the products aren't imported anymore. And you know what? Those US plants are making a profit for the parent company, and slaughtering their US counterparts who are still working on the basis that they can charge whatever they want for their products instead of producing quality materials at a fair cost. So much for the dumping argument. Next we'll see AT&T and others try to put a tariff on the products being produced inside the US by these companies on the grounds that they are "dumping", even though it's clear from the filings of these firms that they're selling at well over the cost of production (in other words, they're making a nice healthy profit). >What difference does it make whether the market for any one particular >item is only U.S. and Canada? What they stand to gain is a market for >KX-T that has only one supplier (them), and when that happens, do you >suppose that they will still sell the product below cost? Capitalism >only works to the benefit of consumers when the market is open to >honest and fair competition. Unfortunately, when organizations grow >large enough to control prices, it seems that many seek to lock up >their markets through various non-competitive practices, rather than >continue to strive for the best price/product/ service/performance >etc.. This is true of many American companies, as well as foreign >companies and governments. Oh right, which is why the Southwestern Bell key system (which your company produces) is less expensive than the KXT line, even WITHOUT the tariffs. Of course (IMHO) it's shoddily manufactured, not as full-featured, and has a number of "features" you can't disable, in addition to not having a provision for the use of standard extensions. I used to work for a small (REAL SMALL) maker of control systems which were similar in complexity to the Panasonic Keyset switches (KXT line). They were single-board based, and controlled high power microwave equipment. The cost of a single board, to the CUSTOMER, was about $1k. This was on a quantity of production of oh, roughly 10-20 units per year, with all MANUAL assembly and testing! We did some investigation into reducing costs, and found that if we could sell 500-1000 of these units a year we could justify a insertion machine (no more hand assembly) and a wave soldering machine, as well as automated test equipment. The cost of the boards (blanks) would also drop appreciably at that level as well (cost of a blank at Q20 pricing was some $200 a blank; at Q100 pricing that same blank was well under $100!). In short, the economies of scale would have permitted a sale price of under $500 per unit had there been a market for 1000 units per year. There wasn't (and isn't), so it didn't happen, but it was an interesting exercise, and one which I remember well. >(this account) -> uunet!swbatl!dwn OR dwn@swbatl.swbt.com David Neill >office -> 405-278-4007 -> uunet!swbatl!oktext!mktco Mgr - Mktg.(SWBTCo) >home -> 405-749-1141 -> uunet!swbatl!oktext!frodo!david This is from the same Southwestern Bell, I assume, that is currently trying to force people who provide a free BBS on their personal telephone lines to pay business rates, even though they aren't a business. Karl Denninger (karl@ddsw1.MCS.COM, !ddsw1!karl) Public Access Data Line: [+1 708 566-8911], Voice: [+1 708 566-8910] Macro Computer Solutions, Inc. "Quality Solutions at a Fair Price" ------------------------------ From: Dave Levenson Subject: Re: AT&T System 25 Experience Sought Date: 18 Feb 90 14:26:04 GMT Organization: Westmark, Inc., Warren, NJ, USA In article <4000@accuvax.nwu.edu>, vances@xenitec.on.ca (Vance Shipley) writes: > In article <3745@accuvax.nwu.edu> tronix@.UUCP (David Daniel) writes: > >For that matter you'd do well to look into the SX-200 by Mitel which > >gives you all that the System 25 does and more: > The original posting stated that a requirement was CPC (Calling Party > Control) on the 2500 (analog single line) ports. Does the SX switch > do this? For that matter does the AT&T System 25 really do this? The original answer, as I once posted before, is that the System 25 does, in fact, generate a 500 msec open loop toward a tip/ring station when it is disconnecting a call. This occurs within a second or so after the forward disconnect is received from the CO on incoming trunk calls. How soon the CO sends this signal after the calling party disconnects depends upon the type of CO and the type of trunk circuit used. The Mitel SX200 does not pass this signal through to tip/ring stations. Dave Levenson Voice: (201 | 908) 647 0900 Westmark, Inc. Internet: dave@westmark.uu.net Warren, NJ, USA UUCP: {uunet | rutgers | att}!westmark!dave [The Man in the Mooney] AT&T Mail: !westmark!dave ------------------------------ End of TELECOM Digest V10 #111 ******************************   Received: from delta.eecs.nwu.edu by mintaka.lcs.mit.edu id aa02895; 19 Feb 90 0:41 EST Received: from mailinglists.eecs.nwu.edu by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id aa31278; 18 Feb 90 23:03 CST Received: from mailinglists.eecs.nwu.edu by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id ab09178; 18 Feb 90 21:58 CST Date: Sun, 18 Feb 90 21:30:39 CST From: TELECOM Moderator [To]: telecom@eecs.nwu.edu Subject: TELECOM Digest V10 #112 BCC: Message-ID: <9002182130.ab11875@delta.eecs.nwu.edu> TELECOM Digest Sun, 18 Feb 90 21:30:16 CST Volume 10 : Issue 112 Today's Topics: Moderator: Patrick Townson Re: Why DOES AT&T Behave The Way It Does? (John Higdon) Re: Why DOES AT&T Behave The Way It Does? (Dave Levenson) Re: Can I Be Charged to Have My Number Not Listed? (Steve Forrette) Re: Details on 201/908 Wanted (Dave Levenson) Re: 602 Area Code News (David Tamkin) Re: More 800, 900 Curiosities (Bob Hofkin) Re: Toll-Free But Not 800 (Robert Kaplan) Re: Book Review: Stallings: ISDN, An Introduction (David Daniel) Re: London Area Code Split (Scott Fybush) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Reply-To: John Higdon Subject: Re: Why DOES AT&T Behave The Way It Does? Date: 18 Feb 90 03:55:54 PST (Sun) From: John Higdon smb@ulysses.att.com writes: > I'm sorry you had a bad experience with AT&T; I've had just the > opposite fairly recently, and the folks involved did not even know > that I was an AT&T employee. As the one who started latest manifestation of the AT&T war, let me clear the air. I have not in the past nor am I likely in the future to engage in a general bash of AT&T. They are my primary long distance carrier. My gateway computer (zygot.ati.com) is gold-plate AT&T. I have recommended AT&T computers to clients. I own an AT&T 5500 cordless telephone. AT&T's service is the standard of the world, and they have the resources to *really* take care of customers. And I have never meant to imply that their telecom products were anything but first-rate, both in quality and in the manner that they are supported by their vendor. But in the matter of the tariff relief sought against various other manufacturers, I feel that AT&T was wrong. No, not really wrong, but consistent with the actions of a firm that was not used to the world of competition. AT&T is an unbeliveably vast corporation, and its directors are used to getting their corporate way in any manner possible. If that means capitalizing on the current anti-Japanese mood circulating in our government agencies, then so be it. AT&T exists to make a profit and to enrich its stockholders, not to look after the welfare of its customers, potential and actual. Seeking tariff relief was an option deemed beneficial to the company's profit structure and was not made with considerations as to the possible harm or benefit of the market in general. It is amusing that those who defend this course of action tend to prop up their position by pointing out that long term harm would come to the market, customers and vendors alike, if AT&T had not taken this action. The reality is that AT&T did whatever it thought best to benefit AT&T, nothing more, nothing less. My belief is that in time, AT&T will become a real player in the telecom market. It will learn how to compete and will give the industry a run for its money. This will come about as those in charge learn that tricks such as the tariff thing bring temporary relief at best. (What fancy maneuver will AT&T try when its off-shore competitors start producing wares in the US? Import duties and tariffs won't work!) I'm hoping that its next bombshell will be a killer product at an affordable price. Now wouldn't that be innovation! John Higdon | P. O. Box 7648 | +1 408 723 1395 john@bovine.ati.com | San Jose, CA 95150 | M o o ! ------------------------------ From: Dave Levenson Subject: Re: Why DOES AT&T Behave The Way It Does? Date: 18 Feb 90 14:23:17 GMT Organization: Westmark, Inc., Warren, NJ, USA In article <3999@accuvax.nwu.edu>, roy@phri.nyu.edu (Roy Smith) writes: > It would also appear that they havn't yet figured out that > they are dealing with customers other than captive local Bell telcos. > Let me tell you a longish story about AT&T marketing. What followed was a long but to me, very believable, story about Roy's attempt to buy a piece of telephone hardware from AT&T. > ... No problem, just get an adaptor, right? > Really makes you wonder how AT&T stays in business. Maybe > Judge Green was right after all, lack of competition is bad. I recently had a similar experience trying to buy from AT&T. This article probably belongs in another newsgroup, but Roy's story sounds so similar, I thought I'd relate it here. I bought a PC and I wanted software for it. The PC is a '386 and the software I wanted was UNIX System V/386! Why did I want to buy it from AT&T? I don't know... the folks at Interactive and at SCO keep sending me advertisements and special offers for their software. Problem is that I have a significant investment in StarLAN hardware, so I want AT&T UNIX with the StarGROUP package that supports this network. I called the AT&T Data Systems hotline (the number comes with the manuals that come with their computer systems) to ask about ordering UNIX. They can't tell me the price or the comcode, but they can give me a PEC (price element code). There are several variations, but the one we eventually agree on represents the foundation set for 16 users, packaged with the software development set, on 5.25" diskette media. National Parts Sales Center can't look it up by PEC and wants comcode numbers. They refer me to another number where they translate PEC numbers into comcode numbers. The PEC for UNIX turns into five or so comcodes (one for manuals, one for diskettes, one for another set of diskettes, etc). The PEC for StarGROUP turns into another comcode. Back to National Parts Sales, now armed with comcodes. They tell me that the comcode I've requested is not available. (The number you have dialed is not in service?) They want to know where I got if from. I tell the NPSC representative how I got the comcodes, and they tell me I wasn't supposed to get it that way. They now ask for the PEC and begin some kind of a database search. Eventually they tell me they've found what I'm after. The number is a new one, the description is "UNIX System V", and the price is $20. I tell them I don't think it's what I want, but they have no further descriptive information available. (UNIX should cost about $600 or so without the development set.) Parts then refers me back to the data systems hotline (which is where I came in). A different person there listens to my story and gives me the UNIX hotline number. The folks at this hotline turn out to be the folks who sell a source license to folks who want to port UNIX to a new hardware platform. When they discover that I only want to run it on an already-supported hardware product, they're not interested, but provide another 800 number. At this number, they ask for my zip-code. They provide the names of three AT&T computer dealers in nearby places. One dealer's telephone is answered by a machine. It's been over six weeks, and he hasn't returned either of my two calls. A second dealer tells me that they mostly only sell AT&T products to Bell Labs, but they _think_ they're allowed to sell to the public, if I know exactly what I want! I offer them comcodes and PECs and they'll get back to me. A third dealer tells me that the guy who knows about UNIX left, and that they have a special this week on IBM PS/2 equipment... The second dealer (a retail computer store in a nearby shopping center) gets back to me, and tells me that they'll order the software if I give them a deposit. I dropped by the store, and gave the man a check. A week later, they call me to say the order has arrived. They handed me a little box. I told them that UNIX includes several cubic feet of manuals, and some diskettes. They point to the PEC, scribbled on the outside of the box in magic-marker, and tell me that it's what I ordered. When I protest, they call their distributor. He rattles off a list of the five comcodes I had gotten weeks ago from the hotline I wasn't supposed to call. The box turns out to be one of them. I refuse the delivery. Finally, last week, the order arrived. Eight weeks since the initial call. Dave Levenson Voice: (201 | 908) 647 0900 Westmark, Inc. Internet: dave@westmark.uu.net Warren, NJ, USA UUCP: {uunet | rutgers | att}!westmark!dave [The Man in the Mooney] AT&T Mail: !westmark!dave ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Feb 90 14:37:51 PST From: Steve Forrette Subject: Re: Can I Be Charged to Have My Number Not Listed? Organization: University of California, Berkeley In article <4010@accuvax.nwu.edu> John Higdon writes: >"Are you receiving >the San Jose Mercury all right?" "Yes, yes, I am." Then it hit me: >this was a boiler room simply soliciting and to top it all off, they >didn't even have a subscriber list. This approach was their way of >gracefully exiting when they hit a subscriber. Yes, this is quite a common way for newspapers to solicit. Since I figured this out a few years ago, I always answer "yes", even if it's a paper I don't take - nobody has ever questioned this. My favorite story is when the Sacramento Bee (a *morning* paper) called one *evening* and asked "Are you currently receiving The Bee?". My answer: "No, but I get it in the mornings..." ------------------------------ From: Dave Levenson Subject: Re: Details on 201/908 Wanted Date: 18 Feb 90 00:01:24 GMT Organization: Westmark, Inc., Warren, NJ, USA In article <3955@accuvax.nwu.edu>, QUAGS@sbu.edu (Douglas Quagliana) writes: > Does anyone know how I can find out if a current 201 phone number > will remain in 201 or if it will be switched to 908? Does anyone have > a listing by prefixes or zip code of the effected numbers? You can probably try dialing the 908 number now. If your call goes through, then the destination is being switched to 908. If it doesn't, it will probably remain in 201. This experiment should probably be run after confirming that some 908 numbers can be reached from wherever you're calling from. 908-647 is known to be valid. I'm not sure the line coincides with zip-code boundaries. > Any details on the actual switch over date?? Permissive dialing, allowing both 201 and 908 into the affected areas is available now. Publication of the change is scheduled for June 1990, with the published "effective date" to be stated as 1/1/91. Calls into the affected area will continue to be completed using 201 until June of 1991. Dave Levenson Voice: (201 | 908) 647 0900 Westmark, Inc. Internet: dave@westmark.uu.net Warren, NJ, USA UUCP: {uunet | rutgers | att}!westmark!dave [The Man in the Mooney] AT&T Mail: !westmark!dave ------------------------------ From: David Tamkin Subject: Re: 602 Area Code News Date: Sat, 17 Feb 90 18:51:58 CST Reply-To: point!dattier@ddsw1.uucp Guy Finney announces in TELECOM Digest, Volume 10, Issue 105: | We've been told this week that 602 is running out of prefixes pretty | quickly, what with the boom in cellular, paging, etc. US West's | request for a new area code has been denied, so soon we'll get to dial | 1-602-xxx-xxxx for all in-state toll calls where we had been dialing | 1-xxx-xxxx before. Sigh. Is the implication that N0X and N1X will now be used in Arizona? In 1988 Colorado and Massachusetts (and perhaps Florida) had splits without giving up NNX. I have visited Arizona twice in my life, both times to visit friends in Mesa (a suburb to the east of Phoenix). In February, 1987, a call to Glendale (a western suburb of Phoenix) required seven digits. The following November it was necessary to dial 1-NNX-XXXX to reach Glendale. Truly a leap backward. As long as 1+ is required on calls to other area codes, one would think that all in-state calling, toll or not, could be seven digits unambiguously. David W. Tamkin dattier@point.UUCP ...{ddsw1,obdient!vpnet}!point!dattier BIX: dattier GEnie: D.W.TAMKIN CIS: 73720,1570 (708) 518-6769 (312) 693-0591 P. O. Box 813 Rosemont, Illinois 60018-0813 All other point users disagree. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Feb 90 01:06 EST From: Bob Hofkin Subject: Re: More 800, 900 Curiosities Media General Cable just set up a "special 6-digit phone number" to order pay-per-view movies in my area. The number is given as 103-800. There's a DTMF response unit on the other end. I've experimented a little. If I dial a phone number (either 10380-0-NPA-NXX-XXXX or 10380-1-NPA-NXX-XXXX), I get a recording that "the long distance company you have selected is unable to complete your call at this time." They have an exception for 10380-1-800-555-1212, which gets an intercept "your call cannot be completed with the access code you dialed." ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Feb 90 15:11:35 -0500 From: Robert Kaplan Subject: Re: Toll-Free But Not 800 Not only won't 617-230 work (apparently) from COCOTs, but Brandeis University has no idea that the exchange exists...dialing 9+230-xxxx produces a recorded message...and there's no other way to direct-dial the number from here. Since it's Sunday, there are no Brandeis operators to talk to, either. I'm trying to find out what other exchanges make our phone system do that. (I suppose 9+1-508-230-xxxx+access code *might* work, but I'm not going to wait a month to find out.) Scott Fybush Disclaimer: This may not even be my own opinion. ------------------------------ From: tronix@polari.UUCP (David Daniel) Subject: Re: Book Review: Stallings: ISDN, An Introduction Date: 18 Feb 90 21:05:24 GMT Reply-To: tronix@.UUCP (David Daniel) Organization: PolarServ, Seattle WA This book is also available from Telecom Library, Inc. 12 West 21st St. NY, NY, 10010 1-800-LIBRARY $45.95 plus shipping I have it on order now, and am glad to hear it'd the kind of book I was looking for. "What's so funny 'bout peace, love & understanding?" Elvis Costello ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Feb 90 15:17:19 -0500 From: Robert Kaplan Subject: Re: London Area Code Split With the 071/081 split only a few months away, there hasn't been much publicity about it in England. A friend who is at Oxford just wrote to me that he has seen nothing about it in the eight months he's been there, and that in fact he wouldn't have known it was happening if I hadn't told him. That sounds pretty incredible, especially given that the split will take place with no grace period at all! There will be a lot of very confused British people one morning in May...not to mention international dialers the morning after the switch takes place. Scott Fybush Disclaimer: This may not even be my own opinion. [Moderator's Note: Illinois Bell's recent 708/312 split comes to mind. For how many ever months and years prior to the event Illinois Bell promoted the event, they might as well have done nothing at all. They had a contest, awarding $708 (first prize) or $312 (second prize). They had full page newspaper announcements daily for a month before. They had notices in every telephone bill for a year. There were at least a dozen newspaper stories during the year before the split. Yet -- yet, they were swamped with calls the Monday following the weekend cutover from customers who claimed *they had never even heard about it!*. How could the fools have missed it? It blared from every radio and television for weeks before. A major department store in Chicago with branch stores scattered throughout 708-land had their credit bureau terminals off line all day that Saturday and the following Monday because no one bothered to re-program them to dial *1-312* before the number of the credit bureau....and that, after a period of months in which permissive dialing would have permitted ease in programming. So the Monday following, none of us who can read and write English and listen to the radio at least once a day could reach the operator for anything else: all operator positions -- including a hundred operators brought in on their day off -- were busy telling people the same thing the recorded intercept was telling them: You must dial 1-708 (1-312) first! Never underestimated the stupidity of people. PT] ------------------------------ End of TELECOM Digest V10 #112 ******************************   Received: from delta.eecs.nwu.edu by mintaka.lcs.mit.edu id aa08910; 19 Feb 90 3:43 EST Received: from mailinglists.eecs.nwu.edu by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id aa02973; 19 Feb 90 2:08 CST Received: from mailinglists.eecs.nwu.edu by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id aa11083; 19 Feb 90 1:04 CST Date: Mon, 19 Feb 90 0:59:32 CST From: TELECOM Moderator [To]: telecom@eecs.nwu.edu Subject: TELECOM Digest V10 #113 BCC: Message-ID: <9002190059.ab08671@delta.eecs.nwu.edu> TELECOM Digest Mon, 19 Feb 90 00:59:03 CST Volume 10 : Issue 113 Today's Topics: Moderator: Patrick Townson "Sorry, We Show No Matamoros in Mexico." (Paul Fuqua) Modem Protocol Information (Jeffrey M. Schweiger) ABC TV Feed Via Phone Number in NYC (Steve Huff) EDI Information (John Bryant) Collecting Info About Physician Networks Worldwide (Donald Parsons) Re: Caller ID (NOT another flame!) (Robert Kaplan) Re: Caller ID (NOT Another Flame!) (David Lewis) Re: Hacker Group Accused of Scheme Against BellSouth (Kim Greer) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 18 Feb 90 16:44:14 CST From: Paul Fuqua Subject: "Sorry, We Show No Matamoros in Mexico." In the February 8 issue of the Dallas Morning News, columnist Bob St. John tells some stories about his telephonic adventures while staying on South Padre Island. (For the geographically ignorant, that's on the far southern tip of Texas. Nearby cities are Brownsville, Texas, and Matamoros, Mexico, across the river from each other.) In the first story, he calls the operator from South Padre to help him find the number of a restaurant in Matamoros. He spells out the name of the city, and the operator informs that she has no Matamoros listed and asks what large city it is near. Only thing is, Matamoros has maybe 240,000 people, and cities are near it, not the other way around. Neither a supervisor nor a foreign operator was able to find a listing for Matamoros, not even when Mr. St. John called later. Another time, he tried 13 times over one week to call numbers in Irving, a suburb of Dallas, but the calls never went through, and again no one could figure out the problem. Eventually, he settled for calling a friend in Dallas, who would call the person in Irving, who would call South Padre on Mr. St. John's phone card. For a finale, there was a period of a couple of weeks where his phone card would be valid one day and invalid the next, and his American Express card would be accepted for phone charges one day but not the next. Sometimes the valid/invalid interval would be less than an hour. One good thing, though: an operator came on after the card was rejected, and she knew where Matamoros was. Paul Fuqua pf@csc.ti.com {smu,texsun,cs.utexas.edu,rice}!ti-csl!pf Texas Instruments Computer Science Center PO Box 655474 MS 238, Dallas, Texas 75265 ------------------------------ From: "Jeffrey M. Schweiger" Subject: Modem Protocol Information Date: 19 Feb 90 01:23:23 GMT Reply-To: "Jeffrey M. Schweiger" Organization: Naval Postgraduate School, Monterey CA In conjuction with a class in Computer Networks that I'm taking, I'm researching protocols used with modems. I have a couple of questions that I thought that readers of Telecom Digest might be able to help with: 1. Can someone point me in the right direction for the technical specifications for the various modem protocols in common use over phone lines (i.e., Bell 103 for 300bps, Bell 212A for 1200bps, CCITT V.22 for 1200bps, V.22bis for 2400bps, V.32, V.42, etc). I'm interested in the description of what modulation/keying is used, as well as carrier frequency, and encoding method. 2. I've seen it mentioned that the max data rate over voice grade line is basically capable of is 2400 baud, but have not found a reference for how this number is determined. A pointer to an appropriate reference here would also be appreciated, along with similar references for what the various grades of telecommunications lines are (T1, etc.). I've browsed through the Telecom Archives a couple of times, so if the information I'm looking for is there, I've managed to miss it and probably could use specific directions :-) ******************************************************************************* Jeff Schweiger CompuServe: 74236,1645 Standard Disclaimer ARPAnet (Defense Data Network): schweige@cs.nps.navy.mil ******************************************************************************* [Moderator's Note: Actually, what we have regarding modems in the archives is very skimpy; the reason being 'comp.dcom.modems' is a more likely place to seek this sort of information, and I believe there is a Digest publication which accompanies that newsgroup just as there is here in comp.dcom.telecom. I don't know if there is a 'modem archives' or not. I'm sure if someone here can answer your question they will, but you might also post in comp.dcom.modems asking for more details. PT] ------------------------------ From: "Steve Huff, U. of Kansas, Lawrence" Subject: ABC TV Feed Via Phone Number in NYC Date: 18 Feb 90 21:02:51 CST Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services Years ago I had a phone number in NYC that allowed you to listen to the feed from ABC TV. Does anybody know if this number still exists, and more importantly, what it is? Thanks. Please reply via e-mail. Anybody for biz.entrepreneur? Steve Huff Internet: HUFF@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu Bitnet: HUFF@ukanvax.BITNET EmCon: K1TR or KW02 (If you have access, please say so!) ------------------------------ From: John Bryant Subject: EDI Information Date: 17 Feb 90 16:50:47 GMT Organization: The Black Cat's Shack, Gaithersburg, MD 301-590-3994 There is a massive problem underway at the NIST (the old Bur. of Standards in Washington DC). You may wish to call them about EDI. Also, there is a very fine "industry group" called the EDI Association in Washingtion DC that specializes in EDI issues, lobbying, education events, and consulting. I have used them. They are good. At this minutes, I do not have their phone number, but you can get it by calling Washington area information and asking for phone number of EDIA either in DC or VA. They also help and discuss the international issues of EDIFACT standards. John Bryant at The Black Cat's Shack (Fidonet 1:109/401) Internet: John.Bryant@blkcat.fidonet.org UUCP: ...!uunet!blkcat!John.Bryant [Moderator's Note: What is the exact nature of the 'massive problem'? Can you give us more details? PT] ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Feb 90 09:00:14 EST From: Donald Parsons Subject: Collecting Info About Physician Networks Worldwide A group of us a preparing a recommendation on a US physicians consulting network. Any info about existing operations will be appreciated. Send replies not only to this list but a copy to me (if you dont mind). Thanks DFP Donald F. Parsons MD. PhD, Wadsworth Center Labs. & Res., NY State Dept Health, Empire State Plaza, Albany, NY 12201. (518) 474-7047. 150 Mosher Rd, Delmar, NY 12054. (518) 439-0049. Bitnet: dfp10@albnyvm1. Internet: dfp10@uacsc2.albany.edu. Compuserve:71777,212 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< ************** >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Feb 90 02:51:11 -0500 From: Robert Kaplan Subject: Re: Caller ID (NOT another flame!) Maybe I'm just not as suspicious as the average Digest reader, but I think that if I had caller ID in whatever form, I'd still find it nearly useless. After all, if the screen shows a number [or a name, or whatever] that I don't know, it's as likely to be someone calling me from a payphone somewhere as it is a life-insurance salesman. In other words, I'll answer my phone no matter who may be calling. The one practical use I can think of is preventing me from answering calls for my roommate, or vice versa. Nevertheless, I suspect that as caller ID comes into broader use, we'll find that it's not as useful as we think it will be. (And of course it'll never appear here at Brandeis anyway :-)...) Scott Fybush Disclaimer: This may not even be my own opinion. ------------------------------ From: David Lewis Subject: Re: Caller ID (NOT Another Flame!) Date: 18 Feb 90 17:20:44 GMT Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ In article <3966@accuvax.nwu.edu>, comcon!roy@uunet.uu.net (Roy M. Silvernail) writes: > In article <3841@accuvax.nwu.edu>, ames!ames!claris!portal!cup.portal.com! > fleming@uunet.uu.net writes: > > Why aren't the BOCs rushing to offer this (calling name delivery) > > as a solution? > > Simple... Judge Greene won't let them. Running a phone number through > > a database and flashing an associated ASCII string onto your screen > > qualifies as an information-processing service, and that's a no-no. > I haven't studied the break-up too closely, but it would seem this is > an ideal opportunity for a symbiotic service. Couldn't the private > sector produce a company to service this information-processing? And > wouldn't that be seperate from the BOC itself? Yes, but... Consider a telco which decides to do this. First of all, it's not clear that a telco could enter into contractual arrangements with a single information provider to provide this service. If Telco XYZ signs a contract with company A to provide this information service, you can bet that companies B, C, and D will be appealing to the Court, the DOJ, and the FCC that this is in contravention of the MFJ, Computer Inquiry 3, and probably the seventh Commandment. But, let's say for the sake of argument that the various governmental bodies allow this to take place in some way. You now have a situation where the telco, in the course of call setup, is sending a query to a third party and receiving back information which it will send during call setup. This is not a thing telcos like to do. Once a connection is established you can play around however you like -- but letting some other party have a potential impact on call setup makes telco execs and engineers very, very nervous. (note -- we're talking basic intra-LATA calls for now. Inter-LATA calls are a slightly different case -- but the fact still holds to a great deal; once the call comes into the telco's hands, they want to keep all the factors affecting call setup in their control.) Imagine what happens if the third party database goes down, or is overloaded, or (heaven forbid) is inaccurate. The service no longer works as advertised, and if it's not designed to gracefully handle the failure of a query, POTS no longer works quite right... And this doesn't even get into the point I raised up top about exclusivity of information providers. Chances are awfully good IMHO that a telco would *not* be permitted to enter into an exclusive contract with an information provider to provide this service -- which means there would be potentially multiple information providers, all of whom can have an impact on call setup. The telco would be obligated to provide the calling party ID on an open interface and accept back the calling party name on an open interface. (In fact, I haven't checked out any Regional Company's ONA (Open Network Architecture) filings lately, but I suspect one or more may have this in there -- and if they don't, I strongly suspect information providers want it.) Then you get into things like information provider selection -- whose database gets queried on a given call, one I subscribe to, one my caller subscribes to, or some other choice -- billing for information, charging for information... Gosh, I love this industry. It promises such a high level of employment for engineers, lawyers, policy analysts... David G Lewis ...!bellcore!nvuxr!deej (@ Bellcore Navesink Research & Engineering Center) "If this is paradise, I wish I had a lawnmower." ------------------------------ From: klg@dukeac.UUCP (Kim Greer) Subject: Re: Hacker Group Accused of Scheme Against BellSouth Date: 18 Feb 90 12:12:27 GMT Reply-To: klg@dukeac.UUCP (Kim Greer) Organization: Academic Computing, Duke University, Durham, NC In article <3822@accuvax.nwu.edu> wmartin@stl-06sima.army.mil (Will Martin) writes: X-Telecom-Digest: Volume 10, Issue 98, message 1 of 8 >Riggs is accused of stealing the 911 control and maintenance program >and publishing it on an otherwise-unspecified "hackers' computer >bulletin board in Lockport, IL." The pair are charged with interstate >transportation of stolen property, wire fraud and violation of the >Computer Fraud and Abuse Act of 1986. >What struck me when I first heard about this was confusion -- what >good is and why would anybody be interested in the software that runs >the 911 system, and what is so bad about having that software >published? Unless you have access to the computers that run the 911 >system, knowing about the details of the controlling software doesn't >help you "take over" the system. Why don't you ask Robert Morris if he had "access" to the 6000 computers he has been convicted of crashing on the Internet. This bit of trashing was done through software. Maybe there is not a way for someone to interact with the computers, except through the legitimate operators. Maybe there is. With computers so inter-connected these days, there may very well be back doors into the "911 computer". These could easily be mail (again, ask Robert Morris about this one) ethernet links or serial connections between the machines. I would not like to think there are geeks with an 11 year old mentality (with apologies to sensible 11 year olds) going around trying to disrupt systems on which peoples lives and property depend. >system, knowing about the details of the controlling software doesn't >help you "take over" the system. Knowing how to make bombs that explode and kill people doesn't imply that a person with that knowledge is going to make a bomb...but it sure does raise a flag. But, you say, this example is too far removed from the 911 software theft. Ok, instead of a 911 system, consider a hospital information system, on which data is stored for current and past patients. Changing a few numbers or words here and there could result in a disaster for some sick person. Change an xray report from "Summary: tumor in right upper lobe" to "Summary: normal" and you may cost someone their life, unless the "error" is caught in time. And then there are lab reports, where one is dealing with hundreds of values over a weeks time, just waiting to be changed. "Ah yes, Mr. Jones, your blood pressure is back to normal, you can go home now". While this post of mine has strayed from telecom somewhat, and is probably more appropriate for comp.risks, I don't think anyone should just ignore this 911 tampering (or rather, theft, since thats what it was). Curiosity is a good thing in my opinion. But we must remember that there are some things which do not "belong" to us (the software in this case). We, the general public have no right to play around with other peoples things (computers or telephones or whatever) just to satisfy our curiosity. And certainly no right to use this knowledge to putz around with systems where lives are literally in the balance. Kim Greer Duke University Medical Center klg@orion.mc.duke.edu [Moderator's Note: Thank you for raising this point in response to Mr. Martin's original comments. I'm sure there are many people -- less than honorable citizens to be sure -- who would *love* to be able to manipulate 911 to meet their requirements. If I were a rapist, a burglar, a home-invader or whatever, it would warm my heart to know that if you caught me and dialed 911, you'd reach some phreak playing with his telephone instead of the police. If I knew that could be done, I'd probably bribe some phreak to turn off 911 in your neighborhood before I set out for my nightly prowls. Yes Kim, 911 software must be kept secure and unmolested. The fellows charged with the theft, if they are guilty -- and the Court will rule, not the Moderator, should have the proverbial book thrown at them. It was a serious offense. PT] ------------------------------ End of TELECOM Digest V10 #113 ******************************   Received: from delta.eecs.nwu.edu by mintaka.lcs.mit.edu id aa01303; 20 Feb 90 4:08 EST Received: from mailinglists.eecs.nwu.edu by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id aa09096; 20 Feb 90 2:23 CST Received: from mailinglists.eecs.nwu.edu by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id aa04562; 20 Feb 90 1:17 CST Date: Tue, 20 Feb 90 1:11:32 CST From: TELECOM Moderator [To]: telecom@eecs.nwu.edu Subject: TELECOM Digest V10 #114 BCC: Message-ID: <9002200111.ab03965@delta.eecs.nwu.edu> TELECOM Digest Tue, 20 Feb 90 01:105:31 CST Volume 10 : Issue 114 Today's Topics: Moderator: Patrick Townson Re: AT&T Valentine's Day Discount Not Quite-So-Useful (Bryan Richardson) Re: Dallas Area Code Split (Doug Davis) Re: Prevalence of 10xxx Dialing (David Tamkin) Re: Cancel Call Waiting (Danial Hamilton) Re: ABC TV Feed Via Phone Number in NYC (Blake Farenthold) Re: More 800, 900 Curiosities (Robert Gutierrez) Re: More 800, 900 Curiosities (David Leibold) Re: Recordings For Intra-LATA 10xxx Attempts (Robert Gutierrez) Re: London 071 081 Split (Mike Warrington) Re: London 071 081 Split (John Pettitt) Re: The Perennial Question (Edward S. Sachs) Re: Why DOES AT&T Behave The Way They Do? (David Lesher) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "bryan.m.richardson" Subject: Re: AT&T Valentine's Day Discount Not Quite-So-Useful Date: 19 Feb 90 19:17:11 GMT Reply-To: "bryan.m.richardson,ih," Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories In article <3949@accuvax.nwu.edu> rsk@boulder.colorado.edu (Rich Kulawiec) writes: >For a couple of hours tonight, while I was trying to take advantage of >the reduced AT&T rates, I continually reached a recording which said >(paraphrased) "Due to heavy Valentine's Day traffic, your call can't >be completed at this time. AT&T values your business, and invites you >to try your call again later." Internal AT&T network information indicates that traffic over Valentine's day was 1% higher than normal (The preceeding Wednesday). The network is engineered, however, for the business day, and not the evening traffic, which is perhaps why you had problems getting through. Bryan Richardson AT&T Bell Laboratories ------------------------------ From: Doug Davis Subject: Re: Dallas Area Code Split Date: 19 Feb 90 04:15:42 GMT Reply-To: doug@letni.lonestar.org Organization: Logic Process Dallas, Texas. >I'm a bit puzzled as to how it could possibly be an issue: all of >Denton County except a very small bit of the southeast corner is in >Area Code 817. That is mostly correct. >The only part that is in 214 is all local to Dallas, >and should therefore all be remaining in 214, if I recall correctly. Yes & No. Enough of it isn't "local to Dallas" that will be effected by the 214/903 split for GTE. At the time I was dealing with this it was "under discussion". >Or is this something like Lewisville? (Is it Denton Co.?) Yes, Yes. I haven't been able to get a firm answer from anyone at SWB or GTE about the border line between 214 & 903. When I do I will let the Digest know. Doug Davis/4409 Sarazen/Mesquite Texas, 75150/214-270-9226 {texsun, motown!sys1, uiucuxc!sys1 lawnet, attctc, texbell} letni!doug "Well, that was a piece of cake, eh K-9?" "Piece of cake, Master? Radial slice of baked confection ... coefficient of relevance to Key of Time: zero." ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Feb 90 19:18 CST From: David Tamkin Reply-To: point!dattier@ddsw1.uucp Subject: Re: Prevalence of 10xxx Dialing Organization: Chinet - Chicago Public Access UNIX In article <3886@accuvax.nwu.edu> Joel B. Levin wrote: | >104-441-700-TALK-121 | Looks like a new way to avoid 900 blocking to me. Nothing new about it. Allnet has been advertising this talk line since 1987. The number used to be 10444-1-700-777-7777; their commercials said to dial "one oh four, four forty-one, seven hundred, and seven sevens" in those days. David Tamkin P.O Box 813 Rosemont, Illinois 60018-0813 | BIX: dattier dattier@chinet.chi.il.us (708) 518-6769 (312) 693-0591 | GEnie: D.W.TAMKIN No two Chinet users agree about this (or anything else). | CIS: 73720,1570 ------------------------------ From: Danial Hamilton Subject: Re: Cancel Call Waiting Date: 19 Feb 90 21:53:37 GMT Organization: Motorola Inc. - Cellular Infrastructure Div., Arlington Hgts, IL jst@cca.ucsf.edu (Joe Stong) writes: >I know about *70 to cancel call waiting before making a call in >Pac*Bell land, but is there any way to turn it off indefinitely? >[Moderator's Note: I suppose if you could have your answering machine >pick up the line for an incoming call; simulate a switchhook flash; >send *70 over the line; flash the hook again, and *then* start its >outgoing announcement to the caller you'd have what you are looking >for. ... PT] Will this really work? I always preface my outward dialing from my PC with *70, but have often wondered how to disable call waiting when the PC is set up to receive incoming calls. What the moderator describes sounds like something a smart modem could be told to do. [Moderator's Note: The only way you can suspend call waiting on an incoming call (or a call in progress in either direction) is if you have three way calling in addition to call waiting. Three way gives you a legitimate reason for flashing in the middle of a call; use the dial tone thus recovered to dial *70 rather than a new third number. It should click in and immediatly return you to the (one) call in progress. PT] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Feb 90 20:18:42 CST From: Blake Farenthold Subject: Re: ABC TV Feed Via Phone Number in NYC HUFF@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu (Steve Huff, U. of Kansas, Lawrence) Writes: >Years ago I had a phone number in NYC that allowed you to listen to >the feed from ABC TV. Does anybody know if this number still exists, >and more importantly, what it is? Thanks. I don't know about the ABC number but back when (late 70's) my step-father worked at the CBS Affiliate here in Corpus Christi (How many TELECOM readers have heard about channel 10 in Corpus? Its rather infamous around Texas), they had a number to dial up audio for CBS. I remember their using it when the audio portion of their microwave feed died. Several radio stations I worked for had numbers to dial into the ABC Radio network feed when our "broadcast quality" leased line died. It seems like most radio and TV networks would have this sort of thing as a backup and I doubt they'd want the numbers to get out to non- affiliates who would busy out the lines when they are most needed. Lots of radio stations also have numbers you can dial into and hear what they have on the air. Several stations I worked for had a line the stations national "programming consultant" could call into to hear what was on the air. When I was DJing I'd go lift the pair off of the punch board in the phone room.. I never liked radio consultants, especially when they were checking up on me. Many years ago one of the radio trades published some stations numbers. I ran up several hundred dollars of phone bills listining to the biggies. Audio feeds from the networks (or from major market stations) seem like a cheap source of programming for a 1-900 number... If you decide to do it I want 10% as the idea man. >Please reply via e-mail. Oooops.. Well I thought other readers might be interested ... or the "ham" in me is re-surfacing after 5 years out of radio. UUCP: ...!crash!pnet01!pro-party!blake ARPA: crash!pnet01!pro-party!blake@nosc.mil INET: blake@pro-party.cts.com Blake Farenthold | Voice: 800/880-1890 | MCI: BFARENTHOLD 1200 MBank North | Fax: 512/889-8686 | CIS: 70070,521 Corpus Christi, TX 78471 | BBS: 512/882-1899 | GEnie: BLAKE ------------------------------ From: Robert Gutierrez Subject: Re: More 800, 900 Curiosities Date: 20 Feb 90 05:06:40 GMT Reply-To: Robert Gutierrez Organization: NASA ARC rmadison@euler.berkeley.edu (Linc Madison) writes: > I recently saw two (N00) numbers advertised on TV which caught my > attention. > The second was Sports Illustrated, with the number to dial for > subscriptions listed as 1-800-950-2288. Apparently the use of the 950 > prefix for non-telcos is happening in 1-800 as well as in "real" NPAs. 800-950 'belongs' to MCI. This is one of their assigned 800 prefixes until the national 800-database-routing plan is implemented. It's intresting in that 800-950 was only going to be used for MCI's accesses to switches (as in calling cards) since it was a '950' prefix, but they soon ran out of 800 numbers to assign, and had to start using the 950 prefix for 'regular' 800 numbers. My 800 number at my desk (at MCI) started with 800-950. Robert Gutierrez - NASA Science Internet Network Operations. Moffett Field, California "Home of the first N0X prefix in the Bay Area (604)." ------------------------------ Subject: Re: More 800, 900 Curiosities Date: Sun, 18 Feb 90 20:38:54 EST From: woody A while ago, I called an 800 number that told me that the number could not be called, but suggested I try 1 800 888.1800 for assistance. (This was dialed from 416 area code, and I think it worked from 519 as well). Well, I would try 1 800 888.1800 only to get the recording (from MCI presumably) that the call could not be completed. The recording then suggested for assistance that 1 800 888.1800 be dialed for further assistance. Something of an infinite loop here :-) In the wrong hands, trying this out could cause a network jam... This recursive recording is no more, alas. || David Leibold//djcl@contact.uucp//(backup: david.leibold@canremote.uucp) || "The trouble with normal is it always gets worse" - Bruce Cockburn ------------------------------ From: Robert Gutierrez Subject: Re: Recordings For Intra-LATA 10xxx Attempts Date: 20 Feb 90 04:41:03 GMT Reply-To: Robert Gutierrez Organization: NASA ARC stiatl!pda@gatech.edu (Paul D. Anderson) writes: > tom@sje.mentor.com (Tom Ace @ PCB x2021) writes: > >Here in 408 land, if I try to specify a particular carrier for an > >intra-LATA call with 10xxx, the wording of the recording I get is curious > > "We're sorry, it is not necessary to dial a long distance company > > access code for the number you have dialed. Please hang up and try > > your call again." > Same happens here in Atlanta (404 land). This recently was a sore point for Pacific Kill....err...Pacific Bell in the Bay Area. Seems that a lot of customers had discovered that 10XXX+ Intra-lata-number worked from a lot of C.O.'s, and avoided the rip-off rates Pac Bell charged. Trying it from my C.O. (according to MCI's list, it was supposedly a 1AESS), it seemed that I had to use a 10XXX+ NPA-NXX-XXXX combination, but a 10XXX+NXX-XXXX combination did not work. Since the San Francisco LATA encompasses 3 area codes (415, and parts of 707 & 408), I could skip past Pac Bell only outside of 415 since also, the 10XXX+415-NXX-XXXX combo didn't work either. Doing a call search on the local MCI switch in Hayward (which was about 40 feet from my desk there) showed the same pattern for incoming FGD trunks from the C.O.'s, and FGB's from the Oakland tandem (re-routed FGD calls that we did not have FGD directs from the actual C.O.) Of course, FGB Calling Card calls can do this within the same area code since they (MCI) didn't know where the call was originating from, or cared. Well, Pac Bell got the Public Utilities Commission in San Francisco to issue an order 'stopping' the use of 10XXX dialling within the LATA, Pac Bell updated the routing tables appropriately in their switches to route to (the above) recording. For MCI customers, it was just an irritant since they now had to use their Calling Cards (though Customer Service was always instructed that they could not do this, but the MCI switches cared less) courtesy of the 'Around Town' feature (which allowed MCI customers to use their calling card in their local calling area without a surcharge added on the call), but for Sprint customers, it was bad since they do surcharge their calling cards. Anyway, with my employee discount ($25) plus an 'Internal' calling card to boot, the only charges I saw on my Pac Bell bill were the line charges and that was it. I do miss that, though. Robert Gutierrez - NASA Science Internet Network Operations. Moffett Feild, California ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 FEB 90 09:39:55 GMT From: EMW@leicester.ac.uk Subject: Re: London 071 081 Split In a recent digest, Scott Fybush writes: > With the 071/081 split only a few months away, there hasn't been much > publicity about it in England. A friend who is at Oxford just wrote > to me that he has seen nothing about it in the eight months he's been > there, and that in fact he wouldn't have known it was happening if I > hadn't told him. That sounds pretty incredible, especially given that > the split will take place with no grace period at all! There will be > a lot of very confused British people one morning in May...not to > mention international dialers the morning after the switch takes place. BT (and Mercury) have been advertising the London area code split for some time now. I suspect that people haven't heard of it since most people are not in the habit of reading full page advertisements by BT, especially when they contain a long list of numbers. In any case, area codes and telephone numbers have been changed before over here and I don't think that people will be very confused when after dialing a number such as 01-XYZ 9876 (where XYZ is a valid London prefix) they hear a message along the lines.... The number you have dialed has been changed. London numbers beginning with XYZ should now be prefixed with 071 instead of 01. For example, 01-XYZ 1234 should now be dialed as 071-XYZ 1234. Maybe I over-estimate people's understanding of such messages, but I've not met anyone who hasn't understood one yet (there is always a first time, I suppose!). Mike Warrington. ------------------------------ From: John Pettitt Date: Mon, 19 Feb 90 14:12:15 GMT Organization: Specialix International Subject: Re: London 071, 081 Split The new London area codes that come into full use on May 1st work now! Calling 081 941 2564 (my office) works just fine. If I dial 071 941 2564 I get "Please re-dial omitting the 071, this is test announcment three". John Pettitt Specialix International jpp@specialix.co.uk ------------------------------ From: Edward S Sachs Subject: Re: The Perennial Question Date: 19 Feb 90 13:32:40 GMT Organization: AT&T Bell Labs, Naperville, IL In article <3957@accuvax.nwu.edu>, phillips@cmsun.nrl.navy.mil (Lee Phillips) writes: > Is there a number I can dial to get a ringback, to check the ringers on my > phones? Or do I need to call my buddy and ask him to call me back? One number that seems to always work for this purpose is 00. Just ask the operator to ring you back so that you can test the ringer on your phone. They always oblige, quite willingly, and without charge. I've used this service numerous times in various cities throughout the US. Ed Sachs AT&T Bell Laboratories, Naperville, IL att!ihlpb!essachs, e.s.sachs@att.com [Moderator's Note: I'd suggest '0' is a better choice than '00' if you want to go about it that way. If '00' is MCI or Sprint, for example, their 'operators' are not so likely to assist in this way. Your local telco operator probably would do it, though. PT] ------------------------------ From: David Lesher Subject: Re: Why DOES AT&T Behave The Way They Do? Date: Mon, 19 Feb 90 19:14:24 EDT Reply-To: David Lesher I wanted to buy a directory sheet for my Touch-a-Matic 32. That's the thing you pencil the numbers {you program into the memory buttons} onto so you see "SAM" when you want Sam. It says, DIRECTORY SHEET SET 840393672 on it. The instruction book comes with 1-800-247-7000. I will say no more, because my story is so close to Roy's that he could sue me for plagiarism and win. What jury would believe me? Can we start a TELECOM Archive file on ATT_800_#s_to_nowhere? Anybody got any directory sheets? A host is a host & from coast to coast...wb8foz@mthvax.cs.miami.edu no one will talk to a host that's close..............(305) 255-RTFM Unless the host (that isn't close)......................pob 570-335 is busy, hung or dead....................................33257-0335 ------------------------------ End of TELECOM Digest V10 #114 ******************************   Received: from delta.eecs.nwu.edu by mintaka.lcs.mit.edu id aa02635; 20 Feb 90 4:57 EST Received: from mailinglists.eecs.nwu.edu by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id aa13486; 20 Feb 90 3:27 CST Received: from mailinglists.eecs.nwu.edu by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id ab09096; 20 Feb 90 2:23 CST Date: Tue, 20 Feb 90 2:05:43 CST From: TELECOM Moderator [To]: telecom@eecs.nwu.edu Subject: TELECOM Digest V10 #115 BCC: Message-ID: <9002200205.ab08333@delta.eecs.nwu.edu> TELECOM Digest Tue, 20 Feb 90 02:05:19 CST Volume 10 : Issue 115 Today's Topics: Moderator: Patrick Townson Torn-Tape Relay (Stuart Friedberg) COCOTs and Long Distance (John Higdon) Why Does It Take So Long to Have a Number Dial? (Doug Davis) Rude Directory Assistance (Robert M. Hamer) Phone Line Noise (Donald Parsons) Interesting Listing (Dean Sirakides) Use RJ-14's With Modems (was: Light Showing Phone is Off Hook?) (M. Morris) Centrex and 9xxx Numbers (David Leibold) Caller ID Debate in Canada (David Leibold) Information Needed on Panasonic KX-T616 (James Smith) Re: More 800, 900 Curiosities (Bill Huttig) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Stuart Friedberg Subject: Torn-Tape Relay Date: 19 Feb 90 04:07:04 GMT Organization: U of Wisconsin CS Dept The TTD stuff brought back memories of some other 50's technology still in use today (or at least the 80's), so I thought I'd stir up the pot. The recent discussion of operational signals used in TTD reminded me of the Z-signals we used at a military installation with Model 28 TeleTypes in the ops room. This was as recently as 1979, and that unit may still be equipped with low-speed, electromechanical terminals. More high-tech outfits used Model 40's at the time, replacing torn-tape relay with torn-cassette (but that's another story.) I once saw a massive book with "all known" Z- and K- signals, there must have been thousands, but we used shorthand similar to the TTD, plus a small set of additional signals: ZAG - transmit ZIF - message, usually as "ziffer" ZUJ - wait, usually as "zuj one" ZRJZUF - I probably mis-remember this one, but this sequence of two signals activated the audible alarm at the other terminal, if so equipped. CIP - come in please, usually repeated ad nauseum "cipcipcipcipcip..." until the operator at the other end got around to responding. It made a very distinctive noise, which one rapidly learned to detect above the roar of all the TTY's running full blast. There was an occasional British influence, as well. Operators addressed each other as "MATE", never "DUDE", "GUY", or "MAN". We'd type things like: a) CIPCIPCIPCIPCIPCIPCIPCIPCIPCIPCIP b) GAGAGAGAGAGAGA a) MATE PLS RELAY ZIFFER RAMSTEIN FM HAHN b) OK MATE ZUJ ONE ... GAGA ZAG a) (flip the switch on the tape feed) b) LOOKS OK ZIF TO RAMS MATE a) RGR Operators who could type quickly (which was *not* very many given the nature of the keyboard and the line speed) would spell out more words and add punctuation. To get punctuation (or digits) on a Mod 28, you have to hit special shift-in/shift-out (NUMS/LETS) keys to escape all letters mode, so commas, periods, and question marks, were a strain. (Three keystrokes instead of one.) A common communication problem was the loss of a shift-in or shift-out code, so that text became (trivially) enciphered as a mess of punctuation and digits. The receiving operator would note this and type "uppers uppers uppers" until the sender noticed and banged the LETS key a few times. Unfortunately, the Mod 40's have "normal" keyboards, without NUMS and LETS keys. When interoperating with Mod 28's, you had to go through some unintuitive contortions at the Mod 40 to generate a shift back into letters. Since the Mod 40 thought you were already *in* letters mode, the easiest solution was to type an unnecessary number then go back to letters. Thank God the shift was not a matter of parity (one code to signal both transitions), or we never could have gotten synchronized! Also, Mod 28's (and Model 33's) were built like tanks, and required a lot of finger strength to operate, while Mod 40's have keyboards like inexpensive personal computers. Operators with Mod 28 experience destroyed the space bar on the Mod 40's within a matter of weeks. A maintenance technician told me the mean time between space bar failures as his site was around 12 days. I left the service before this chronic problem got fixed. Stu Friedberg (stuart@cs.wisc.edu) [Moderator's Note: Memories are made of this....stories such as yours are always welcome in the Digest; so many readers here have little or no knowledge of the pre-1960's era in telephony. The lessons are important. PT] ------------------------------ Subject: COCOTs and Long Distance Reply-To: John Higdon Organization: Green Hills and Cows Date: 18 Feb 90 21:14:12 PST (Sun) From: John Higdon Went to my local Tower Records this afternoon and there, lo and behold, much to my dismay the old beat-up Pac*Bell pay phone in front of the store had been replaced by a you-know-what. It's better than average: wants $.25 for local (utility==$.20), passes 800, 950 without charge, pad works after call is dialed. But it did not honor "10XXX". "This is not a valid number..." Previously, I had complained about all the various ways one had to learn to dial for long distance. But now, after discovering that there was absolutely no way to access AT&T from this telephone, I would suggest that AT&T offer, in addition to its usual "0+", an 800 or 950 number for use from COCOTS to get around the AOS. I had no trouble making an MCI or Sprint call from this phone, but there was no way on earth to make an AT&T call. The scumball AOS refused to connect me to AT&T and the phone had every known customer way blocked. John Higdon | P. O. Box 7648 | +1 408 723 1395 john@zygot.ati.com | San Jose, CA 95150 | M o o ! [Moderator's Note: If AT&T did install an 800 number for this, once the COCOT proprietors found out about it, they would probably figure out a way to block it also, rotten unethical types they are. PT] ------------------------------ From: Doug Davis Subject: Why Does It Take So Long To Have a Number Dial? Date: 19 Feb 90 04:25:40 GMT Reply-To: doug@letni.lonestar.org Organization: Logic Process Dallas, Texas. Here's a question for those in the know. I just moved into a new area 214-270-XXXX is the area code and prefix. What I would like to know is why it takes so long for my exchange to "make" a connect. Dial tone is available immediately from my phone. When I dial the number there is a delay after dialing of 10-45 seconds before the number is connected. During this time there are no audible clicks to be heard (like the call was being routed) Just an very long delay, then the clicks are heard, then the call is connected. Normally this wouldn't be a problem except that the delay sometimes lasts longer than my modems timeout waiting for either a remote ring, or a busy. When using direct dial 10282 (Action) there was always a 20-30 second delay, now with the two delays added together it is sometimes longer than the maximum timeout my modem allows (60 seconds) before the call is completed. Any ideas? The local telco people (Southwestern Bell) have been less than helpful. Doug Davis/4409 Sarazen/Mesquite Texas, 75150/214-270-9226 {texsun, motown!sys1, uiucuxc!sys1 lawnet, attctc, texbell} letni!doug "Well, that was a piece of cake, eh K-9?" "Piece of cake, Master? Radial slice of baked confection ... coefficient of relevance to Key of Time: zero." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Feb 90 08:36 EST From: "ROBERT M. HAMER" Subject: Rude Directory Assistance Friday, February 16, I had an unusual interaction with a Directory Assistance operator, and am wondering about the ability of C & P Bell Atlantic to follow through (if, indeed, it was a C & P Bell Atlantic operator). I dialed (from a phone in Richmond, VA) 1-555-1212, for a phone number in a smaller city 30 miles away from Richmond (Petersburg). The number I wanted is a company whose name is "Lisa Victoria Brass Beds." I asked the operator for the number and she claimed no listing. Now, I just bought a nice brass bed from those folks, and at home, I have their literature, with phone number. I have been to their showroom / factory. I know they exist, and that they have a phone, and that it would be stupid for a retail business to have an unlisted / nonpublished number. Besides, if they did, the correct response would have been that the number was unlisted / nonpublished, not that it did not exist. Trying to be helpful (you will have to take my word for it that I was polite and nonabusive) I asked, "Did you look under 'L' or 'V'?" She responded, "Lisa starts with 'L,' doesn't it," and hung up on me. I thought about it for a few seconds, and dialed 1-555-1212 again, and asked to speak to a supervisor. I explained what had happened to the supervisor, who found the phone number with no problem, apologised profusely, and said that given the fact that I had just called, they stood a reasonable chance of finding out who I had talked with, and that hanging up on me was grounds for firing her. (I have absolutely no problem with firing a telephone operator who hangs up on a customer who is being non-abusive and polite.) My questions are, do you think they really can figure out who it was, and will they really fire her? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Feb 90 05:06:36 EST From: Donald Parsons Subject: Phone Line Noise On my home line often the first connection to the local computer center for Bitnet has noise on it - I have to abort and dial up a second time and then it is OK - it happens with two types of 2400B modems- it never happens on contacting Compuserve (nor on accessing the computer center from work). Diagnosis and cure anyone? Thanks, Don [Moderator's Note: You should watch me connect at 2400 baud with the terminal servers at eecs.nwu.edu sometime! 1200 is never a problem, but as often as not, I've got to try three or four times to get a clean, manageable line when I use 2400. If I leave my terminal on line during the call setup, the garbage blown back at me totally confuses the terminal, and a total power-down/up is needed to restore my configuration. If I dial (and its a local dialup!), take the terminal offline, watch only the modem lights and put the terminal back online when the dust settles, I am okay. The fact that Northwestern's own phone switch is in there probably doesn't help me. PT] ------------------------------ From: Dean Sirakides Subject: Interesting Listing Date: 19 Feb 90 16:26:23 GMT Organization: Motorola Inc. - Cellular Infrastructure Div., Arlington Hgts, IL I was looking something up in my Illinois Bell Business White Pages (c. 1989) when I ran across this listing: Cullen Co- Toll free from Telephs designated 272-291-498-564 Call Opr-Ask for.............ENTERPRISE-4072 I seem to remember "Enterprise" numbers were some sort of collect call arrangement, right? Is this still available? Wouldn't an 800 number be cheaper (and encouraged by the CO)? I scanned several other pages, but could not spot any similar listings. Anyone know any of the history here? Dean Sirakides | Motorola Cellular Group ...uunet!motcid!sirakide | Arlington Heights, IL Of course I speak for myself, not my employer... [Moderator's Note: See the Telecom Archives file on Enterprise numbers for some background. Use 'ftp 18.26.0.36' (lcs.mit.edu) to get there. Enterprise (and Zenith) numbers pre-dated 800 service. That service is now discontinued I believe, and grandfathered to existing customers only. They functioned the same as 800, and calls could be limited as to place of origin. You'll not find many in the book. PT] ------------------------------ From: Mike Morris Subject: Use RJ-14's With Modems (was Re: Light Showing Phone is Off Hook?) Date: 19 Feb 90 05:10:51 GMT Reply-To: Mike Morris leonard@bucket.uucp (Leonard Erickson) writes: >>Many modems have an A and A1 lead, which are on the outside pair (the >>black and yellow leads on a modular connector) on the RJ11 telephone >>line jack. The A and A1 leads short together when the modem is on >>line. You may have to check your modem manual and option switches to >>turn this feature on. >This "feature" is a royal pain if you have RJ-14 jacks. It clobbers >the second line every time you use the modem.... At least until you figure it out... >Many modems do not allow you to disable this. And *none* of the >manuals mention the possible problems of not disabling it on a >residence line! My residence line needs it ! (I have a 1A2 keysystem in the house!) :-) There is one easy way: The last time I was in the local radio shack I saw 2-conductor modular cords for $5 or so. Overpriced, but ... Also RJ-14 to dual RJ-11 adapters (differently wired Y-adapters) for $5.00. The real Hayes modems have ATJ0/1 (or something like that, my manual is at work) to enable/disable that feature. Some others (USR, I think) have an internal jumper block. Most of the real cheapie clones don't bother using a double pole relay, so don't have that option. My friend's Avatex has a 2-wire cord on it. >Grrrrr... Agreed. Mike Morris Internet: Morris@Jade.JPL.NASA.gov Misslenet: 34.12 N, 118.02 W #Include quote.cute.standard Bellnet: 818-447-7052 #Include disclaimer.standard Radionet: WA6ILQ ------------------------------ Subject: Centrex and 9xxx Numbers Date: Sun, 18 Feb 90 20:40:41 EST From: woody Several years ago, the University of Toronto used a Centrex that took up most of the 978 exchange. However, since extensions couldn't start with 9 (dial 9 to get local dial tone), there was a gap in the 978 exchange that was used for automatic mobile phone service (ie. 978-9xxx numbers). With cellular telephone service, this eventually went out of service. Perhaps there are other examples of the -9xxx gap where Centrex, or other direct-dial extension systems are used out there... || David Leibold//djcl@contact.uucp//(backup: david.leibold@canremote.uucp) || "Why should the devil have all the good music?" - Larry Norman ------------------------------ Subject: Caller ID Debate in Canada Date: Sun, 18 Feb 90 20:43:14 EST From: woody Caller ID (referred to as "Call Display" in the Great White North) was discussed on a recent Bell Canada Telenews hotline. They dealt with the negative publicity given to the service (much of it coming from some "civil liberties" groups in Quebec from what i've heard so far). The discussion began by mentioning that a balance was needed for the control of a conversation between the caller and callee, likening the Call Display situation to having a front door window where you could see the visitor before opening the door. U.S. Caller ID service was mentioned, and it was reported that privacy concerns, etc. turned out to be somewhat exaggerated. A mention was made that a life was saved via the Call Display feature, adding that many U.S. fire and police services are supporting Caller ID. The Call Display trial in Peterborough, Ontario was said to reduce the number of obscene phone calls. Of course, there would be the other services spun off by the CCS7 technology such as the call screening (prohibit calls from certain numbers), or call trace (send a message to the phone company as to who dialed, so that police can be notified of obscene calls, etc). || David Leibold//djcl@contact.uucp//(backup: david.leibold@canremote.uucp) || "Art is anything you can get away with" - Marshall McLuhan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Feb 90 10:14:12 EST From: James Smith x5227 Subject: Information Needed on Panasonic KX-T616 I am considering a Panasonic KX-T616 system for installation in a home I am building. I would appreciate the opinions of anyone familiar with this system. ------------------------------ From: Bill Huttig Subject: Re: More 800, 900 Curiosities Date: 17 Feb 90 18:29:43 GMT Reply-To: Bill Huttig Organization: Florida Institute of Technology, ACS, Melbourne, FL In article <3997@accuvax.nwu.edu> Miguel_Cruz@ub.cc.umich.edu writes: X-Telecom-Digest: Volume 10, Issue 106, message 11 of 12 >special. I'm not exactly sure how MCI got all the good ones (950, >222, 444, etc.), but they, and not AT&T, get to decide what goes where >on 800-950. 222 is not MCI's prefix. That one is AT&T. If I remember correctly MCI was the first OCC to get 800 numbers of their own. Bill ------------------------------ End of TELECOM Digest V10 #115 ****************************** ISSUES 116-117-118 GOT REVERSED IN TRANSMISSION. ISSUE 118 IS NEXT, THEN ISSUE 117 FOLLOWS, AND 116 IS LAST IN THIS GROUP OF THREE.   Received: from delta.eecs.nwu.edu by mintaka.lcs.mit.edu id aa12711; 21 Feb 90 14:22 EST Received: by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id ai21183; 21 Feb 90 13:12 CST Received: from mailinglists.eecs.nwu.edu by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id aa03170; 21 Feb 90 3:54 CST Received: from mailinglists.eecs.nwu.edu by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id ac15250; 21 Feb 90 2:47 CST Date: Wed, 21 Feb 90 2:27:32 CST From: TELECOM Moderator [To]: telecom@eecs.nwu.edu Subject: TELECOM Digest V10 #118 BCC: Message-ID: <9002210227.ab14395@delta.eecs.nwu.edu> TELECOM Digest Wed, 21 Feb 90 02:27:07 CST Volume 10 : Issue 118 Today's Topics: Moderator: Patrick Townson Phone "Crackers" (John Higdon) Jolnet Trouble (Gordon Meyer) Re: Hacker Group Accused of Scheme Against BellSouth (Eric Bloodaxe, LOD) Pentagon Prefixes (Greg Monti via John R. Covert) Groveton/Alexandria, Virginia (Greg Monti via John R. Covert) Do Country Codes Ever Get Changed? (Bob Goudreau) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Phone "Crackers" Reply-To: John Higdon Organization: Green Hills and Cows Date: 19 Feb 90 23:42:54 PST (Mon) From: John Higdon Today's San Jose Merkier carried an article in the business section about voice mail and the people who break in to voice mail systems. It was pointed out that a common "hacker" activity today was to break in and commandier blocks of voice mail boxes for such things as drug sales and other illegal activities. Also, those interested in espionage will break in to active mail boxes and find out surprising things. The long and the short of the message was to users of voice mail: use the security built in to your system. Don't leave unused boxes in the system activated. Don't use weenie security codes for boxes (like four digits) or particularly for the system administrator's password. Examine the activity reports, particularly the activity in the late afternoon (when kids get out of school) and in the evenings. Have mailboxes lockout after a small number of unsuccessful access attempts. Use ANI on your 800 numbers (if used on your system) to track abusers. The article pointed out that major users of voice mail are now using all of these anti-hacker techniques, but smaller users don't seem to feel the need. This would also apply to answering machines. Most of the current crop have "security" that is laughable. Two digits would hardly deter even the most casual hacker. The real annoyance is when the hacker changes your outgoing announcement. One would hope that answering machines would start appearing on the market that have some measure of real security for the user. John Higdon | P. O. Box 7648 | +1 408 723 1395 john@zygot.ati.com | San Jose, CA 95150 | M o o ! [Moderator's Note: I use Voicemail from Centel, the little suburban telco here. And I certainly agree with you that their 'security' is laughable. All unassigned boxes have the same default four digit passcode, pending the box being sold to someone. Really, anyone with some knowledge of how these things work could take over many idle boxes -- maybe this has already been done. And their knowledge of how to program the system, i.e. partition the boxes for people who have a 'front end' and several branch-boxes is poor. The documentation they sent me was skimpy and I learned it mostly from trial and error. David Tamkin also uses this system (he introduced me to it), and perhaps he will comment. The prices are okay. For five bucks a month, anyone out there want a voicemail box in area 708? Centel will set it up with a miscellaneous billing account. Phone 708-518-6000 for details. PT] ------------------------------ Date: 20 Feb 90 20:46:46 EST From: GORDON MEYER <72307.1502@compuserve.com> Subject: Jolnet Trouble Could someone post a summary of what "troubles" Jolnet has seen because of this LoD/e991 flap? Was it closed down, and by what agency and under what charges? From my understanding it merely acted as a conduit of the information and closing it down would be akin to shutting down CompuServe if somone sent a copy of WordPerfect to my mail box. Gordon Meyer 72307.1502@Compuserve.com [Moderator's Note: Well again, I have to involve Tamkin here. He was on line when the raid took place that Saturday afternoon and the system went down. He lost unread mail as a result. *If* the operator was only a common carrier, passing mail, etc, then he got a raw deal. *If* on the other hand, he was knowledgeable of how the system was being used, harboring or accomodating that type of user, then the legalities change. I don't know what his role was. Apparently very few people, if anyone, have been in touch with him by voice since that day to get the specifics. Would it have happened if the same files got stashed on Compuserve? No, because CIS has high-priced mouthpieces and they don't operate out of a spare bedroom in the owner's home. In the case of Jolnet, a fellow and his two sons ran it as a hobby from home. When the feds raided him, he had the chance of the proverbial iceberg in hell....really, its whatever you can convince the Judge to go along with. David, give us a little more background here please. In the next message today, a cracker tells his side of the story about the Event. PT] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Feb 90 05:16 CST From: MM02885@swtexas.bitnet Subject: Re: Hacker Group Accused of Scheme Against BellSouth <<< SYS$ANCILLARY:[NOTES$LIBRARY]GENERAL.NOTE;1 >>> -< General Discussion >- ============================================================================== Note 155.6 the MENTOR of the tree tops 6 of 6 SWT::RR02026 "Ray Renteria [ F L A T L I N E ] " 89 lines 20-FEB-1990 00:18 -< Life, The Universe, & LOD >- To set the record straight, a member of LOD who is a student in Austin and who has had his computer account at UT subpoenaed by the DA out of Chicago because of dealings with the above happenings: My name is Chris, but to the computer world, I am Erik Bloodaxe. I have been a member of the group known as Legion of Doom since its creation, and admittedly I have not been the most legitimate computer user around, but when people start hinting at my supposed Communist-backed actions, and say that I am involved in a world-wide consipracy to destroy the nations computer and/or 911 network, I have to speak up and hope that people will take what I have to say seriously. Frank, Rob and Adam were all definately into really hairy systems. They had basically total control of a packet-switched network owned by Southern Bell (SBDN)...through this network they had access to every computer Southern Bell owned...this ranging from COSMOS terminals up to LMOS front ends. Southern Bell had not been smart enough to disallow connections from one public pad to another, thus allowing anyone who desired to do so, the ability to connect to, and seize information from anyone else who was using the network...thus they ended up with accounts and passwords to a great deal of systems. This was where the 911 system came into play. I don't know if this system actually controlled the whole Southern Bell 911 network, or if it was just a site where the software was being developed, as I was never on it. In any case, one of the trio ended up pulling files off of it for them to look at. This is usually standard proceedure: you get on a system, look around for interesting text, buffer it, and maybe print it out for posterity. No member of LOD has ever (to my knowledge) broken into another system and used any information gained from it for personal gain of any kind...with the exception of maybe a big boost in his reputation around the underground. Rob took the documentation to the system and wrote a file about it. There are actually two files, one is an overview, the other is a glossary. (Ray has the issue of PHRACK that has the files) The information is hardly something anyone could possibly gain anything from except knowledge about how a certain aspect of the telephone company works. The Legion of Doom used to publish an electronic magazine called the LOD Technical Journal. This publication was kind of abandoned due to laziness on our part. PHRACK was another publication of this sort, sent to several hundred people over the Internet, and distributed widely on bulletin boards around the US. Rob sent the files to PHRACK for the information to be read. One of PHRACK's editors, Craig, happened to be the one who received the files. If Rob had sent the files to one address higher, Randy would have been the one who would probably be in trouble. In anycase, Craig, although he may have suspected, really had no way to know that the files were propriatary information and were stolen from a Southern Bell computer. The three Atlanta people were busted after having voice and data taps on their lines for 6 months. The Phrack people were not busted, only questioned, and Craig was indicted later. What I don't understand is why Rob and Craig are singled out more often than any other people. Both of them were on probation for other incidents and will probably end up in jail due to probation violations now. Frank and Adam still don't know what is going on with their cases, as of the last time I spoke with them. The whole bust stemmed from another person being raided and rolling over on the biggest names he could think of to lighten his burden. Since that time, Mr. William Cook, the DA in Chicago, has made it his life's goal to rid the world of the scourge of LOD. The three Atlanta busts, two more LOD busts in New York, and now, my Subpoena. People just can't seem to grasp the fact that a group of 20 year old kids just might know a little more than they do, and rather than make good use of us, they would rather just lock us away and keep on letting things pass by them. I've said this before, you cant stop burglars from robbing you when you leave the doors unlocked and merely bash them in the head with baseball bats when they walk in. You need to lock the door. But when you leave the doors open, but lock up the people who can close them for you another burglar will just walk right in. If anyone really wants to know anything about what is going on or just wants to offer any opinions about all this directly to me, I'm erikb@walt.cc.utexas.edu but my account is being monitored so don't ask anything too explicit. ->ME ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Feb 90 11:58:15 PST From: "John R. Covert 20-Feb-1990 1455" Subject: Pentagon Prefixes Fr: Greg Monti Dt: 14 February 1990 Re: Pentagon Prefixes "Jeffrey M. Schweiger" writes: > Looking at the > new, December 1989, edition of the DoD phone directory for the > Washington, DC area shows that a bunch of the numbers that were > previously 202-692-xxxx are now 202-602-xxxx. What will make life > even more interesting is that, in this phone book, only _some_, but > _not_ all, of the 692-xxxx numbers were converted over to 602-xxxx. Well, this is a fine mess that DoD, FTS and/or C&P have created.... According to the C&P Northern Virginia January 1990 directory, there is no 602 prefix in area code 202. It's in 703 in the Alexandria-Arlington Rate Area. With the current ten-digit-optional dialing on cross-NPA local calls dialing plan in Northern Virginia, 202-602-XXXX "cannot be completed as dialed." 602-XXXX goes through. So 602 is in 703...I think. True Pentagon prefixes like 692 are in 202. But *they also* cannot be reached by dialing 202-692-XXXX from Northern Virginia. That could be an error in programming at my central office or it could have been done on purpose to allow Virginians to dial another Northern Virginia local number - albeit in 202 - without dialing an area code or requiring an explanation of why the Pentagon is in Virginia but has a DC area code. Or 602 and 692 may both be true Pentagon prefixes (both in 202 to the outside world, both dialable only as 7 digits from nearby 703) and the C&P Virginia book could be in error. Or maybe the CO programming for the 10-digit local dialing plan is not complete yet. Or maybe it is complete and the Pentagon will always be a cross-NPA oddity. > As 692- is a DoD only exchange, > this appears to be the addition of a new DoD exchange, with an already > installed, and now somewhat confused, user base. The reason some phones may have been split off into 602 prefix is that they are *not* physically located in the Pentagon or on the pieces of DoD property which are immediatley contiguous to it (Arlington National Cemetery and the Defense Communication Agency). Greg Monti, Arlington, Virginia; work +1 202 822-2633 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Feb 90 11:58:15 PST From: "John R. Covert 20-Feb-1990 1455" Subject: Groveton/Alexandria, Virginia From: Greg Monti Dt: 14 February 1990 Re: Groveton/Alexandria, Virginia Carl Moore (VLD/VMB) writes: > 765 is an Alexandria exchange in the > Groveton area, which is the next exchange down U.S. 1 and the Potomac > River from old-town Alexandria. By my reckoning there is a CO in between Old Town and 765: Burgundy Road, which is about 2 blocks south of the Alexandria City line (i.e., I-95) and 1 block west of US-1. Place Name for Burgundy Road may be "Groveton." Burgundy Road prefixes are (703) 329, 960. It's a pretty large building for only 2 prefixes. Perhaps more have been added since I last updated my list. > Fort Belvoir and Mount Vernon have > since split off from the Groveton exchange, and a new exchange area, > south of the now-reduced Groveton exchange area, was set up. I know > that 360 and 780 serve the Mount Vernon area, with some 781 > (Engleside, the next exchange to the south, and which is toll to Md.) > mixed in; 664 is at Fort Belvoir, and I don't know what is on the pay > phones at Fort Belvoir. My list shows Mount Vernon prefixes are (703) 355, 360, 660, 765, 768, 780, 799. All are Metro prefixes in Alexandria-Arlington Rate Area. Fort Belvoir's central phone system is (703) 664, which is a metro prefix, apparently foreign-exchange-hacked since Fort Belvoir is outside the met. Phones not on Fort Belvoir switchboard and in the tiny town of Accotink, which is completely surrounded by the fort, are in (703) 781 which is part of the Engleside Rate Area which is outside the metro. I don't know which CO serves 781. It could be Mount Vernon (yes, the same CO can serve two Rate Areas) or Fort Belvoir (assuming it has a CO). Greg Monti, Arlington, Virginia; work +1 202 822-2633 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Feb 90 20:12:09 est From: Bob Goudreau Subject: Do Country Codes Ever Get Changed? Reply-To: goudreau@larrybud.rtp.dg.com (Bob Goudreau) Organization: Data General Corporation, Research Triangle Park, NC I'm curious about the telephonic dimension of the impending reunification of Germany. I've read that the Deutsche Bundepost (the West German PTT) has started planning ways to bring the East German telephone system into the late twentieth century. Does this mean that the East German system (country code +37) will simply be modernized, or are we in fact going to see the absorption of East Germany into the existing West German system (country code +49)? If not, we'll be confronted with the (as far as I know) unprecedented situation of one country being split among multiple country codes! Conceivably, this might also be an issue someday for other divided countries such as the Yemens, the Koreas, or China/Hong Kong/Taiwan. There are some new candidates for the opposite condition too (multiple countries sharing the *same* country code). Currently, this only applies to +1 (US, Canada, parts of Caribbean), +21 (several North African countries), and a few of the "microstates" which are for all intents & purposes part of the country whose code they use (Vatican City, Andorra, San Marino, Liechtenstein, Monaco). But in the next few years both Yugoslavia (+38) and the Soviet Union (+7) might break up (or at least spin off some independent countries). Would such new countries as Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia want to remain in an "integrated numbering plan area +7" with the Soviet Union? Or would they prefer to be assigned their own codes? Finally, consider the interesting case of the Moldavian SSR, which was sliced off from Romania (+40) and forcibly annexed into the Soviet Union by the same Nazi-Soviet pact that consigned the Baltic states to their fate. If Moldavia is rejoined to Romania with its present numbering system intact, it will fall into yet a third category: *parts* of countries that use *parts* of other countries' number spaces. Bob Goudreau +1 919 248 6231 Data General Corporation ...!mcnc!rti!xyzzy!goudreau 62 Alexander Drive goudreau@dg-rtp.dg.com Research Triangle Park, NC 27709, USA ------------------------------ End of TELECOM Digest V10 #118 ****************************** ISSUES 116-117-118 GOT REVERSED IN TRANSMISSION. ISSUE 117 IS NEXT AND 116 FOLLOWS THAT.   Received: from delta.eecs.nwu.edu by mintaka.lcs.mit.edu id aa12841; 21 Feb 90 14:25 EST Received: by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id ah21183; 21 Feb 90 13:11 CST Received: from mailinglists.eecs.nwu.edu by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id ab15250; 21 Feb 90 2:47 CST Received: from mailinglists.eecs.nwu.edu by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id ab16742; 21 Feb 90 1:31 CST Date: Wed, 21 Feb 90 1:17:38 CST From: TELECOM Moderator [To]: telecom@eecs.nwu.edu Subject: TELECOM Digest V10 #117 BCC: Message-ID: <9002210117.ab09350@delta.eecs.nwu.edu> TELECOM Digest Wed, 21 Feb 90 00:15:07 CST Volume 10 : Issue 117 Today's Topics: Moderator: Patrick Townson Re: Pacific Bell REsponse To CPUC Rate Decision (Curtis Galloway) Re: London Code Changes --- Server Now Available (Piet van Oostrum) Re: More 800, 900 Curiosities (Robert Gutierrez) Re: Modem Protocol Information (Jon Sreekanth) Re: Phone Line Noise (R. Steve Walker) Re: AT&T Behind Blocking of Japanese Business Phone Systems? (Bob Clements) Re: AT&T System 25 Experience Sought (Bob Clements) Zip Code Correlations and 312/708 Prefix Correction (David W. Tamkin) 10-NJB: Cross-Hudson Long Distance (John Cowan) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Curtis Galloway Date: Mon, 19 Feb 90 16:52:09 PST Subject: Re: Pacific Bell Response To CPUC Rate Decision john@bovine.ati.com (John Higdon) writes: >Curtis Galloway quotes from Pac*Bell Bill Insert: >[in addition to the usual stroking--this:] >> o We will share any earnings above a certain level >And if you *ever* see Pac*Bell admitting that it earned 16.5, I'll be >watching for the second coming. Before that would happen, they would >hose down the insides of 100 COs with an acid solution, and buy new >equipment from Pacific Telesis at inflated prices. They would be >totally stupid to let Pac*Bell earn that much and have to give it all >away to the suckers, oops, I mean ratepayers. OK, I can see that. But as a standard residential customer, does the CPUC decision really change the bills I will pay? Monopoly service rates are still regulated by the CPUC. If I never buy Centrex or yellow pages ads, I won't notice much of a difference. Right? (Of course, if Pac Bell ends up inflating prices for business users, we all pay for it.) By the way -- wasn't part of the agreement for Pacific Bell to eliminate the touch-tone fee on local bills? As of January, I was still being billed for it. Curt ``Dangerous'' is the word Miss Manners would use about doilies. --Judith Martin ------------------------------ From: Piet van Oostrum Subject: Re: London Code Changes --- Server Now Available Date: 20 Feb 90 10:29:27 GMT Reply-To: Piet van Oostrum Organization: Dept of Computer Science, Utrecht University, The Netherlands In article <4004@accuvax.nwu.edu>, henry@garp (Henry Mensch) writes: ` From: tjo@its.bt.co.uk (Tim Oldham) ` Subject: London Code Changes --- Server Now Available ` Date: 16 Feb 90 15:19:08 GMT `From the 6th May 1990, the dialling codes for London UK change. The `old code, 01 (which translates to +44 1 for international calls) is to `be replaced by two different codes, 071 (+44 71) and 081 (+44 81). `Obviously this is going to affect a large number of people. The split `is by geography, so there is no simple rule about what numbers change `from 01 to 071 and which from 01 to 081. However, it is possible to `find out what the new code will be from the first 3 digits of the `telephone number. For example, numbers that began 01 209 will change `to 081 200 while numbers that began 01 210 will change to 071 210. Here is a perl script to do the conversion: #! /local/bin/perl #Usage london telnr #where telnr = nnn-pppp | 01-nnn-pppp | +44-1-nnn-pppp # (pppp optional) $table = "8-888888887-7777-777777777777777777777777777777777" . "77777777777777-77777777777777777-77-777788-8-8-888" . "88888878888888878888777777777787877888788888-88888" . "777777777788-888888-77777777777777777777888888-888" . "77777777777777777778888887888877777777778888888888" . "88887887888888878888888778778877777777777777777777" . "8888888888777787788888788788-888888887788888888878" . "8888888888888888888888888888887777777777888888-888" . "77777777777777-7--7777777777777777777777888888888-" . "88-888888888-8888888888888888888888888888888887888" . "77777-77777777777-77777777777777777777778888888888" . "888788878888-88-8888887877888788888888887777777-77" . "8888888888-8------7777777-7777-7777777778888888888" . "888888888888888887888877888888-888888-8888888--888" . "8788888888-77887777-777777-777777777777788888-8888" . "8888877788887888-888-7778-787888-8888788-88888-88-" ; die "Usage: london telnr\n" if $#ARGV < 0; foreach $telnr (@ARGV) { $result = ''; if ( $telnr =~ /^(\d\d\d)|^01\D*(\d\d\d)|^\+44\D*1\D*(\d\d\d)/) { $nnn = $+; $pppp = $'; if ($nnn >= 200 && $pppp =~ /^\D*$|\D*\d\d\d\d\D*$/) { $digit = substr ($table, $nnn-200, 1); if ($digit != '-') { $result = $telnr; $result =~ s/^0/0$digit/ || $result =~ s/^\+44\D*/$&$digit/ || $result =~ s/^/0${digit}1-/; } } } if ($result) {print "$telnr => $result\n";} else {print "Invalid phone number $telnr\n";} } Piet* van Oostrum, Dept of Computer Science, Utrecht University, Padualaan 14, P.O. Box 80.089, 3508 TB Utrecht, The Netherlands. Telephone: +31-30-531806 Uucp: uunet!mcsun!hp4nl!ruuinf!piet Telefax: +31-30-513791 Internet: piet@cs.ruu.nl (*`Pete') ------------------------------ From: Robert Gutierrez Subject: Re: More 800, 900 Curiosities Date: 21 Feb 90 01:29:28 GMT Reply-To: Robert Gutierrez Organization: NASA ARC djcl@contact.uucp (woody) writes: > A while ago, I called an 800 number that told me that the number could > not be called, but suggested I try 1 800 888.1800 for assistance. > (This was dialed from 416 area code, and I think it worked from 519 as > well). > Well, I would try 1 800 888.1800 only to get the recording (from MCI > presumably) that the call could not be completed. The recording then > suggested for assistance that 1 800 888.1800 be dialed for further > assistance. You got timed out while the local MCI switch was polling the 2 VAX's they use for 800 number lookup. What happens is that the switches have dedicated data lines to 2 VAX's, one in West Orange, NJ and the other in Richardson, TX. The switch has a 'primary' VAX to poll, and if there is no response, then the other VAX is polled. What has happened in the past is that one VAX has crashed, and the other VAX has to take up slack, but the response time is so slow that the switch polling it just times out the call and routes it to that recording. And then there was this one time when both VAX's died for 45 minutes.... Oh yes, 800-888-1800 routes to Customer Service most of the time. Robert Gutierrez - NASA Science Internet Network Operations. ------------------------------ From: Jon Sreekanth Subject: Re: Modem Protocol Information Date: 21 Feb 90 01:53:13 GMT Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation In article <4057@accuvax.nwu.edu>, schweige@cs.nps.navy.mil (Jeffrey M. Schweiger) writes... >1. Can someone point me in the right direction for the technical >specifications for the various modem protocols in common use over >phone lines (i.e., Bell 103 for 300bps, Bell 212A for 1200bps, CCITT >V.22 for 1200bps, V.22bis for 2400bps, V.32, V.42, etc). I'm I'm not sure about the Bell Standards. For CCITT, you'll need one of the fascicles of the Blue Book (it's really called that), Fascicle VIII.1, "Data communication over the telephone network, Series V recommendations". The entire set of volumes is expensive, so try the larger university libraries, or order from the United Nations bookstore in NYC, at 212-963-7680. About $50 for each fascicle. >2. I've seen it mentioned that the max data rate over voice grade >line is basically capable of is 2400 baud, but have not found a >reference for how this number is determined. A pointer to an >appropriate reference here would also be appreciated, along with >similar references for what the various grades of telecommunications >lines are (T1, etc.). Just browse through the telecommunication/digital communication sections of any large university library. From my dim recollection, the standard telephone line is guaranteed from 300Hz to 3000Hz, and there is a requirement (deriving from someone's theorem) that the signalling rate should be less than the bandwidth. The important point here is the difference between baud and bits per second. The two terms are often confused, but baud refers to the number of symbols you can send per second, which is limited to about 3000; but each symbol can consist of several bits. For example 4800 bps or 9600 bps modems (incorrectly called 4800 baud or 9600 baud) put 2bits or 4 bits per symbol, encoding each symbol by a different amplitude and phase. The limit, of course, is imposed by the sensitivity of the receiver in distinguishing between the various encodings. Jon Sreekanth ------------------------------ From: "R. Steve Walker" Subject: Re: Phone Line Noise Date: 21 Feb 90 04:42:59 GMT Reply-To: "R. Steve Walker" Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology In article <4109@accuvax.nwu.edu> DFP10%ALBNYVM1@uacsc2.albany.edu (Donald Parsons) writes: X-Telecom-Digest: Volume 10, Issue 115, message 5 of 11 >On my home line often the first connection to the local computer >center for Bitnet has noise on it - I have to abort and dial up a >second time and then it is OK - it happens with two types of 2400B >modems - it never happens on contacting Compuserve (nor on accessing >the computer center from work). Diagnosis and cure anyone? You might try contacting BallCo at [404] 979-5900. I've been very successful using their noise eliminator/surge suppressor model. It saves me an awful lot of aggravation from bad connections. ~~ ~~ ~~ ------------------------------ Subject: Re: AT&T Behind Blocking of Japanese Business Phone Systems? Date: Tue, 20 Feb 90 15:20:30 -0500 From: clements@bbn.com Another point on the Panasonic KX-T61610 phone system. It appears that they do significant redesigns frequently, presumably for cost savings. I just got back from vacation and found the Technical/Service manuals for the KX-T61610 waiting for me in the pile of mail. (Thanks to those who gave me pointers to order it. The price was a mere $7 + tax + S/H.) The manual describes what must be an earlier version of the unit. No, not the 616, but an earlier KX-T61610 than the one I have. The manual describes a unit with an additional CPU in it which handles a pair of custom chips that talk to the smart phone sets for the lights/LCDs/buttons. Adding that CPU required an additional UART and BRG on the master CPU to talk to both the slave CPU and the SMDR port. My unit has moved that logic into the main CPU, saving a custom 8048-class chip, an 8251 and an 8254. Also, the unit in the manual has two 32K-byte ROMs where mine has one 64K-byte ROM and no second socket. And the I/O address assignments have been shuffled around to make more RAM space available. (Determined by looking at the firmware.) No need to go on about this in any more detail. I bring it up because I was surprised to see such a significant change in what was a pretty new unit. The KX-T61610 replaced the 616 fairly recently and yet here's a new rev already. (I got my unit in December.) And to add to Karl D's comments about hooking up extensions around the house: My two Unix-PCs and my 386 each have their own extension. They talk to each other directly without having to dial "9". The analog crossbar does fine with Trailblazers, both to other extensions and to the outside. [Yes, it does sound like I've gone a little overboard, doesn't it? But it's fun.] Bob Clements, K1BC, clements@bbn.com ------------------------------ Subject: Re: AT&T System 25 Experience Sought Date: Tue, 20 Feb 90 20:40:41 -0500 From: clements@bbn.com In Telecom-Digest: Volume 10, Issue 107, message 2 of 5, vances@xenitec.UUCP writes: >The original posting stated that a requirement was CPC (Calling Party >Control) on the 2500 (analog single line) ports. [... e.g., to cut off an >answering machine...] >Anyone care to comment? > >vances@xenitec.on.ca Just another data point on this. I commented a while back that I wanted the same thing on the Panasonic KX-T61610 and that I wanted a command from a smart-phone to force this action. Now that the tech manual has come in, I looked at the circuit for the station interface and there is no capability to do this in the hardware. The station is always powered from either the talk-battery generator or the ring generator, both of which supply DC. No way to generate a CPC pulse. Too bad. (You can flash the CO lines, but not the inside stations.) Bob Clements, K1BC, clements@bbn.com ------------------------------ From: "David W. Tamkin" Subject: Zip Code Correlations and 312/708 prefix correction Date: Mon, 19 Feb 90 23:55:12 CST The zip code correlations of recent and imminent area code splits having been under discussion of late, here is more about the 312/708 effect on zip codes than you wanted to know: All 601xx and 605xx addresses that were in 312 are now in 708; those that were in 815 are still in 815. All 602xx and 603xx zips are in 708. Small pieces of 60007, 60018, and possibly 60459 are in 312; otherwise any 600xx or 604xx address that was in 312 is now in 708; any that was in 815 is still in 815. 60650 and 60658 are entirely in 708. 60642 and 60648 are mostly in 708 with small pieces in 312. 60627, 60633, 60634, 60635, 60638, 60643, 60645, 60646, 60655, and 60656 have significant portions in both 312 and 708. Small strips or pieces of 60630, 60631, 60652, and 60659 are in 708, but those zips are mostly in 312. [What makes nine of the divided zips "small part in one, mostly in the other" and the other ten "significantly in both" is strictly my very subjective evaluation.] All other 606xx zips are entirely in 312. Note, however, that it is quite possible for a mailing address and a telephone site to be in different places: mail addresses can lead to different branch, a private postal facility, or a post office box, and telephone numbers can ring at a different branch, an answering service, or voice mail. For cellular numbers and foreign exchange lines, all bets are off. All in all, zip-phone correlations have more curiosity value than practical reliability. On related items, prefix (312) 309, incorrectly publicized as staying in 312, is now in fact (708) 309. There was some confusion between Ameritech Mobile and Illinois Bell on that one. David Tamkin P O Box 813 dattier@vpnet.UUCP {ddsw1,obdient}!vpnet!dattier Rosemont Illinois 60018-0813 No other vpnet user shares any of my opinions. 708-518-6769 312-693-0591 BIX: dattier GEnie: D.W.TAMKIN CIS: 73720,1570 ------------------------------ From: John Cowan Subject: 10-NJB: Cross-Hudson Long Distance Reply-To: John Cowan Organization: ESCC, New York City Date: Tue, 20 Feb 90 16:56:15 GMT I understand that there is some kind of exception to the MFJ that allows New York Telephone and New Jersey Bell to pass calls from their own LATAs to a limited set of prefixes in the LATA of the other party. New Jersey Bell uses the prefix 10-NJB and advertises heavily. New York Telephone, OTOH, doesn't say how they do this; 10-NYT gets intercepted, and the usual marketing droids didn't know how it's done. Since I suspect that NYT charges AT&T rates for this, and I wish to be sure of using my alternative LD service, how can I make it so? Does anyone connected with NYT (or not) have definitive information? ------------------------------ End of TELECOM Digest V10 #117 ****************************** ISSUE 116-117-118 WERE REVERSED IN TRANSMISSION. ISSUE 118 APPEARS BEFORE 117, AND 116 APPEARS AFTER 117.   Received: from delta.eecs.nwu.edu by mintaka.lcs.mit.edu id aa17950; 21 Feb 90 16:20 EST Received: by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id ag21183; 21 Feb 90 13:10 CST Received: from mailinglists.eecs.nwu.edu by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id aa15250; 21 Feb 90 2:40 CST Received: from mailinglists.eecs.nwu.edu by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id aa16742; 21 Feb 90 1:31 CST Date: Wed, 21 Feb 90 0:50:10 CST From: TELECOM Moderator [To]: telecom@eecs.nwu.edu Subject: TELECOM Digest V10 #116 BCC: Message-ID: <9002210050.ab06902@delta.eecs.nwu.edu> TELECOM Digest Tue, 20 Feb 90 00:49:08 CST Volume 10 : Issue 116 Today's Topics: Moderator: Patrick Townson Re: ABC TV Feed Via Phone Number in NYC (Robert Gutierrez) Re: ABC TV Feed Via Phone Number in NYC (John Wheeler) Re: Centrex and 9xxx Numbers (Scott Fybush) Re: Rude Directory Assistance (Kevin Blatter) Re: Rude Directory Assistance (Steve Huff) Re: Questions About LiTel (Stephen Fleming) Re: Latest Charge by Southwestern Bell (tanner@ki4pv.uucp) Re: Prevalence of 10xxx Dialing (John Cowan) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Robert Gutierrez Subject: Re: ABC TV Feed Via Phone Number in NYC Date: 20 Feb 90 07:20:30 GMT Reply-To: Robert Gutierrez Organization: NASA ARC nickless@flash.ras.anl.gov (Bill Nickless) writes: > In article <3738@accuvax.nwu.edu> Robert Gutierrez > writes: > > It's unfortunate that you can't use cellular phones for 'Remote Broadcast' > > without an STA (Special Temp. Authority). > I listen to WGN here in Chicago, and they seem to do this regularly. > (Patrick: On the "Al and/or Ed show.") Last December a listener in an > automobile called the show and asked for directions to a restaurant in > downtown Chicago..... > Is this the type of situation where an STA would be needed? Technically, if you follow the letter of the FCC reg in question, yes, but this was a call-in talk show, and it is understood that these are semi-unsolicited calls via cellular, and it's not a point the FCC would (or even could???) enforce. It seems that as far as the FCC is concerned, you need a license if your remote broadcast is 'in the air' between the announcer and the commercial transmitting site (I can't remember the exact regulation unfortunately). Why the FCC made a point of enforcing celluar remote- broadcast transmissions is beyond me. Protecting somebody's intrests??? The problem is that licensing such on a regular basis requires filing forms listing all the celluar frequencies (along with transmitting sites, power, etc.) and specific permission of the permanant holder of the celluar license in question (and they'd rather you use their more expensive land voice circuts). There's got to be something wrong here. I certanly hope that the Ku-band satellite links become more popular especially since they're getting smaller (just like TV news remotes), Then the telco-celluar monopoly will all of a sudden ask the FCC to revise that part of the regulation so that they can use celluar phones to do remote-broadcasts. Some stations could care less about regulations anyway, and are doing news stories via headphone-equipped Novatel handheld celluar phones, since you can't tell on the air anyway where they're talking from... They just keep the phone tucked in their jacket pocket. Robert Gutierrez - NASA Science Internet Network Operations Moffett Field, California. "Home of the first N0X prefix in the Bay Area (604)." ------------------------------ From: John Wheeler Subject: Re: ABC TV Feed Via Phone Number in NYC Date: 20 Feb 90 20:58:39 GMT Reply-To: John Wheeler Organization: Turner Entertainment Networks Library; Atlanta In article <4058@accuvax.nwu.edu> HUFF@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu (Steve Huff, U. of Kansas, Lawrence) writes: X-Telecom-Digest: Volume 10, Issue 113, message 3 of 8 >Years ago I had a phone number in NYC that allowed you to listen to >the feed from ABC TV. Does anybody know if this number still exists, >and more importantly, what it is? Thanks. No idea on the number, but the use is, probably, an IFB. That allows remote field crews to call in and get the feed that winds up in the ear of the talent...with a catch...it's interruptable by the director in the control room to give cues. Also, if they're far enough away that the incoming feed is by satellite, the IFB is dialed up (usually via US Sprint these days to assure fiber-optics) so that the feed going into the talent's ear is in real-time, that is, without the 262ms delay caused by a satellite feed. Most networks and large TV operations have a bank of automatically answered IFB feeds available. The crew calls, and then sets up on another line. * John Wheeler - Unix/C Systems Designer/Programmer/Administrator/etc... * * Turner Entertainment Networks * Superstation TBS * TNT * Turner Production * * ...!gatech!nanovx!techwood!johnw (404) TBS-1421 * * "the opinions expressed in this program are not necessarily those of TBS" * ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Feb 90 11:50:42 -0500 From: Robert Kaplan Subject: Re: Centrex and 9xxx Numbers Funny you should ask. Brandeis University uses (617)736-2000 to 736-8999. Both "0" and "9" are used for other purposes from campus phones ("1" is unused for any other purpose, but is presumably available.) Just the other night I tried some random numbers of the form 736-0xxx, 736-1xxx, and 736-9xxx. 0xxx and 1xxx returned "not in service messages," as did 90xx-93xx and 95xx-99xx. (at least the ones I tried). Any number of the form 736-94xx connected me with the Xerox Voice Exchange System, apparently some sort of internal voicemail. Anyone know what that is? Something similar was in use in Rochester NY a few years ago. The University of Rochester used (716)275 2xxx-8xxx. 0xxx, 1xxx, and 9xxx were available to customers in the town of Brighton. About 1982, the university began moving to 5-digit dialing on campus, and the addition of the 277 exchange. That allowed use of [27]5-0xxx, 1xxx, and 9xxx. The non-university customers on those numbers were moved to the 461 exchange; so WWWG radio (275-9212) became 461-9212, for example. Incredibly, at least according to someone I know who had a 275-9xxx number, the change took place with *no notice whatsoever* to the subscriber! BTW, the phone # here for campus police [I just noticed this] is PEnnsylvania 6-5000! :-) A few other examples in NY State are: The Rochester Institute of Technology uses just part of (716) 475; I *think* from 475-2000 to 475-6999 (?). The rest of the exchange is used in the northern part of the town of Henrietta [the part served by the "Rochester" exchange {272, 424, 427 #s} and not the "Henrietta" exchange {334, 359}]. SUNY Brockport uses (716) 395-xxxx; although they do not use all of the numbers possible, there are no other users of that exchange -- other Brockport customers get (716) 637-xxxx. SUNY Geneseo uses (716) 245-xxxx; same situation there -- other Geneseo customers get (716) 243-xxxx. Cornell University uses (315) 787-xxxx for its agricultural experimentation center in Geneva NY; as far as I know there is no one else on 787 but them, although they do not use the whole exchange. Other Geneva customers are 781- and 789-. Cornell also maintains leased lines and allows toll-free calling between the experiment station in Geneva and the main campus in Ithaca. Most other Centrex users in Rochester Telephone land use parts of the following "Rochester" exchanges: 222, 238, 253, 258, 263, 274, 292, 424, 427, 588, 722, 724, 726, 777, 781, 955, and 987. 253, 477, 588, 722, and 781 are exclusively for Eastman Kodak's mammoth phone system, which also uses large chunks of 722, 724, and 726. 777 is at present used only by Roch Tel itself; they just moved their office phone #s there from 955 in 1988. 222 is the high-volume one for the radio stations and such. The 1990 Roch Tel book also lists 255, 429, 957, and 959, which I suspect are Centrex exchanges as well. 428-xxxx is used exclusively by city and county government. Again, they do not use 428-0xxx, 1xxx, or 9xxx. As far as I know, nobody does. One somewhat related question: It seems every year Roch Tel adds at least 5 new exchanges. If NYNEX is doing the same in its (Buffalo LATA) part of 716, how far is 716 from an area code split? And will the Rochester LATA get a NNX NPA? Yecch! I'm getting nostalgic for 716 and it's not even gone yet! There are no N1/0X exchanges in 716 yet, and dialing toll calls within the area code is 1+7 digits. Last time I tried, Roch Tel wouldn't allow 1+716+7 digits. Scott Fybush Disclaimer: This may not even be my own opinion. ------------------------------ From: Kevin Blatter Subject: Re: Rude Directory Assistance Date: 20 Feb 90 19:40:09 GMT Organization: AT&T BL Middletown/Lincroft NJ USA In article <4108@accuvax.nwu.edu>, HAMER@ruby.vcu.edu (ROBERT M. HAMER) writes: > My questions are, do you think they really can figure out who it was, > and will they really fire her? My wife had a somewhat similar experience a few months ago. MCI was telephone soliciting to get people to sign up for their Primetime service. They called my house and at first she did not hear the phone ring and the answering machine picked up the call. She then picked up the phone and he started into his dialogue. The answering machine was recording the call and the solicitor knew it. When he explained that he was from MCI and what he wanted, she politely stopped him short and explained that her husband worked for AT&T and therefore she would not be interested. When she finished explaining, he retorted, "Well then, hey ma'am how's your bladder?" and then started snickering....making reference to my last name, which incidentally rhymes with water, not bladder. It really pissed her off and having recorded the whole conversation on tape, she called customer service number for MCI. They were very apologetic and gave her another number to call. She called the other number and she played the tape for them. They took down all of the information about the call, ie. number, time, date, etc. They told her that it would be very easy to track down the offender and that he would definitely be fired. She started feeling guilty about it afterwards, making the guy lose his job and such. (She gets pissed off when people innocently mis-pronounce her last name!) I told her that as much as I hated MCI, you were probably doing them a favor. Kevin L. Blatter AT&T - Bell Labs Lincroft, NJ ------------------------------ From: "Steve Huff, U. of Kansas, Lawrence" Subject: Re: Rude Directory Assistance Date: 20 Feb 90 14:36:30 CST Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services In article <4108@accuvax.nwu.edu>, HAMER@ruby.vcu.edu (ROBERT M. HAMER) writes: > My questions are, do you think they really can figure out who it was, > and will they really fire her? How's this for an answer: It depends on their technology. At the customer service center I work at, using ACD/Teknekron equipment, we can determine who was using the phone at what time. Although we can't tell what number they were talking to when the call is inbound, we look at all transactions from the terminals of the operators at that time. This identifies the operator almost every time, and also provides information indicating who was performing what transaction. Talk about Big Brother! Steve Huff Internet: HUFF@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu Bitnet: HUFF@ukanvax.BITNET EmCon: K1TR or KW02 (If you have access, please say so!) ------------------------------ From: ames!ames!claris!portal!cup.portal.com!fleming@uunet.uu.net Subject: Re: Questions About LiTel Date: Mon, 19-Feb-90 08:00:04 PST >schoff@psi.com (Martin L. Schoffstall) writes: >I believe the LiTel that you are talking about is owned by Williams >Telecommunications Group (WTG) of Tulsa Oklahoma. A common misconception, but no. WilTel bought LightNet (based in Rockville, Maryland) to complete its nationwide network. LiTel is independent and based in Columbus, Ohio. LiTel, WilTel, and several other companies have a cooperative effort known as NTN (National Telecommunications Network) to allow nationwide marketing and single point-of-contact for customers. Financially, LiTel and WilTel are completely separate. +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Stephen Fleming | Internet: fleming@cup.portal.com | | Director, Technology Marketing | Voice: (703) 847-8186 | | Northern Telecom +-------------------------------------| | Eastern Region / Federal Ntwks | Opinions expressed do not | | McLean, Virginia 22102-4203 | represent Northern Telecom. | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ ------------------------------ From: tanner@ki4pv.uucp Organization: CompuData Inc., DeLand Subject: Re: Latest Charge by Southwestern Bell Date: Tue, 20-Feb-90 08:00:04 GMT ) If your local govt is doing it's job, they are auditing the costs of ) providing this service, and should have it set up so that it is not ) just 50 cents in perpetuity, but for some limited period. Perhaps they should. In Volusia County, the installation tax has gone away, but the $0.30/line monthly tax will surely never go down. It applies, of course, not only to voice lines but also to modems which can't usefully dial 911. Installation started in `83, at which time everyone was assigned house numbers. ) After that they should be able to determine the ongoing costs of ) maintaining the system and paying PSAP operators. The costs are fairly impressive. In Volusia County (pop 350,000), they expect 46900 calls this year, 20000 of which will be wrong numbers (non-emergency calls). They budget $861466 for this; divided by the total number of calls, it works out to be $18.36/call. Divided by the number of emergency calls, it works out to be $32.02/call. Are you SURE that the government is auditing the cost of this service? ...!{bikini.cis.ufl.edu allegra attctc bpa uunet!cdin-1}!ki4pv!tanner ------------------------------ From: John Cowan Subject: Re: Prevalence of 10xxx Dialing Reply-To: John Cowan Organization: ESCC, New York City Date: Tue, 20 Feb 90 16:27:14 GMT In article <4008@accuvax.nwu.edu>, Randal Schwartz writes: >Is that everywhere *except* the backwaters of GTE Northwest, now? Or >are there still many places that don't have 10XXX dialing? >We can do 950-xxxx and "select our default 1+ carrier", but 10XXX is >only for the local Bell-co (US West, or whatever they changed their >name to this week) customers. As I understand it, only Bell (ex-AT&T) telcos plus GTE must offer this service, and lots of local independent telcos don't. Taconic Telephone, for example, the first all-digital local telco in the country, has no plans to offer any LD carrier except AT&T. (I suppose that GTE comes under the terms of the MFJ because it owns Sprint. True or false?) ------------------------------ End of TELECOM Digest V10 #116 ****************************** ISSUES 116-117-118 WERE REVERSED IN TRANSMISSION. 118 COMES AFTER 115 THREE ISSUES ABOVE. THEN COMES 117, AND LAST COMES 116. THE NEXT ISSUE IN LINE HERE WILL BE 120. THEN ISSUE 119, FOLLOWED BY 121 HOPEFULY.   Received: from delta.eecs.nwu.edu by mintaka.lcs.mit.edu id aa26446; 23 Feb 90 2:46 EST Received: from mailinglists.eecs.nwu.edu by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id aa08558; 23 Feb 90 0:53 CST Received: from mailinglists.eecs.nwu.edu by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id ab04181; 22 Feb 90 23:49 CST Date: Thu, 22 Feb 90 22:47:11 CST From: TELECOM Moderator [To]: telecom@eecs.nwu.edu Subject: TELECOM Digest V10 #120 BCC: Message-ID: <9002222247.ab02322@delta.eecs.nwu.edu> TELECOM Digest Thu, 22 Feb 90 22:45:49 CST Volume 10 : Issue 120 Today's Topics: Moderator: Patrick Townson Re: Why DOES AT&T Behave The Way It Does? (Eric L. Schott) Re: Centrex and 9xxx Numbers (Dan Ross) Re: A Puzzle (Wm. Randolph Franklin) Re: More 800, 900 Curiosities (Richard R. Wessman) Re: Why Does It Take So Long To Have a Number Dial? (Thomas J. Roberts) Need Advice on Choosing PBX System (Lynn Gale) Request For Summary of CO Types (John Boteler) Books Wanted onn the Phone System (David Barts) Directories Query (John McHarry) Info Needed on Text-to-Speech Synthesizers (Gideon Yuval) So Long, and Thanks For the Fish! (Peggy Shambo) Xerox Voice Message Exchange (Lee C. Moore) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Eric L. Schott" Subject: Re: Why DOES AT&T Behave The Way It Does? Date: 21 Feb 90 12:09:29 EST Organization: HRB Systems In article <3999@accuvax.nwu.edu>, roy@phri.nyu.edu (Roy Smith) writes: > I go to call the catalog folks to find out prices (I hate when > there are no prices in catalogs). But who do I call? In article <4030@accuvax.nwu.edu>, thomas%mvac23.uucp@udel.edu Moderator notes: > [Moderator's Note: ... > AT&T and/or any huge organization are as good and efficient > and concerned as their best, most effecient and most concerned > employees. They are as clumsy, ineffecient and screwed up as their > most clumsy, inefficient and screwed up employees. The analogy about > the chain being as strong as its weakest links might also apply here. > I've met and worked with many intelligent, very dedicated AT&T people. PT] I have found Digital Equipment Corporation's catalogs to have widely varying prices. This coupled with the question, "Just what items are discounted?" often left me unsure of a price. Then came DIGITAL's Electronic Stores where I can find the latest price with the company discount. I have not yet selected the "Would you like to place an order option" yet. How nice if AT&T has such a system. Eric L. Schott, HRB Systems, Inc. 814/238-4311 Internet: ELS@ICF.HRB.COM Bitnet: ELS%HRB@PSUECL.Bitnet UUCP: ...!psuvax1!hrbicf!els ------------------------------ From: Dan "the Man with the Plan" Ross Subject: Re: Centrex and 9xxx Numbers Date: 22 Feb 90 08:00:38 GMT Organization: U of Wisconsin CS Dept In article <4112@accuvax.nwu.edu> djcl@contact.uucp (woody) writes: X-Telecom-Digest: Volume 10, Issue 115, message 8 of 11 >Several years ago, the University of Toronto used a Centrex that took >up most of the 978 exchange. However, since extensions couldn't start >with 9 (dial 9 to get local dial tone), there was a gap in the 978 >exchange that was used for automatic mobile phone service (ie. The University of Texas at Austin uses the entire 471 exchange for on-campus offices and departments. The student dorms, however, are on part of the 495 exchange. Intracampus calls are made by the last _5_ digits, so there are numbers of the form 471-9XXX. The dorm "exchange" includes 495-5XXX and 495-3XXX and possibly more. The gap here is more due to not that many student dorm rooms than technical reasons. Many departments have internal systems which allow 4- or 3-digit numbers (which usually, but not always, are the XXXX). The off-campus research labs are tucked away in a north Austin exchange. The campus phone system includes call waiting (which you CAN'T turn off--solution was to "forward" calls to a nonexistent 5-XXXX number, say, 5-8XXX, which gave caller a fast busy signal), 3-way calling, and call forwarding on dorm lines, and more on office lines. The fun arises when you dial a number 495-XXXX from on campus; unless you know someone lives in the dorm, you just have to try it: 9-495-XXXX or 5-XXXX. (There are state and city offices, as well as a cookie store (!) on 495-XXXX.) And the wrong one will not work! However, the "Please check the number and dial again" recording had been read in a most lengthy and dramatic manner by a woman with a British accent, so it was quite pleasant to just sit there and listen to her repeat it over and over. 8-) Dan Ross dross@cs.wisc.edu ------------------------------ From: Wm Randolph Franklin Subject: Re: A Puzzle Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy NY Date: 22 Feb 90 23:51:05 GMT There is a way to store a sparse list of long numbers or words in less space than it would take to list them, if you allow some false positives. Hence it would be better to store the valid numbers, else people would be falsely accused of using bad cards. Let N = number of numbers/words to store. Set M = 20M (20 is a user parameter) Allocate B[1:M] a long bit string, initially 0. So our total storage req is 20 bits/number, INDEPENDENT of the numbers' lengths, which may be much less than needed to store the numbers. Define 10 hash functions from numbers to bit locations: Hi(n) -> l where i says which hash function, n is the number to be hashed, and l is the output bit number. Now, to store number n, set the 10 bits B[H1(n)], ..., B[H10(n)]. Repeat for all the card numbers to be stored. This will set somewhat less than half of all the bits in B (because of some bits being set several times). To check whether a number is valid, compute the 10 hash functions and check the 10 bits. If any bit is 0, that is definitely an invalid number. On the other hand if the number is invalid there is less than a 1/1024 = 0.1% chance that this scheme gives a false positive. Note that the error rate is a function of 10 and 20. This is also an excellent method to store a spelling dictionary. Does anyone know if this is actuallu used for calling or credit cards? Wm. Randolph Franklin Internet: wrf@ecse.rpi.edu (or @cs.rpi.edu) Bitnet: Wrfrankl@Rpitsmts Telephone: (518) 276-6077; Telex: 6716050 RPI TROU; Fax: (518) 276-6261 Paper: ECSE Dept., 6026 JEC, Rensselaer Polytechnic Inst, Troy NY, 12180 ------------------------------ From: "Richard R. Wessman" Subject: Re: More 800, 900 Curiosities Date: 22 Feb 90 20:06:00 GMT Reply-To: ccird5!rrw@cci632.uucp Organization: Computer Consoles Inc. an STC Company, Rochester, NY In article <4144@accuvax.nwu.edu> Robert Gutierrez What happens is that the switches have dedicated data lines to 2 >VAX's, one in West Orange, NJ and the other in Richardson, TX. The >switch has a 'primary' VAX to poll, and if there is no response, then >the other VAX is polled. What has happened in the past is that one VAX >has crashed, and the other VAX has to take up slack, but the response >time is so slow that the switch polling it just times out the call and >routes it to that recording. A minor point (if you don't work for CCI), the machines at the DAP's in New Jersey and Texas are not VAXes. They are POWER 6/32 FT's, which are fault-tolerant versions of POWER 6/32's. For the lawyers: POWER 6/32 and POWER 6/32FT are registered trademarks of Computer Consoles, Incorporated. Rick Wessman cci632!rrw ------------------------------ From: Thomas J Roberts Subject: Re: Why Does It Take So Long To Have a Number Dial? Date: 21 Feb 90 15:04:23 GMT Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories From article <4107@accuvax.nwu.edu>, by doug@letni.uucp (Doug Davis): > Here's a question for those in the know. I just moved into a new area > 214-270-XXXX is the area code and prefix. What I would like to know > is why it takes so long for my exchange to "make" a connect. In many (most?) end offices, typing a # after the number will avoid any post-dial delay. Some systems cannot determine when dialing is completed by looking at the dialed digits, so they simply wait for several (8-10) seconds of silence, and assume that signals the end of dialing. Most will accept a # to also signal end of dialing. If you are using dial-pulse (instead of DTMF), I believe you are out of luck. Most modern end offices determine end-of-dialing by examining the dialed digits, UNLESS THERE IS AN AMBIGUITY INHERENT IN THE DIALING PLAN. Note that you may not be aware of the ambiguity. There are many other causes of post-dial delay. The above paragraph describes the only portion that you, the subscriber, can do anything about (short of moving to another end office, or changing your long-distance company). Tom Roberts AT&T Bell Laboratories att!ihlpl!tjrob ------------------------------ From: Lynn Gale Subject: Need Advice on Choosing PBX System Date: 22 Feb 90 19:22:27 GMT Reply-To: Lynn Gale Organization: Center for Advanced Study in the Behavioral Sciences In the midst of planning for a LAN we also need to make some decisions about a new phone system. In the case of digital phone systems, I take it that data and voice will even share the same wires, given the appropriate equipment. Hence it seems important to integrate plans for computers and phones. The question is: where does one go for information, reviews, and comparisons of the many phone systems available? And in particular their possible interactions with data networks? What are the trade magazines of interest (understandable to the non-expert in communications)? Are there relevant b-boards? Anyone know how to locate good advice or a helpful consultant? The Yellow Pages reveal an overwhelming number of companies ready to install this or that particular phone system at one's site. But where does one go to get the broad view of choices / contingencies (minus the sales pitches)? Anybody have favorable experience with a PBX suitable for a mid-size site with little or no expansion needs (approx. 76 stations, 24 lines)? Any positive or negative impressions regarding particular telecommunications companies in the Silicon Valley area? Thanks in advance. Lynn casbs@csli.stanford.edu x3.a37@stanford.bitnet ------------------------------ Subject: Request For Summary of CO Types Date: Wed, 21 Feb 90 4:33:09 EST From: John Boteler In all my experience with various small scale telephony projects, I have never really assimilated the various switch types used in central offices through the years. Perhaps Larry Lippman ( @kitty ) or Bernard McKeever or other who has had experience in this area could provide a summary of the various CO switches, the dates of their prominance, and the common applications they found themselves in (big cities, toll centers, etc). For instance, most #2 ESS offices seem to serve a smaller number of customers and operate more slowly than, say #1 ESS. Any insight into these issues would be appreciated. Thanx! John Boteler NCN NudesLine: 703-241-BARE -- VOICE only, Touch-Tone (TM) accessible {zardoz|uunet!tgate|cos!}ka3ovk!media!csense!bote ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 90 00:50:43 pst From: David Barts Subject: Books Wanted on the Phone System Can anyone recommend some good references on the internals of the phone system. By internals I am referring to things like ringback numbers, test circuits, types of exchanges and their capabilities (and vulnerabilities), etc. Info in various types of hardware would also be interesting. Also another thing that I have been wondering about is the three irritating tones you hear before the "We are sorry, the number you have dialed. . ." recording. I would guess they have something to do with automatic refunding of toll charges, because the times I've botched a number on a pay phone and got the recording, the phone spits back the money I put in it right after the three tones. In this case, what would there be to stop me from playing the tones every time I get or make a phone call? I'd assume there would be some mechanism to thwart this kind of theft. David Barts Pacer Corporation davidb@pacer.uucp ...!uunet!pilchuck!pacer!davidb ------------------------------ Date: Thursday, 22 Feb 1990 13:34:32 EST From: John McHarry Subject: Directories Query Several issues back TELECOM Digest referred to criss cross (eg. Haines) and to NXX-zip code directories. I would like to know the names, addresses, and costs of some of these directories. The information might be of general enough interest to post. Thanks. *************************************************************** * John McHarry (703)883-6100 McHarry@MITRE.ORG * *************************************************************** [Moderator's Note: I am familiar with a few: Haines, R. L. Polk, Donnelly, City Publishing Co., Dresser's. Most of them only lease their book for a year at a time, and require its return when the new edition is printed. Donnelly is located in Chicago; Haines has sales offices in many cities, with their principal office in Canton, OH I believe. City Publishing Co. is in Independence, KS; they seem to concentrate on Florida and the southeastern states. Haines has a lot of coverage in the midwest and the southern states. At least Haines is also available onn microfiche. None of them are inexpensive. If you lease at least one Haines book for your own region, they allow you the free use of their telephone lookup service for all other cities they cover. PT] ------------------------------ From: gideony@microsoft.UUCP (Gideon YUVAL) Subject: Info Needed on Text-to-Speech Synthesizers Date: 22 Feb 90 22:18:12 GMT Reply-To: gideony@microsoft.UUCP (Gideon YUVAL) Organization: Microsoft Corp., Redmond WA Which companies make text-to-speech synthesizers? what price ranges and quality do they have? Thanks, Gideon Yuval, gideony@microsof.UUCP, 206-882-8080 (fax:206-883-8101;TWX:160520) ------------------------------ From: Peggy Shambo Subject: So Long and Thanks For The Fish! Reply-To: peggy@ddsw1.MCS.COM (Peggy Shambo) Organization: ddsw1.MCS.COM Contributor, Mundelein, IL Date: Wed, 21 Feb 90 12:34:45 GMT Today is the day the movers come to gather up many of my belongings. That includes the computer. *sniff* So, I hope to meet up with you folks once I am settled and am able to long on from the "other side of the pond". It has really been fun and I'm gonna miss all of ya. Peg Shambo | Scheduled date of departure for England: peggy@ddsw1.mcs.com | March 1, arriving at LHR March 2... Yay!!! | I am now an Irish Citizen, awaiting Passport [Moderator's Note: And we are going to miss you also! Please let us all hear from you as soon as you are established in your new home....and tell us all the details of the phone system there! PT] ------------------------------ Date: 21 Feb 90 07:27:36 PST (Wednesday) Subject: Xerox Voice Message Exchange From: Lee_C._Moore.WBST128@xerox.com Reply-to: Lee_C._Moore.WBST128@xerox.com Robert Kaplan asked about the Xerox Voice Message Exchange. Xerox re-sells voicemail systems from VMX, Inc. Originally, Xerox also had a XVMX system for internal use only. More recently, Xerox set up a national voice mail service for external customers. It's national in the sense that regional VMX systems can exchange messages with each other. Mr. Kaplan apparently stumbled on the system in Lexington, Mass. Lee Moore -- Xerox Webster Research Center -- +1 716 422 2496 UUCP: {allegra, cornell, decvax, rutgers}!rochester!rocksanne!lee Arpa Internet: Moore.Wbst128@Xerox.Com ------------------------------ End of TELECOM Digest V10 #120 ******************************   Received: from [129.105.5.103] by mintaka.lcs.mit.edu id aa00718; 23 Feb 90 3:50 EST Received: from mailinglists.eecs.nwu.edu by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id aa13996; 23 Feb 90 1:58 CST Received: from mailinglists.eecs.nwu.edu by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id ab08558; 23 Feb 90 0:53 CST Date: Thu, 22 Feb 90 23:50:52 CST From: TELECOM Moderator [To]: telecom@eecs.nwu.edu Subject: TELECOM Digest V10 #121 BCC: Message-ID: <9002222350.ab05226@delta.eecs.nwu.edu> TELECOM Digest Thu, 22 Feb 90 23:50:36 CST Volume 10 : Issue 121 Today's Topics: Moderator: Patrick Townson Caller ID Goodies (James Van Houten) Re: Caller ID (NOT Another Flame!) (Michael Sonnier) Southern Bell Pushes CLID Too Far (Kenneth Jongsma) The Purpose and Intent of the Legion of Doom (The Mentor - Legion of Doom) Murder By Phone (John Boteler) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 21 Feb 90 20:59:30 EST From: "James Van Houten, Exec VP" <72067.316@compuserve.com> Subject: Caller ID Goodies I would like to share some experiences that I have had with Caller*ID. I live in Maryland and am served by C&P Telephone Company (Bell Atlantic). I am serviced by a 5ESS switch and use a San-Bar Model 30F Display Unit. The feature is of great value to me as I use it for personal and Business purposes. I do not answer my phone with the number the caller is calling from and in fact do not read there number back to them. I have found that people are angered and confused if you know their number before they give it to you. I have also had problems with wrong numbers. These calls have been reduced substantially. Now for a little technical info. I have found on a 5ESS switch if a caller hangs up before the end of the first ring the display will not show the number in which the call originated, but there is a way to do this: First you call a local number like weather or time, dial a prayer, etc then flash (provided you have three way calling). When your phone rings back it will display the number of the caller who hung up on you. This is a very neat feature for one being plagued by a high-tech prankster and I must admit it stops them in their tracks. From what I have learned people served by 1ESS or 1AESS do not have this luxury but I may be wrong. If you are on a 1 or 1AESS please try it and let me know. Another advantage to Caller*ID: If you have repeat call and have several numbers in queue the Caller*ID display will give you the number that is about to ring when you pick up your phone. This is great. When I am calling clients and get a busy I just hit *66 and put them in queue. All in all Caller*ID is a plus. I am not for getting rid of Caller*ID and I do not even know if the Block Caller*ID feature is even warranted. After all if you want to call someone with Caller*ID then just dial 950-1022 and punch in your MCI pin number and off you go. At least in the DC Metro area the call comes up OUT OF AREA. I have one question. Is Caller*ID suppose to work with LATA to LATA calls? My mother in law lives in Bell of Pennsylvania and from time to time her number displays on my box. I thought that it was real strange that it does not do it all the time. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :James Van Houten HAM: KA3TTU@N4QQ : :P.O. Box 502 CI$: 72067,316 : :Temple Hills, MD 20757 72067.316@compuserve.com : :(301) 248-3300 : :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ------------------------------ From: Michael Sonnier Subject: Re: Caller ID (NOT Another Flame!) Date: 22 Feb 90 22:41:22 GMT Reply-To: 23185-Michael Sonnier Organization: Bell Communications Research In article <3966@accuvax.nwu.edu>, comcon!roy@uunet.uu.net (Roy M. Silvernail) writes: > In article <3841@accuvax.nwu.edu>, ames!ames!claris!portal!cup.portal.com! > fleming@uunet.uu.net writes: > > Why aren't the BOCs rushing to offer this (calling name delivery) > > as a solution? > > Simple... Judge Greene won't let them. Running a phone number through > > a database and flashing an associated ASCII string onto your screen > > qualifies as an information-processing service, and that's a no-no. > I haven't studied the break-up too closely, but it would seem this is > an ideal opportunity for a symbiotic service. Couldn't the private > sector produce a company to service this information-processing? And > wouldn't that be seperate from the BOC itself? Independent of who provides the database lookup, there are very real network performance issues (read $$$s) to be considered. Considering simply the volume of queries to this database that are likely, the amount of processor time sucked up on switching systems could be huge. A few moments reflection leads me to believe there are (at least) 4 major alternative ways to provide such a service (Labeled A1, A2, B1, and B2): A> Do the lookup at the originating end of the call, and pass the information in the SS7 call setup message (Initial Address Message) This has the advantage that the data can be somewhat localized. The big disadvantage is that it must be done on every call (or at least every inter-switch call) since it is not known whether the terminating party subscribes to the feature. A1> Store the data on the switch, and have the switch do the lookup There is a clear impact on the memory requirements as well as processor real time of the switch. The memory to store the ID strings, as well as indexing information to aid in rapid lookup, is huge, especially relative to some of the older technology electronic switching products that exist (and will continue to exist for a LONG time) in the network. In addition, the per call addition to average processor time used could be quite significant. A2> Store the data on a database accessed by the switch There is still some impact on the switch processor real time used, though likely smaller than case A1. However, some delay is added to the processing of each call (and remember that 100ms is considered large when dealing in Initial Response Time for call setup), causing both a degradation of service for customers, but also increasing the holding time of every call at the switch resulting in increased usage of switch resources (e.g., either need to pay for more resources or decrease the capacity of the switch). Cases A1 and A2 are especially painful since they must be processed on (almost) every call in the network. This makes these alternatives essentially infeasible, since the marginal cost will be quite high, especially if few people subscribe to the service. B> Do the lookup at the terminating end of the call: This has the advantage that you only need the lookup if the terminating party subscribes to the feature. B1> Store the data on the switch All of the same concerns as case A1 apply, with the magnification that the database for all network users, not just those served by this switch, must be stored at each switch. Clearly not a feasible approach! B2> Store the data on a database accessed by the switch Again, either the data will need to be copied many places in the network (i.e., near each switch) or these data queries will involve lengthy distances. In the first case, data must still be duplicated, which is very costly both in terms of equipment and overhead to populate and maintain the many copies of the data in a coordinated fashion. The second case is similar to case A2, except the cost per query will be much higher, consuming more resources due to the distance. In addition, the anticipated delay in call processing will probably be larger due to the distance. Again, the cost in terms of network capacity could be large for alternatives B1 and B2. Though there is an order of magnitude decrease in the number of data lookups to be perfomed over the A cases, the cost per lookup and the delay resulting are larger. And I haven't even gotten into the difficulties where inter-LATA calls are involved! (Yes, I know that calling number display doesn't apply today on inter-LATA calls, but that doesn't mean it won't ever.) The prospect of some third party providing the data lookup for the TelCo is very scary. Not only do all of the above concerns exist, but there are many significant new concerns: the delay properties of the network, service reliability, and quality of the network provided service are largely out of the TelCo's control. Who are you going to call when the service doesn't work properly? Who's going to get flamed when call setup takes longer? I must point out that I have not studied this area in any depth. I do not mean to suggest that such a service cannot or will not be offered, or even that such a service is not under consideration. Frankly, I don't work on this, and just don't know whether or not that is the case. My only purpose in writing this is to point out that there are significant technical hurdles to providing such a service, and that such a service MAY potentially be very costly. How much would YOU be willing to pay for such a service? SPECIAL DISCAIMER: This is presented solely as my opinion, and has no connection in any manner whatsoever to the opinions of my employer. I make no claim as to the accuracy or quality of the opinions presented, nor to their relationship to anything, or anyone. Any similarity to persons, places, things, or ideas living or dead is purely coincidental. Michael J. Sonnier @ Bellcore; Navesink Research & Engineering Center Logical: [...]!bellcore!nvuxg!mjs1 | Audible: (201) 758-5787 Physical: 331 Newman Springs Rd #2Z419; Red Bank, NJ 07701 "Trust us; we're the phone company and we're here to help you; WE know what's best!" ;-) Disclaimer: How can you infer this is the opinion of my employer? I don't even know if it's mine yet! ------------------------------ From: ken@cup.portal.com Subject: Southern Bell Pushes CLID Too Far Date: Wed, 21-Feb-90 06:14:51 PST I was sound asleep when the clock radio went off this morning, but in the fog of waking up, I heard an interesting story re: Caller ID and Southern Bell. It seems that the North Carolina Attorney General is a little ticked off at Southern Bell. Apparently, he came into possesion of a Southern Bell memo, directing Southern Bell employees to write to the state Public Utilities Commision to lobby in favor of Caller ID. This in itself was not the largest problem, but rather that the employees were instructed to hide their work affiliation and use a ficticious occupation. The example in the memo was an owner of a pizza parlor writing to say how much Caller ID would help cut down on phony orders. Interesting, no? I think this is the first time an RBOC has been so blatent in trying to pressure the PUC. Ken Jongsma ken@cup.portal.com ------------------------------ From: Legion of Doom Subject: The Purpose and Intent of the Legion of Doom Date: 22 Feb 90 04:42:04 GMT Organization: Anytown USA [Moderator's Note: This anonymous message came in the mail today. PT] Well, I had to speak up. There has been a lot of frothing (mostly by people who believe everything that they read in the paper) about Legion of Doom. I have been involved in the group since 1987, and dislike seeing irresponsible press concerning our "plot to crash 911" or our "links to organized crime." LOD was formed to bring together the best minds from the computer underground - not to do any damage or for personal profit, but to share experiences and discuss computing. The group has *always* maintained the highest ethical standards of hacker (or "cracker," as you prefer) ethics. On many occasions, we have acted to prevent abuse of systems that were *dangerous* to be out - from government systems to Easter Seals systems. I have known the people involved in this 911 case for many years, and there was *absolutely* no intent to interfere with or molest the 911 system in any manner. While we have occasionally entered a computer that we weren't supposed to be in, it is grounds for expulsion from the group and social ostracism to do any damage to a system or to attempt to commit fraud for personal profit. The biggest crime that has been committed is that of curiosity. Kim, your 911 system is safe (from us, at least). We have been instrumental in closing many security holes in the past, and had hoped to continue to do so in the future. The list of computer security people who count us as allies is long, but must remain anonymous. If any of them choose to identify themselves, we would appreciate the support. I am among the people who no longer count themselves as "active" members of the group. I have been "retired" for well over a year. But I continue to talk to active members daily, and support the group through this network feed, which is mail-routed to other LODers, both active and accessible. Anyone who has any questions is welcome to mail us - you'll find us friendly, although a bit wary. We will also be glad to talk voice with anyone if they wish to arrange a time to call. In spite of all the media garbage, we consider ourselves an ethical, positive force in computing and computer security. We hope others will as well. The Mentor/Legion of Doom legion%anytown.uucp@cs.utexas.edu [Moderator's Note: As an 'ethical, positive force in computing', why can't you sign your name to messages such as the above? Usually I don't even consider anonymous messages for publication in the Digest; but your organization has a perfect right to tell your side of the story, and I am derelict if I don't print it. Real names and addresses go a long way toward closing credibility gaps here. PT] ------------------------------ Subject: Murder By Phone Date: Wed, 21 Feb 90 2:48:25 EST From: John Boteler Anyone who wants a good kick on a rainy day should at least thrice in his life view the movie "Murder By Phone", which was re-released under the title "Bells". The plot (?) concerns a madman who conducts his trade by placing a phone call to the victim, then pulsing energy down the line until the earpiece explodes. The real fun is all the bogus dialog: "Goddamit, I started as a lineman, I know how long it takes to trace a call!!!" spoken by the president of The Telephone Company; the scenes of selectors and test sets in a Stepper office, dubbed 'ESS' in the movie! A MUST for anyone in the business. Most video rental stores have this one; ask for it. John Boteler NCN NudesLine: 703-241-BARE -- VOICE only, Touch-Tone (TM) accessible {zardoz|uunet!tgate|cos!}ka3ovk!media!csense!bote [Moderator's Note: This appeared first in print under the title 'Tandem Rush' about fifteen years ago. The villian, when finally identified, turns out to be a surprise, (and to me at least) the least expected one of the bunch. Obviously the dude would not be a fan of Caller-ID. Something tells me The Mentor and other members of the Legion of Doom don't like Caller-ID very much either. :) PT] ------------------------------ End of TELECOM Digest V10 #121 ******************************   Received: from delta.eecs.nwu.edu by mintaka.lcs.mit.edu id aa08324; 23 Feb 90 6:10 EST Received: from mailinglists.eecs.nwu.edu by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id aa04134; 23 Feb 90 4:07 CST Received: from mailinglists.eecs.nwu.edu by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id ab16635; 23 Feb 90 3:03 CST Date: Fri, 23 Feb 90 2:01:03 CST From: TELECOM Moderator [To]: telecom@eecs.nwu.edu Subject: TELECOM Digest V10 #123 BCC: Message-ID: <9002230201.ab05737@delta.eecs.nwu.edu> TELECOM Digest Fri, 23 Feb 90 02:00:35 CST Volume 10 : Issue 123 Today's Topics: Moderator: Patrick Townson Communications with the Deaf (Ken Harrenstien) The Wrong End of the Telescope (John Higdon) AT&T/Japan (Joe Talbot) AT&T Bug (from RISKS) (John Owens) Questions About SONET (Henning Schulzrinne) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 21 Feb 90 15:29:11 PST From: Ken Harrenstien Subject: Communications with the Deaf Naturally, as soon as I get bored and look away for a couple weeks, something interesting finally pops up! I see that the basic points have been covered pretty well by Curtis Reid (howdy!) and others, so I just have some more-or-less scattered comments to make. Regarding: [Moderator's Note: Your comments about AT&T pretty well sum up what I said earlier: Both AT&T and the Bell Companies have always been very responsive to the needs of their handicapped customers. Neither MCI or Sprint seem concerned at all. AT&T spends *a lot* of money staffing and maintaining 800-855-1155 around the clock 365 days per year. PT] I would have to respectfully disagree, particularly where the "Bell Companies" are concerned. In most cases that I'm aware of, the telcos had to be dragged kicking and screaming into providing handicapped services (let's see, is that "services for the handicapped" or "services that are handicapped"?). You just don't hear about that part because the instigators don't have an advertising budget. After the fact, of course, the existence of these services is always good copy. The 800/855-1155 TDD operator service is STRICTLY an operator service. They do not relay calls, and as far as I know, no one is currently providing an interstate relay service, which is a source of great frustration as I personally must make a lot of voice calls out of state (how many of you do this daily?). Without access to interpreters at work, I would have no recourse other than to ask friends to make the calls for me, which has a greasy feeling akin to begging for quarters in the street. The California Relay Service here is reportedly working with the telcos and LD carriers to figure out how they can incorporate interstate LD charges into their billing system. It's obviously not a new idea, but no one knows when it will finally happen. So AT&T spends *a lot* of money on 800/855-1155? So what? I pay AT&T *a lot* of money for my toll calls. Remember that they spend *many megalots* of money on everything else, and at any rate the connections between services and charges have historically been exceedingly tenuous (a famous example is LD subsidized by local calls). ----------------------- Hmmmm. Anyway, about TDDs themselves. There is no shortage of ideas for them, but the big problem is the lack of a market, or rather the perception thereof. At SRI International in 1977-78 we (primarily Wolfram & Fylstra) developed a portable TDD, about a handset-breadth wide and a third that in depth, which could handle both Baudot/Weitbrecht and ASCII/103 (the latter at either 110 or 300 baud) -- they used an ingenious trick to fool a single modem chip into supporting both. This even included a tiny integral printer cannibalized from a HP calculator, and unlike many "modern" TDDs it could generate and represent the complete ASCII character set. Four working prototypes were built. This development was funded by a HEW grant, and the main idea was to come up with something useful enough to the commercial world that the device could be mass-produced in enough quantity to be available at low cost to deaf users. A secondary motivation was to start shifting the TDD standard from Baudot/Weitbrecht to conventional datacomm protocols as soon as possible; I trust the reasons are obvious. Unfortunately, not one company in the US or abroad, including TDD manufacturers, was interested in producing it. Why? Many piddly reasons, but basically, no one was convinced that a "sufficient" market existed for that particular device. (SRI does non-profit R&D only, by the way.) It wasn't until some clever people slipped bills through state legislatures forcing the telcos to provide TDDs to hearing-impaired subscribers (and collect the money from other rate-payers) that manufacturers suddenly sat up and saw dollar signs. In California, at least, there are very good reasons to suspect that one struggling TDD manufacturer was responsible for the original bill, in hopes that the company would reap a windfall in telco orders. Ironically, they're long gone by now, while their good deed (such as it was) has survived and been propagated to a number of other states. But you (being a technically literate group) wouldn't believe what kinds of nonsense the telcos, and even some TDD manufacturers, trotted out at the PUC hearings over the issue of just what a "free" TDD should consist of. At the time all this happened (ca 1980) I sent long reports of the proceedings to, let's see, I think it was HUMAN-NETS at the time; I don't think TELECOM existed that far back. Basically the groups were divided into two camps: in one, the minions of Evil (Pacific Bell, GTE, Plantronics, others) opined that Baudot was "good enough for 'em", and in the other, the forces of Good (deaf organizations, Novation, SRI, others) argued for requiring dual-capability devices. At the time, the ability to someday access VANs (Value-Added Network) was an important issue, as this would permit TDD users to pay for LD-like services on a data rather than time basis, and we were already heavily engaged in experiments with "Deafnet" (e-mail services accessible via either standard). To simplify a complicated story, the final outcome was a flawed compromise which resulted in a small selection of TDDs that advertise a poorly defined "ASCII capability", more or less useless for anything but talking to other TDDs. Meanwhile, Baudot-only TDDs are still being churned out and sold. All of the few manufacturers left really and truly believe that this is what the market wants -- simplified, 3-row, rock-bottom Baudot/Weitbrecht TDDs. If adding ASCII/103 capabilities means just one more key, or just one more chip, or even just one more diode, they won't do it because it would be "too expensive". If not that, then it's "too complicated". The depressing thing is that, for the most part, the market appears to agree with them. There's an interesting backflow effect of technological advance here. It's true that better technology and a broader market has made it much easier and cheaper to use ASCII/103 standards in TDDs. However, it has also made it just as easy and cheap to perpetuate the Baudot/ Weitbrecht standard, whether or not it makes sense! A truly delicious example of this, which ranks right up there with narrow-necked ketchup bottles and stinging antiseptics, is the LETS/FIGS shift keys. Because the original TDDs were actually discarded Baudot TTYs (I used to have a Model 28 -- an amazing beast) with LETS and FIGS shifts as described by a recent message, they were much more awkward to use than a regular typewriter, even for (especially for?) anyone with some typing skills. You'd think that the advent of electronic TDDs would mean that the little CPU inside could take care of the LETS/FIGS shift state, right? Right. But, as you must have guessed by now, that's not what they did. For a long time the great majority of new TDDs persisted in retaining a LETS/FIGS key pair, sometimes disguised as "upshift" and "downshift". I no longer keep close track of the TDD market, but I'm sure you can still find many TDDs still being made with this amazing tribute to backwards user compatibility. ------------------------------------ One last thing. How relevant is any of this to most readers? Well, let me toss in one final statistic for your consideration: the median age of the hearing-impaired population is over 60. How long do you plan to live? Ken ------------------------------ Reply-To: John Higdon Subject: The Wrong End of the Telescope Date: 21 Feb 90 19:54:49 PST (Wed) From: John Higdon In TELECOM Digest Volume 10 : Issue 118 you write: > People just can't seem to grasp the fact that a group of 20 year old > kids just might know a little more than they do, and rather than make > good use of us, they would rather just lock us away and keep on > letting things pass by them. I've said this before, you cant stop > burglars from robbing you when you leave the doors unlocked and merely > bash them in the head with baseball bats when they walk in. You need > to lock the door. But when you leave the doors open, but lock up the > people who can close them for you another burglar will just walk right > in. I heartily agree. The standard mode is to develop new technology, or new uses for existing technology and give little or no thought how you keep it secure for the users. In the early days of any new procedure, the security rests in the reality that few people even know that such a thing exists. But this form of "security" is fleeting, since it takes little time for the curious to discover it and to find its weaknesses. Then phase two of the standard mode kicks in, and the developers and users manage to convince law enforcement authorities that criminal minds are at work when their technology is breached. Can you imagine the indignation and anger of someone who has discovered that his small business is being answered after hours by an outgoing announcement on the machine that is full of obscenities? The business owner would certainly be thinking to himself, "There ought to be a law...". But what he should be reflecting upon is the silliness of relying on two-digit "security" code to protect him from such pranking. This applies to computers, telephone systems, in fact everything. Those who leave their systems "open" to the public should expect the curious to enter and look around. Banks don't keep their negotiable instruments in a closet secured with a hasp and padlock, then expect the police to go after everyone that makes off with the goods. They use concrete and steel vaults secured with sophisticated time locks. Sure, even these can be broken into, but it requires the resources beyond the casual criminal. Likewise, there are computer systems that are, indeed, relatively secure, and entry to these systems is beyond the means of the average hacker. I don't for one minute think that any hacker would be interested in any of my stuff, but I take reasonable precautions to prevent casual entry. My client's DISA is protected with a seven-digit code that allows one attempt and then hangs up if unsuccessful. Likewise my Watson is protected with a long code. I review the logins on my computers daily and change the root passwords regularly. For any commercial or government entity to do less is in itself criminal. To then go after "hackers" for simply walking in the relatively open door and prosecute them is an offense. A little story: A few years ago, I was dialing around in the "test number" area looking for interesting test numbers and happen to stumble on one that returned this message: "Your number has been recorded and you will be billed for this call. Also, your parents will be notified." I didn't stop laughing for a week. John Higdon | P. O. Box 7648 | +1 408 723 1395 john@bovine.ati.com | San Jose, CA 95150 | M o o ! ------------------------------ From: Joe Talbot Subject: AT&T/Japan Date: 21 Feb 90 12:59:23 GMT Organization: Info Connections, Tokyo, Japan Who determines "fair market value"? The Merlin is a very basic key system, yet AT&T's prices are the highest in the industry, including Comdial (a US based manufacturer). I have no problem with AT&T charging what they think the system is worth, but I DO have a problem with them telling everyone else what their own stuff ought to be worth. Perhaps the reason Matshushita/Panasonic got the worst of all the garbage was because the KX-T series hybrids were the most serious threat. Most of the others, are not a threat and are, in fact largely garbage. The Panasonic sets are up to what I would consider the old bell system standard as far as sound quality, reliability and intuitive operation. It appears that Panasonic did a really complete job of researching the american marketplace before creating this system, if only AT&T would have done the same! Everyone I know HATES the stupid toy handset and I find it difficult to understand the four pair cabling when everyone else seems content to use two pairs. After a few years of people complaining about the membrane "keys", it looks like they've changed that to real buttons (wow). Even the taiwaneese garbaphones don't have membrane keys. And throw in the "service" and parts prices/availability for when you finally give up and try to do it yourself and FORGET IT! I've been working with the Japaneese over the last few weeks and I will tell you that they are VERY competive and not always honest (especially with us foreign folks) but this dumping stuff is pretty silly. I must congratulate the AT&T folks who have been quite restrained in this matter. Please note that this is not an invitation to flame. I'm typing this on an AT&T computer, in front of me are 4 AT&T 6386wgs computers. I use AT&T long distance. And I just ordered a case of 2500 sets because I CAN'T STAND THE TOY PHONES they have here (exclusively). They will of course be plugged into the KX-T61610 coming with them. Stranded in Japan Joe Talbot "What am I doing here?" Voice Mail 011-813-944-6221 After the prompt: 824 2424 ------------------------------ Organization: SMART HOUSE Limited Partnership Subject: AT&T Bug (from RISKS) Date: 21 Feb 90 15:04:35 EST (Wed) From: John Owens [If you haven't already seen this, here's the bug in the CCS7 software.] From: kent@wsl.dec.com, via db@cs.purdue.edu, via RISKS Subject: AT&T Bug Date: Fri Jan 19 12:18:33 1990 This is the bug that cause the AT&T breakdown the other day (no, it wasn't an MCI virus): In the switching software (written in C), there was a long "do . . . while" construct, which contained a "switch" statement, which contained an "if" clause, which contained a "break," which was intended for the "if" clause, but instead broke from the "switch" statement. ["break" never breaks an "if", only "switch"es, "do"s, and "while"s.] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 90 16:17 EST From: Henning Schulzrinne Subject: Questions About SONET I have a number of questions regarding SONET, the Bellcore-standard Synchronous Optical NETwork. 1. Are there any readily accessible papers (i.e., not just some standard) containing details on SONET, beyond the paper in the March 1989 issue of the IEEE Communications Magazine? I am especially interested in motivations of certain design decisions, not just "that's how it is and there is nothing you can do about it". 2. Why was the row size set to 90 bytes? As it is, ATM packets will have to be broken across rows. 3. How do ATM and SONET interact? What gets switched where? 4. What is the advantage of interleaving ``header'' information throughout the frame, rather than concentrating it at the beginning of a frame? Why are the payload pointers put a number of rows after the beginning of the frame, so that I have to wait until I can determine where the payload begins? 5. Why was the path overhead made part of the payload rather than the header? 6. What is the implementation status of SONET? Thanks for any help or pointers to people who might know. If there is enough interest, I will summarize to the Digest. Henning Schulzrinne (HGSCHULZ@CS.UMASS.EDU) Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering University of Massachusetts at Amherst Amherst, MA 01003 - USA === phone: +1 (413) 545-3179 (EST); FAX: (413) 545-1249 ------------------------------ End of TELECOM Digest V10 #123 ******************************   Received: from delta.eecs.nwu.edu by mintaka.lcs.mit.edu id aa03018; 23 Feb 90 13:45 EST Received: from mailinglists.eecs.nwu.edu by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id aa04181; 22 Feb 90 23:48 CST Received: from mailinglists.eecs.nwu.edu by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id aa23567; 22 Feb 90 22:42 CST Date: Thu, 22 Feb 90 21:51:22 CST From: TELECOM Moderator [To]: telecom@eecs.nwu.edu Subject: TELECOM Digest V10 #119 BCC: Message-ID: <9002222151.ab28906@delta.eecs.nwu.edu> TELECOM Digest Thu, 22 Feb 90 21:50:31 CST Volume 10 : Issue 119 Today's Topics: Moderator: Patrick Townson Dial A Lawyer (TELECOM Moderator) Re: AT&T Behind Blocking of Japanese Business Phone Systems? (Jim Gottlieb) Re: Sprint Plus Rebate (Joel B. Levin) Re: More 800, 900 Curiosities (Steve Forrette) Re: Toll Free But Not 800 (Joel B. Levin) Re: Prevalence of 10xxx Dialing (David Barts) Re: Prevalence of 10xxx Dialing (Bill Huttig) Re: Prevalence of 10xxx Dialing (Randal Schwartz) Re: MCI Playing "Switcheroo" (Jerry Leichter) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 21 Feb 90 2:39:56 CST From: TELECOM Moderator Subject: Dial A Lawyer Michael Berch wrote an article to the Digest Wednesday discussing a new telephone legal service where a group a lawyers man a bank of 900 phone lines and give legal advice for $3 per minute. Unfortunatly, due to a mechanical error here at delta.eecs the message was lost. I hope the author will resubmit it. Fortunatly, that was the only message lost. The queue had been flushed and his message came in just as I was finishing up for the night. Patrick Townson ------------------------------ From: Jim Gottlieb Subject: Re: AT&T Behind Blocking of Japanese Business Phone Systems? Date: 22 Feb 90 11:26:09 GMT Reply-To: Jim Gottlieb Organization: Info Connections, Tokyo, Japan In article <4043@accuvax.nwu.edu> John Higdon writes: >Oh, and another thing. US companies having a hard time selling things >in Japan has less to do with the Japanese government regulations and >more to do with not making anything the Japanese consumer wants to buy >than you may realize. Where, for instance, Matsushita carefully sized >up the North American market when designing the KX-T series equipment, >most US firms put no effort into analyzing the Japanese market for >their goods. "Hey, if it's good enough for Americans...." Seeing Japanese key systems in the U.S., one might assume that they just send us the same models they sell at home (except for the KX people who are not allowed to sell at home). But after spending the last six months here in the telecom industry and using phones quite often, I see that this is clearly not the case. Most of the systems shipped to the U.S. are quite different from what is sold here at home. Following are the differences I have noticed: Key telephone sets in Japan allow the user to adjust the receive volume. This is actually quite handy when talking in very crowded, very noisy Japanese offices. This is done without raising sidetone volume. I have never seen a key system here with voice announce or paging capabilities. Again, this is probably due to the fact that a typical one-person office in the U.S. would have up to ten people in it here. The systems they export allow the connection of an external music-on-hold source. All systems here have IC-generated "Greensleeves" or "Home On The Range" with no ability to change this. Similarly, key system sets can be programmed to play melodies (again, public-domain ones) when the phone rings. Interestingly, the original KX-T616 came with Greensleeves, but also allowed one to substitute an external source. The MOH chip was eliminated in the 61610 upgrade. I have not yet seen a system here that will let the user generate touch-tones of user-desired length. Key systems here do not allow the user to conference two outside lines. And until very recently, they did not include the ability to flash the outside trunks. Domestic-use systems look for a reversal on outside trunks to indicate supervision. This then starts a timer on the display. Many systems can also be equipped with a rate chip, which allows the cost of the current call to be displayed. There is far too much use of pulse dialing on outside trunks due to NTT's ripoff touch-tone charges. Therefore, many people still use pulse and Japanese key systems reflect this in their ability to switch between 10 or 20 pulses-per-second. Most single-line sets here have a button one pushes to switch to tone-dialing in the middle of a call so that it is easy to dial out with pulse and then enter tones to an interactive service. The tone plant is different. In Japan, 400Hz tones are used for dial tone, busy, and ringing. Many internal dial tones here sound like a "reorder" (120ipm) to me. Here one dials "0" to access an outside line. The systems they ship to the U.S. use "9". On the other hand, the building we rent space in has shared-tenant service served off of a Mitsubishi Melstar, aka IBM ROLM 9751. The only changes they made for this market were the tone plant and dial "0" for outside. The sets are the same ones they use in the U.S. and have not been adapted at all to the Japanese market. They _do_ have a volume control for instance, but raising the receive volume also boosts the sidetone making it useless in a noisy room. The sets are the usual lousy-in-any-country ROLMphones. I _HATE_ them. I am embarrassed that we ship them such a monster. But that's another story. Or is it? Jim Gottlieb Info Connections, Tokyo, Japan _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ or or Fax: (011)+81-3-237-5867 Voice Mail: (011)+81-3-222-8429 ------------------------------ From: "Joel B. Levin" Subject: Re: Sprint Plus Rebate Date: Wed, 21 Feb 90 09:54:40 EST From: ken@cup.portal.com >For those of us that signed up for Sprint Plus last year, it will pay >to examine your January bill very closely. . . . >Anyway, last fall Sprint was running a promotion that promised a free >month of long distance if you signed up. Well, not exactly. What you >really were to get was a credit on your January bill for your December >calls, up to a limit of $25. >My bill rolled around and no credit. A polite 10 minute call to Sprint >got me an apology and a promise of the $25 credit on my next bill. We >shall see... The fine print in the promotional material stated that the maximum credit would be $25. I had no problem with that, or the $8 minimum, as our interstate bill typically exceeds $60. The $25 rebate obviously more than made up for the $5 changeover fee (which I paid for once :-)). I received the credit on schedule. There is a separate program whereby you sign up and get 10 points for every dollar you spend; no extra cost, just an added promotion to persuade you to use Sprint. The "prizes" are not impressive. /JBL ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 90 13:42:16 PST From: Steve Forrette Subject: Re: More 800, 900 Curiosities Organization: University of California, Berkeley In article <4144@accuvax.nwu.edu> you write: >You got timed out while the local MCI switch was polling the 2 VAX's >they use for 800 number lookup. >And then there was this one time when both VAX's died for 45 minutes.... If it is true that just 2 VAXes (or the leased lines going to them) going down can bring down the entire MCI 800 system, perhaps AT&T's promise of 1 hour service restoration for downed 800 lines isn't all that half-baked... ------------------------------ From: "Joel B. Levin" Subject: Re: Toll Free But Not 800 Date: Wed, 21 Feb 90 10:16:48 EST From: Ken Levitt >I just received a beeper with what seems like a rather unique phone >number. The phone number is 617-230-xxxx. Calls to this number are >free when dialed from anywhere in the 617 or 508 area codes (except >from COCOTs). When I first got the phone number, I wanted to confirm >with New England Telephone that this truly was a toll free call. > . . .I called the operator and asked about this special >exchange. She knew nothing about it and told me to call the business >office. . . . >I was finally able to confirm the toll free status of this number by >going to a "real" New England Telephone payphone. It really worked >without having to deposit any money. . . . NET has a number of special exchanges they play games on. In Massachusetts, there was a special number (on 525? Isn't that currently the equivalent of 976 elsewhere?) when the lottery started where one could find out the previous day's number for $.25 a throw. There are the reserved MEridian-7 and WEather-6 which give time and weather regardless of the last four digits dialled (regular charges applied, however). In the '70s both NET and AT&T Long Lines (for instance) could be reached at the SHerwood-3 exchange, supposedly toll free (though I never was sure about that). There was a free number (no message units) for dialling the mobile or marine operator (I forget which); it turned out that its NNX was completely equivalent to another NNX which, however, cost message units; the exchanges were interchangeable regardless of the last four digits and the free exchange could be used to call other numbers on the equivalent exchange for free. Finally, in New Hampshire, the telco business office for residence service throughout the state is reached at 1-645-3700 but is toll free. I just found some funny business about the numbers for business service in the phone book, but the details are too messy to go into. (If you call the above number from out of state you are supposed to call it collect. If it is answered by machine at a busy time, the recording starts out with an instruction to long distance operators that the call will be accepted. I don't suppose that will help much if you call from one of the NET pay phones with the new automated collect calling service (-: ). /JBL bbn@levin.com | "There were sweetheart roses on Yancey Wilmerding's ...!bbn!levin | bureau that morning. Wide-eyed and distraught, she (617)873-3463 | stood with all her faculties rooted to the floor." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 90 00:26:25 pst From: David Barts Subject: Re: Prevalence of 10xxx Dialing Randal Schwartz writes: > 'course, this works only in those areas that have 10XXX (Feature Group D?) > dialing. > Is that everywhere *except* the backwaters of GTE Northwest, now? Or > are there still many places that don't have 10XXX dialing? When I lived in Richland, WA two years ago, their exchange was GTE and the 10xxx codes worked. In fact, GTE being GTE, I *had* to use 10xxx for several months until I got 1+ service connected. David Barts Pacer Corporation davidb@pacer.uucp ...!uunet!pilchuck!pacer!davidb ------------------------------ From: Bill Huttig Subject: Re: Prevalence of 10xxx Dialing Date: 21 Feb 90 16:57:47 GMT Reply-To: Bill Huttig Organization: Florida Institute of Technology, ACS, Melbourne, FL In article <4141@accuvax.nwu.edu> John Cowan writes: X-Telecom-Digest: Volume 10, Issue 116, message 8 of 8 >(I suppose that GTE comes under the terms of the MFJ because it owns >Sprint. True or false?) GTE only owns a small part of US Sprint < 20% United Telephone owns the rest. If the MFJ applied to GTE it should also apply to United. ------------------------------ From: Randal Schwartz Subject: Re: Prevalence of 10xxx Dialing Reply-To: Randal Schwartz Organization: Stonehenge; netaccess via Intel, Beaverton, Oregon, USA Date: Wed, 21 Feb 90 17:05:30 GMT In article <4141@accuvax.nwu.edu>, cowan@marob (John Cowan) writes: | As I understand it, only Bell (ex-AT&T) telcos plus GTE must offer | this service, and lots of local independent telcos don't. Taconic | Telephone, for example, the first all-digital local telco in the | country, has no plans to offer any LD carrier except AT&T. | (I suppose that GTE comes under the terms of the MFJ because it owns | Sprint. True or false?) But that's what *I* asked about! This *is* GTE, and they are *not* providing 10XXX service in this area. (I can get three-way calling, cancel call waiting, and all sorts of other electronic features, but I still have to call 950-xxxx to get to the alternate LD services.) So, what percentage of the customers are never going to have the choice for each phone call? 'course, what am I griping about... at least I get a dialtone most of the time. :-) Just another name in the phone book (many, many times!), /=Randal L. Schwartz, Stonehenge Consulting Services (503)777-0095 ==========\ | on contract to Intel's iWarp project, Beaverton, Oregon, USA, Sol III | | merlyn@iwarp.intel.com ...!any-MX-mailer-like-uunet!iwarp.intel.com!merlyn | \=Cute Quote: "Welcome to Portland, Oregon, home of the California Raisins!"=/ ------------------------------ From: Leichter-Jerry@cs.yale.edu Subject: Re: MCI Playing "Switcheroo" Date: 17 Feb 90 14:42:03 EST Organization: Yale Computer Center (YCC) Having spent a lot of time among lawyers, I'll comment on this: In article <3962@accuvax.nwu.edu>, Mike.Riddle@p6.f666.n285.z1.fidonet.org (Mike Riddle) writes: > In a recent article, John Higdon wrote that in the future we might > have to have everything in writing. > I'm not a lawyer, but as I understand it, someone alleging a verbal > contract must be able to prove it. That might be difficult. Absolutely. As a general principle in the law, verbal contracts are valid. (There are exceptions, but they are in very specific circumstances and usually by statute.) Non-lawyers often make the mistake of assuming that there is some inherent connection between VALIDITY and USEFULNESS. Yes, a verbal contract is valid - once you can prove what was agreed to. And "prove" means "convince a court". The burden of finding a way to convince the court is entirely up to you. In many cases, both sides agree that something was agreed to, but disagree on the details. I suppose cases arise in which one side or another just plain denies that an agreement was ever reached. On the surface, such cases come down to one side's word against the other. However, there is often evidence available. If I claim we reached an agree- ment for me to paint your house, and I show up with paint, that's at least some evidence that I believed it. If you covered all your furniture with tarps, that's some evidence that you also believed it. We present all of our bits of evidence, and the court decides which of us it believes. > The concept of "unjust enrichment," however, might still be a problem. > I understand that most states have a "Statute of Frauds" that requires > some evidence of certain contracts be in writing to avoid these kinds > of problems. Covered contracts might include real estate, duration > one year, or value specified amount. The Statute of Frauds is a very old part of the Common Law which says that verbal contracts for future performance in the amount of more than $1000 are not enforceable. Essentially, the Statute says that when you are dealing with something that may remain intangible for a while (future performance) and the amount is large enough to be worth worrying about (the Statute goes back hundreds of years; the original amount must have been in pounds. $1000 200 years ago was a LOT of money) then put the damn thing on paper. BTW, the Statute of Frauds is not a statute - it was created, like most of the Common Law, by judicial precedent - and, as you can see, has nothing much to do with frauds! As a result of the bizarre history of the Common Law, real estate is not transfered by contract but by registration of a deed. Hence, it is inherently impossible to have a verbal transfer of real estate. You CAN have a contract in which you agree to transfer a deed later, and in fact that is the way most real estate deals work. Such a contract would almost certainly fall under the Statute of Frauds, even if not otherwise regulated. BTW, the law of 49 of the United States is based on Common Law. Louisiana law, on the other hand, is based on the Napoleanic Codes. There are a LOT of differences - one very obvious difference is that under the Napoleanic Codes a criminal defendant is GUILTY until proven INNOCENT. I doubt this particular difference has survived in Louisiana, but a lot of others have. > While not a complete answer, the Statute of Frauds might at least help > protect for excessive losses. -- Jerry ------------------------------ End of TELECOM Digest V10 #119 ****************************** ISSUES 116 THROUGH 123 ARRIVED SCRAMBLED IN ORDER, BUT ALL ARE PRESENT. 122 IS NEXT.   Received: from delta.eecs.nwu.edu by mintaka.lcs.mit.edu id aa25342; 23 Feb 90 18:44 EST Received: from mailinglists.eecs.nwu.edu by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id aa16635; 23 Feb 90 3:03 CST Received: from mailinglists.eecs.nwu.edu by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id ab13996; 23 Feb 90 1:58 CST Date: Fri, 23 Feb 90 0:56:16 CST From: TELECOM Moderator [To]: telecom@eecs.nwu.edu Subject: TELECOM Digest V10 #122 BCC: Message-ID: <9002230056.ab08164@delta.eecs.nwu.edu> TELECOM Digest Fri, 23 Feb 90 00:55:57 CST Volume 10 : Issue 122 Today's Topics: Moderator: Patrick Townson DCL Procedure for London Area Code Split (John R. Covert) London Code Changes (Mark Brader) CLI in CA (Rick Farris) Does 976 Know Who You Are? (Rick Farris) Cellular Stuff (David Leibold) Re: Centrex and 9xxx Numbers (Curtis E. Reid) Foreign Companies in the US (Rajeev B. Patil) MCI and Imaginary Calling Card Numbers (Nutsy Fagen) Introducing the $6 Answering Machine from New England Telephone (H. Mensch) Another Irresistable Deal From Sprint? (Wayne Hamilton) Information Needed on ROLMPhones (Bill Darden) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 21 Feb 90 07:10:35 PST From: "John R. Covert 21-Feb-1990 0950" Subject: DCL Procedure for London Area Code Split $! $! London.com -- determine new area code for London numbers $! $! usage is @london exchange, e.g. @london 264 $! $ on error then goto usage $ on warning then goto usage $ exch = 0'p1' $ if exch .lt. 200 .or. exch .gt. 999 then goto usage $! $ l2 = "8-888888887-7777-777777777777777777777777777777777" +- "77777777777777-77777777777777777-77-777788-8-8-888" $ l3 = "88888878888888878888777777777787877888788888-88888" +- "777777777788-888888-77777777777777777777888888-888" $ l4 = "77777777777777777778888887888877777777778888888888" +- "88887887888888878888888778778877777777777777777777" $ l5 = "8888888888777787788888788788-888888887788888888878" +- "8888888888888888888888888888887777777777888888-888" $ l6 = "77777777777777-7--7777777777777777777777888888888-" +- "88-888888888-8888888888888888888888888888888887888" $ l7 = "77777-77777777777-77777777777777777777778888888888" +- "888788878888-88-8888887877888788888888887777777-77" $ l8 = "8888888888-8------7777777-7777-7777777778888888888" +- "888888888888888887888877888888-888888-8888888--888" $ l9 = "8788888888-77887777-777777-777777777777788888-8888" +- "8888877788887888-888-7778-787888-8888788-88888-88-" $! $ exchhi = exch/100 $ digit = F$extract(exch-(exchhi*100),1,l'exchhi') $ if digit .eqs. "-" $then $ write sys$output "Exchange ",exch," is invalid." $else $ write sys$output "0",digit,"1-",exch $endif $ exit $usage: $ write sys$output "Usage of this procedure is as follows:" $ write sys$output "" $ write sys$output " @london exchange" $ write sys$output "" $ write sys$output " Where exchange is the first three digits of a valid"+- " London number." $ write sys$output " Exchanges range from 2xx through 9xx." $ exit [Moderator's Note: See also issue 117 for a perl script doing the same thing if you prefer that instead. PT] ------------------------------ From: Mark Brader Subject: London Code Changes Date: Tue, 20 Feb 90 16:26:00 EST Here's the same information that Peter Collinson kindly posted, but reformatted in a form more convenient for people who have to deal with only a few London numbers and would rather just look them up manually or grep in this article. The following London prefixes change on May 6, 1990, from dialing code 01 (international +44 1) to 071 (international +44 71): (71) 210 212 213 214 215 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 (71) 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 (71) 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 (71) 260 261 262 263 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 (71) 277 278 279 280 281 283 284 286 287 288 289 306 315 320 321 322 (71) 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 331 333 334 338 350 351 352 353 354 (71) 355 356 357 358 359 370 371 372 373 374 375 376 377 378 379 380 (71) 381 382 383 384 385 386 387 388 389 400 401 402 403 404 405 406 (71) 407 408 409 410 411 412 413 414 415 416 417 418 425 430 431 432 (71) 433 434 435 436 437 438 439 454 457 465 473 474 476 477 480 481 (71) 482 483 484 485 486 487 488 489 490 491 492 493 494 495 496 497 (71) 498 499 510 511 512 513 515 516 522 525 537 538 548 580 581 582 (71) 583 584 585 586 587 588 589 600 601 602 603 604 605 606 607 608 (71) 609 610 611 612 613 615 618 619 620 621 622 623 624 625 626 627 (71) 628 629 630 631 632 633 634 635 636 637 638 639 696 700 701 702 (71) 703 704 706 707 708 709 710 711 712 713 714 715 716 718 719 720 (71) 721 722 723 724 725 726 727 728 729 730 731 732 733 734 735 736 (71) 737 738 739 753 757 772 774 775 779 790 791 792 793 794 795 796 (71) 798 799 818 819 820 821 822 823 824 826 827 828 829 831 832 833 (71) 834 835 836 837 838 839 867 872 873 901 911 912 915 916 917 918 (71) 920 921 922 923 924 925 927 928 929 930 931 932 933 934 935 936 (71) 937 938 939 955 956 957 962 971 972 973 976 978 987 And the following London prefixes change on May 6, 1990, from dialing code 01 (international +44 1) to 081 (international +44 81): (81) 200 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 290 291 293 295 297 298 299 (81) 300 301 302 303 304 305 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 316 317 (81) 318 319 330 332 335 336 337 339 340 341 342 343 345 346 347 348 (81) 349 360 361 363 364 365 366 367 368 390 391 392 393 394 395 397 (81) 398 399 419 420 421 422 423 424 426 427 428 429 440 441 442 443 (81) 444 445 446 447 448 449 450 451 452 453 455 456 458 459 460 461 (81) 462 463 464 466 467 468 469 470 471 472 475 478 479 500 501 502 (81) 503 504 505 506 507 508 509 514 517 518 519 520 521 523 524 526 (81) 527 529 530 531 532 533 534 535 536 539 540 541 542 543 544 545 (81) 546 547 549 550 551 552 553 554 555 556 557 558 559 560 561 562 (81) 563 564 565 566 567 568 569 570 571 572 573 574 575 576 577 578 (81) 579 590 591 592 593 594 595 597 598 599 640 641 642 643 644 645 (81) 646 647 648 650 651 653 654 655 656 657 658 659 660 661 663 664 (81) 665 666 667 668 669 670 671 672 673 674 675 676 677 678 679 680 (81) 681 682 683 684 685 686 687 688 689 690 691 692 693 694 695 697 (81) 698 699 740 741 742 743 744 745 746 747 748 749 750 751 752 754 (81) 755 756 758 759 760 761 763 764 766 767 768 769 770 771 773 776 (81) 777 778 780 781 782 783 784 785 786 787 788 789 800 801 802 803 (81) 804 805 806 807 808 809 811 840 841 842 843 844 845 846 847 848 (81) 849 850 851 852 853 854 855 856 857 858 859 860 861 862 863 864 (81) 865 866 868 869 870 871 874 875 876 877 878 879 881 882 883 884 (81) 885 886 888 889 890 891 892 893 894 897 898 899 900 902 903 904 (81) 905 906 907 908 909 913 914 940 941 942 943 944 946 947 948 949 (81) 950 951 952 953 954 958 959 960 961 963 964 965 967 968 969 974 (81) 977 979 980 981 983 984 985 986 988 989 991 992 993 994 995 997 (81) 998 Mark Brader, Toronto "The singular of 'data' is not 'anecdote.'" utzoo!sq!msb, msb@sq.com -- Jeff Goldberg ------------------------------ From: rfarris@serene.UUCP (Rick Farris) Subject: CLI in CA Date: 20 Feb 90 21:51:30 GMT Reply-To: rfarris@serene.uu.net (Rick Farris) Organization: Serenity BBS, Del Mar, California There is a rumor floating around out here in California that CNN aired a special on Caller ID this weekend, claiming that CLI was going to be in California this year, and probably the first half of this year. The last I heard on the subject here on c.d.t, Pac*Bell was waiting for constitutionality issues to be resolved elsewhere before bringing CLI into California. Does anyone have the straight skinny on CLI in CA? Rick Farris RF Engineering POB M Del Mar, CA 92014 voice (619) 259-6793 rfarris@serene.uu.net ...!uunet!serene!rfarris serene.UUCP 259-7757 ------------------------------ From: rfarris@serene.UUCP (Rick Farris) Subject: Does 976 Know Who You Are? Date: 21 Feb 90 03:08:42 GMT Reply-To: rfarris@serene.uu.net (Rick Farris) Organization: Serenity BBS, Del Mar, California I was defending CLI by pointing out that the big commercial services (800 number providers, Amex, etc) already receive information on who calls them, and that CLI would simply give us "little guys" the same privileges as the big guys. The question came up as to whether the Dial-a-Porn 976 providers receive info on their callers. Does anyone know? Is it possible for a Dial-a-Porn provider to call up someone and say, "Ahh, we see you made 6 calls to our kinky sex line last month; if you don't make at least 6 calls this month we're going to tell your wife"? Rick Farris RF Engineering POB M Del Mar, CA 92014 voice (619) 259-6793 rfarris@serene.uu.net ...!uunet!serene!rfarris serene.UUCP 259-7757 ------------------------------ Subject: Cellular Stuff Date: Wed, 21 Feb 90 08:59:30 EST From: woody Does the cellular telephone system have a provision for Caller ID transmissions? Might it even be built into the cellular phones already, just waiting to go, or will there have to be a new generation of cell phones to handle Caller ID (if it can be handled at all)... Also, a note of news, Bell Cellular in Ontario and Quebec claims to have the longest continuous cell coverage in the world, with 1800 km from Windsor to the New Brunswick/Quebec border. Newsgroup readers are invited to see if there are examples which beat this 1800 km figure. || "Canadian radio ain't it grand/You can listen to music from another land" || David Leibold (djcl@contact.uucp) ///// ^^- Stompin' Tom Connors ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 90 09:57 EST From: "Curtis E. Reid" Subject: Re: Centrex and 9xxx Numbers >TELECOM Digest Tue, 20 Feb 90 00:49:08 CST Volume 10 : Issue 116 >The Rochester Institute of Technology uses just part of (716) 475; I >*think* from 475-2000 to 475-6999 (?). The rest of the exchange is >used in the northern part of the town of Henrietta [the part served by >the "Rochester" exchange {272, 424, 427 #s} and not the "Henrietta" >exchange {334, 359}]. RIT uses from 475-2000 to 475-7999 now since RIT switched over from Centrex to AT&T System 85 a couple years back. RIT still uses scores of 475-1xxx lines for private direct connections while the rest goes to business customers. Henrietta is an extremely large suburban town. It has three post offices that serves it: Main Rochester P.O., Henrietta and West Henrietta. Therefore, Henrietta has two C.O.s. The exchanges you mentioned above serves on one C.O. and the other exchanges you mentioned serves the other C.O. For tax purpose, we are Henrietta but that's where the line draws. Some addresses have Rochester as the city, other areas have Henrietta and my area has West Henrietta. Curtis Reid CER2520@RITVAX.Bitnet CER2520%RITVAX.Bitnet@cunyvm.cuny.edu (Internet) CER2520@vaxd.isc.rit.edu (Not Reliable-NYSernet) ------------------------------ From: Rajeev B Patil Subject: Foreign Companies in the US Date: 21 Feb 90 20:16:30 GMT Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories Having followed the AT&T vs. Japanese companies debate, I found the following article very interesting. The New York Times Feb 18, 1990 Page 1 "IRS Investigating Foreign Companies For Tax Cheating" Excerpts from the article: "...Federal tax officials are investigating many American subsidiaries of Japanese companies on the suspicion that they have underpaid corporate income taxes by billions of dollars." " As foreign-owned assets in the United States more than tripled in a decade to $1.8 trillion, the gross income ... more than doubled. But the total taxes they paid hardly changed ..." " Tax officials assert that some subsidiaries understate income, thus minimizing tax liability, by manipulating transactions with parent company." No wonder the Japanese products are cheaper !!!! Rajeev ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 90 19:42 EST From: Nutsy Fagen Subject: MCI and Imaginary Calling Card Numbers Several months ago, I ordered an MCI calling card in relation to a frequent-flyer promotion. Since I am a college student, I wanted a calling card ONLY, preferably with no link to my parent's real phone. (Like my imaginary 677-xxx-xxxx ATT calling card). This simple request, however, blew away at least three MCI operators, as well as got me bounced around several times before I gave in and relinquished my parent's number 'for reference purposes only'. When the card came, sure enough, it was my home phone number with a PIN thrown on. It also had my name spelled wrong :) A quick call to MCI corrected the name problem, although I neglected to mention that I wanted an imaginary card. However, when my new cards came, one was based on the real number, and the other was completely new, based (I assume) on an imaginary 335-458-xxxx number. An interesting note is that my home phone number is 315-458-yyyy. Further, I called MCI back and requested they cancel the 'real number' based card (based on recent horror stories of them automatically switching unsuspecting victims over). I will be sure to have my father check his next few bills, just to be safe. Mike ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 90 18:27:33 -0500 From: Henry Mensch Subject: "Introducing the $6 Answering Machine From New England Telephone" Reply-To: henry@garp.mit.edu I received brochures in today's mail which announce New England telephone's residence call answering service (presumably some voice-mail look-alike) for $6/month, with a $12.37 installation fee which can be paid over up to four months. New England Telephone customers who want to know more can phone this toll-free number for more information: 800 922 8383 x639 # Henry Mensch / / E40-379 MIT, Cambridge, MA # / / ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 90 23:24:32 -0600 From: Wayne Hamilton Subject: Another Irresistable Deal From Sprint? I recently checked into the "personal WATS" deals available from AT&T, MCI, and Sprint. Sprint's program has no monthly charge, and they are waiving the installation fee til the end of March. It sounds like I can have my own 800 number with no cost until I actually "use" it. Besides Sprint's bad accounting reputation, is there something else to worry about here? wayne hamilton U of Il and US Army Corps of Engineers CERL UUCP: {att,iuvax,uunet}!uiucuxc!osiris!hamilton I'net: hamilton@osiris.cso.uiuc.edu Lowtek: Box 476, Urbana, IL 61801; (217)384-4310(voice), -4311(BBS) ------------------------------ From: Bill Darden Subject: Information Needed On ROLMPhones Date: 22 Feb 90 15:16:06 GMT Reply-To: Bill Darden Organization: Northrop Research & Technology Center, Palos Verdes, CA I have a number of ROLMPhones (RP120, RP240 & PR400's) that are broken and I would greatly appreciate service info (schematics, etc.) or the phone number of a person who fixs them. Thanks, BiLL..... (213) 544-5293 ------------------------------ End of TELECOM Digest V10 #122 ******************************  ISSUES 116 THROUGH 123 ARRIVED OUT OF ORDER. 123 APPEARS EARLIER IN THIS FILE ALONG WITH 119-120-121.   Received: from delta.eecs.nwu.edu by mintaka.lcs.mit.edu id aa16596; 23 Feb 90 23:12 EST Received: from mailinglists.eecs.nwu.edu by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id aa06075; 23 Feb 90 21:16 CST Received: from mailinglists.eecs.nwu.edu by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id aa15145; 23 Feb 90 20:11 CST Date: Fri, 23 Feb 90 19:40:53 CST From: TELECOM Moderator [To]: telecom@eecs.nwu.edu Subject: TELECOM Digest V10 #124 BCC: Message-ID: <9002231940.ab13234@delta.eecs.nwu.edu> TELECOM Digest Fri, 23 Feb 90 19:40:36 CST Volume 10 : Issue 124 Today's Topics: Moderator: Patrick Townson Two Special Issues This Weekend (TELECOM Moderator) ISDN-Modem Interworking Question (Joe Hingston) Re: Questions About SONET (Fred R. Goldstein) Ameritech PSN->Telenet (Randy Miller) Question About Feature Groups (Tad Cook) Re: Envoy 100 (Rob Warnock) Book on Telephone Switching (Ole J. Jacobsen) Quiet Lines (Richard Pavelle) Sprint 800 service (Steve Elias) VMX Voice Mail Lawsuits (Steve Elias) Sprint Plus (Steve Elias) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 23 Feb 90 19:09:36 CST From: TELECOM Moderator Subject: Two Special Issues This Weekend Two special issues of TELECOM Digest are planned for this weekend. WITHER JOLNET? will be a detailed report by David Tamkin of the troubles facing the system administrator of this suburban Chicago public access system; and ramifications for another Chicago area site as a result. Miscellaneous comments by other readers will be included. CPID/ANI DEVELOPMENTS will present a memo written by Vic Toth, an attorney specializing in regulatory affairs for the STC. Distribution on both will be sometime Saturday afternoon most likely. Patrick Townson ------------------------------ From: Joe Hingston Subject: ISDN-Modem Interworking Question Date: Fri, 23 Feb 1990 14:36:18 PST Organization: Apple Computer, Inc What is going to be the common (and/or correct) way to interwork ISDN terminals with services that are modem based? I am thinking of personal computers with ISDN as a built in feature, or with an ISDN add-in card. I can think of a couple of obvious ways, but do not know which will be used, or indeed if some totally different means will be used. 1) The ISDN terminal will have a standard modem sitting behind a codec. As far as the network and the service provider are concerned ISDN does not need to exist. 2) The ISDN terminal will use some form of rate adaptation, similar to V.110. But then who converts the rate adapted bit stream to modem tones? The phone company? A third party? 3) Almost the same as 2), but instead of bit rate adaptation data is sent as HDLC frames. This raises the same questions as to who converts the frames to tones. Are the RBOCs allowed to do the rate adaption, or does it fall into the category of protocol conversion? Will there be pools of Rate Adaptors, similar to the modem pools that currently exist? I hope these questions make sense, if not please feel free to suggest new questions. A screaming comes across the sky" T. Pynchon These statements in no way reflect Apple opinions. Joe Hingston (hingston@apple.com) ------------------------------ From: "Fred R. Goldstein" Subject: Re: Questions About SONET Date: 23 Feb 90 17:17:20 GMT Organization: Digital Equipment Corp., Littleton MA USA In article <4265@accuvax.nwu.edu>, HGSCHULZ@cs.umass.edu (Henning Schulzrinne) writes... >1. Are there any readily accessible papers (i.e., not just some >standard) containing details on SONET, beyond the paper in the March >1989 issue of the IEEE Communications Magazine? I am especially >interested in motivations of certain design decisions, not just >"that's how it is and there is nothing you can do about it". >2. Why was the row size set to 90 bytes? As it is, ATM packets will >have to be broken across rows. You have to remember that SONET and ATM are only distantly related. SONET predates ATM; it did not anticipate ATM. ATM does not require SONET; the B-ISDN crowd simply took pieces that the ATM fanatics wanted and pieces that the SONET fanatics wanted and glommed them together. They don't fit together particularly well. >3. How do ATM and SONET interact? What gets switched where? SONET is simply the physical medium that carries ATM (or other things). It's synchronous. The row size is based on a compromise between the US and Europe. Originally the US ran 50.02 Mbps (I think) STS-1 with 13 rows, but that's meaningless to the Europeans (whose hierarchy is different) so the compromise was to "meet" at STS-3 (STM-1 to CCITT), with 270 columns and 9 rows. The compromise fit together that way. ATM cell size is controversial. The Aussies pushing DQDB (802.6) had 69-octet cell silicon and the Americans agreed with that size (64 octet payload, 5 octet header). The French did the Prelude experiment in '82 using 18 octet (16+2) cells, and figured that they could go as high as 32 octet payloads without needing echo cancellers for voice. (Echo cancellers are needed if your packetization and propagation delays are excessive. In a country the size of the US, 32 octets of packetization delay, or 4 milliseconds, would have been excessive. So we Gringos are pretty much resigned to using echo cancellers over ATM.) CCITT struck a compromise last summer that nobody really liked: Split the difference and have a 48-octet payload (48+5 cell). Dividing 53 octets into the 260-column STM-1 (after 10 columns of overhead are subtracted) does not leave an integer, but you can hardly blame SONET for that! >4. What is the advantage of interleaving ``header'' information >throughout the frame, rather than concentrating it at the beginning of >a frame? Why are the payload pointers put a number of rows after the >beginning of the frame, so that I have to wait until I can determine >where the payload begins? In practice, I think you'll have to buffer a frame anyway; putting the overhead throughout the frame (actually, in the first columns) allows the rest of the columns to be used as virtual tributaries, undisturbed. It makes sense to me. >5. Why was the path overhead made part of the payload rather than the >header? SONET is layered. It requires a section layer overhead. The path is layered above section, as a path may run over many concatenated sections. fred (ANSI T1S1 rep) Fred R. Goldstein goldstein@carafe.enet.dec.com or goldstein@delni.enet.dec.com voice: +1 508 486 7388 opinions are mine alone. sharing requires permission. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Feb 90 10:34:13 CST From: Randy Miller Subject: Ameritech PSN->Telenet I am currently considering putting up a BBS system in Rural Walworth county Wisconsin. However, the nearest PC-Pursuit node is in Janesville (which is a long distance call, since it is in a different LATA). I have, for several months, been trying to talk to Ameritech Packet Switching in Milwaukee to find out if there is a local node in Delevan, so I could gateway through to Telenet. (Telenet says they have cleared their security problem with PC-Pursuit, and the gateway is now possible). However, I am getting nothing but the royal shaft from Ameritech. I have made several calls, have talked to a consultant at the American Library Association convention in Chicago this past January, but I NEVER get as much as a call back! Does anyone have any information (or what buzzwords I need to use with their supposed customer service department) on how I can accomplish this gateway. Thank you. Randy Miller rs.miller@pro-harvest fsc@pro-harvest GEnie:rs.miller America Online:rsmiller ------------------------------ From: tad@ssc.UUCP (Tad Cook) Subject: Question About Feature Groups Date: 23 Feb 90 06:58:38 GMT Organization: very little Several years ago I remember hearing some discussion about the different classes of connections that a long distance carrier could get at the called party office. Some of them gave answer supervision, and because some didn't, the carriers had to use funny voice detection and timing schemes. What were these connections called? Tad Cook tad@ssc.UUCP ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Feb 90 04:42:52 PST From: Rob Warnock Subject: Re: Envoy 100 Reply-To: "Robert P. Warnock" Organization: Silicon Graphics Inc., Mountain View, CA In article <3846@accuvax.nwu.edu> Colin Plumb writes: +--------------- | Some people I know are doing some work for Bell Canada and Bell is | hooking them up to a system called "Envoy 100". (It's a billable | expense and Bell wants it very much, so whether it's useful isn't an | issue.) When I first heard of it, I thought it was just a voice mail | system, but apparenly you can use it to send mail or couriered | messages and do all sorts of neat tricks. The user needs a modem. | | The odds are good I'm going to be taching them something about how to | use it. Has anyone on TELECOM had any experience with this thing? | What exactly is it/are there any gotchas? +--------------- It's just a commercial e-mail service. Happens to be run (indirectly) by the Canadian government. Fees are charged for connect time, kilocharacters sent/read, disk storage, and monthly service fee. It's not cheap. It has a rather primitive command/help system, and a very primitive editor for composing messages. (Nothing at all approximating "termcap", nor indeed any screen-oriented functions. Strictly glass TTY.) It is partitioned up into disjoint user groups (although there is a syntax for talking to people in other groups); that's because it's largely marketed as private (closed) e-mail for companies/groups that don't already have computer-based e-mail. It provides a tree-structure of bulletin-boards within a given user community for posting USENET-style (you send mail to a BBS "user name"), plus normal user-to-user unicast mail. You get notification of new mail on login for yourself and for any BBS's in your user group. It can be accessed in Canada by direct dial (various numbers), or in Canada via Datapac, or in the US via Telenet (0302039400100). Has automatic password aging, which makes for fun if you're trying to run a "gateway" (well, a program to poll a couple of accounts for their mail). Has a tiny bit of support for "batched" input, presumably for those who compose their messages offline on a PC. However, it *does* seem to be plugged into most of the X.400-like gateways, and with the right magic you can (they say -- I've never gotten it to work) send a message to, say, AT&T Mail, or some of the other commercial nets. And the administration of a user community can be pretty much delegated to your group's designated net administrator, who can add/modify/delete individual accounts within the group, add/delete/rearrange the bulletin-board structure, and who gets all the bills. The biggest "gotchas" to watch out for are the overall costs (they can mount up fast if a sudden flurry of traffic occurs some month), the delayed billing cycle (you don't see what you've spent for several months), and the fact that messages are *not* automatically deleted after you read them unless you say "PURGE UNFILED", which leaves a gathering pile of *very* expensive disk bits. You can also rack up connect time if you read stuff on-line, with the built-in "---more---" prompts. Fortunately, you can say "READ!" which will dump all your new messages out with no paginator (hopefully to be captured in your terminal emulator's log file), and log off quickly (*after* remembering to "PURGE UNFILED"). Composing on-line can be expensive iff you are a bad typist and need to spend a lot of time in their editor. But all in all, not terrible, and certainly usable by people with nothing but a dumb terminal. (But then, so are ATTmail and MCImail.) I use it *only* because a group of which I'm a member happened to pick it as an "interim solution" to staying in touch -- "interim" for several years now. (Yes, we should switch to UUCP-based news, but a goodly number of the members are still terminal-only users scattered in fairly isolated locations. Telenet's "local" access ports are a winner for this population.) Rob Warnock, MS-9U/510 rpw3@sgi.com rpw3@pei.com Silicon Graphics, Inc. (415)335-1673 Protocol Engines, Inc. 2011 N. Shoreline Blvd. Mountain View, CA 94039-7311 ------------------------------ Date: Fri 23 Feb 90 09:56:02-PST From: "Ole J. Jacobsen" Subject: Book on Telephone Switching The book "Introduction to Telephone Switching" by Bruce E. Briley of Bell Labs, published by Addison-Wesley, ISBN 0-201-11246-9 has (amongst other things) a very comprehensive overview of the various generations of switches from Step-by-Step and Panel via Crossbar and the whole family of ESSs (1-5). (It also contains an amusing "typo"; the photograph of a Crossbar Switch Bay on page 45 is flipped 90 degrees so the racks appear *horizontal*. Now here in Earthquake land this may not be so uncommon, but...) Ole ------------------------------ From: Richard Pavelle Subject: Quiet Lines Date: 23 Feb 90 12:36:27 GMT Organization: MIT Lincoln Laboratory, Lexington, MA New England Telephone had a quiet line number (exchange-9917). This has been changed since the last time I needed it. Does anyone know what it now is? Thanks. Richard Pavelle UUCP: ...ll-xn!rp ARPANET: rp@XN.LL.MIT.EDU ------------------------------ Reply-To: eli@pws.bull.com Subject: Sprint 800 Service Date: Fri, 23 Feb 90 15:37:05 -0500 From: Steve Elias A previous article mentioned that Sprint's residence 800 service has no monthly charge. This is not correct. There is a $10 per month charge, plus 14 cents (or so) per minute for calls, billed in 6 second increments. The prices for residence and business Fonline 800 service are the same. It is possible to get Sprint to waive the installation charge, though... ; Steve Elias ; work phone: 508 671 7556 ; email: eli@pws.bull.com , eli@spdcc.com ; voice mail: 617 932 5598 ------------------------------ Subject: VMX Voice Mail Lawsuits Date: Fri, 23 Feb 90 10:17:52 -0500 From: Steve Elias Speaking of VMX... Readers might be interested to know that VMX holds a (dubious) patent on voice mail systems. They sue just about everyone who makes voice mail and demands payment. Most companies don't have the legal weight to fight them in court... VMX is an enormous company. Strangely enough, VMX chose not to sue IBM/Rolm over voice mail years ago... (Not that I'm aware of, at least.) ; Steve Elias ; work phone: 508 671 7556 ; email: eli@pws.bull.com , eli@spdcc.com ; voice mail: 617 932 5598 ------------------------------ Subject: Sprint Plus Date: Fri, 23 Feb 90 10:11:58 -0500 From: Steve Elias Is everyone talking about the same thing with regard to Sprint Plus? I'm not aware of any rebates or credits which are available under the program. Sprint Plus gives the subscriber a minimum bill of $8.00 per month, but it gives them nighttime rates starting at 5PM, skipping evening rates completely. It's a good deal for long distance fiends who don't like to call people after 11PM on weeknights... I just signed up for it this week. I'll keep everyone informed as to the inevitable billing fiascos this causes. At best, it will cause me to get two bills in one month... ; Steve Elias ; work phone: 508 671 7556 ; email: eli@pws.bull.com , eli@spdcc.com ; voice mail: 617 932 5598 ------------------------------ End of TELECOM Digest V10 #124 ******************************   Received: from delta.eecs.nwu.edu by mintaka.lcs.mit.edu id aa20425; 24 Feb 90 0:09 EST Received: from mailinglists.eecs.nwu.edu by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id aa11011; 23 Feb 90 22:21 CST Received: from mailinglists.eecs.nwu.edu by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id ab06075; 23 Feb 90 21:16 CST Date: Fri, 23 Feb 90 20:15:33 CST From: TELECOM Moderator [To]: telecom@eecs.nwu.edu Subject: TELECOM Digest V10 #125 BCC: Message-ID: <9002232015.ab30304@delta.eecs.nwu.edu> TELECOM Digest Fri, 23 Feb 90 20:15:13 CST Volume 10 : Issue 125 Today's Topics: Moderator: Patrick Townson Re: Prevalence of 10XXX Dialing (David Tamkin) Re: Prevalence of 10xxx Dialing (Kent Borg) GTE & MFJ (was Re: Prevalence of 10xxx Dialing) (David Lewis) Re: ABC TV Feed Via Phone Number in NYC (Anthony Stone) Re: Foreign Companies in the US (John Higdon) Why Is Everyone Dumping on AT&T? (Daniel A. Margolis) 911 Abuses (David Leibold) Cellular and Caller*ID (Joseph C. Pistritto) Re: CLI in CA (John Higdon) Re: Does 976 Know Who You Are? (John Higdon) *TONE-BLOCK* (Daniel A. Margolis) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David Tamkin Subject: Re: Prevalence of 10XXX Dialing Date: Thu, 22 Feb 90 10:59:35 CST Reply-To: point!dattier@ddsw1.uucp John Cowan wrote in TELECOM Digest, Volume 10, Issue 116: | As I understand it, only Bell (ex-AT&T) telcos plus GTE must offer | [10XXX], and lots of local independent telcos don't. Taconic | Telephone, for example, the first all-digital local telco in the | country, has no plans to offer any LD carrier except AT&T. Centel offers 10XXX, but the selection of carriers who will accept my 10XXX dialing is different from the selection offered to Illinois Bell customers across the street. (For one thing, I can use 10721 for Centel Net and they can't; for another, there was a long stretch when MCI would offer them Around Town calling but told me I wasn't eligible, even though they advertised that it was available throughout the city of Chicago: they reserved the right to define Chicago their own way regardless of what the City Council said.) | (I suppose that GTE comes under the terms of the MFJ because it owns | Sprint. True or false?) But GTE no longer owns Sprint. On July 1, 1986, GTE and United Telecommunications merged their packet nets (GTE Telenet and Uninet) into Telenet (soon to be renamed SprintNet) and their long-distance carriers (Sprint and U S Tel) into U S Sprint. About two years later GTE pulled out of the partnership, leaving Telenet and U S Sprint entirely in United Tel's hands. And now that Central Telephone's corporate parent owns a long-distance carrier, they continue renting and selling telephone equipment to residential customers, so that hasn't put them under MFJ rules. David W. Tamkin dattier@point.UUCP ...{ddsw1,obdient!vpnet}!point!dattier BIX: dattier GEnie: D.W.TAMKIN CIS: 73720,1570 (708) 518-6769 (312) 693-0591 P. O. Box 813 Rosemont, Illinois 60018-0813 All other point users disagree. ------------------------------ From: Kent Borg Subject: Re: Prevalence of 10xxx Dialing Date: 23 Feb 90 21:29:48 GMT Reply-To: Kent Borg Organization: Camex, Inc., Boston, Mass USA In article <4008@accuvax.nwu.edu> Randal Schwartz writes: >'course, this works only in those areas that have 10XXX (Feature Group D?) >dialing. >Is that everywhere *except* the backwaters of GTE Northwest, now? Or >are there still many places that don't have 10XXX dialing? >We can do 950-xxxx and "select our default 1+ carrier", but 10XXX is >only for the local Bell-co (US West, or whatever they changed their >name to this week) customers. I know that when I was visiting my parents over Christmas I tried 10222 and didn't get far. I asked the operator whether the line had equal access and was told no. I did get through with 950-1022. This was 20 miles west of Minneapolis in Mound (where Tonka Toys used to live), I think served by Continental. Was always a step-by-step when I was growing up, but that changed a few years ago, it sounds electronic now. Kent Borg lloyd!kent@husc6.harvard.edu or ...!husc6!lloyd!kent MacNet: kentborg H:(617) 776-6899 W:(617)426-3577 "So simple minded. Kindergarten level with no content, but it's beautifully landscaped, and the architecture is interesting." -my mother on Epcot Center ------------------------------ From: David Lewis Subject: GTE & MFJ (was Re: Prevalence of 10xxx Dialing) Date: 22 Feb 90 20:58:54 GMT Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ In article <4141@accuvax.nwu.edu>, cowan@marob.masa.com (John Cowan) writes: > (I suppose that GTE comes under the terms of the MFJ because it owns > Sprint. True or false?) False. Only AT&T and the AT&T-divested Regional Operating Companies (the famous seven) are subject to terms of the MFJ. GTE has, however, submitted itself/been submitted to similar constraints. I believe this was due to another DOJ antitrust suit, but I could be mistaken. David G Lewis ...!bellcore!nvuxr!deej (@ Bellcore Navesink Research & Engineering Center) "If this is paradise, I wish I had a lawnmower." ------------------------------ From: Anthony Stone Subject: Re: ABC TV Feed Via Phone Number in NYC Date: 22 Feb 90 20:41:39 GMT Reply-To: stone@nbc1.UUCP (Anthony Stone) Organization: NBC Computer Imaging, New York Steve Huff mentions a phone number in New York which answers with ABC TV program audio. This is most certainly one of their many IFB (Interruptible FoldBack) lines which are used so that talent and interview guests can hear questions being posed to them during remote [live] broadcasts. Producers can also interrupt the audio with cues like "the tape isn't ready, go on to the next story." If the interview is via satellite, then "mix-minus" audio is sent. This is an output of the audio board which includes all audio sources except the satellite feed. Otherwise the person being interviewed would hear his voice in his earphone a half second later. Very disconcerting, believe me! (You can simulate this with a 3-head audio tape recorder. Listen to the playback head while recording into a microphone.) No, I won't give out our IFB numbers! :-) Anthony Stone NBC News Graphics, New York, NY stone@nbc1.ge.com 212-664-2206 ------------------------------ Reply-To: John Higdon Subject: Re: Foreign Companies in the US Date: 23 Feb 90 10:26:12 PST (Fri) From: John Higdon Rajeev B Patil writes: > " Tax officials assert that some subsidiaries understate income, thus ^^^^^^ > minimizing tax liability, by manipulating transactions with parent > company." > No wonder the Japanese products are cheaper !!!! Until all this is proven somewhere, I wouldn't "ah-HA" too much. Remember, the popular Japan-bashing is as much rampant in the government as it is in companies like AT&T. Just as AT&T defenders have gone off foaming at the mouth without doing any actual investigating of reality, so too have our trusty government officials. Besides, even if true, it doesn't explain why Japanese products are *better*. I think that has been explained adequately in other posts. John Higdon | P. O. Box 7648 | +1 408 723 1395 john@bovine.ati.com | San Jose, CA 95150 | M o o ! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Feb 90 19:35:27 EST From: Daniel A Margolis Subject: Why Is Everyone Dumping On AT&T? I guess it's time to come out of the woodwork. There have been enough flames about the dumping claim that I almost dislike reading this newsgroup. I am an AT&T employee and I do work for General Business Systems. I am an engineer, not a PR-person or a lawyer, and everything I know about the dumping claim is public knowledge, and does not necessarily represent the opinion of AT&T. There - how's that for a disclaimer? I want to set a few things straight. First of all, as far as I know, there are only two American manufacturers of the specified systems: AT&T and Comdial. The claim was filed jointly by both companies. Furthermore, the claim was thoroughly investigated by two commissions (ITC and someone else). If they found in favor of the American companies, then there was sufficient evidence. I doubt that General Business Systems has any undo influence in such matters. They just presented facts and knowledgeable witnesses. It does not matter whether the company accused of dumping has designed a product specifically for the US. What does matter is that they have been found to be subsidizing their US products with their Japanese profits. This can be seen as taking advantage of the fact that the US market is much more open than the Japanese market. Right now, Japanese consumers are paying for our "below cost" prices, and each Japanese company has a small amount of market share, but with a little collusion, the Japanese companies can control the market. Then, we will find that American consumers will pay the full burden and more. Of course, if the Japanese companies manufacture in the US, they can do the same thing and get away with it (perhaps a weakness in the law). For the person who made the point that SW Bell's system is cheaper than the MERLIN system, you are assuming that SW Bell's system is US made. None of the RBOCs is permitted to manufacture. They take someone else's product and put their logo on it. It could quite possibly be one of the dumped systems. For those people who compare Merlin to Panasonic's 16-station key system, you are comparing the wrong things. AT&T's basic key system is the SPIRIT system. The MERLIN PLUS system is larger and it is a feature-rich luxury model with voice prompting and such. The MERLIN II system is a 54-trunk by 120 station system, much larger than the Panasonic to which you are comparing it. All three are manufactured in the USA. If you were/are looking for a small/cheap/basic key system, you should be looking at the SPIRIT system, not either of the MERLIN systems. On another note I dislike the fact that the average consumer cannot tell the difference between products sold by Bell and products Manufactured by AT&T. At a reunion I mentioned that I worked for AT&T and I was told that my old fraternity house just recently bought a phone system from us and hated it. Actually, they had bought a system from NYNEX, manufactured (dumped?) by TIE. Name recognition just isn't what it used to be. Dan Margolis [Moderator's Note: Thank you for an excellent rebuttal and contribution to the Digest. PT] ------------------------------ Subject: 911 Abuses Date: Thu, 22 Feb 90 17:52:57 EST From: woody George Gamester's column in the _Toronto_Star_ on Tuesday 20th February discussed some of the things 911 operators have to put up with. There was a mention of someone who wanted his flight to be extra-safe, so he called in a bomb report on his flight. Needless to say, he was not too knowledgeable about ANI, so he got two years in jail (more than what many rapists and muggers get). It is reported that only 10% of Toronto's 911 calls are actual emergencies. The rest sometimes go like this: "Ten-four. I'm calling from my mobile phone. A litterer in the car in front of me just threw a candy wrapper out the window. I will remain in pursuit of the perpetrator and attempt citizen's arrest." Of course, many false alarms are due to pre-programming of the 911 number in some phones (the wrong button gets pressed). || David Leibold (djcl@contact.uucp) || "The trouble with normal is it always gets worse" - Bruce Cockburn ------------------------------ Date: 23 Feb 90 14:04:18+0100 From: "Joseph C. Pistritto" Subject: Cellular and Caller*ID There's no reason (none at all), why cellular phones shouldn't generate Caller*ID (eg. the person being called FROM a cellular phone would get correct Caller*ID displayed on his box), as the 'switch' part of a cellular system is pretty much a standard model. All the interesting stuff happens between that switch and the user. Each cellular customer has the virtual equivalent of a local loop, (in the early systems, I think there was actually a physical local loop), which has an assigned phone number. So the switch generates Caller*ID information when placing the outbound call into the network. Further, I'm sure the cellular switch RECEIVES the Caller*ID info just fine as well. The problem is getting it onto the display in the cellular mobile. I don't think there's any provision in the cellular standard for text information to be passed to the remote during call setup. (I could be wrong here, it's been a couple years since I saw the relevant documents). In any event, as far as I know, older phones couldn't support any change to implement this. -jcp- ====================================================================== Joseph C. Pistritto HB9NBB N3CKF 'Think of it as Evolution in Action' (J.Pournelle) Ciba Geigy AG, R1241.1.01, Postfach CH4002 Basel, Switzerland Internet: bpistr@cgch.uucp Phone: (+41) 61 697 6155 Bitnet: bpistr%cgch.uucp@cernvax.bitnet Fax: (+41) 61 697 2435 From US: cgch!bpistr@mcsun.eu.net ------------------------------ Reply-To: John Higdon Subject: Re: CLI in CA Date: 23 Feb 90 10:08:50 PST (Fri) From: John Higdon rfarris@serene.UUCP (Rick Farris) writes: > There is a rumor floating around out here in California that CNN aired > a special on Caller ID this weekend, claiming that CLI was going to be > in California this year, and probably the first half of this year. My inside sources tell me that CLASS features will not appear in Pac*Bell territory until at least last quarter 1990 or maybe first quarter 1991. In any event, you can be assured that the features will appear in southern California long before they are offered elsewhere in the state. I don't expect to see any of it here for a few more years. > The last I heard on the subject here on c.d.t, Pac*Bell was waiting > for constitutionality issues to be resolved elsewhere before bringing > CLI into California. They are trying to get the issues resolved with the CPUC and the courts and civil liberties organizations before they actually make the offerings. John Higdon | P. O. Box 7648 | +1 408 723 1395 john@bovine.ati.com | San Jose, CA 95150 | M o o ! ------------------------------ Reply-To: John Higdon Subject: Re: Does 976 Know Who You Are? Date: 23 Feb 90 10:13:11 PST (Fri) From: John Higdon rfarris@serene.UUCP (Rick Farris) writes: > The question came up as to whether the Dial-a-Porn 976 providers > receive info on their callers. Does anyone know? I don't know about other states, but 976 service is provided on ordinary ground or loop start incoming-only trunks. There is no Caller-ID available in California. John Higdon | P. O. Box 7648 | +1 408 723 1395 john@bovine.ati.com | San Jose, CA 95150 | M o o ! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Feb 90 19:40:41 EST From: Daniel A Margolis Subject: *TONE-BLOCK* The ability to suspend Call Waiting is called *TONE-BLOCK* here in New Jersey Bell land, but here's the catch - you have to subscribe to it. You have to pay 50 cents extra per month to use it. Dan Margolis ------------------------------ End of TELECOM Digest V10 #125 ******************************   Received: from delta.eecs.nwu.edu by mintaka.lcs.mit.edu id aa27410; 24 Feb 90 13:11 EST Received: from mailinglists.eecs.nwu.edu by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id aa32355; 24 Feb 90 11:27 CST Received: from mailinglists.eecs.nwu.edu by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id aa17385; 24 Feb 90 10:22 CST Date: Sat, 24 Feb 90 9:48:45 CST From: TELECOM Moderator [To]: telecom@eecs.nwu.edu Subject: TELECOM Digest V10 #126 BCC: Message-ID: <9002240948.ab05288@delta.eecs.nwu.edu> TELECOM Digest Sat, 24 Feb 90 09:48:24 CST Volume 10 : Issue 126 Today's Topics: Moderator: Patrick Townson Re: MCI and Imaginary Calling Card Numbers (David Tamkin) Re: Computerized Collect Calls (Mike Riddle) Re: Questions About SONET (John Ellson) Re: Text-to-Speech Synthesizers (Lou Judice) Re: Need Advice on Choosing PBX System (David Daniel) Sleazy 1-976 Scheme (Kim Fosbe) Unlisted Charges (John Ranney) Multi Message Answering Machine (Mike Koziol) The Facts about Cellular and Caller ID (John R. Covert) Two Special Issues Later Today (TELECOM Moderator) Re: Murder By Phone (Randal L. Schwartz) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David Tamkin Subject: Re: MCI and Imaginary Calling Card Numbers Date: Fri, 23 Feb 90 14:51:48 CST Nutsy Fagen wrote in TELECOM Digest, Volume 10, Issue 122: | When the card came, sure enough, it was my home phone number with a | PIN thrown on. It also had my name spelled wrong :) When I ordered a card from MCI, they miraculously got my name right (the fruit list helps) but also based the card number on my home number. It was 1989, for Cthulhu's sake, and it hadn't occurred to me that any carrier would still be doing such a stupid thing. I phoned back and ordered what U S Sprint had once called "a scrambled PIN." | However, when my new | cards came, one was based on the real number, and the other was | completely new, based (I assume) on an imaginary 335-458-xxxx number. | An interesting note is that my home phone number is 315-458-yyyy. A *very* interesting note! My home number is in area code 312, and the scrambled number MCI sent me begins 332 plus my home prefix! David Tamkin PO Box 813 Rosemont IL 60018-0813 708-518-6769 312-693-0591 dattier@chinet.chi.il.us BIX: dattier GEnie: D.W.TAMKIN CIS: 73720,1570 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Feb 90 22:35:25 EST From: Mike Riddle Subject: Re: Computerized Collect Calls Reply-to: Mike.Riddle@p6.f666.n285.z1.fidonet.org Organization: DRBBS Technical BBS, Omaha, Ne. 402-896-3537 In a recent message, Wm Randolph Franklin writes: (inquiring as to AT&T's basis for charging the called party when the caller refuses to pay or is unable.) >Anyone know what the legal basis for this is? AT&T undoubtedly is using some theory of unjust enrichment. The called party, in a case where numerous calls of lengthy duration are in question, received some benefit and therefore should pay. While it might not seem fair, in that the called party did not, on the record, ask for the call, AT&T certainly did not ask for it either (except through all the advertising? and then they expected payment!). Between the "innocent" third party provider (AT&T) or the two parties to the call, AT&T should be the last to pay for it. That would be the theory anyway. I expect a lot of us could structure an argument that "getting stiffed is part of the cost of doing business." Then we'd hightail it down to the PUC and lobby against rate increases. Rambling off. {standard disclaimer: not even *I* take my advice, why should you?} Ybbat (DRBBS) 8.9 v. 3.07 r.1 Origin: [1:285/666.6@fidonet] The Inns of Court (285/666.6) Through FidoNet gateway node 1:16/390 Mike.Riddle@f666.n285.z1.fidonet.org ------------------------------ From: ames!mailrus!uunet!stsusa.com!ellson%sdcsvax@ucsd.edu Subject: Re: Questions About SONET Date: 23 Feb 90 23:32:15 GMT Organization: Siemens Transmission Systems, Albuquerque, NM In article <4265@accuvax.nwu.edu>, HGSCHULZ@cs.umass.edu (Henning Schulzrinne) writes: > I have a number of questions regarding SONET, the Bellcore-standard > Synchronous Optical NETwork. > 1. Are there any readily accessible papers (i.e., not just some > standard) containing details on SONET, beyond the paper in the March > 1989 issue of the IEEE Communications Magazine? I am especially > interested in motivations of certain design decisions, not just > "that's how it is and there is nothing you can do about it". As a long-time contributor to the development of the Sonet standard I can probably answer your questions as far as the technical motivations behind the design decisions in Sonet. > 2. Why was the row size set to 90 bytes? As it is, ATM packets will > have to be broken across rows. ATM was not a consideration when the 9 by 90 frame structure of the Sonet STS-1 signal was decided, in fact the ATM cell size was not agreed upon until well after the first release of Sonet. The 9 row structure was chosen to best accomodate both US and CEPT digital hierarchies. 3 columns (27 bytes) carries a 1.544Mb signal and 4 columns (36 bytes) carries a 2.048 Mb signal. The 90 byte row in the STS-1 signal is sized such that the 9 by 90 frame carries the next major signal in the US hierarchy, the DS3 at 44.736Mb. The CCITT STM-1 signal, which is equivalent to 3 times the STS-1, carries the next major signal in the CEPT hierarchy at 139.264Mb (also DS4-NA in the US). Sonet was designed to reasonably accomodate the all existing digital hierarchies so that Sonet equipment could be introduced, globally, in an evolutionary, rather than revolutionary manner. ATM is expected to be the first global payload application of Sonet. The ATM mapping uses the H4 byte to contain an offset indicator to the next ATM header. This allows ATM cell alignment to be obtained within 125us of aquiring Sonet frame. This mechanism would have worked for any ATM cell size. I suspect that the availability of this mechanism was a factor in finally reaching agreement on the cell size; because the ability of Sonet to carry a particular size was not a factor. The bytes of the ATM cells arrive sequentially even though they are broken across rows and frames. An ATM demapper would simply use a gapped clock to clock the cell bytes into an ATM queue buffer. > 3. How do ATM and SONET interact? What gets switched where? Sonet is a circuit switching format, ATM is packet switching. The ATM mapping in Sonet permits ATM nodes to be interconnected using facilities that are shared with the existing digital network. Sonet makes extensive provisions for the maintenance of those facilities thus relieving ATM of the responsibility. > 4. What is the advantage of interleaving ``header'' information > throughout the frame, rather than concentrating it at the beginning of > a frame? Why are the payload pointers put a number of rows after the > beginning of the frame, so that I have to wait until I can determine > where the payload begins? I am not quite sure which "header" information you are refering to. The ATM cell headers are associated with each cell so that each can be routed independently. Remember that adjacent cells may belong to completely different virtual circuits. The Section, Line, Path overhead is distributed to minimize the gaps in the recovered payload clocks that must be smoothed out with buffering, at least for DS1 and DS3 signals. (Some would say that the overhead was not distibuted enough!) > 5. Why was the path overhead made part of the payload rather than the > header? The path overhead is not part of the payload, it belongs to the container that carries the payload end-to-end. Path overhead is responsible for ensuring that the payload is succesfully carried end-to-end across the circuit switched network. Conversely, Line overhead only monitors the signal node-to-node, where a node is a cross-connect or a multiplexer. In the case of ATM, a Sonet "Path" corresponds to a circuit between adjacent ATM nodes. > 6. What is the implementation status of SONET? Sonet equipment is available now from a number of manufacturers. John Ellson // ellson@ontap.stsusa.com // 602-395-5281 Siemens Transmission Systems, 8620 N 22nd Ave, Phoenix AZ 8502 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Feb 90 18:32:41 PST From: "Lou Judice @KYO / DTN 323-4103" Subject: Re: Text-to-Speech Synthesizers Just a small plug for my employer - DEC - here. Digital has a line of single line and multiline text to speech synthesizers with integrated telephone features (dialing, answering). I've used them extensively with applications such as remote alerting of systems personnel, and am very pleased. For a demo, just call 1-800-DECTALK, or your local DEC sales rep. Lou Judice Digital Equipment Corp. 20 Corp Place So. Piscataway, NJ 08855 (201/908) 562-4103 ------------------------------ From: tronix@polari.UUCP (David Daniel) Subject: Re: Need Advice on Choosing PBX System Date: 24 Feb 90 04:25:06 GMT Reply-To: tronix@.UUCP (David Daniel) Organization: PolarServ, Seattle WA If you're sure that you want a digital PBX and you'll need 24 trunks and 76 phones, you're farther along than most customers are. In you plan on installing a LAN there likely isn't any need for simultaneous voice/data. That feature is normally used by companies that have computers located throughout their location that need to occaisionally communicate with each other. If you know you'll be putting in a LAN then you're best bet is to keep voic and data wiring separate. You may want to survey your present staff to determine what they like about your present phone system and what they don't like. Put a wish-list together that includes all features desired, even if you're not sure if they're possible. This list will allow a seller to determine the best make and model of equipment for your needs and wants. To get familiar with makers and applications I suggest you read Teleconnect Magazine. Your local library should have it. As for the makers I suggest you look into: Mitel - The 200 series with Generic 217 or above software. The Mitel SX-50 would also fit well, but if you have 24 trunks you may want to look into T1 service. The 200 series with 1003 software would work well and likely save you money using T1. The Fujitsu Focus series is also worth a look, tho with the tariffs, this equipment may be hard to get or more expensive than it should be. "What's so funny 'bout peace, love & understanding?" Elvis Costello ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Feb 90 22:43:51 EST From: Kim Fosbe Subject: Sleazy 1-976 Scheme Reply-to: Kim.Fosbe@p0.f666.n285.z1.fidonet.org Organization: DRBBS Technical BBS, Omaha, Ne. 402-896-3537 Here in Omaha, they are in the midst of a massive TV ad campaign to get people calling 1-976-TIME for time and temperature. Of course, in teeny-tiny print so small that you can barely read it they say that the call will cost you 60 cents. That's very expensive time, when you consider that one of the Omaha banks has the same thing at 342-TIME except they give you a 5-second or so commercial about "auto loans" or such as well. Of course, the bank time number is a free call. Now I know how much TV time costs and these people are on the air all night every night. They are going to have to sell a lot of "time" just to pay for the ad campaign. What I don't see is how they expect to make money unless they think that us "yokels" in Omaha are nothing but a bunch of suckers. "Time is money", they say. KRF Origin: [1:285/666@fidonet] DRBBS Technical BBS, Omaha (1:285/666) Through FidoNet gateway node 1:16/390 Kim.Fosbe@f666.n285.z1.fidonet.org ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Feb 90 22:47:18 EST From: John Ranney Subject: Unlisted Charges Reply-to: John.Ranney@p0.f666.n285.z1.fidonet.org Organization: DRBBS Technical BBS, Omaha, Ne. 402-896-3537 If you don't want to be charged for an unlisted number but don't want the general public to have immediate access to you number, change the name listed in the phone book from your real name to a fictional name. You can use any name you like for the number listed in the phone book. At least this is true in the US West books. I know because I have had this done. When you choose a name to be used, pick a common name that will be hard to distinguish from others such as, Smith, Jones, Brown, etc. Ybbat (DRBBS) 8.9 v. 3.07 r.2 Origin: [1:285/666@fidonet] DRBBS Technical BBS, Omaha (1:285/666) Through FidoNet gateway node 1:16/390 John.Ranney@f666.n285.z1.fidonet.org ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Feb 90 03:10:50 EST From: Mike Koziol Subject: Multi Message Answering Machine Our university has expressed an interest in having an information line with several pre-rcorded messages. When the person calls he would be given a list of things he could get information on and then be instructed to use the appropriate tiuch tone to get their desired recording. To sum it up a "talking phone book" concept only much smaller (6 recorded messages). I know there is some IBM compatible software in existence that will run on a pc. Anything else? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Feb 90 05:04:58 PST From: "John R. Covert 24-Feb-1990 0754" Subject: The Facts about Cellular and Caller ID >There's no reason (none at all), why cellular phones shouldn't >generate Caller*ID (eg. the person being called FROM a cellular phone >would get correct Caller*ID displayed on his box), as the 'switch' >part of a cellular system is pretty much a standard model. Dead wrong. Every cellular switch in the U.S. is connected to the local network just like a PBX. No phone company is currently offering SS7 (the prerequisite for Caller ID) as a method of connection for PBXs. This means that where there is Caller ID, the number which will appear is _not_ the cellular number, but rather the number assigned to one of the DoD trunks. In fact, when I call the New England Telephone operator in Boston from a NYNEX or Southwestern Bell cellular phone, the operator doesn't have the cellular number. >Further, I'm sure the cellular switch RECEIVES the Caller*ID >info just fine as well. Nope. Sorry. Again, cellular switches are connected without the benefit of SS7, and have no way to receive Caller ID info, which can _only_ be passed on lines (not trunks). >I don't think there's any provision in the cellular standard for text >information to be passed to the remote during call setup. Correct, and it probably won't be added to the standard. /john ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Feb 90 8:59:59 CST From: TELECOM Moderator Subject: Two Special Issues Later Today Later today (Saturday), two special issues of the Digest will be transmitted to you: WITHER JOLNET? will be a report from David Tamkin about the problems facing the administrator of this public-access Unix system following the raid a few weeks ago on his home after cracker/phreak messages were found on his machine. Some assorted comments from other users will be included, including a couple rebuttals to the Legion of Doom. CPID/ANI DEVELOPMENTS will be a memo written by Vic Toth, an attorney specializing in regulatory matters. Most of you will get these delivered Saturday afternoon or evening. Patrick Townson ------------------------------ From: Randal Schwartz Subject: Re: Murder By Phone Reply-To: Randal Schwartz Organization: Stonehenge; netaccess via Intel, Beaverton, Oregon, USA Date: Fri, 23 Feb 90 19:14:36 GMT In article <4249@accuvax.nwu.edu>, csense!bote@uunet (John Boteler) writes: | The plot (?) concerns a madman who conducts his trade by placing a | phone call to the victim, then pulsing energy down the line until the | earpiece explodes. That'd be a whole new twist on "Remote Execution", eh? Just another phone user and Unix hacker, /=Randal L. Schwartz, Stonehenge Consulting Services (503)777-0095 ==========\ | on contract to Intel's iWarp project, Beaverton, Oregon, USA, Sol III | | merlyn@iwarp.intel.com ...!any-MX-mailer-like-uunet!iwarp.intel.com!merlyn | \=Cute Quote: "Welcome to Portland, Oregon, home of the California Raisins!"=/ ------------------------------ End of TELECOM Digest V10 #126 ******************************   Received: from delta.eecs.nwu.edu by mintaka.lcs.mit.edu id aa00915; 24 Feb 90 14:17 EST Received: from mailinglists.eecs.nwu.edu by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id aa11019; 24 Feb 90 12:31 CST Received: from mailinglists.eecs.nwu.edu by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id ab32355; 24 Feb 90 11:27 CST Date: Sat, 24 Feb 90 11:02:07 CST From: TELECOM Moderator [To]: telecom@eecs.nwu.edu Subject: TELECOM Digest Special: Wither Jolnet? BCC: Message-ID: <9002241102.ab02277@delta.eecs.nwu.edu> TELECOM Digest Sat, 24 Feb 90 11:00:00 CST Special: Wither Jolnet? Today's Topics: Moderator: Patrick Townson Fate of Jolnet (David Svoboda) What Happened To Jolnet? (David Tamkin) Ramifications of Jolnet's Trouble (Bill Kuykendall via David Tamkin) Re: The Purpose and Intent of the Legion of Doom (Thomas Narten) Re: The Purpose and Intent of the Legion of Doom (Milo S. Medin) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 23 Feb 90 10:04:49 CST From: David Svoboda Subject: Fate of Jolnet Reply-To: motcid!svoboda@uunet.uu.net Moderator said, at sometime or other: >[Moderator's Note: ... No further discussion here, please. >I have no desire to see eecs.nwu.edu wind up like the late Jolnet, >which it is doubtful will be back on line anytime soon. PT] What exactly happened to Jolnet? I have not been able to read any netnews for a while, so I may have missed it. Dave Svoboda, Motorola CID, RTSG, 1510 W Shure Dr., Arlington Heights, IL uucp => {uunet|mcdchd|gatech|att}!motcid!svoboda 60004 internet => motcid!svoboda@chg.mcd.mot.com Don't listen to me, I'm just a puppet of individuality. [Moderator's Note: What happened was the feds cracked down on Jolnet when they discovered cracker/phreak messages in the files there. They shut him down and seized all the equipment; quite rudely, I might add, based on David Tamkin's report which follows. David was on line at Jolnet when the feds raided the Andrews' home and pulled the plug. PT] ------------------------------ From: David Tamkin Subject: What Happened To Jolnet? Date: Thu, 22 Feb 90 10:44:45 CST Gordon Meyer wrote in TELECOM Digest, Volume 10, Issue 118: | Could someone post a summary of what "troubles" Jolnet has seen | because of this LoD/e991 flap? Was it closed down, and by what agency | and under what charges? From my understanding it merely acted as a | conduit of the information and closing it down would be akin to | shutting down CompuServe if somone sent a copy of WordPerfect to my | mail box. That is what the rest of us understand as well: that Rich Andrews (the system administrator of Jolnet) has not been charged, but that his equipment has been seized as evidence. Jolnet served as a news and mail feed for several downstream sites, including a junior college, so those have had to do without links to the rest of the net or had to find new feeds. I was logged into Jolnet on the afternoon of February 3, reading netnews with rn. The article selection prompt began to show "(Mail)" but I kept reading news, figuring that I'd check mail when I was done. I was starting to display a new article, and after its header I pressed the space bar to see the first page. Before any text of the article came through there was a system message that the box was coming down in two minutes and that we should log off immediately to prevent corruption of files; that was followed by the first page of the netnews article, the pager prompt, and NO CARRIER. So I have unread mail there as well as some personally important files; I'll probably never see either. Jolnet has a Lockport mailing address but an Orland Park telephone number, so it probably is in Homer Township of Will County. I have been under the impression that its location is the Andrews' home. Rich pretty much ran it alone, with some assistance from two of his sons. I'd been a user there since January 29, 1989, and I had met Rich once, that being June 10, 1989, at the home of another local public site administrator. Rich was always a person who stayed out of controversies; he got along just fine with people who were at each other's throats. Other site administrators I have known love to jump into the fray or to forment the trouble in the first place, so it's rather sadly ironic that it was a nice, easygoing fellow like Rich who got burned. It's hard to say that it was his very lack of interference that got him in trouble, since all the illegally disseminated information appears to have been spread via email. Jolnet's login lines have gone unanswered since February 3, 1990. There is a contact phone number in its map entry, but I have not tried it yet. It looks like a business number in form, and I have the feeling that it, too, would ring without answer now. The Andrews' home telephone number is unlisted, and I don't know it. It's probably the only line still operating at Jolnet's location. On Sunday, February 4, there started to be news about the 911 break-in with references to "a Lockport, Illinois, bulletin board system." When Jolnet had been down for several days I started to wonder whether there was a connection, since after all, Jolnet's mailing address was in Lockport. By that Thursday there was talk about it on Chinet (a public site on the Northwest Side of Chicago), stating that Jolnet had been closed by federal agents because of its involvement. Jolnet was an AKCSNet site, but only a handful of AKCS posts came from there, mostly from three or four of us. Few people posted to Usenet from there either, at least as far as I could see in the groups I read. (In fact, except for control messages from Rich, test messages, and chi.forsale and chi.wanted [Chicago area groups], I cannot remember the last time I saw a Usenet article from Jolnet that I didn't write.) A large part of its usage came from silent readers, from uucp connections, from people who were writing, compiling, and testing code, and from people playing games like nethack and yahtzee on line. I had the impression that a significant group of the gaming crowd were friends of the Andrews' boys, but I never really knew. Others PCP'ed to Jolnet (it was dialable from ILCHI) from across the country and there were a few accounts with addresses in other countries. In total, there were 5% of the users of whom I could say that I knew what they used Jolnet for. If someone had asked me whether kracking and phreaking information was being exchanged there, I'd have said, "Not that I know; maybe in email but certainly not in public postings." Now I'd have to change that to "So I heard after it shut down but not that I ever saw while it was still running." Jolnet was my net.home; I'm now reading TELECOM Digest on Point and netnews on Gagme. I've decided to write to Rich Andrews on paper and ask what is going on with his family and his legal situation, but I cannot guarantee when or whether he will respond. Bill Kuykendall (pronounced "Kirk'ndall"), administrator of The Point (point.UUCP, from which I am submitting this), put up a system news item about how Jolnet's problems will affect The Point. He's given me permission to send it to the Digest, but this submission is already getting very long, so I am sending it under separate cover. David W. Tamkin dattier@point.UUCP ...{ddsw1,obdient!vpnet}!point!dattier BIX: dattier GEnie: D.W.TAMKIN CIS: 73720,1570 (708) 518-6769 (312) 693-0591 P. O. Box 813 Rosemont, Illinois 60018-0813 Other point users may disagree. ------------------------------ From: David Tamkin Subject: Ramifications of Jolnet's Trouble Date: Thu, 22 Feb 90 11:11:07 CST Reply-To: point!wek@ddsw1.uucp The Point is a public access AKCS and UNIX site in Chicago, Illinois. On Wednesday, February 21, 1990, its administrator, Bill Kuykendall, posted the following as a system news item in the wake of the seizure of jolnet. With his permission I am submitting it to TELECOM Digest. Mr. Kuykendall requests copies of any responses. He is reachable at wek@point.UUCP or ddsw1!point!wek. ----------------- text of announcement follows --------------------- New Restrictions at The Point ----------------------------- By now you may already be aware that 'Jolnet', one of The Point's sister systems on Usenet, has been seized as evidence in a prosecution of one or more users of the system. As far as I know, no allegations of wrongdoing have been made against Rich Andrews, Jolnet's owner, at this time. Nevertheless, Rich is without his computer until the authorities see fit to give it back to him. They may of course, opt to press some charge against him as an accomplice to the crimes of the guy they're really after. There is no guarantee that Rich's life will return to normal any time in the near future. We all wish him the best, believing that he's done nothing wrong -- except perhaps in being too generous with his personal computing resources, and trusting that appreciative users would use his system for the purposes he offered it for. Today, there is no law or precedent which affords me, as owner and system administrator of The Point, the same legal rights that other common carriers have against prosecution should some other party (you) use my property (The Point) for illegal activities. That worries me. By comparison, AT&T cannot be held liable should someone use their phone lines to transmit military secrets to an enemy. Likewise, Acme Trucking is not vulnerable to drug trafficking charges should they pull a sealed trailer of cocaine to some destination unknowingly. Yet somehow, I am presumed to be cognizant of the contents of every public message, mailed message, and file upload that passes through this public access system. On a system this size, that may be nearly a gigabyte (1+ Billion characters!) of information a year. I fully intend to explore the legal questions raised here. In my opinion, the rights to free assembly and free speech would be threatened if the owners of public meeting places were charged with the responsibility of policing all conversations held in the hallways and lavatories of their facilities for references to illegal activities. Under such laws, all privately owned meeting places would be forced out of existence, and the right to meet and speak freely would vanish with them. The common sense of this reasoning has not yet been applied to electronic meeting places by the legislature. This issue must be forced, or electronic bulletin boards will cease to exist. In the meantime, I intend to continue to operate The Point, with as little risk to myself as possible. Therefore, I am implementing a few new policies: o No user will be allowed to post any message, public or private, until his name and address has been adequately verified. Most users in the metropolitan Chicago area have already been validated through the telephone number directory service provided by Illinois Bell. Those of you who received validation notices stating that your information had not been checked due to a lack of time on my part will now have to wait until I get time before being allowed to post. Out of state addresses cannot be validated in the manner above. I am considering a U.S. Mail registration scheme, but I am skeptical about the amount of additional work involved, and the potential ways to beat the system. The short term solution for users outside of the Chicago area is to find a system closer to home than The Point. o Some of the planned enhancements to The Point are simply not going to happen until the legal issues are resolved. There will be no shell access and no file upload/download facility for now. The philosophy behind these changes is simple. I cannot (and would not want to) censor the content of all users' messages on The Point. I can encourage self-censorship, and introduce another level of accountability by removing the anonymity of the author. Shell access and file transfer would afford other opportunities for abuse of the system, and I would prefer to put any time that might be spent policing users' directories toward obtaining common carrier status for The Point, and other systems like it. My apologies to all who feel inconvenienced by these policies, but under the circumstances, I think your complaints would be most effective if made to your state and federal legislators. Please do so! Thanks. Bill Kuykendall wek@point.UUCP -------------- end of text -------------------- Submitted to Telecom Digest by David W. Tamkin dattier@point.UUCP ...{ddsw1,obdient!vpnet}!point!dattier BIX: dattier GEnie: D.W.TAMKIN CIS: 73720,1570 (708) 518-6769 (312) 693-0591 P. O. Box 813 Rosemont, Illinois 60018-0813 All other point users disagree. ------------------------------ Subject: Re: The Purpose and Intent of the Legion of Doom Date: Fri, 23 Feb 90 07:12:51 EST From: Thomas Narten >Well, I had to speak up. There has been a lot of frothing (mostly by >people who believe everything that they read in the paper) about >Legion of Doom. >LOD was formed to bring together the best minds from the computer >underground - not to do any damage or for personal profit, but to >share experiences and discuss computing. The group has *always* >maintained the highest ethical standards of hacker (or "cracker," as >you prefer) ethics. [...etc,etc.] Give me a break. Let me get this straight: the LOD's high ethical standards include hiding behind a shield of anonymity? Next you'll equate "setting the record straight" with the high ethical standards of the whistle blowers at Morton Thiokel (who risked their careers by taking a public stand). Thomas Narten PS to Moderator: Anonymous postings are a waste of everybody's time. If they want to tell their side of the story, let them accept full responsibility for it. [Moderator's Note: Indeed, I have very mixed reactions to anonymous postings. Most of them are tossed out. Now and then (as with LoD) I use them, but with reservations. PT] ------------------------------ From: "Milo S. Medin" Subject: Re: The Purpose and Intent of the Legion of Doom Date: 24 Feb 90 07:29:45 GMT Reply-To: "Milo S. Medin" Organization: NASA Science Internet Project Office Funny, if you guys are not out to do damage or mischief, and always maintain the highest professional standards, then why do the PHRACK newsletters and email we confiscated on a compromised system indicate so much childish nonsense and information on how to crack computers in many phone companies and various bad things like building explosive devices and other wholesome youthful activities? What about crazy parties at conferences that included drug use and a blatent disregard for the law? Or maybe the information that came from a BBS system that was run by LOD members wasn't representative of the great things your organization strives for? Doesn't strike me as being very cool. Thanks, Milo ------------------------------ End of TELECOM Digest Special: Wither Jolnet? ******************************   Received: from delta.eecs.nwu.edu by mintaka.lcs.mit.edu id aa08374; 24 Feb 90 21:26 EST Received: from mailinglists.eecs.nwu.edu by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id aa12077; 24 Feb 90 19:43 CST Received: from mailinglists.eecs.nwu.edu by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id aa15626; 24 Feb 90 18:35 CST Date: Sat, 24 Feb 90 17:47:01 CST From: TELECOM Moderator [To]: telecom@eecs.nwu.edu Subject: TELECOM Digest Special: CPID/ANI Developments BCC: Message-ID: <9002241747.ab19901@delta.eecs.nwu.edu> TELECOM Digest Sat, 24 Feb 90 17:45:00 CST Special: CPID/ANI Developments Today's Topics: Moderator: Patrick Townson Revised Memo: CPID/ANI Developments (Vic Toth via Don H. Kemp) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Revised Memo: CPID/ANI Developments (V. Toth) (fwd) Date: Fri, 23 Feb 90 13:35:01 EST From: Don H Kemp Forwarded message: Patrick: Appended is a memo sent to all members of the STC by Vic Toth, who is the STC counsel for regulatory affairs. It presents yet another point of view on the CLID/ANI issue. Don ----------------- Text of Memorandum ---------------- The introduction of calling number identification and delivery services over the past two years, first by the interexchange carriers and now the LECs, have not been the only developments to provoke concern over telecommunications-related privacy issues. Growth in the use of analog wireless services and, of course, the burst in "junk calling" made economical by recent long distance rate reductions are certainly also factors. But the new Caller*ID and ANI delivery services share primary responsibility for the unprecedented level of state and federal legislative and regulatory activity seeking to strengthen all forms of privacy protection. Because of the ease of public access to state regulatory forums and the high profile currently enjoyed by telecommunications generally, the telephone industry -- much more so than, for example, the direct mailers, the credit/collection industries, or other personal data manupulators -- has become the focal point of public criticism concerning issues affecting perceived personal privacy. This is, without question, a good and healthy development, perhaps even long overdue. The telcos' recent cavalier attempts to introduce new caller identification services as though "nothing has changed" now face hostile challenges, even adverse backlash, with potential technical and disappointing economic consequences. For example, network technology and new revenue generating applications are being threatened by popular but naive state and federal proposals which would mandate calling number blocking at the caller's option while refusing to recognize that this solution is not technically feasible with most forms of CPID delivery -- not even with the most sophisticated ISDN-based delivery methods. (ISDN protocol allows for the insertion of a "privacy code" in the data stream, but nevertheless delivers the private data across the network on the presumption that the receipient will honor the "code".) Although Caller*ID and other similar Calling Party Identification (CPID) services so far have been approved in more jurisdictions than have turned them down, it is apparent that momentum is building against their deployment, at least in their intended mode -- that is, on a universal, nonoptional basis without number blocking. The proponents of ubiquitous CPID delivery appear to be at a loss to come up with a publicly acceptable yet cost effective technical or alternative service solution to the publics' privacy concerns which would not also substantially undermine CPID functionality and its commercial and private utility. Specifically, the public's privacy concerns seem to have settled on the three obviious: (1) protection of the caller's need or desire under particular calling circumstances not to disclose the number from which his/her call is originating; (2) a perceived telephone company duty to avoid all forms of unwarranted number disclosure on behalf of those who have subscribed to and rely on nonpublished and unlisted telephone number service; and (3) control over the use and dissemination of CPID information delivered over the network. But despite its best intentions, to date CPID proponents have been able to agree only on the following meager suggestions: (1) promotion of the use of telephones, calling card and local operator services as means by which callers can avoid disclosing their telephone number; and (2) help agencies and institutions requiring protection against number disclosure or unwanted "call backs" should order service from a designated local exchange set aside by the LEC to guarantee number anonymity, or subscribe to so-called outward-only exchange services. (While the US West operating companies have acquiesed to requiring nondisclosure agreements from noncarrier recipients of CPID information as a method of containing abuse, this practice is far from considered acceptable by the carrier industry generally.) The first set of alternatives leaves an impression of arrogance and insensitivity to the practical needs and circumstances of callers desiring number anonymity. The second alternatives are not universally available and will involve added line costs to the help agencies. As for controls limiting re-use and resale of network generated information, the CPID providers fear that these would undermine the usefulness of CPID information to a large segment of the potential commercial market. Calling number blocking is surfacing as everyone's suggested answer to the number anonymity problem. While both selective call-by-call or calling line number blocking on all calls are technically feasible, they tend to deminish the utility of CPID services for present and planned applications. However, CPID proponents appear willing to accept very limited blocking provided it is extended only to certain categories of customers and call-based help services, such as hot lines. But this solution could prove impossible to administer and might even be unlawfully discriminatory under existing regulatory statutes. The lack of significant progress after nearly two years of wrestling with the CPID privacy issues suggests the need to exhaust and possibly mandate nontechnical approaches. These might include the following: First, there should be strict institutional controls limiting the use of CPID and other telephone generated data and information, and restricting telemarketing call practices. Such controls could be industry self-administered or, if this proves to be ineffective, they could be prescribed by regulators and set forth in the telcos' exchange tariffs. In either case, consensus on specific conduct guidelines will not be reached among industry participants alone without the intervention of either legislators or regulators. Thus, it behooves the CPID advocates -- both providers and potential users -- to move in this direction and embrace outside intervention in developing a code of conduct quickly, before short-sighted technical restraints or other absolute prohibitions are immposed and become irreversible. Second, there should be a widespread CPID public awareness campaign sponsored by CPID providers and supported by all commercial users of such services and those who manufacture or sell products capable of receiving or capturing CPID data. Third, the industry should adopt a simple, universally recognisible symbol (such as the asterick) which can be printed in association with the publication or other promotion of any telephone number which is equipped to capture CPID information. The purpose of this symbol would be to alert callers that their number or other network identifiable information might be captured or recognized by the called party. It would appear in directories and in all ads or other promotions involving display of numbers equipped to receive CPID information. Finally, if and where CPID blocking is prescribed, it should be offered only to existing subscribers and only for a reasonable transitional period. Blocking should not be offered to new or changed subscribers, and should be phasessd out for grandfathered subscribers after a reasonable period has been allowed for all customers to become familiar with the fact that new and evolving telecommunications capabilities and services can no longer assure number anonymity. (New and relocating subscribers would be informed that there can no longer be an automatic expectation of caller anonymity with normal uses of the telephone network.) Meanwhile, the publicity evoked by Caller*ID has had a multiplier effect. It has stimulated public policy debate, first at the state and now the federal level, on telecommuications privacy issues extending beyond just the original question of caller anonymity. This, in turn, has resulted in an unprecedented number of legislative and regulatory proposals and even judicial proceedings which , if not effectively addressed by knowledgeable and interested parties, could lead to a patch quilt of unworkable or ineffective new laws and regulations which fall short of satisfying either sides' best interests and which could have unintended and disappointing results. The most recent step targeted at curbing the spread of CPID/ANI deployment without controls was the introduction of Senate Bill S. 2030 by Senator Kohl (D.WI) referred to as the "Telephone Privacy Act of 1990". This bill would amend The Electronic Privacy Act of l986 to require that any provider of telephone services which include a caller identification delivery capability must also furnish, at no additional charge, the capability for the caller to prevent the "dissemination of their telephone numbers to persons of their choosing." Civil remedies would be made available to persons aggrieved by violations of the new law. According to Senator Kohl, the purpose of the bill is not to curb technology, but to open debate on telecommunications-related privacy issues generally. Moving in this same direction, Dr. Bonnie Guiton, Special Advisor to the President on Consumer Affairs, has convened a task force of industry representatives, known as the Privacy in Telecommunications Working Group, to make recommendations to how to proceed in this emerging privacy area. (I have been invited as a member of the task group). While the Kohl Bill and CPID/ANI issues generally fall within the scope of the task force assignment, it will address all areas of telecommunications privacy-related matters. ---------- end of text of memoradum ------------ Don H Kemp "Always listen to experts. They'll B B & K Associates, Inc. tell you what can't be done, and Rutland, VT why. Then do it." uunet!uvm-gen!teletech!dhk Lazarus Long [Moderator's Note: Thank you for supplying a copy of this to the Digest. It will be filed in the Archives under the title of this issue. PT] ------------------------------ End of TELECOM Digest Special: CPID/ANI Developments ******************************   Received: from delta.eecs.nwu.edu by mintaka.lcs.mit.edu id aa05292; 26 Feb 90 12:07 EST Date: Sun, 25 Feb 90 1:58:19 CST From: TELECOM Moderator To: telecom@eecs.nwu.edu Subject: TELECOM Digest V10 #127 Message-ID: <9002250158.aa20967@delta.eecs.nwu.edu> Resent-Date: Sun, 25 Feb 90 10:17:09 CST Resent-From: telecom@eecs.nwu.edu Resent-To: telecom-recent@lcs.mit.edu TELECOM Digest Sun, 25 Feb 90 01:58:01 CST Volume 10 : Issue 127 Today's Topics: Moderator: Patrick Townson Jolnet's Troubles (John Higdon) AT&T Sourcecode: Poison! (TELECOM Moderator) Poor Design of Telephone System (Thomas Lapp) ISDN on University Campus (David Klur) Two CLASS Calling Services Questions (Lou Judice) Re: 900 Services (Lou Judice) Re: Tone Block (Tom Lowe) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Jolnet's Troubles Reply-To: John Higdon Organization: Green Hills and Cows Date: 24 Feb 90 21:08:23 PST (Sat) From: John Higdon There were a number of concerns not addressed or even mentioned in the special issue on the seizure of Jolnet. How did the authorities learn of cracker/phreak messages in the files? Did they login as users and look around? Were there *really* clandestine messages there or is that just the official line? Did they just seize the machine assuming they could find something incriminating? As administrator for zygot, should I start reading my users' mail to make sure they aren't saying anything naughty? Should I snoop thorough all the files to make sure everyone is being good? I have no idea what gets posted directly to USENET, since I have better things to do than monitor the inews log. Could this be a problem? This whole affair is rather chilling. Bill Kuykendall is absolutely correct when he urges people to contact their legislators and get some of these issues resolved. I remember the bad old days that anyone who seemed to have technical knowledge about the telephone network was viewed with a great deal of suspicion. I would rather not see the day come that anyone with a networked computer is one step away from arrest. John Higdon | P. O. Box 7648 | +1 408 723 1395 john@zygot.ati.com | San Jose, CA 95150 | M o o ! [Moderator's Note: More news has arrived here since the issue on Jolnet was released yesterday. It appears the 911 software problem was the tip of the iceberg. When the feds went to visit Andrews, all sorts of worms started coming out the can. Read the next message today..... PT] ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Feb 90 19:54:19 CST From: TELECOM Moderator Subject: AT&T Sourcecode: Poison! The news on the street is that there is more to the Jolnet stink than has been previously revealed -- We're told by a deep-throat type that AT&T is on the war path about their software, and that 3b2 people in particular are targeted for 'counseling' and whatever corrective action is deemed necessary by 'the authorities'. So the story on the street goes, another prominent netter was arrested just recently by the same friendly folks who shut down Jolnet not long ago. Like jolnet, netsys went down abruptly, with *everything* confiscated, including a box of old busted up circuit boards in the basement which hadn't been looked at in years. Now comes news that attcdc, formerly known as killer went off line in a hurry..... When 'the authorities' come a-calling, with warrant in hand, and their credentials in order, they start looking for Mother's source code; 3b2 stuff and the like, and they keep looking until they find it. You say they won't come knocking at your door? You say you'll take it all off line and store it on a reel of tape stashed in the back of the bottom drawer of an old file cabinet somewhere? They *will* find it. And when they find it, your choices will be: 1) You stole this from AT&T. You are a cracker. You'll go to jail. 2) If you didn't steal it from AT&T, then someone gave it to you. Tell us who.... if you won't tell us, then go back to choice 1. If you will snitch, and tell us who gave you this code, then the Court will be lenient and show mercy upon you -- but we won't put that in writing of course! :) Faced with these two options, of course everyone selects choice 2. And with the new information gleaned from the visit, another site is scheduled for downtime. Consider Rich Andrews of Jolnet: Our deep-throat says Rich was first confronted in the 911 software caper, then the feds found other goodies. Could it be the feds started squeezing in a private place and Rich started singing the tune they wanted to hear? Do crackers stick together when times get tough or do they turn on each other? You just never know about these things. Some people have been saying the only safe thing to do at this point is 'rm illegal.software'; go wash their hands and be done with it, but far be it from me to suggest such a thing. That could be construed as an obstruction of justice in what appears now to be an on-going investigation in our net community of people whose systems are dirty.... Jolnet ===> netsys ===> attcdc (killer) ===> your 3b2 site name here. Patrick Townson ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Feb 90 20:56:42 est From: Thomas Lapp Subject: Poor Design of Telephone System Reply-To: thomas%mvac23@udel.edu >From: Dan "the Man with the Plan" Ross >Subject: Re: Centrex and 9xxx Numbers >Date: 22 Feb 90 08:00:38 GMT >Organization: U of Wisconsin CS Dept >part of the 495 exchange. Intracampus calls are made by the last _5_ >digits, so there are numbers of the form 471-9XXX. The dorm >"exchange" includes 495-5XXX and 495-3XXX and possibly more. The gap >The fun arises when you dial a number 495-XXXX from on campus; unless >you know someone lives in the dorm, you just have to try it: >9-495-XXXX or 5-XXXX. (There are state and city offices, as well as a >cookie store (!) on 495-XXXX.) And the wrong one will not work! This brings to mind the sad story of the installation of a new phone switch by West Virginia University Hospitals, Inc. to service their brand new hospital. The background: The old hospital was associated with the University and thus was part of the university-owned Centrex system. All university numbers are of the form 293-xxxx. When dialing within the Centrex, only the last 4 digits are needed. However, when the new hospital was built, it was (and is) owned by WVUH, Inc, which is a private company. They decided that they would install their very own Rolm switch and also leased? the 598-4xxx from the local phone company. This meant that if you are in the community, you can dial someone's hospital room with 598-4xxx. Now here is where the poor planning comes into play. They found that 1000 numbers wasn't enough for the hospital, and so they added the 3xxx series to the Rolm switch. However, they did not get this group from the local phone company, which means that 598-3xxx is guaranteed to not be a number at the hospital. So from within the hospital there are a bunch of internal-only telephone numbers (mostly nurses stations and numbers that people outside the hospital really shouldn't need to call). But the problem gets worse. Many of the doctors do not have offices in the new hospital, but still have their offices in the old building which is served by the Centrex system. Due to cost and probably politics, it was decided that they would keep their old phones and not receive service off of the Rolm switch. But doctors ARE one community that would have a need to access the 3xxx internal-only numbers in the new building. Beginning to see the problems? One solution might be that a system be set up so that when they dial 3xxx or 4xxx from their Centrex phone, that it go to the Rolm switch and be routed correctly. However, that was out since 3xxx and 4xxx are already assigned numbers elsewhere on campus on the Centrex. So the solution was to put a 'key' in front of the number in order to force the call to be routed from Centrex to Rolm or vice-versa. The third thing wrong here was that Rolm and the Centrex can't use the same prefix on numbers. So if you are calling from Centrex to Rolm, you preface the number with "*1" and if going the other way you have to preface with "11". A most undesirable solution, since it requires that you know where you are and where you are trying to get to and you have to memorize two methods of calling. The last item does not relate directly to the telephone switches themselves but do relate. Some years ago, the hospital migrated from voice pagers to digital pagers which display four digits in sequence using one LED digit. That was fine when it was installed. When 4095 showed up, you dialed 4095 and it went through. However, now that there are two sets of 3xxx and 4xxx, there is no way to tell if you are being paged for 293-4095 or 598-4095 when 4095 shows up in the display. So the bright folks in administration decided that numbers in the new hospital are to be paged as 5xxx and 6xxx (ie. take number, add 2000 to it, then enter that as the page). This is nice if you remember to do this. Or remember that it is the new building which has to have 2000 added rather than the old building. Voice paging over the two building intercom system gets kind of funny too. "Dr. Weiser, please call 4565 in Ruby" or "Dr. Jones, please call 4354 Health Sciences" (Ruby = Ruby Memorial = Rolm; Health Sciences = Centrex). Oh the joys of being able to operate your very own phone company. Looks like the learning curve for some people is going to be pretty steep. I guess the obvious solution in this case would be to install 5 digit dialing for extensions within either system. But I guess since the University did not want to have to change the way the ENTIRE university dialed extensions, they did not go this route. - tom internet : mvac23!thomas@udel.edu or thomas%mvac23@udel.edu uucp : {ucbvax,mcvax,psuvax1,uunet}!udel!mvac23!thomas Europe Bitnet: THOMAS1@GRATHUN1 Location: Newark, DE, USA Quote : Virtual Address eXtension. Is that like a 9-digit zip code? [Moderator's Note: This reminds me of a department store in downtown Chicago which had centrex for how many ever years. ROLM sold them a bill of goods, so they dumped centrex for a ROLM switch. They kept all the numbers they had under centrex and set them up as DID to ring straight through to the extensions they had always been on. But like your case, they needed more extensions so they installed a bunch on the ROLM that do *not* relate back to the identical CO number. Only they never bothered to explain all this to the employees with the new style extension numbers who assumed they too could receive calls from their personal friends all day without going through the store operator. For almost a month, Chicago City Colleges (the people with the CO numbers like the new extensions at the store) wondered why they got all those wrong numbers. Talk about Dumb with a capital /D/. PT] ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Feb 90 17:05:58 EST From: "David Klur @earth.mlkwy.u" Subject: ISDN on University Campus I'm doing research on the inplementation of an ISDN at the University of Pennsylvania. I was wondering if anyone knew of current ISDN trials at other Universities, or where I could get some more information on this subject. Thanks in advance... _ | \ __ . _| |_/ (_|~\/|(_)` David Klur klur@eniac.seas.upenn.edu University of Pennsylvania ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Feb 90 20:31:33 PST From: "Lou Judice @KYO / DTN 323-4103" Subject: Two CLASS Calling Services Questions... How exactly does the Caller*ID box behave when calls are received from outside the area code and/or exchanges that do not transmit the ANI information? Eventually, will Caller*ID work across area codes??? For those states with per-call Caller*ID blocking, is the Caller*ID box display disabled or is the ANI not transmitted at all? Ie., is Call*Trace and Return*Call disabled as well??? [If not, then it would seem easy to get the caller's # by returning their call, and checking the number on your next bill.] Ooops, more than two questions! Thanks, Lou Judice Digital Equipment Corp. Piscataway, NJ (201 | 908) 562-4103 [Moderator's Note: Also please note the special issue Saturday on CPID/ANI. Although sending a blocking code can be done, as Vic Toth points out, you are assuming one telco will *honor* the blocking code sent by another telco. And the word we are getting from Illinois Bell is that (once CLASS is implemented later this year) if the number is otherwise unavailable then attempts to 'return call' will fail. You will be able to store it in your list of numbers you won't accept calls from, but when you review the file of same, while other numbers will be spoken to you, those that had blocked ID will be termed 'private entry'. PT] ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Feb 90 20:26:22 PST From: "Lou Judice @KYO / DTN 323-4103" Subject: Re: 900 Services I was really surprised while watching a travel program on WNYC (a NYC Public TV station) to see an ad for the Nice, France tourist board - and a 900 (!!!) number to call, at 50 cents/minute for travel information! What happened to FREE information? /ljj ------------------------------ Subject: Re: Tone Block Date: 24 Feb 90 10:43:51 EST (Sat) From: Tom Lowe > From: Daniel A Margolis > The ability to suspend Call Waiting is called *TONE-BLOCK* here in New > Jersey Bell land, but here's the catch - you have to subscribe to it. > You have to pay 50 cents extra per month to use it. Not necessarily true...I have it and I don't pay 50 cents per month for it. It was never mentioned to me when I signed up and it not on the list of features I subscribed to. I suspect that if you don't have three way calling and you want to disable call waiting on inbound calls, you may have to pay the 50 cents to give you the ability to flash hook to get secondary dial tone and dial your *70. I have three way calling, so I can do that already. Does anyone out there in Bell Atlantic country pay for this fifty cents/month Tone Block Feature? If I remember, I'll give the business office a call next week and ask them some questions. Tom Lowe AT&T Bell Labs Holmdel, NJ tel@cdsdb1.ATT.COM 201-949-0428 [Moderator's Note: But for that fifty cents per month for the right to interim dial tone, what prevents you from dialing whatever you want against that dial tone, i.e. a complete number of another party? I don't think you are correct on this. PT] ------------------------------ End of TELECOM Digest V10 #127 ******************************   Received: from delta.eecs.nwu.edu by mintaka.lcs.mit.edu id aa23231; 26 Feb 90 18:13 EST Received: from mailinglists.eecs.nwu.edu by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id aa21277; 26 Feb 90 2:05 CST Received: from mailinglists.eecs.nwu.edu by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id aa25467; 26 Feb 90 0:55 CST Date: Mon, 26 Feb 90 0:18:32 CST From: TELECOM Moderator [To]: telecom@eecs.nwu.edu Subject: TELECOM Digest V10 #128 BCC: Message-ID: <9002260018.ab28342@delta.eecs.nwu.edu> TELECOM Digest Mon, 26 Feb 90 00:17:11 CST Volume 10 : Issue 128 Today's Topics: Moderator: Patrick Townson Dial L for Lawyer (Michael C. Berch) Speaking of Security Codes (John G. Dobnick) Pentagon (et. al.) Prefix Mapping (John Boteler) MCI and Fictitious Calling Card Numbers (Edward Greenberg) Telco For Sale (TELECOM Moderator) Gov't Confiscation of Bulletin Boards (Don Alvarez) Re: Centrex and 9xxx Numbers (Dave Levenson) Re: Envoy 100 (Stuart Lynne) Re: *TONE-BLOCK* (John Higdon) Re: *TONE-BLOCK* (Steve Forrette) Re: The Facts about Cellular and Caller ID (Bob Sherman) Re: The Facts about Cellular and Caller ID (Steve Forrette) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 25 Feb 90 01:05:34 -0800 From: "Michael C. Berch" Subject: Dial L for Lawyer (This is from CALIFORNIA LAWYER, January 1990) "HUNTINGTON BEACH-- His friends were always bugging Michael Cane for free legal advice. So Cane decided to make every utterance pay. Since October he has been running what he says is the nation's first call-in lawyer hotline. Five days a week, 12 hours a day, Cane and five other attorneys work the phones dispensing legal pointers at 'Tele-Lawyer.' The cost: $3 a minute, charged to the caller's phone bill or credit card. 'This is preventive law,' says Cane, sitting in his office waiting for calls on the 900-line service. 'We handle the small questions before they become big problems.' [...] Officials at the State Bar and the American Bar Association say they are unaware of any similar telephone services in the country. For now, the State Bar says it will treat the services as just another law firm. Cane says he consulted with bar officials before opening for business. Although the idea of a legal phone service had bounced around in Cane's head for a long time, he took action only last year. He has invested about $500,000 in the project and is already thinking about expansion. 'It's a needed service, he says. 'I don't people realize how much it is needed.'" =========================================== My comment: "Only in California..." Michael C. Berch mcb@presto.ig.com / uunet!presto.ig.com!mcb / ames!bionet!mcb ------------------------------ From: John G Dobnick Subject: Speaking of Security Codes Date: Sun, 25 Feb 90 3:09:36 CDT John Higdon says: > ... the silliness of relying on > two-digit "security" code to protect ... I recently received a Panasonic (Matsushita) Easa-Phone Auto-logic answering machine (the KX-T1470 model). It allows remote access to all its functions (including "room monitor"!), but has only a 2-digit "security code". Now, being in the computer game, it is obvious to me that two-character passwords are less than sufficient. However, what really concerns me is that there seems to be no way to disable this remote access. My question to you good folks on this list is: Can remote access be totally supressed on this beastie? I see no way to do so. If this _is_ mentioned in the manual, it isn't obvious to me. Thank you, John G Dobnick Computing Services Division @ University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee INTERNET: jgd@csd4.csd.uwm.edu UUCP: uunet!uwm!csd4.csd.uwm.edu!jgd "Knowing how things work is the basis for appreciation, and is thus a source of civilized delight." -- William Safire ------------------------------ Subject: Pentagon (et. al.) Prefix Mapping Date: Fri, 23 Feb 90 16:51:10 EST From: John Boteler >Fr: Greg Monti >Re: Pentagon Prefixes >Well, this is a fine mess that DoD, FTS and/or C&P have created.... >According to the C&P Northern Virginia January 1990 directory, there >is no 602 prefix in area code 202. It's in 703 in the >Alexandria-Arlington Rate Area.... >True Pentagon prefixes like 692 are in 202. But they also cannot be >reached by dialing 202-692-XXXX from Northern Virginia. That could be >an error in programming at my central office... >The reason some phones may have been split off into 602 prefix is that >they are *not* physically located in the Pentagon or on the pieces of >DoD property which are immediatley contiguous to it (Arlington >National Cemetery and the Defense Communication Agency).... The telephone network is complex, to be sure, but not so much so that we mere mortals cannot understand it. I am currently building a project using a home-brew crosspoint switch, and am struggling to find a method for programming the logic map that will control it. My decisions on how the switch responds to input addresses are good for me, but maybe not the next guy who comes along and copies my design. No problem, he simply uses a different map, and implements it by programming his own EPROM. Same applies to the telephone network in concept. The maps which guide your call through the switches are presently programmed to send 202-602-9969 to an intercept, and 703-602-9969 to a working station. They could just as easily be programmed for the reverse, or for both numbers to connect to the same working station. The routing information is nothing more than a database, subject to frequent change in this new-exchange-a-week world we live in. Rule 1. Never trust the CO listings in the front of the C&P phone books; they are notoriously inaccurate. The names listed are the calling zones, not the CO names, and are worthless for pinpointing anyone. Rule 2. Don't worry, be happy about the mappings as they stand--they will change soon enough, causing you more consternation if you care to follow them. Rule 3. The Telephone Company(TM) may be omnipotent (that's POTENT with omni in front) but there is always somebody bigger around--Uncle Sam; if U.S. wants DoD in 202, then, dammit, they get it in 202! John Boteler NCN NudesLine: 703-241-BARE -- VOICE only, Touch-Tone (TM) accessible {zardoz|uunet!tgate|cos!}ka3ovk!media!csense!bote ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Feb 90 06:19 PST From: Edward_Greenberg@cso.3mail.3com.com Subject: MCI and Fictitious Calling Card Numbers I got an MCI calling card number too... Unlike most of you, I WANTED my phone number plus 4 digits, since I felt that four digits were sufficient. Since I had once, a long time ago, had an MCI card with my own phone number on it, I was told I could never have one again. Since all the numbers are dead, I can tell them... The phone number was 415-459-7862. The Calling card was 475-459-8439-xxxx (I don't remember the pin.) Seems that this numbering scheme on fictitions calling cards is (was?) universal to MCI. -edg ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Feb 90 10:09:06 CST From: TELECOM Moderator Subject: Telco For Sale Puerto Rico governor Rafael Hernandez Colon has announced that the Puerto Rico Telephone Company is for sale. He wants a minimum of $2 billion for the company, or best offer above that point. The money will be used to pay for education reforms and development on the Caribbean island. Acccording to the governor, Puerto Rico Telephone is the only company on the island which 'has enough value' to generate the money needed to revamp Puerto Rico's school system and the island's infrastructure. Long ago, the telephone company there had been privately owned; the government bought it for $165 million in 1974 when it had been almost totally abandoned and was in disarray with only 300,000 working telephone lines. By careful nurturing, the company grew, and prospered. PR Telephone made $70 million in net income in 1989, and now accounts for 1 million telephones in this U.S. Commonwealth of 3.3 million people. Thus far, no one has shown an active interest in purchasing Puerto Rico Telephone, but the offer is still open. For more information, or to make an offer, contact the governor's office. Patrick Townson ------------------------------ From: Don Alvarez Subject: Gov't Confiscation of Bulletin Boards Date: 25 Feb 90 19:01:24 GMT Reply-To: Don Alvarez Organization: Princeton University With all this discussion of Gov't confiscations of electronic bulletin boards, it would certainly be worthwhile for anyone who operates a bulletin board to bop on down to their local library and do a little reading. Two sections that I highly recommend are The Electronic Communications Privacy Act (PL 99-508, HR 4952) and the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act (USC title 18 section 1030). They are short, readable by ordinary humans, and your reference librarian should have no trouble helping you locate them. Anyone who operates an electronic bulletin board really owes it to themself to have at least some idea where they and the law stand. There are a number of interesting twists to the ECPA worth knowing about. A year or so ago, I typed in the text to the (then under discussion in the House) Computer Fraud and Abuse Act. It might be a little outdated or incorrect now, but it is in electronic form, and I'll send a copy of it separately to the moderator. If he doesn't feel like posting it, you can drop me a line and ask me to send you a copy. Unfortunately, the one you folks really want to read is probably the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, and I don't know have an electronic copy of that (anyone feel like doing a little typing?) Don [Moderator's Note: Thanks for the copy you sent. It has been filed in the TELECOM Archives under the title 'computer.fraud.abuse.act' for anyone who wants a copy. The archives are available via ftp from lcs.mit.edu in the telecom-archives directory. PT] ------------------------------ From: Dave Levenson Subject: Re: Centrex and 9xxx Numbers Date: 23 Feb 90 02:10:51 GMT Organization: Westmark, Inc., Warren, NJ, USA In article <4112@accuvax.nwu.edu>, djcl@contact.uucp (woody) writes: > Several years ago, the University of Toronto used a Centrex that took > up most of the 978 exchange. However, since extensions couldn't start > with 9 (dial 9 to get local dial tone), there was a gap in the 978 > Perhaps there are other examples of the -9xxx gap where Centrex, or > other direct-dial extension systems are used out there... Most Centrex groups use less than a full 10,000 numbers, and so there are ordinary subscriber lines with numbers having the same prefix. The 0xxx and 9xxx groups are generally not assigned to centrex, so as to provide attendant and 'outside' access. Sometimes there are other centrex groups with the same prefix, but members of one group must dial 9+ 7 digits to reach members of the other. Remember, a centrex is generally not a physical switch, it's a software-defined group of lines (with a group of numbers) which subscribe to a special group of features. Dave Levenson Voice: (201 | 908) 647 0900 Westmark, Inc. Internet: dave@westmark.uu.net Warren, NJ, USA UUCP: {uunet | rutgers | att}!westmark!dave [The Man in the Mooney] AT&T Mail: !westmark!dave ------------------------------ From: sl@van-bc.UUCP (Stuart Lynne) Subject: Re: Envoy 100 Date: 26 Feb 90 02:00:46 GMT Reply-To: sl@van-bc.UUCP (Stuart Lynne) Organization: Wimsey Associates In article <4300@accuvax.nwu.edu> "Robert P. Warnock" writes: >X-Telecom-Digest: Volume 10, Issue 124, Message 6 of 11 >| hooking them up to a system called "Envoy 100". (It's a billable >It's just a commercial e-mail service. Happens to be run (indirectly) >by the Canadian government. Fees are charged for connect time, Very indirectly. It's run by a company called Telecom Canada. Which in turn is owned by the government. The Canadian Telco's are involved as well. Telecom Canada is apparantly being put on the block by the government (as of last Tuesday's federal budget). >in fairly isolated locations. Telenet's "local" access ports are a >winner for this population. Envoy was originally a clone of Telenet's Telemail. I havn't used it in a number of years, but don't imagine they have re-implemented it from scratch. I did use both it and Telemail from 1982 to about 1985. It was ok but pricey. Stuart.Lynne@wimsey.bc.ca ubc-cs!van-bc!sl 604-937-7532(voice) 604-939-4768(fax) ------------------------------ Reply-To: John Higdon Subject: Re: *TONE-BLOCK* Date: 25 Feb 90 09:06:51 PST (Sun) From: John Higdon > [Moderator's Note: But for that fifty cents per month for the right to > interim dial tone, what prevents you from dialing whatever you want against > that dial tone, i.e. a complete number of another party? I don't > think you are correct on this. PT] There is dial tone on my statewide 800 number. You might ask, "What would prevent someone from making calls on that line (for which it is not tariffed)?" If you dial anything other than an intercom code, you get a recording. The reason for the dial tone in the first place is so that the line can access the Commstar features, and calls can be transferred. Maybe the "Tone Block" interim dial tone is so restricted if the customer doesn't have three way calling. John Higdon | P. O. Box 7648 | +1 408 723 1395 john@bovine.ati.com | San Jose, CA 95150 | M o o ! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Feb 90 19:20:50 PST From: Steve Forrette Subject: Re: *TONE-BLOCK* Organization: University of California, Berkeley In article <4319@accuvax.nwu.edu> you write: >The ability to suspend Call Waiting is called *TONE-BLOCK* here in New >Jersey Bell land, but here's the catch - you have to subscribe to it. >You have to pay 50 cents extra per month to use it. The same thing was true last year when I lived in GTE land in Washington State. Maybe SWB should give everyone call waiting for free, then charge $10/month for cancel call waiting - then they would effectively have their modem surcharge! :-) ------------------------------ From: Bob Sherman Subject: Re: The Facts about Cellular and Caller ID Organization: U of Miami Dept. of Math. and Computer Science, Coral Gables, FL Date: Mon, 26 Feb 90 00:27:54 GMT In article <4329@accuvax.nwu.edu> it is written: >>There's no reason (none at all), why cellular phones shouldn't >>generate Caller*ID (eg. the person being called FROM a cellular phone >>would get correct Caller*ID displayed on his box), as the 'switch' >>part of a cellular system is pretty much a standard model. Upon checking here in the Miami, Florida area, where caller ID is currently under consideration by the PSC, I am told there will be NO caller ID available on calls made FROM cellular phones or Pay phones. bsherman@mthvax.cs.miami.edu | bsherman@pro-exchange | MCI MAIL: BSHERMAN >> Miami's Big Apple - 305-948-8000 - 24 hours - 300/1200 - PCP'able << >> Oldest Apple support board in Southeast. Now in it's ninth year. << ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Feb 90 19:33:01 PST From: Steve Forrette Subject: Re: The Facts About Cellular and Caller ID Organization: University of California, Berkeley In article <4329@accuvax.nwu.edu> you write: >>I don't think there's any provision in the cellular standard for text >>information to be passed to the remote during call setup. >Correct, and it probably won't be added to the standard. >/john It's also been my experience that ANI is not available for calls FROM a cellular phone. Not even 911 knows who you are. I once was having problems dialing a long distance call, and the AT&T operator said that they can't provide call completion assistance for direct dial calls from cellular since they don't know who you are. There was a posting in the Digest a couple of months ago that mentioned that one of the new Motorola hand-helds had a Caller ID display built into it. I'm not sure I understand how this would work, considering the current protocols and MTSO-BOC connections. Anyone know? ------------------------------ End of TELECOM Digest V10 #128 ******************************   Received: from delta.eecs.nwu.edu by mintaka.lcs.mit.edu id aa19331; 27 Feb 90 4:39 EST Received: from mailinglists.eecs.nwu.edu by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id aa31177; 27 Feb 90 2:52 CST Received: from mailinglists.eecs.nwu.edu by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id aa02092; 27 Feb 90 1:46 CST Date: Tue, 27 Feb 90 1:28:37 CST From: TELECOM Moderator [To]: telecom@eecs.nwu.edu Subject: TELECOM Digest V10 #129 BCC: Message-ID: <9002270128.ab12023@delta.eecs.nwu.edu> TELECOM Digest Tue, 27 Feb 90 01:25:14 CST Volume 10 : Issue 129 Today's Topics: Moderator: Patrick Townson Re: MCI and Imaginary Calling Card Numbers (Robert Gutierrez) Re: MCI Playing "Switcheroo" (Bob Goudreau) Re: Sprint Plus (Carol Springs) Re: CPID/ANI Developments (John R. Levine) Re: More 800, 900 Curiosities (Robert Gutierrez) Re: Speaking of Security Codes (John Higdon) Caller*ID to RS-232 (Michael Scott Baldwin) Bargain Canadian Telephone Rates? (Fred Fierling) Mother's Source Code = ?? (Thomas Lapp) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Robert Gutierrez Subject: Re: MCI and Imaginary Calling Card Numbers Date: 26 Feb 90 07:41:10 GMT Reply-To: Robert Gutierrez Organization: NASA ARC MJB8949@ritvax.bitnet (Nutsy Fagen) writes: > Several months ago, I ordered an MCI calling card in relation to a > frequent-flyer promotion. Since I am a college student, I wanted a > calling card ONLY, preferably with no link to my parent's real phone. > (Like my imaginary 677-xxx-xxxx ATT calling card). > This simple request, however, blew away at least three MCI operators, > as well as got me bounced around several times before I gave in and > relinquished my parent's number 'for reference purposes only'. This type of account with MCI is called a "Stand Alone Card Account", which might help anybody else who gets one from MCI in the future. The problem is they need to verify anybody who gets one. MCI use to set up such accounts about 2-3 years ago to just *anybody* who called in, and usually took about 30 seconds of typing into the computer to do. Needless to say, this was found out in the 'phraker' community, and after they took a good 3 month beating, went to verification. The last time I was at Customer Service, the verification was either a phone in your name (verified by CNA) or a relative's phone in their name. Also, no P.O. box only accounts allowed, you had to provide a street address. > When the card came, sure enough, it was my home phone number with a > PIN thrown on. It also had my name spelled wrong :) Looks like you didn't have your own phone # to provide them, and MCI's computer (called OCIS [pronounced OH-sys] - "On Line Information System", a CICS application running under MVS) needs a phone number to attach to an account. No way to open an account in OCIS unless a phone number is typed in. Also, OCIS *always* assigns the phone number as the first card, but uses the XXX-NXX-XXXX-???? combo for subsequent cards. Also, a lot of CSR's get mixed up when you ask for additional cards, since you can type in the number of duplicates for an existing card or a number of new cards. (Somebody typed in 10 new cards and 10 copies once, and the customer got a box of 100 MCI cards one day....). > A quick call to MCI corrected the name problem, although I neglected > to mention that I wanted an imaginary card. However, when my new > cards came, one was based on the real number, and the other was > completely new, based (I assume) on an imaginary 335-458-xxxx number. > An interesting note is that my home phone number is 315-458-yyyy. There is a phone number in San Luis Obispo (California) that is an OPX (Off Premise eXtension) for the Army, which had over 100 accounts based on that phone number. How far off was the OPX.....try Guam! > I will be sure to have my father check his next few bills, just to be safe. Depends how new the CSR is. Usually he/she has only been there about a week or so. P.S.: Don't call on Holloween to Customer Service in California and expect an answer fast.......The office is in San Francisco, and you all know Holloween is a National Holiday in San Francisco. Especially in MCI's Customer Service center there........ Robert Gutierrez NASA Science Internet Network Operations Moffett Feild, California. ".....and you know the public's perception of the phone company.... We're the most hated people around." Pat Harrington, "The Presidents Analyst" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Feb 90 13:15:54 est From: Bob Goudreau Subject: Re: MCI Playing "Switcheroo" Reply-To: goudreau@larrybud.rtp.dg.com (Bob Goudreau) Organization: Data General Corporation, Research Triangle Park, NC In article <4229@accuvax.nwu.edu>, Leichter-Jerry@cs.yale.edu writes: > Absolutely. As a general principle in the law, verbal contracts are > valid. (There are exceptions, but they are in very specific > circumstances and usually by statute.) Non-lawyers often make the > mistake of assuming that there is some inherent connection between > VALIDITY and USEFULNESS. Yes, a verbal contract is valid - once you > can prove what was agreed to. And "prove" means "convince a court". > The burden of finding a way to convince the court is entirely up to > you. Umm -- presumably you're talking about *oral* contracts and their differences from *written* ones. Pretty much all contracts, both written and oral, are verbal (composed of words). Bob Goudreau +1 919 248 6231 Data General Corporation ...!mcnc!rti!xyzzy!goudreau 62 Alexander Drive goudreau@dg-rtp.dg.com Research Triangle Park, NC 27709, USA ------------------------------ From: Carol Springs Subject: Re: Sprint Plus Date: 25 Feb 90 19:30:25 GMT Organization: DRI/McGraw-Hill, Lexington, MA In article <4305@accuvax.nwu.edu> eli@pws.bull.com (Steve Elias) writes: >Is everyone talking about the same thing with regard to Sprint Plus? >I'm not aware of any rebates or credits which are available under the >program. Apparently the $25 rebate was a one-shot available to people who subscribed last year. Someone also mentioned the separate program of frequent-caller points that Sprint just started offering. This program has the unfortunate name "Callers' Plus." >Sprint Plus gives the subscriber a minimum bill of $8.00 per month, >but it gives them nighttime rates starting at 5PM, skipping evening >rates completely. It's a good deal for long distance fiends who don't >like to call people after 11PM on weeknights... I just signed up for >it this week. Me too. I'd seen Sprint Plus referred to occasionally in fine-print sections of Sprint's literature, but I never knew what the program was until reading about it in this group. And this confuses me. I read Sprint's little promotional brochures that come with the bill each month. Sprint Plus sounds like an opportunity I'd've jumped at if only I'd seen it advertised. Exactly when was the program instituted? Any other Sprint subscribers out there, who scan their mailings reasonably carefully, who nevertheless did *not know* about Sprint Plus until recently? Carol Springs carols@drilex.dri.mgh.com ------------------------------ Subject: Re: CPID/ANI Developments Date: Sun, 25 Feb 90 20:11:04 EST From: "John R. Levine" > Appended is a memo sent to all members of the STC by Vic Toth, who > is the STC counsel for regulatory affairs. So what is the STC, anyway? Although this piece was quite coherent and reasonable, it did have a strong internal assumption that universal unblockable CPID is a good idea. I also have to wonder at his suggestions, first that the way to make opposition to CPID go away is public education campaigns to tell people that every time they make a call, the recipient might receive the calling number, and second that CPID blocking be offered only to existing subscribers, not to new or changed ones, as though people who move somehow have fewer privacy rights than people who don't. Sheesh. Regards, John Levine, johnl@esegue.segue.boston.ma.us, {spdcc|ima|lotus}!esegue!johnl ------------------------------ From: Robert Gutierrez Subject: Re: More 800, 900 Curiosities Date: 26 Feb 90 07:12:57 GMT Reply-To: Robert Gutierrez Organization: NASA ARC c186aj@cory.berkeley.edu (Steve Forrette) writes: > >You got timed out while the local MCI switch was polling the 2 VAX's > >they use for 800 number lookup. > >And then there was this one time when both VAX's died for 45 minutes.... > If it is true that just 2 VAXes (or the leased lines going to them) going > down can bring down the entire MCI 800 system, perhaps AT&T's promise of > 1 hour service restoration for downed 800 lines isn't all that half-baked... In another article, Rick Wessman correctly points out that these computers are CCI Power 6/32-FT's. These are fault-tolerant computers, and as such, they are less prone to 'go down'. But, as was proved in AT&T's fiasco, just because the computer has double back-ups, that doesn't mean the code loaded into them can't go bad. If I remember correctly, that was the problem in MCI's 45 minute 'outage'. MCI, almost one year ago, upgraded the DAP's ("Data Access Point") to do number-table updates every 15 minutes instead of every night, so that emergency rerouting could be offered to their customers. If a customer is having a local problem, and has a pre-defined emergency plan submitted, he or she can call MCI and give a password, and can have that emergency plan implemented within 15 minutes (the next update to the DAP's). The software to do this was apparently very tricky, since updates and lookups were being done almost the same time now. Also, the software upgrade was to do call-restriction down to the NPA-NXX level, as opposed to just the State level before that. Also, it was the beta test of calling-number delivery. As with the switches, the hardware may be excellent, but the software sometimes can have problems....especially if you have 1E+32 patches to it..... Robert Gutierrez NASA Science Internet Network Operations Moffett Feild, California. "You know, all of my patients had one thing in common...... ....They all hated the phone company." James Coburn, "The Presidents Analyst". ------------------------------ Reply-To: John Higdon Subject: Re: Speaking of Security Codes Date: 26 Feb 90 19:33:03 PST (Mon) From: John Higdon John G Dobnick writes: > My question to you good folks on this list is: Can remote access be > totally supressed on this beastie? I see no way to do so. If this > _is_ mentioned in the manual, it isn't obvious to me. There is no way, short of tampering with the unit's firmware, to defeat the remote feature. This is a major shortcoming with this otherwise good product. The only suggestion would be to change the code daily :-) John Higdon | P. O. Box 7648 | +1 408 723 1395 john@bovine.ati.com | San Jose, CA 95150 | M o o ! ------------------------------ From: Michael Scott Baldwin Subject: Caller*ID to RS-232 Date: 26 Feb 90 14:40:25 GMT Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories Does anyone know where to get a box that converts the Caller*ID bytes to RS-232? There is/was something called "Clyde" by Software Studios in Virginia, but the person seems to have curtailed his efforts, and I'm not sure any Clydes were actually made and shipped. Apparently, at some consumer electronics show earlier this year (in Las Vegas?) there were some of these things displayed. Does anybody have names of companies or other contacts? I'm not interested in the really complicated, all-in-one boxes for $300 or so. Clyde was $60, I think. Where would these companies advertise, anyway? michael.scott.baldwin@att.com (bell laboratories) ------------------------------ Subject: Bargain Canadian Telephone Rates? From: Fred Fierling Date: 26 Feb 90 19:32:45 GMT Organization: Microplex Systems Ltd Included with our latest telephone bill is a pamphlet that has an article titled "B.C. Residents get bargain rates compared to U.S.". I was astonished to see this and eagerly read the article. Unfortunately there is nothing in the article to back up their claim. What they do say is that overall phone rates in the U.S. have increased by 17 per cent from 1984 to 1988 while B.C. Tel rates *decreased* by 15 per cent in the same period. This doesn't prove we are getting a bargain now, it might mean that we where paying far too much in 1984. What follows are some charges for phone service here in Vancouver. Could someone post similar figures for equivalent service in a U.S. west coast city (like Seattle) so that I can decide for myself if I'm getting a bargain? Business individual access line (w/ touch tone) CDN$ 50.80 /month Residence individual access line (w/ touch tone) 14.90 /month Direct Dial long distance rates: Vancouver (West Coast) to Halifax (East Coast) 0.59 /min Vancouver (West Coast) to New York (East Coast) 0.63 /min Note: - rates taken from January and February 1990 bills - figures are in Canadian dollars, CDN $1.00 = US $0.83 - combined Federal and Provincial taxes of 17.66% *not* included. Fred Fierling uunet!van-bc!mplex!fff Tel: 604 875-1461 Fax: 604 875-9029 Microplex Systems Ltd 265 East 1st Avenue Vancouver, BC V5T 1A7, Canada ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Feb 90 20:35:11 est From: Thomas Lapp Subject: Mother's Source Code = ?? In the Digest on Monday (V10n127), you write: > We're told by a deep-throat type that AT&T is on the war path about > their software, and that 3b2 people in particular are targeted for > 'counseling' and whatever corrective action is deemed necessary by > 'the authorities'. > [...] > When 'the authorities' come a-calling, with warrant in hand, and their > credentials in order, they start looking for Mother's source code; 3b2 > stuff and the like, and they keep looking until they find it. Exactly what are we talking about here, when one says "source code". I've worked on a 3B2-300 in grad school, and there was a lot of AT&T copyrighted stuff which came with the system. Mostly shell scripts and the like, but AT&T nonetheless. Does this mean that authorities are looking for 3B2 systems with AT&T Unix running on them? That seems a bit outlandish to me. ("sorry son, that PC Compatible has MS-DOS on it. I'm going to have to take it away from you"). I've been looking at UUCP maps lately to find out how many systems list MS-DOS as the operating system, but have run across a lot of 3B2 systems listed as home machines. That's a pretty big population to threaten. Or am I missing something here. Might we be talking about things like Unix source code in 'C' for utilities, etc. rather than just run-time images? That would seem more likely, but I thought AT&T also licenses that as well ('course if it were on your machine and you didn't have a license agreement with AT&T for it....) - tom internet : mvac23!thomas@udel.edu or thomas%mvac23@udel.edu uucp : {ucbvax,mcvax,psuvax1,uunet}!udel!mvac23!thomas Europe Bitnet: THOMAS1@GRATHUN1 Location: Newark, DE, USA Quote : Virtual Address eXtension. Is that like a 9-digit zip code? [Moderator's Note: We are discussing people who do not have license agreements; people who, instead of procurring the software in the legitimate way have obtained it illicitly over the years. I started to say 'in the normal way' above; then I realized that to some people at AT&T, 'normal' these days = 'rip us off'. Let's face it: pirated software, AT&T's or otherwise, has been a scandal for years. I guess AT&T finally got fed-up with it. Coincidentally, I got a message tonight in email from someone saying Mike Andrews wants to talk to me on the phone, to 'clear up some misunderstandings'....I'll try to catch up with him Tuesday or Wednesday, and report it here ASAP afterward. A few other personal replies have come in on this topic also; one told me I had unmitigated nerve; two others asking me why I did not tell 'the complete story'..... meanwhile, Deep-Throat's original correspondence remains in my files should someone figure they can put me in the trick-bag somehow. PT] ------------------------------ End of TELECOM Digest V10 #129 ******************************   Received: from [129.105.5.103] by mintaka.lcs.mit.edu id aa06385; 28 Feb 90 12:09 EST Received: from mailinglists.eecs.nwu.edu by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id aa21454; 28 Feb 90 2:06 CST Received: from mailinglists.eecs.nwu.edu by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id aa05926; 28 Feb 90 0:58 CST Date: Wed, 28 Feb 90 0:39:21 CST From: TELECOM Moderator [To]: telecom@eecs.nwu.edu Subject: TELECOM Digest V10 #130 BCC: Message-ID: <9002280039.ab31646@delta.eecs.nwu.edu> TELECOM Digest Wed, 28 Feb 90 00:38:56 CST Volume 10 : Issue 130 Today's Topics: Moderator: Patrick Townson News From 919 (Gregory G. Woodbury) Telecom Canada (was Re: Envoy 100) (Paul Durham) Portable Office Phones (Leonard P. Levine) A Few ISDN Questions (Lynn Gale) WD-40 Sprint FONCARD (Andy Malis) Is 990 a Special 'Exchange' in Area Code 508? (Henry Mensch) Re: Does 976 Know Who You Are? (Keith Henson) Re: Two CLASS Calling Services Questions (David Lewis) Sprint's Direct Marketing Tactics (John Higdon) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Gregory G. Woodbury" Subject: News From 919 Organization: Wolves Den UNIX BBS Date: Tue, 27 Feb 90 06:16:27 GMT Greetings from the 919 GTE satrapy! Here is a submission with a variety of notes about what's happening in the Durham and North Carolina area (telecom related). EXPANSION OF NUMBERING PLAN IN 919 All "long distance" calling in 919 will require access+10 digits starting sometime in March, 1990. The consumers have lots of lead time on this one! 2 weeks ago, a few articles appeared in a few newspapers around the state revealing that the phone companies are running out of exchange numbers in the 919 area code, and soon we will have to start dialing all non-local calls with the full 10 digits. The selected start date for this new dialing scheme is at midnight following Friday, March 2nd, 1990. Southern Bell is coordinating the cutover with all 919 carriers. NC PUC CATCHES SBT IN LETTER CAMPAIGN The NC Public Utilities Commission is considering rules for the offering of CPID/ANI in the state. Several consumer advocacy and privacy watchdogs have intervened in the case to prevent the introduction of the service without some form of protection for certain classes of businesses and individuals. SBT management sent a memorandum to its employees encouraging them to send letters supporting CPID/ANI to the PUC and informing the employees doing so that they should not reveal that they are SBT employees and providing several example letters. The scheme was discovered by PUC staff noticing that they were getting a lot of identical letters mentioning the same business and situation (i.e. a pizza delivery service wanting ANI to help eliminate prank pizza orders). The number of letters received with this situation was more than double the number of pizza delivery services operating in the areas were the persons writing letters were located. PUC Investigators unearthed copies of the SBT memo and are reviewing all letters received for more duplicity. ORANGE COUNTY AND TOWNS INVESTIGATE MUNICIPAL BBS Inspired by the Santa Monica (California) PEN municipal BBS, a group of citizens in Orange County (Chapel Hill/Carrboro and Hillsboro are the major municipalities) have approached the county and municipal governments for funding and equipment to establish a similar system for the county and municipalities. Access to the system will be dial-up from home computers and a variety of terminals in public locations. Functions included feature email, community info databases and netnews-like discussion forums. The software for the project is being developed locally by the group. DUKE UNIVERSITY TO INSTALL FIRST DEPARTMENTAL ISDN SITUATION Duke University, featured as an ISDN test site in several AT&T switch ads in various publications is planning to completely rewire on of the departmental buildings on campus with full ISDN capable equipment in the spring of 1990. The Sociology department (the largest consumer of university computing resources on campus - outside of CS [which has their own equipment]) has been in desperate need of more lines in its building for several years, but there is no space in the existing plant to add more traditional circuits. To solve the problem, the Duke Telecom division has announced its plans to implement full ISDN in the department. Gregory G. Woodbury Sysop/owner Wolves Den UNIX BBS, Durham NC UUCP: ...dukcds!wolves!ggw ...dukeac!wolves!ggw [use the maps!] Domain: ggw@cds.duke.edu ggw@ac.duke.edu ggw%wolves@ac.duke.edu Phone: +1 919 493 1998 (Home) +1 919 684 6126 (Work) [The line eater is a boojum snark! ] ------------------------------ From: Paul Durham Subject: Telecom Canada (was Re: Envoy 100) Date: 27 Feb 90 20:44:26 GMT Reply-To: Paul Durham Organization: Microtel Pacific Research Ltd., Burnaby, B.C., Canada In article <4366@accuvax.nwu.edu> sl@van-bc.UUCP (Stuart Lynne) writes: >In article <4300@accuvax.nwu.edu> "Robert P. Warnock" edu> writes: >>It's just a commercial e-mail service. Happens to be run (indirectly) >>by the Canadian government. Fees are charged for connect time, >Very indirectly. It's run by a company called Telecom Canada. Which in >turn is owned by the government. The Canadian Telco's are involved as >well. >Telecom Canada is apparantly being put on the block by the government >(as of last Tuesday's federal budget). OK folks, let's set this one straight. I quote from a Telecom Canada brochure: "Telecom Canada is composed of Canada's major telecommunications companies. Together, these companies provide a fully-integrated voice, data, and image network". I.E., the long distance system, Datapac (X.25), Envoy 100, and other such services. It was called the Trans-Canada Telephone System up to a few years ago. They're being a bit subjective with the "major" label. In fact the members are simply Canada's telephone companies. They are not interested in admitting interlopers such as CNCP or the cable companies. Apart from the network services, Telecom Canada's other function is to produce propaganda and intervene legally for the telephone companies (fighting alternate long distance carriers, for example). By far the largest member of Telecom Canada is Bell Canada (Ontario and Quebec) which is bigger than all the others put together. _Telesat_ Canada (which provides satellite services) is the one that is owned by the gov't. It's a member of Telecom Canada, to add to the confusion. P. Durham ------------------------------ From: Leonard P Levine Subject: Portable Office Phones Date: 27 Feb 90 21:16:09 GMT Reply-To: len@csd4.csd.uwm.edu ATT is currently marketing a portable office phone that connects with their Merlin system. Does anyone know if there are ANY security features available with that phone? It seems to me that listening for messages on home phones is just a dumb game, but listening in for messages on a busy office phone might well be considered a worthwhile job to some. + - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - + | Leonard P. Levine e-mail len@evax.cs.uwm.edu | | Professor, Computer Science Office (414) 229-5170 | | University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee Home (414) 962-4719 | | Milwaukee, WI 53201 U.S.A. FAX (414) 229-6958 | + - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - + ------------------------------ From: Lynn Gale Subject: A Few ISDN Questions Date: 28 Feb 90 01:05:06 GMT Reply-To: Lynn Gale Organization: Center for Advanced Study in the Behavioral Sciences Is it known at this point in time what medium ISDN will run on? In particular, what number of wire pairs are necessary and do they need to be shielded or unshielded? (Thinking about wiring decisions with the future in mind...) If it takes, say, 4 pairs, what function(s) do each of the pairs perform? Will ISDN incorporate Fax functions? RS-232? What else besides voice? Thanks in advance. Lynn casbs@csli.stanford.edu x3.a37@stanford.bitnet ------------------------------ Subject: WD-40 Sprint FONCARD Date: Tue, 27 Feb 90 11:25:28 -0500 From: Andy Malis I just got my WD-40 Sprint FONCARD in the mail. It has a random 14-digit number on the card, rather than my home phone number (ever hear of area code 673?). There was no mention of either WD-40 or the free 60 minutes in the enclosed literature. I did receive a folding "POCKET GUIDE", and, interestingly, "FONCARD INFORMATION FOR BUSINESS CUSTOMERS", which was written to be distributed with employee FONCARDs. I checked my home phone, and it has not been switched to Sprint. Andy [Moderator's Note: Mine arrive Monday also. They sent me two cards, with the same 'information for business customers' literature. The two cards had numbers not even closely resembling each other, and only on one of the two were the first three digits twenty plus my area code (728). And the promised free hour of calling? She told me it would come in the form of a credit of a few dollars on my *third* bill..... how's that for somewhat deceptive marketing. And with a seventy-five cent surcharge per call, this card is going to be sort of expensive. PT] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Feb 90 19:56:06 -0500 From: Henry Mensch Subject: Is 990 a Special 'Exchange' in Area Code 508? Inquiring minds are curious. # Henry Mensch / / E40-379 MIT, Cambridge, MA # / / ------------------------------ From: ames!ames!claris!portal!cup.portal.com!hkhenson@uunet.uu.net Subject: Re: Does 976 Know Who You Are? Date: Tue, 27-Feb-90 00:10:28 PST John Higdon notes "There is no Caller-ID available in California." I know that 911 calls read out the address of the calling location, is this a different service? This feature is a pain in the neck sometimes. You report a domestic violence case, and the cops beat on *your* door first, and then wonder over to the disturbance, making it clear who called them. After one dose of this, I will wait till the blood is runing out the door before I call them directly again. I had a friend across town call in the last one, but it certainly delayed things to have to do it that way. Keith Henson ------------------------------ From: David Lewis Subject: Re: Two CLASS Calling Services Questions Date: 26 Feb 90 15:09:24 GMT Organization: Bellcore, Livingston, NJ In article <4345@accuvax.nwu.edu>, judice@sulaco.enet.dec.com (Lou Judice @KYO DTN 323-4103) writes: > How exactly does the Caller*ID box behave when calls are received from > outside the area code and/or exchanges that do not transmit the ANI > information? Lessee... a little background. For the uninitiated, the pertinent geographic division is a LATA, a Local Access and Transport Area. Within LATAs, local exchange carriers (LECs) are permitted to carry and switch calls; across LATA boundaries (with some minor exceptions), calls must be routed through an interexchange carrier (IC). Therefore, the signaling information, which includes the calling party number used by the CLASS features, must also be routed through an IC for inter-LATA calls. Currently, there is no implemented common channel signaling interconnection between LECs and ICs (although I just read of a trial down in SWBT/BellSouth lands). Therefore, any interLATA call will not have available the calling party number, and the box displays a code which means "calling party number unavailable". > Eventually, will Caller*ID work across area codes??? Again, the pertinent area is really "across LATAs", and the answer is "yes, eventually". Technical requirements and possibly standards for common channel signaling interconnection need to be worked out, and a whole slew of business arrangements have to be negotiated. > For those states with per-call Caller*ID blocking, is the Caller*ID > box display disabled or is the ANI not transmitted at all? Ie., is > Call*Trace and Return*Call disabled as well??? [If not, then it would > seem easy to get the caller's # by returning their call, and checking > the number on your next bill.] As far as I know, the blocking feature (as the moderator stated) sets a privacy indicator in the common channel signaling message. The calling party number is still sent. If the terminating end office sees the privacy indicator sent, it doesn't send the calling party number to the CPE. It does, however, still have the number, and call trace and call return should work. Yes, you could return the call and note the number on your next bill, provided it's an itemized call and not an unlimited usage call or a message unit call. > [Moderator's Note: ... And the word we are getting from Illinois Bell > is that (once CLASS is implemented later this year) if the number is > otherwise unavailable then attempts to 'return call' will fail.] If the calling party number is not sent to the terminating end office, yes (as seems obvious), you won't be able to use "return call" or "call trace". If the calling party number is sent, but the privacy indication is set, I believe you can still return and trace calls, but I'm not certain. David G Lewis ...!bellcore!nvuxr!deej (@ Bellcore Navesink Research & Engineering Center) "If this is paradise, I wish I had a lawnmower." ------------------------------ Subject: Sprint's Direct Marketing Tactics Reply-To: John Higdon Organization: Green Hills and Cows Date: 27 Feb 90 21:30:15 PST (Tue) From: John Higdon While over at my little office picking up some things, the phone rang. The caller asked to speak to the "business owner". I said, "You got him." It was a Sprint salesman who wanted to make sure I knew how much I could save by using Sprint. I told him that my office long distance bill was so small that it would not make any difference. Then he launched into a major diatribe about how "the reason AT&T failed during the earthquake was due to their antiquated network." Oh, did AT&T fail during the quake? I was unaware of that. I told him that I knew that AT&T was doing considerable network management to assure outgoing calling capability, but I was unaware that they had "failed". He told me that, no, indeed, Sprint did a much better job at handling traffic than AT&T did during the emergency. Then he asked me if I would rather have my business able to make calls during the next emergency. At this point I thanked him for the call and assured him that during the next quake I would be sure to dial "10333". Then I hung up! John Higdon | P. O. Box 7648 | +1 408 723 1395 john@zygot.ati.com | San Jose, CA 95150 | M o o ! ------------------------------ End of TELECOM Digest V10 #130 ******************************   Received: from delta.eecs.nwu.edu by mintaka.lcs.mit.edu id aa06634; 28 Feb 90 12:17 EST Received: from mailinglists.eecs.nwu.edu by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id aa06347; 28 Feb 90 3:10 CST Received: from mailinglists.eecs.nwu.edu by delta.eecs.nwu.edu id ab21454; 28 Feb 90 2:06 CST Date: Wed, 28 Feb 90 1:32:21 CST From: TELECOM Moderator [To]: telecom@eecs.nwu.edu Subject: TELECOM Digest V10 #131 BCC: Message-ID: <9002280132.ab16937@delta.eecs.nwu.edu> TELECOM Digest Wed, 28 Feb 90 01:31:47 CST Volume 10 : Issue 131 Today's Topics: Moderator: Patrick Townson Rich Andrews, Jolnet, Netsys, Len, Charlie, attctc, etc (TELECOM Moderator) Re: AT&T Sourcecode: Poison! (Jonathan Krueger) Re: AT&T Sourcecode: Poison! (Bill Huttig) Re: Jolnet's Troubles (Kevin Henson) Re: Special: CPID/ANI Developments (Jeremy Grodberg) Re: Tone Block (Allen Hom) Re: Centrex and 9xxx Numbers (Donald L. Ritchey) Re: Local Calls Between NJ, NY State (George L. Sicherman) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 28 Feb 90 0:49:17 CST From: TELECOM Moderator Subject: Rich Andrews, Jolnet, Netsys, Len, Charlie, attctc, etc Tuesday evening, David Tamkin and I had a chance to interview Rich Andrews, the proprietor of Jolnet at some length. He had several things of interest to tell us, including some additional background on his role in the investigation now going on. Before printing a summary of that interview in the Digest, I told Rich I would make further inquiries, and clarify a couple more points with him, probably sometime Wednesday. If this has been completed in time, an article will appear in the Digest on Thursday; else Friday morning. In the meantime, here today are a few other messages received in recent mail. Patrick Townson ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Feb 90 09:05:23 -0500 From: Jon Subject: Re: AT&T Sourcecode: Poison! In comp.dcom.telecom you write: >When 'the authorities' come a-calling, with warrant in hand, and their >credentials in order, they start looking for Mother's source code; 3b2 >stuff and the like, and they keep looking until they find it. I've always said that possession (use, sale, distribution) of AT&T software should be a crime. Now it appears that someone agrees with me, but it's a bit of a surprise that it's AT&T itself. Hmmm, maybe AT&T knows something we don't? Well, here's to liberating Mach, and the fine work from the FSF. The time is coming when the arriving AT&T folks will be laughed at, and invited to look for stolen copies of the periodic table too. You know, the one that's trademark AT&T, copyright Apple, patent IBM? AT&T certainly has a right to protect its interests. But the passion it's showing in defense of its rights to yesterday's software would be better directed toward developing the software that will sell tomorrow. Of course, given the ratio of programmers to lawyers in the boardroom, I realize that this will be hard to explain to management. Jonathan Krueger jkrueger@dtic.dla.mil uunet!dgis!jkrueger The Philip Morris Companies, Inc: without question the strongest and best argument for an anti-flag-waving amendment. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Feb 90 15:52:22 EST From: Bill Huttig Subject: Re: AT&T Sourcecode: Poison! Organization: Florida Institute of Technology, ACS, Melbourne, FL I thought killer was already closed down for the AT&T source code thing a couple years back. When it came back online it became attcdc. Bill [Moderator's Note: You thought correctly, however it is down again, as of a few days ago. Wondering why? Maybe I will have some answers, in the form of comments by Mike Andrews in a day or so. PT] ------------------------------ From: ames!ames!claris!portal!cup.portal.com!hkhenson@uunet.uu.net Subject: Re: Jolnet's Troubles Date: Tue, 27-Feb-90 00:33:51 PST From what I have noted with respect to Jolnet, there was a serious crime committed there -- by the FBI. If they busted a system with email on it, the Electronic Communication Privacy Act comes into play. Everyone who had email dated less than 180 days old on the system is entitled to sue each of the people involve in the seizure for at least $1000 plus legal fees and court cost. Unless, of course, the FBI did it by the book, and got warrants to interfere with the e