Date: 13 Dec 2000 06:15:18 -0500 From: owner-telecom-digest@telecom-digest.org (Telecom Digest) To: telecom-digest@telecom-digest.org Subject: Telecom Digest V2000 #151 Telecom Digest Wednesday, December 13 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 151 In this issue: Staples Pulling the Zero, and higher digits Re: Early NPA Assignments [was Pulling the Zero] Re: Re; Pulling the Zero et al Re: AT&T still charging some people for leasing equipment Re: touchtone surcharge, was: Re: Early NPA Assignments [was Pulling Digit absorbtion Re: AT&T still charging some people for leasing equipment Access Tandem Message Mysteriously in Voice Mailbox - How? new report; Amnesty Int'l on being blocked by censorware DSL related info Re: Message Mysteriously in Voice Mailbox - How? Re: AT&T still charging some people for leasing equipment Re: Pulling the Zero, and higher digits Re: touchtone surcharge, was: Re: Early NPA Assignments [was Pulling Re: AT&T still charging some people for leasing equipment Re: AT&T still charging some people for leasing equipment ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 12 Dec 2000 08:37:44 -0500 From: "Alex Markovich" Subject: Staples Staples Communications is a nationwide advanced integrator of communications solutions. We can answer your company's complete telecommunications needs with the most progressive solutions on the market today. We offer a full portfolio of business communications systems and software, voice, data and network solutions. By partnering with Staples Communications you are putting the strength of multiple vendors to work for you, delivered on a single invoice. We offer an unmatched service and support network with the best-trained professionals in the business. Our national service center is open 24-7-365 to serve you, with service offices across the country for additional local support. With Staples Communications, you have just one number to call for sales, service and support of all of your telecommunications requirements. Our specialists act as consultants, getting to know your company's current and future needs and working with you to design the strongest, most cost-effective solution. Alex Markovich Staples Communications 312-372-2525 - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 12 Dec 2000 09:11:49 -0500 From: Joel B Levin Subject: Pulling the Zero, and higher digits In <3a35aad7$0$1504$53a6afc1@news.erinet.com>, } kamlet@infinet.com (Art Kamlet) wrote: }In article , }Wes Leatherock wrote: }> The digit "1" is the lowest number on a rotary dial, }>and "0" is the highest. } }On a list of area codes, 201 is the lowest numbered code. } }201 < 202 < 203 ..... < 212 < 213 .... } }I'm not talking about fewest pulses, but just 201 as a number. In some old list of area codes or prefixes I once saw (from an internal Telco document) the numbers were sorted in order such that "0" came after "9", not before "1". In the world of dialed numbers, the digits ran in order from 1 to "0" (which was treated as 10, though a single digit). This reminds me of something that I experimented with once, but so long ago that I don't remember when or where. Armed with the realization that "0" really meant a digit of value 10 and with some practice at "dialing" with the switch hook, I attempted to see what would happen if one "dialed" a digit with value of 11 or more. My memory tells me that a couple of times I got some weird internal telco facility to answer, but most values of higher digits did nothing on their own. So I wonder: were there things that were done that used longer pulls than "0"? /JBL - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 12 Dec 2000 09:59:14 -0500 From: davidesan@my-deja.com Subject: Re: Early NPA Assignments [was Pulling the Zero] In article , Wes Leatherock wrote: > > The system had broken down long before 1995. By the early 1950s > a second area code (918) had been added in Oklahoma, which had been > designated as a single area code state and so was assigned 405 at > the inception of area codes. There were many similar examples > around the country in the 1950s. Actually, the system broke down before it even started. New Jersey was supposed to have just 1 NPA -- 201. When the service was rolled out, New Jersey had 2 area codes: 201 and 609. - -- David Esan InformationView Solutions david.esan@informationview.com Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 12 Dec 2000 10:11:39 -0500 From: Wes Leatherock Subject: Re: Re; Pulling the Zero et al On 11 Dec 2000 21:12:27 -0500 Neal McLain wrote: > A non-made-up example: NOrmandy in Ann Arbor, Michigan. > > Before NOrmandy was introduced (about 1953), Ann Arbor > had five-digit numbers in four ranges: > > 2-0000 - 2-9999 > 3-0000 - 3-9999 except for 375 and 397. > 5-0000 - 5-9999 > 8-6000 - 8-9999 (note the 6) > > The exceptions in the 3-XXXX range accessed tie lines > to neighboring exchanges: > > 375 ("3PL") reached Plymouth > 397 ("3YP") reached Ypsilanti > > (There may have been more of these tie lines, but > memory fails me at this point.) > > The initial "8" was indeed curious: > > 8 followed by 6, 7, 8, or 9 led to a valid five- > digit number in the 8-6000 - 8-9999 range. > > 8 followed by any other digit was ingnored. Thus, > one could dial 80 and get the opeator, or 83-1511 > and reach 3-1511 (the University's PBX). > > When NOrmandy was introduced, a dummy 6 was stuck in > front of everything. Thus, 3-1511 became > NOrmandy 3-1511 (and eventually, 663-1511). (Remainder of interesting post about digit-absorbing selectors in step-by-step offices snipped.) When I moved back to Oklahoma City about 1956 or 1957, the number assigned to me was VIctor 3-6056. Oklahoma City was a multi-office city, and from many offices the second digit ("I", actually "4") was absorbed. For several weeks (until we got the Telco to change our number) we were awakened in the wee small hours several times a week by someone, usually, it seemed, by a person who had been having a few beverages and expected to be answered by a machine, not a human being. The "time" number was REgent 6-0561. If you misdialed the first digit "7" as "8" from many offices, you got V ("8") 3-6056, which of course was our number because the I ("4") was unnecessary from some offices and would have been absorbed if it had been dialed. Note "from some offices." This was a real complication in multi-office step cities because it became difficult to design digit absorbing patterns and tandem switching so that you could use the same directory number to call from any office. Pacific Telephone developed "senders" to allow translations in their vast multi-office step complex in Los Angeles and environs, since Bell Labs and Western Electric had not really perceived a need for addressing this problem, step offices, in their view, being only for small towns and originally acquired by Bell operating companies from Automatic Electric or other independent suppliers. In Houston Southwestern Bell addressed the problem by making some local calls "dial Operator," not being able to devise numbering and trunking arrangements that would fit every case. With the addition of pulse signalling to crossbar offices (not originally provided for), there was finally a way to address this question in predominantly step areas without having to replace every office. Wes Leatherock wleath@sandbox.dynip.com - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 12 Dec 2000 10:14:59 -0500 From: Wes Leatherock Subject: Re: AT&T still charging some people for leasing equipment On 12 Dec 2000 04:44:52 -0500 David Lind wrote: > Just in the last 6 months or so Verizon was sued in the South Bay CA, for > still charging customers for old telephone equipment. We're talking an area > near Silicon Valley, not some backwater. This practice was a legacy from GTE, > and Verizon acquired those customers accounts. IIRC, it was a class action > law suit. > > Don't know the staus of the case, but if this can happen in California, with > some very tight telecom regulation, it can happen anywhere. -- David GTE was not prohbited from selling or leasing phones to its customers, as the RBOCs were. Wes Leatherock wleath@sandbox.dynip.com - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 12 Dec 2000 10:24:17 -0500 From: Barry Margolin Subject: Re: touchtone surcharge, was: Re: Early NPA Assignments [was Pulling In article , John McHarry wrote: >On 11 Dec 2000 13:39:18 -0500, dannyb@panix.com (danny burstein) >wrote: > >>In <912ocs$7id$1@panix3.panix.com> roy@panix.com (Roy Smith) writes: >>... >>Alas, keep in mind that removal of the surcharge tends to lead to a >>corresponding general rate increase. > >Despite the fact, at least for a DMS, that it takes more switch >resource to support dialpulse customers. That's irrelevant. The simple fact is that the surcharge is factored into the telco's budget. If you drop it, something else has to increase to make up for the revenue lost. They could presumably replace it with a dialpulse surcharge, but since there are probably far fewer customers with pulse phones than tone phones, the surcharge would have to be enormous in order for the change to be revenue-neutral. I don't really mind the touchtone surcharge. You're not paying for cost, you're paying for the value of the service, and touchtone is a nice feature. - -- Barry Margolin, barmar@genuity.net Genuity, Burlington, MA *** DON'T SEND TECHNICAL QUESTIONS DIRECTLY TO ME, post them to newsgroups. Please DON'T copy followups to me -- I'll assume it wasn't posted to the group. - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 12 Dec 2000 11:04:52 -0500 From: jsw@ivgate.omahug.org Subject: Digit absorbtion In TV V2000 #147, Dean Forrest Wright writes: [bobbitt] >But the dummy initial 6 did absolutely nothing when >dialed from another NOrmandy number! One could, for >example, dial: > 3-1511 and reach the University PBX. > 666666663-1511 and reach the University PBX. > 666666666666666666666666660 and reach the operator. >And, of course, the initial 8 continued to do nothing >if the following digit wasn't 6, 7, 8, or 9. So, one Sounds what we used to call 'digit absorbing', which was quite common on SxS switches. Certain (prepended) digits simply caused the unit to return to normal, thus 'swallowing' the absorbed digit(s). Yes, you could dial an infinite number of absorbed digits, resulting in a wide variety of stupid.phone.tricks. ;-) True 7-digit dialing on SxS required a huge number of selectors, and obsorbing 1-2 digits when not necessary was a considerable saving in equipment cost, maintenance, etc. I remember many cases where calls could be made with either 5 or 7 digits due to this process, and yes, everybody knew this, even though I never remember seeing it in the front of any phone book. Good day JSW - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 12 Dec 2000 12:08:32 -0500 From: Joseph Singer Subject: Re: AT&T still charging some people for leasing equipment 11 Dec 2000 19:00:50 -0500 "Marshall A. Levin" wrote: >I just recently learned that AT&T has been charging my grandparents a >monthly fee, admittedly a rather small one, for leasing some really old >rotary-dial phones. I think it has been going on for over 20 years. The >charge was very small, and they never were quite sure what it was, but they >kept paying it when it showed up on their phone bill. I think we figured >out they'd paid over $2000 to lease these rotary phones, many times more >than the actual cost of the equipment. > >My dad tried to help them sort this mess out and called AT&T to complain. >His argument was that AT&T was being unethical in continuing to charge >people to lease such old equipment and that most of the people who were >still paying for it were probably elderly people who didn't understand what >they were being charged for and that if they understood the charges would >most likely elect to discontinue leasing the equipment (who doesn't OWN a >phone these days?). AT&T's response was that they don't have any way of >knowing how old the subscriber is and can't just guess as to whether the >subscriber is confused or really wants to continue leasing the equipment. >Their argument is that if someone doesn't understand their bill they should >call and find out what they're being charged for and AT&T would be happy to >explain the charges. They have a point, but I suspect this goes on a lot. > >Anyway, we got AT&T to stop charging them, issue a $100 refund and convinced >them to waive the requirement that the leased equipment, which was probably >lost years ago, be returned. I think AT&T was *more* than generous to give a $100 credit and discontinue charging for this. Just because someone forgets what they're paying for isn't an excuse. This charge was nothing new if they'd been paying it for years. If there was any doubt what it was a simple call to AT&T would have cleared that up. If they've been paying "thousands" of dollars in rental fees that's only because they didn't investigate what they'd be paying for. You can buy the equivalent phone for $35 or so brand new or mostly these days you can pick up the original equipment for $5 at a garage sale. Ignorance is no defense. - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joseph Singer Seattle, Washington USA [ICQ pgr] +1 206 405 2052 [voice mail] +1 206 493 0706 [FAX] - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 12 Dec 2000 14:01:17 -0500 From: Phil Smiley Subject: Access Tandem What constitutes an Access Tandem. What (aside from the switching equipment) is required? Thank You, Smiley - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 12 Dec 2000 16:23:03 -0500 From: "Pete Ritter" Subject: Message Mysteriously in Voice Mailbox - How? Can anyone offer ideas on how this happened? My wife received a message in her Sprint PCS voice mailbox. It was her father saying "OK. Your English no entiendo nada." ("I don't understand your English"). My wife's parents live in Mexico and speak virtually no English. When we asked him about this message, he said that he never left such a message but that he did receive a call from a woman speaking English and that's what he said to her. Does anyone have any idea how the message could have appeared in her VMbox? Other possibly relevant information is: The mailbox says that the call (that left the message) was from 972 818 xxxx which I believe means Grapevine, TX. We have tried calling this number but get no answer. We've tried reverse lookups on the 'net without success. My wife uses a cut-rate LD carrier with a 972 local access number to call her parents, sometimes from her PCS phone, so the carrier has an association between her parent's TN and her TN in their database (it's a stretch, but could a bug in their software have caused this if the caller was calling through that carrier? But how did it get into her Sprint PCS VMbox?). Her phone's call records show that she had made a few calls earlier the day of the mysterious message but none close to the time of the message according to the VMbox and none that day to the LD carrier. Can anyone tell (from the LERG maybe) what carrier owns 972 818? Also, can anyone lookup for me the mysterious TN (off the newsgroup)? Any ideas and help are appreciated. Thanks. - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 12 Dec 2000 17:22:59 -0500 From: Bennett Haselton Subject: new report; Amnesty Int'l on being blocked by censorware [sent to journalists on Peacefire's press contacts list] Peacefire's latest report was released this morning: http://www.peacefire.org/amnesty-intercepted/ "Amnesty Intercepted: Global human rights groups blocked by Web censoring software" This report, released jointly with a statement from Amnesty International, lists sites on Amnesty, their affiliates, and other human rights Web pages that were blocked by one or more of Cyber Patrol, Bess, SurfWatch, or CYBERsitter. Amnesty International brought the issue to our attention as a result of complaints that they (and we) were getting from students, who were unable to access Amnesty and other Web sites from school. The 30 sites listed in the report include Amnesty International Israel (blocked by Cyber Patrol), the NYU law school chapter of Amnesty (blocked by SurfWatch), and Casa-Alianza.org, an organization documenting violations of children's human rights in Central America (blocked by Bess). These sites were blocked due to being classified under categories such as "sexually explicit", "drugs", "violence", or "hate speech". (They were specifically *not* blocked for being classified as "political" pages, even though some schools do block students from accessing pages under "political" categories.) Amnesty USA's media director, Karen Schneider, released this statement to accompany the report: "It's extremely unfortunate that students in schools across the United States are inadvertently being denied access to portions of Amnesty International Web sites by these software programs. These students should be lauded -- not thwarted -- for their efforts to obtain important human rights information." Amnesty USA's phone number is 202-544-0200; I'm at 425-649-9024. -Bennett bennett@peacefire.org http://www.peacefire.org (425) 649 9024 - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 12 Dec 2000 21:28:24 -0500 From: "Marco Shaw" Subject: DSL related info I'm a new guy to the whole telco side of the Internet, and would like to know more. I hear talk of splitters, coils, bridge taps, drops, protectors, etc. What are some good references with a tendancy to look more at it's DSL capabilities? Books and online articles... Thanks, Marco - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 12 Dec 2000 21:44:13 -0500 From: Wes Leatherock Subject: Re: Message Mysteriously in Voice Mailbox - How? On 12 Dec 2000 16:23:03 -0500 Pete Ritter wrote: > Can anyone offer ideas on how this happened? > > My wife received a message in her Sprint PCS voice mailbox. It was her > father saying "OK. Your English no entiendo nada." ("I don't understand > your English"). My wife's parents live in Mexico and speak virtually no > English. When we asked him about this message, he said that he never left > such a message but that he did receive a call from a woman speaking English > and that's what he said to her. Does anyone have any idea how the message > could have appeared in her VMbox? > > Other possibly relevant information is: > > The mailbox says that the call (that left the message) was from 972 818 xxxx > which I believe means Grapevine, TX. We have tried calling this number but > get no answer. Grapevine is in area code 817, as it has since NPAs were first established. 972 818 is in Renner. Wes Leatherock wleath@sandbox.dynip.com - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 12 Dec 2000 21:54:49 -0500 From: Wes Leatherock Subject: Re: AT&T still charging some people for leasing equipment On 12 Dec 2000 12:08:32 -0500 Joseph Singer wrote: > 11 Dec 2000 19:00:50 -0500 "Marshall A. Levin" wrote: [ ... much snipped about AT&T charges for leased equipment ... ] > >Anyway, we got AT&T to stop charging them, issue a $100 refund and convinced > >them to waive the requirement that the leased equipment, which was probably > >lost years ago, be returned. > > I think AT&T was *more* than generous to give a $100 credit and > discontinue charging for this. Just because someone forgets what they're > paying for isn't an excuse. This charge was nothing new if they'd been > paying it for years. If there was any doubt what it was a simple call to > AT&T would have cleared that up. If they've been paying "thousands" of > dollars in rental fees that's only because they didn't investigate what > they'd be paying for. You can buy the equivalent phone for $35 or so brand > new or mostly these days you can pick up the original equipment for $5 at a > garage sale. Ignorance is no defense. A few observations: 1. The original post said nothing about the equipment being unsatisfactory or unserviceable, just an old and perhaps unstylish model. The equipment provided by telephone operating companies (Bell and otherwise) when they provided the equipment and on-site maintenance as part of the monthly charge was engineered to last for a very long time, and to require minimal maintenance. It appears that AT&T provided equipment in good working order. 2. Hardly any telephones sold today are the equivalent in reliability and maintainability. It's doubtful there are any new ones for sale today, at $35 or any other price, since today's economics militate against making such a robust piece of equipment. 3. Depending on the model, the old phone(s) may be worth much more than $5 each. Many have become collectibles, and their value is enhanced if they are still working. 4. For a time, and perhaps still, the only place to get a new (refurbished like new) Princess telephone was to lease one from AT&T. They were apparently in much demand and AT&T refused to offer any for sale--only for lease. Wes Leatherock wleath@sandbox.dynip.com - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 12 Dec 2000 21:58:56 -0500 From: Wes Leatherock Subject: Re: Pulling the Zero, and higher digits On 12 Dec 2000 09:11:49 -0500 Joel B Levin wrote: [ ... text deleted ... ] > This reminds me of something that I experimented with once, but so long ago > that I don't remember when or where. Armed with the realization that "0" > really meant a digit of value 10 and with some practice at "dialing" with the > switch hook, I attempted to see what would happen if one "dialed" a digit with > value of 11 or more. My memory tells me that a couple of times I got some > weird internal telco facility to answer, but most values of higher digits did > nothing on their own. So I wonder: were there things that were done that used > longer pulls than "0"? > > /JBL Nope. There was no piece of equipment to generate more than 10 pulses, and selectors and connectors were physical pieces of equipment with 10 levels and 10 contacts per level. Wes Leatherock wleath@sandbox.dynip.com - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 12 Dec 2000 22:05:50 -0500 From: Wes Leatherock Subject: Re: touchtone surcharge, was: Re: Early NPA Assignments [was Pulling On 11 Dec 2000 20:22:58 -0500 John McHarry wrote: > On 11 Dec 2000 13:39:18 -0500, dannyb@panix.com (danny burstein) > wrote: > > >In <912ocs$7id$1@panix3.panix.com> roy@panix.com (Roy Smith) writes: > >... > >Alas, keep in mind that removal of the surcharge tends to lead to a > >corresponding general rate increase. > > Despite the fact, at least for a DMS, that it takes more switch > resource to support dialpulse customers. That has been true in common control offices from the time touch-tone registers were provided in No. 5 crossbar. If I recall correctly, the first No. 5 XB offices had only dial pulse registers and MF registers for interoffice calls. Were touch-tone receivers ever provided in Panel-Type and No. 1 Crossbar offices? Originally No. 1 XB did not even have MF signalling capabilities (either inbound or outbound). It was conceived of for use in multi-office cities which were all Panel-Type and even when one No. 1 XB office signaled another 1XB office both emulated Panel-Type offices with revertive pulsing. Wes Leatherock wleath@sandbox.dynip.com - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 13 Dec 2000 04:01:32 -0500 From: murray@pa.dec.com (Hal Murray) Subject: Re: AT&T still charging some people for leasing equipment > 1. The original post said nothing about the equipment being > unsatisfactory or unserviceable, just an old and perhaps unstylish > model. The equipment provided by telephone operating companies > (Bell and otherwise) when they provided the equipment and on-site > maintenance as part of the monthly charge was engineered to last > for a very long time, and to require minimal maintenance. It > appears that AT&T provided equipment in good working order. > 2. Hardly any telephones sold today are the equivalent in > reliability and maintainability. It's doubtful there are any > new ones for sale today, at $35 or any other price, since today's > economics militate against making such a robust piece of equipment. Mine still works fine. I admit I don't make a lot of calls. I've had it for over 20 years. I don't know how long it had been there when I moved in. When PacBell went out of that part of the business, they offered it to me. I forget the price. I think it was only a few $. I remember thinking that it seemed like a good deal given the reliability of the phones I had used. In return for my check, they sent me a sticker to put next to the "Bell System Property" stamped on the base. I'll bring in what it says if anybody is interested. - -- These are my opinions, not necessarily my employers. I hate spam. - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 13 Dec 2000 04:54:54 -0500 From: "Gail M. Hall" Subject: Re: AT&T still charging some people for leasing equipment On 12 Dec 2000 12:08:32 -0500, in comp.dcom.telecom, you (Joseph Singer ) wrote: >11 Dec 2000 19:00:50 -0500 "Marshall A. Levin" wrote: > >>Anyway, we got AT&T to stop charging them, issue a $100 refund and convinced >>them to waive the requirement that the leased equipment, which was probably >>lost years ago, be returned. > >I think AT&T was *more* than generous to give a $100 credit and >discontinue charging for this. Just because someone forgets what they're >paying for isn't an excuse. This charge was nothing new if they'd been >paying it for years. If there was any doubt what it was a simple call to >AT&T would have cleared that up. If they've been paying "thousands" of >dollars in rental fees that's only because they didn't investigate what >they'd be paying for. You can buy the equivalent phone for $35 or so brand >new or mostly these days you can pick up the original equipment for $5 at a >garage sale. Ignorance is no defense. I too think AT&T was generous to refund the old couple $100. I don't know how it was in other states, but when Ohio Bell customers were told that the equipment belonged to AT&T and AT&T started charging a rental fee, this information was very clearly stated in mail to customers. As I remember it, we heard from both Ohio Bell and AT&T. Not only that, this now elderly couple was quite a bit younger back then and probably can't use old age as an excuse -- unless they are in their nineties now. When the breakup happened and phone equipment was given over to AT&T, we continued to rent our phones for a few months. When I called Ohio Bell to ask them to change us from party line service to a single user line, they told me that we would need to get different phones. They said phones for party lines were made different from phones for single-user lines. So we decided this was a good time to buy our phones. We turned our leased phones in at an AT&T store and went to Sears and got some new phones. Amazingly, we paid $10 each for the phones. Most of the phones were quite a bit more, though. I was surprised to find phones for $10. The phones didn't last long, but they did well for a good while. One reason we rented our phones as long as we did was that in order to use the new phones, we had to get someone to put the correct plug-in to the wall. One of my sons got what was needed from Radio Shack, and we were in business. We switched to a single user line because I bought a modem for my computer, and they said I needed a single user line for the modem to work right. Back then, too, we had to call the phone company to report that we were using a modem and give them the numbers in the booklet that came with the modem. My modem was pretty much state of the art then -- 1200 baud. :-) A big improvement over the 300 baud that most people had back then. It's too bad if AT&T didn't approach the people more about buying their phones, but it may be that AT&T did do that and the people just didn't pay attention. We are so bombarded by ads these days that most of us get to the point we just don't pay any attention to any of them. I wish I had a dollar for every ad we have gotten from Ameritech trying to sell us cable television service! Grief! They are supposed to be in the telephone business. - -- Gail from Ohio - -- - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ End of Telecom Digest V2000 #151 ******************************** Date: 13 Dec 2000 22:44:14 -0500 From: owner-telecom-digest@telecom-digest.org (Telecom Digest) To: telecom-digest@telecom-digest.org Subject: Telecom Digest V2000 #152 Telecom Digest Wednesday, December 13 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 152 In this issue: Re: AT&T still charging some people for leasing equipment Re: Pulling the Zero, and higher digits Re: Early NPA Assignments [was Pulling the Zero] Re: Early NPA Assignments [was Pulling the Zero] Re: AT&T still charging some people for leasing equipment Blast from the past - AMIS Re: Early NPA Assignments [was Pulling the Zero] Re: Early NPA Assignments [was Pulling the Zero] Voice & Data Comm. Analyst Role in Toronto; 60-65K+ Re: NEED AUTOMATIC 2-LINE BRIDGE Re: AT&T still charging some people for leasing equipment Re: AT&T still charging some people for leasing equipment Re: AT&T still charging some people for leasing equipment Re: Access Tandem early DTMF, was: Re: Early NPA Assignments [was Pulling the Zero] Re: AT&T still charging some people for leasing equipment ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 13 Dec 2000 07:36:39 -0500 From: Roy Smith Subject: Re: AT&T still charging some people for leasing equipment Wes Leatherock wrote: > 2. Hardly any telephones sold today are the equivalent in > reliability and maintainability. It's doubtful there are any > new ones for sale today, at $35 or any other price, since today's > economics militate against making such a robust piece of equipment. There used to be a saying that if you dropped a WECo phone off a desk, the floor would suffer more damage than the phone. - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 13 Dec 2000 08:53:39 -0500 From: Linc Madison Subject: Re: Pulling the Zero, and higher digits In article , Wes Leatherock wrote: > On 12 Dec 2000 09:11:49 -0500 Joel B Levin wrote: > > > So I wonder: were there things that were done that used longer > > pulls than "0"? > > Nope. There was no piece of equipment to generate more than 10 > pulses, and selectors and connectors were physical pieces of > equipment with 10 levels and 10 contacts per level. My brother once tried to call from an airport rotary-dial payphone to (401) xxx-xxxx, but kept getting connected to someone in Kentucky, because 0-401-xxx-xxxx was picked up by the switch as 0-502-xxx-xxxx with each of the numbers 1 through 9 shifted over by one in the rest of the number. The 0's went through as 0's, though. He finally had to give up and just dial '0' and give the number to the operator; I got to call AT&T and get the call re-rated to direct-dial calling-card instead of operator-assisted calling-card, back when they still did that as a courtesy to folks using equipment incapable of 0+ dialing. Of course, they also took off the charges for the two attempts that went through to 502. This was probably in about 1982 or 1983. - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 13 Dec 2000 08:59:21 -0500 From: Linc Madison Subject: Re: Early NPA Assignments [was Pulling the Zero] In article <915efl$et5$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, wrote: > In article 100000@mail.sandbox.dynip.com>, > Wes Leatherock wrote: > > > > The system had broken down long before 1995. By the early 1950s a > > second area code (918) had been added in Oklahoma, which had been > > designated as a single area code state and so was assigned 405 at > > the inception of area codes. There were many similar examples > > around the country in the 1950s. > > Actually, the system broke down before it even started. New Jersey > was supposed to have just 1 NPA -- 201. When the service was rolled > out, New Jersey had 2 area codes: 201 and 609. No, actually, the area code system made it for more than a decade before area code 201 split to form 609. Area code 201 was assigned with the original rollout in 1947, but 609 didn't take effect until 1958. The original area code system was rolled out for operator dialing and routing in 1947. Customers couldn't dial the area code, at least not generally, until several years later. - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 13 Dec 2000 09:23:03 -0500 From: Linc Madison Subject: Re: Early NPA Assignments [was Pulling the Zero] In article <3a35aad7$0$1504$53a6afc1@news.erinet.com>, Art Kamlet wrote: > In article , > Wes Leatherock wrote: > > > > 201 is not the lowest area code. These were assigned in > >the days of rotary dials, and zero was 10 pulses, not zero > >pulses. > > > > The digit "1" is the lowest number on a rotary dial, > >and "0" is the highest. > > > On a list of area codes, 201 is the lowest numbered code. > > 201 < 202 < 203 ..... < 212 < 213 .... > > I'm not talking about fewest pulses, but just 201 as a number. > > It was deliberately chosen as the "first" number because Bell Labs > was there and the area code folks wanted 201 for themselves. In > those days, if that's how you wanted it, so be it. It also fit perfectly well with the general scheme of things. In 1947, New Jersey had only a single area code, but it had one of the highest inbound call volumes of any single-code states, maybe even the highest. (After all, the two largest metropolitan areas in New Jersey are New York City and Philadelphia, leading to a lot of cross-border traffic.) Thus, Single area code per state ==> n0x code + High traffic volume ==> low dial-pull total == New Jersey ==> 201 It had very little, if anything, to do with the presence of Bell Labs in New Jersey. Maybe D.C. should've been 201 and New Jersey 202, but that's about as far as you could stretch the story. - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 13 Dec 2000 10:00:36 -0500 From: Wes Leatherock Subject: Re: AT&T still charging some people for leasing equipment On 13 Dec 2000 04:54:54 -0500 Gail M. Hall wrote: > I too think AT&T was generous to refund the old couple $100. I don't know > how it was in other states, but when Ohio Bell customers were told that the > equipment belonged to AT&T and AT&T started charging a rental fee, this > information was very clearly stated in mail to customers. As I remember > it, we heard from both Ohio Bell and AT&T. Not only that, this now elderly > couple was quite a bit younger back then and probably can't use old age as > an excuse -- unless they are in their nineties now. > > When the breakup happened and phone equipment was given over to AT&T, we > continued to rent our phones for a few months. When I called Ohio Bell to > ask them to change us from party line service to a single user line, they > told me that we would need to get different phones. They said phones for > party lines were made different from phones for single-user lines. So we > decided this was a good time to buy our phones. We turned our leased > phones in at an AT&T store and went to Sears and got some new phones. > Amazingly, we paid $10 each for the phones. Most of the phones were quite > a bit more, though. I was surprised to find phones for $10. The phones > didn't last long, but they did well for a good while. > > One reason we rented our phones as long as we did was that in order to use > the new phones, we had to get someone to put the correct plug-in to the > wall. One of my sons got what was needed from Radio Shack, and we were in > business. > > We switched to a single user line because I bought a modem for my computer, > and they said I needed a single user line for the modem to work right. > Back then, too, we had to call the phone company to report that we were > using a modem and give them the numbers in the booklet that came with the > modem. > > My modem was pretty much state of the art then -- 1200 baud. :-) A big > improvement over the 300 baud that most people had back then. > > It's too bad if AT&T didn't approach the people more about buying their > phones, but it may be that AT&T did do that and the people just didn't pay > attention. > > We are so bombarded by ads these days that most of us get to the point we > just don't pay any attention to any of them. I wish I had a dollar for > every ad we have gotten from Ameritech trying to sell us cable television > service! Grief! They are supposed to be in the telephone business. > > -- > Gail from Ohio I am 72 years old and I resent being called a "victim" because I am "elderly." Most of the people I know--yes, into their 90s--have not taken leave of their senses. (Yes, I know that there are some suffering from Alzheimer's or other terrible disorders, and they are to be pitied, at any age, and are excluded from this characterization.) Recently we have heard a great deal about telemarketing fraud and about how "elderly" people are more like to be taken in by such schemes than younger people because they are more "trusting." A couple of the reports have had breakdowns of telemarketing fraud victims by age cohort. The percentage of the "elderly" taken in by telemarketing fraud was only a tiny percentage higher than that of younger cohorts, and probably within the margin of error. Most of the older people I know are probably less "trusting" than younger people, having the benefit of years of experience. Some young people are dumb, ignorant or feckless, or all three; so are some older people. Quite likely the older people who fit that mold were the same way when they were younger. In Oklahoma, not only did Southwestern Bell and AT&T both put out information about the transfer of telephones to AT&T by court order, they specifically noted you could buy your own phone, and as I recall the information pages of the phone book even had diagrams for installing or converting your existing connecting block or outlet to the proper jack. On 13 Dec 2000 07:36:39 -0500 Roy Smith wrote: > Wes Leatherock wrote: >> 2. Hardly any telephones sold today are the equivalent in >> reliability and maintainability. It's doubtful there are any >> new ones for sale today, at $35 or any other price, since today's >> economics militate against making such a robust piece of equipment. > >There used to be a saying that if you dropped a WECo phone off a desk, >the floor would suffer more damage than the phone. This wasn't just a humorous saying and was little or no exaggeration. I sometimes dropped mine on the floor (pushed it off the desk or table while I was reaching for something), and saw many other people do so, and it was practically unknown for the telephone to have damage, although the floor or items of furniture it hit might have suffered. Including unlimited in-home service in the package price of the service was a powerful incentive for telcos to provide this kind of reliability in the apparatus. Wes Leatherock wleath@sandbox.dynip.com - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 13 Dec 2000 10:55:36 -0500 From: John Gerlich Subject: Blast from the past - AMIS Does anyone know where I can get the analog AMIS specs. The Information Industry Assoc. no longer seems to be in business in D.C. They used to sell the spec. I need to implement AMIS to a Trilog system. - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 13 Dec 2000 12:06:21 -0500 From: "Ed Ellers" Subject: Re: Early NPA Assignments [was Pulling the Zero] wrote: "Although DTMF was made available to the public in 1964 or 1965..." November 1963, apparently a few days before the assassination of President Kennedy. There had been technical trials as early as 1960 and market trials in 1962. - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 13 Dec 2000 12:06:26 -0500 From: "Ed Ellers" Subject: Re: Early NPA Assignments [was Pulling the Zero] Wes Leatherock wrote: "The system had broken down long before 1995. By the early 1950s a second area code (918) had been added in Oklahoma, which had been designated as a single area code state and so was assigned 405 at the inception of area codes. There were many similar examples around the country in the 1950s." Including Kentucky, which initially had only one NPA (502) but added NPA 606 fairly quickly as the Lexington metro area (and the suburbs of Cincinnati) grew. - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 13 Dec 2000 13:30:31 -0500 From: "ITnmotion" Subject: Voice & Data Comm. Analyst Role in Toronto; 60-65K+ I am hoping that this is an appropriate site to inform visitors of this newsgroup about a Telecommunications opportunity in Toronto. I could really use some help finding a Voice/Data Communications Analyst with strong Meridian PBX and IVR programming and support experience. If you are interested, please review our posting below and email a resume to lsherman@itnmotion.com. You can also visit us at www.itnmotion.com to view our current list of available opportunities. Thanks kindly! Voice/Data Communications Analyst; 60-65K+; Toronto Required Skills: - - Meridian PBX programming - - IVR - - Data connections - - Frame Relay - - T1 Lines Desirable Skills: - - DAVOX Predictive Dialer - - UNIX - - Networking - - Credit Card Processing Systems Job Description: Our client, a growing and successful private label credit card processing company, is offering an exceptional opportunity for a Voice/Data Communications Analyst. The successful candidate will be responsible for ordering and maintaining data links and programming on the PBX. More details are available for qualified candidates. Our client is offering the following generous benefits: - - A savings plan with a minimum of 25% interest - - A minimum of 3 weeks vacation - - Extended health and dental care benefits - - Short term and long term disability benefits - - Life Insurance Benefits - - Educational Assistance - - Mortgage Subsidy - -- Lisa Sherman Manager, Recruitment Services ITnmotion 4950 Yonge Street, Suite 208 North York, ON M2N 6K1 Tel: 416-250-2604 Fax: 416-250-2629 lsherman@itnmotion.com www.itnmotion.com - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 13 Dec 2000 15:27:46 -0500 From: Cboone@Earthlink.net Subject: Re: NEED AUTOMATIC 2-LINE BRIDGE Contact Teltone (www.teltone.com) and check their M106E DISA box.. its what you want (but it is not cheap!)..allows hookflashing and dialing a second number by use of long * and #...hangs up after pretermined time OR dialtone OR loop current... Nice box...their older M106 version was used quite a bit by companies wanting DISA on a PBX that didnt support it....or didnt want to pay the price. Chris > > >Jack Powers > > > > >> I'm looking for a device that will answer one line with dial tone > > >> from a second line and permit calls out on the second line. > > >> It must hang up the second line when the caller on the first > > >> one hangs up (determined by silence?). > > >> > > >> I believe that sutch gadgets used to be popular for indirect access > > >> to WATS lines, but I can't find one now. - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 13 Dec 2000 16:53:57 -0500 From: oldbear@arctos.com (The Old Bear) Subject: Re: AT&T still charging some people for leasing equipment On 13 Dec 2000 04:54:54 -0500 Gail M. Hall wrote: > I too think AT&T was generous to refund the old couple $100. I don't know > how it was in other states, but when Ohio Bell customers were told that the > equipment belonged to AT&T and AT&T started charging a rental fee, this > information was very clearly stated in mail to customers. As I remember > it, we heard from both Ohio Bell and AT&T. Not only that, this now elderly > couple was quite a bit younger back then and probably can't use old age as > an excuse -- unless they are in their nineties now. from The Detroit News (December 21, 1995) Telephones ring up ripoff for consumers who pay lease fees year after year - --------------------------------------- By Kathy Kristof Talk about a bad deal. Anne Werner paid somewhere in excess of $600 for a $10 phone -- and she didn't even get to keep it. Werner absent-mindedly leased a telephone, paying between $4 and $7 per month for the clunky -- but dependable -- rotary-dial relic she'd had since long before the breakup of Ma Bell in 1984. It wasn't until she moved last year that she realized she still had the phone in a little-used bedroom of her house, and was paying through the nose for it. "I'm embarrassed to admit I did this," says Werner, director of community services at United Seniors Health Cooperative in Washington, D.C. "I'm a consumer advocate. I should have known better." But when it comes to phones, millions of people do what Werner did. They lease -- paying many times more for the leased equipment than they'd ever dream of spending for a comparable phone purchase. Sometimes consumers even forget about the phones, shoving them in closets and attics when they buy newer models. But they continue to pay lease fees that range from $4 to $20.95 per month -- every month, for years on end. AT&T reports that 5.5 million of its customers lease their phones -- and 90 percent of them have been leasing since Ma Bell broke up, spinning off a plethora of local and long-distance corporate offspring, way back in 1984. GTE has an estimated 2 million leasing customers, too. And somewhere in the neighborhood of 3.5 million additional consumers lease phones from a handful of other telecommunications firms, industry experts estimate. Together, that's about 11 million people, paying in excess of $55 million a month. "This is a consumer ripoff at its finest," says Jordan Clark, president of United Homeowners Association, a Washington, D.C., consumer group. Clark was introduced to the issue last year when he learned that his elderly father-in-law was leasing two phones from AT&T. The cumulative cost for those phones, which naturally had to be returned, was $1,100 - -- about $110 a year, Clark says. "We were outraged. The immediate thought that came to mind was how many other people out there are doing this?" When he found out, Clark started to campaign for change. He's now trying to persuade the Federal Communications Commission to sponsor telephone-leasing reforms -- or at least to demand more disclosure from the phone companies. However, at a time when Congress is debating a overhaul of the entire telecommunications industry, Clark's efforts have met with little success. Regulators simply have bigger fish to fry, Clark sighs. Besides, telecommunications giants argue that consumers choose to lease, and government ought not to mess with free market choices. To a great degree that's true. Almost everyone who leases a phone has the option to turn in the phone at any time. (A handful of leasing customers has three-month contracts, but nearly everyone else leases from month-to-month.) And, despite the high cost, there are a few good reasons to lease. For instance, if you want to try out new phone equipment before you buy, it might be wise to lease it for a few months. If you're in temporary quarters and don't want to drag phones -- along with all your other worldly possessions -- to a new place in a few months, it might make sense to lease, too. Virtually every department and discount store in the country sells phones at prices ranging from $9.95 to $200. - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 13 Dec 2000 16:56:02 -0500 From: oldbear@arctos.com (The Old Bear) Subject: Re: AT&T still charging some people for leasing equipment Some historical notes in the form of old AT&T press releases: - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Note: AT&T closed its Phone Center Stores in 1996. AT&T no longer | makes, sells or leases telephone or telecommunications equipment. | The Consumer Products group is now part of Lucent Technologies, an | independent company spun off from AT&T in 1996. Lucent still sells | and services AT&T branded telephones. For information about Lucent's | products and services, call Lucent at 1-888-4-LUCENT (1-888-458-2368) | or visit Lucent's website http://www.lucent.com/ FOR RELEASE MONDAY, FEBUARY 1, 1988 Leased residential phone prices up - ---------------------------------- PARSIPPANY, N.J. -- AT&T today announced price increases for its leased residential telephones, guaranteed the new prices until 1990 and added new products and services to the line of equipment it makes available for customers to lease. The company said the price increases range from 45 cents to 95 cents per month and become effective in March, April or May, depending on the customer's billing cycle. Lease customers will be informed of the new prices beginning today with messages printed on their bills or through direct mail notices. All lease customers are scheduled to receive at least 30 days' notice before the new prices take effect. "This is our first price increase in two years and we're freezing these new prices until Jan. 1, 1990," said Douglas Quinn, AT&T vice president for leased services. "We're also adding new products and services in response to requests made during interviews we held with thousands of customers. We're committed to meeting our lease customers' needs now and in the years to come." Later this year, the company will begin offering customers the option to pay their lease bills in person at selected locations. Currently, AT&T accepts payment for leased phones through the mail. The company said it will change the guidelines for shipping replacement leased telephones. AT&T currently will, at no charge, exchange a broken leased phone at an AT&T Phone Center or an AT&T authorized service agency, or ship a replacement to a customer's home in three to five days. AT&T has authorized service agencies in hardware stores, pharmacies and similar small businesses across the country. While the company will continue this service, as of today it will send a replacement phone free of charge by next day delivery service when an AT&T representative determines the loss of a broken leased phone creates a hardship for a customer. AT&T also will continue to make exchanges for a phone of a different color at no charge. After the price increases, AT&T's Traditional rotary telephone will lease for $2.70 per month instead of $2.25. The Traditional Touch-Tone monthly lease price will rise to $4.25 from $3.55. The Trimline and Princess rotary telephones will lease for $4.75 per month instead of $3.95. The Trimline and Princess Touch-Tone monthly lease price will rise to $5.50 per month from $4.60. AT&T's Enhanced Trimline phone, which has a control that can adjust the receiver's volume and a button to redial the last number called, will lease for $6.70 instead of $5.75. On March 1, AT&T will begin leasing a phone that will dial one of 12 stored numbers at the touch of a button. The phone has a lighted dial with buttons that can redial the last number called and place calls on hold. It also has a control that amplifies the sound in the receiver's earpiece. The Memory Telephone 410 will lease for $8.85 per month. AT&T recently began leasing the AT&T G-6 volume control handset, which customers can attach to many existing telephones. The handset is useful to customers with hearing impairments because they can boost the volume in its earpiece by up to 30 percent over the sound level in a normal receiver. AT&T also recommends the use of the handset to other customers for use in noisy locations such as kitchens or dens. The handset leases for 95 cents per month. The company said it plans to begin leasing more products requested by customers, including cordless phones and answering machines, later this year. FOR RELEASE WEDNESDAY, JUNE 29, 1988 Leased product line expanded; includes cordless phones - ------------------------------------------------------ PARSIPPANY, N.J. -- AT&T today announced that on July 1 it will begin leasing cordless telephones to customers for the first time. The company said it will offer three other telephones with special features, including a two-line telephone, for lease on Aug. 1. These phones will join AT&T's current lease product line, which includes traditional and Trimline* phones. "We're leasing cordless phones in response to requests made in thousands of customer interviews," said Douglas Quinn, vice president of lease services for AT&T. "We've found that many lease customers want both the convenience offered by phones with special features and the service that leasing provides." The two available cordless phones are the AT&T Models 5200 and 5310. Both feature sound quality as clear as a traditional AT&T phone's and a power system that works for up to seven days without recharging. AT&T will provide lease customers free replacement antennas and batteries for the phones, when necessary. An advanced security system in the phones selects one of more than 65,000 security codes each time they are returned to the bases that charge their batteries. The Model 5310 will enable lease customers to dial any of nine telephone numbers stored in the phone's memory by touching just two buttons. The phone also features a lighted dial and an out-of-range alert that beeps when the user moves to a location that reduces the phone's effectiveness. The Model 5200 will lease for $19.95 per month and the Model 5310 for $24.95 per month. On Aug. 1, AT&T will begin leasing the Traditional Telephone 100, the Feature Telephone 400 and the AT&T Two-Line Telephone 412. The Traditional Telephone 100 stores the last phone number dialed and redials it at the press of a button. It also has a mute button that turns off the receiver's microphone to allow a speaker to talk with someone in the room without being overheard on the other end of the phone line. The Feature Telephone 400 has a low silhouette and offers the same features as the Traditional Telephone 100 plus a lighted dial and a control that enables customers to adjust the volume in the receiver's earpiece. The Two-Line Telephone 412 is designed for customers with two local telephone company lines. With this phone, lease customers can make or receive calls on either line, put either line on hold, or conference both lines together for a three-way conversation. The Traditional Telephone 100 will lease for $5.50 per month, the Feature Telephone 400 for $6.70 per month, and the Two-Line Telephone 412 for $14.35 per month. Prices for the consumer phones AT&T currently leases range from $2.70 per month to $8.85 per month. Customers leasing AT&T phones get immediate, free, over-the-counter replacement of a damaged phone with the same model at more than 1,000 locations across the country, including AT&T-owned Phone Centers* and AT&T-authorized Service Agencies. AT&T also will mail replacement phones to customers free of charge when a leased phone is damaged or defective. If a customer leases a phone that is available in more than one color, the customer can exchange that phone for one of another color at no extra charge. The company said also it would make a speakerphone available for lease later in the year. With a speakerphone, one or more people in a room can carry on a phone conversation without using a telephone receiver. FOR RELEASE THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 2, 1989 Residential telephone lease service prices up - --------------------------------------------- PARSIPPANY, N.J. -- AT&T today announced price increases for its residential telephone lease service and guaranteed the new prices until 1992. The price increases range from 25 cents to 95 cents per month and become effective in January, February or March of 1990, depending on the customer's billing cycle. "In recent research, thousands of customers continue to tell us they want to lease AT&T products," said Stan St. John, AT&T vice president for residential lease services. "This increase will help us continue to provide and expand the selection of quality lease products and services." Lease customers will be informed of the new prices beginning today ith messages printed on their bills or through direct mail notices. All lease customers are scheduled to receive at least 30 days' notice before the new prices take effect. The AT&T Traditional rotary telephone will lease for $3.50 per month instead of $2.70. The Traditional Touch-Tone monthly lease price will rise to $5.10 from $4.25. The Princess rotary telephone will lease for $5.70 per month instead of $4.75, and the Princess Touch-Tone will lease for $6.45 per month instead of $5.50. The Trimline rotary monthly lease price will rise to $5.25 from $4.75, and the Trimline Touch-Tone and Traditional 100 will rise to $5.95 from $5.50. The Enhanced Trimline and Feature Telephone 400 monthly lease prices will rise to $6.95 from $6.70. "In the past two years, we've more than doubled the number of products customers can lease, adding cordless telephones, speakerphones and answering machines," St. John said. "Next year, we'll add more new products." "Customers have told us how important the convenience of leasing is," he said. "They especially appreciate the free, immediate replacement of leased products for any reason, no questions asked." Customers whose leased phones are damaged or who want different colors or models can exchange them at more than 1,000 AT&T Phone Centers and AT&T-authorized service agencies. AT&T has authorized service agencies in hardware stores, pharmacies and similar retail businesses across the country. If customers prefer, AT&T will ship the equipment to their home or office at no charge, whether it is a replacement or additional leased equipment. "Our goal is to satisfy the emerging needs of our customers with the highest quality lease service for the long term, and this increase will help us meet that commitment," said St. John. - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 13 Dec 2000 17:19:12 -0500 From: Paul Gloger Subject: Re: AT&T still charging some people for leasing equipment On 12 Dec 2000 12:08:32 -0500, Joseph Singer wrote: >11 Dec 2000 19:00:50 -0500 "Marshall A. Levin" >wrote: >>I just recently learned that AT&T has been charging my grandparents a >>monthly fee, admittedly a rather small one, for leasing some really >>old rotary-dial phones..... >>Anyway, we got AT&T to stop charging them, issue a $100 refund and >>convinced them to waive the requirement that the leased equipment, >>which was probably lost years ago, be returned. >I think AT&T was *more* than generous to give a $100 credit and >discontinue charging for this. .... >If there was any doubt what it was a simple call to >AT&T would have cleared that up. .... I'm sorry, but the assertion that "a simple call to AT&T (or whatever phone company) would clear up any doubt" about the charges on one's phone bill, for an average person, let alone an older folk, is sheer fantasy and nonsense. I am an engineer, very up on telecom., a regular reader of this Digest for countless years, and *extremely* aggressive about understanding and not overpaying any bills and charges to me. Nonetheless, literally about half of the charges on my (very basic) home phone bill every month, from PacBell and AT&T in my case, are incomprehensible to me and to anybody and everybody that I've ever been able to contact at the phone companies. When I call and ask, all they say is that they are required to charge those amounts. I've given up on understanding, it's all just a tax which I have to pay for phone service. Indeed, most of the mystery charges seem to be related to taxes and fees imposed by various government entities - or so the phone companies say. In any case, again, the assertion that a simple phone call would clear up any doubt about phone-bill charges is highly wishful thinking. I dearly wish it were so! Paul Gloger - ------- - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 13 Dec 2000 20:16:43 -0500 From: "Carl G. Knoblock" Subject: Re: Access Tandem Phil Smiley wrote: > > What constitutes an Access Tandem. What (aside from the switching > equipment) is required? > Thank You, > Smiley > -- > The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail > messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. You need trunks to and from the class 5 offices (local dial tone switches) in the lata, and to and from the interlata carriers. The switch must be capable of handling billing data and passing it to the carriers in real time or at least in a few hours. The switch may be a combined Tandem/class 5 office or a dedicated tandem (normal in large population centers.) Carriers may also bypass the Tandem, if volume warrents, at their option. Larger class 5 offices have many more direct carrier trunks than do small community offices. Tandems are normally operated by the largest LEC in the Lata, because they need one for thier own local, intralata toll, anyway. Larger LATAs may have multiple Access Tandems. - -- Carl G. Knoblock Telephone Tech - (402) 397-5533 cknoblo@home.com KansasFest 2001, July 25-29, 2001 3325 South 89th St. 2001: A Kfest Odyssey Omaha, NE 68124-3008 - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 13 Dec 2000 21:37:51 -0500 From: dannyb@panix.com (danny burstein) Subject: early DTMF, was: Re: Early NPA Assignments [was Pulling the Zero] In <916i38$30f7s$1@ID-39509.news.dfncis.de> "Ed Ellers" writes: > wrote: >"Although DTMF was made available to the public in 1964 or 1965..." >November 1963, apparently a few days before the assassination of President >Kennedy. There had been technical trials as early as 1960 and market trials >in 1962. The, for want of a better term, Big Rollout was at the 1964/1965 World's Fair in Flushing Meadow Park in NYC. The phones had only ten buttons, though. Hmm.. now that I think about it, they might have had 11 (the final one being a special "world's fair operator" button). They also displayed Picturephones.. danny 'still waiting for my flying car' burstein - -- _____________________________________________________ Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key dannyb@panix.com [to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded] - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 13 Dec 2000 22:44:10 -0500 From: Robert Casey Subject: Re: AT&T still charging some people for leasing equipment I bought at fleamkt a beat up ma bell phone and turned it in. End of lease for me back in the eighties. And now I have a nice 500 phone set. "Gail M. Hall" wrote: > On 12 Dec 2000 12:08:32 -0500, in comp.dcom.telecom, you (Joseph Singer > ) wrote: > > >11 Dec 2000 19:00:50 -0500 "Marshall A. Levin" wrote: > > > >>Anyway, we got AT&T to stop charging them, issue a $100 refund and convinced > >>them to waive the requirement that the leased equipment, which was probably > >>lost years ago, be returned. > > > >I think AT&T was *more* than generous to give a $100 credit and > >discontinue charging for this. Just because someone forgets what they're > >paying for isn't an excuse. This charge was nothing new if they'd been > >paying it for years. If there was any doubt what it was a simple call to > >AT&T would have cleared that up. If they've been paying "thousands" of > >dollars in rental fees that's only because they didn't investigate what > >they'd be paying for. You can buy the equivalent phone for $35 or so brand > >new or mostly these days you can pick up the original equipment for $5 at a > >garage sale. Ignorance is no defense. > > I too think AT&T was generous to refund the old couple $100. I don't know > how it was in other states, but when Ohio Bell customers were told that the > equipment belonged to AT&T and AT&T started charging a rental fee, this > information was very clearly stated in mail to customers. As I remember > it, we heard from both Ohio Bell and AT&T. Not only that, this now elderly > couple was quite a bit younger back then and probably can't use old age as > an excuse -- unless they are in their nineties now. > > When the breakup happened and phone equipment was given over to AT&T, we > continued to rent our phones for a few months. When I called Ohio Bell to > ask them to change us from party line service to a single user line, they > told me that we would need to get different phones. They said phones for > party lines were made different from phones for single-user lines. So we > decided this was a good time to buy our phones. We turned our leased > phones in at an AT&T store and went to Sears and got some new phones. > Amazingly, we paid $10 each for the phones. Most of the phones were quite > a bit more, though. I was surprised to find phones for $10. The phones > didn't last long, but they did well for a good while. > > One reason we rented our phones as long as we did was that in order to use > the new phones, we had to get someone to put the correct plug-in to the > wall. One of my sons got what was needed from Radio Shack, and we were in > business. > > We switched to a single user line because I bought a modem for my computer, > and they said I needed a single user line for the modem to work right. > Back then, too, we had to call the phone company to report that we were > using a modem and give them the numbers in the booklet that came with the > modem. > > My modem was pretty much state of the art then -- 1200 baud. :-) A big > improvement over the 300 baud that most people had back then. > > It's too bad if AT&T didn't approach the people more about buying their > phones, but it may be that AT&T did do that and the people just didn't pay > attention. > > We are so bombarded by ads these days that most of us get to the point we > just don't pay any attention to any of them. I wish I had a dollar for > every ad we have gotten from Ameritech trying to sell us cable television > service! Grief! They are supposed to be in the telephone business. > > -- > Gail from Ohio > -- > -- > The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail > messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ End of Telecom Digest V2000 #152 ******************************** Date: 14 Dec 2000 06:15:14 -0500 From: owner-telecom-digest@telecom-digest.org (Telecom Digest) To: telecom-digest@telecom-digest.org Subject: Telecom Digest V2000 #153 Telecom Digest Thursday, December 14 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 153 In this issue: Re: AT&T still charging some people for leasing equipment Pushbutton phones - was Re: early DTMF, was: Re: Early NPA Assignments [was Pulling the Zero] Re: AT&T still charging some people for leasing equipment ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 14 Dec 2000 03:16:33 -0500 From: oldbear@arctos.com (The Old Bear) Subject: Re: AT&T still charging some people for leasing equipment Paul Gloger writes: >From: Paul Gloger >Newsgroups: comp.dcom.telecom >Subject: Re: AT&T still charging some people for leasing equipment >Date: 13 Dec 2000 17:19:12 -0500 > >I'm sorry, but the assertion that "a simple call to AT&T (or whatever >phone company) would clear up any doubt" about the charges on one's >phone bill, for an average person, let alone an older folk, is sheer >fantasy and nonsense. > >I am an engineer, very up on telecom., a regular reader of this Digest >for countless years, and *extremely* aggressive about understanding and >not overpaying any bills and charges to me. Nonetheless, literally >about half of the charges on my (very basic) home phone bill every >month, from PacBell and AT&T in my case, are incomprehensible to me and >to anybody and everybody that I've ever been able to contact at the >phone companies. When I call and ask, all they say is that they are >required to charge those amounts. I've given up on understanding, it's >all just a tax which I have to pay for phone service. Indeed, most of >the mystery charges seem to be related to taxes and fees imposed by >various government entities - or so the phone companies say. > >In any case, again, the assertion that a simple phone call would clear >up any doubt about phone-bill charges is highly wishful thinking. I >dearly wish it were so! > >Paul Gloger Folks who live in Ohio get the benefit of a helpful consumer guide to interpreting their phone bills prepared by the State of Ohio: http://www.state.oh.us/cons/handbook/3telephone.html#bill I'm sure that rapidly changing tarriffs, taxes and fees result in this guide becoming outdated more rapidly than the consumer agency can update it. Even so, it's better than the gobbledy-gook one often gets from telco customer service people who seem to make things up as they go along just to get the customer off the phone. Deregulation was supposed to encourage price competition but the phone companies have responded by adopting complicated pricing schemes to make price comparisons difficult or impossible. Add to that the incentive of governmental entities to attempt to conceal their taxes and the result is totally incomprehensible. Of course, you could study a typical hospital bill -- which, by comparison, makes a phone bill look simple by comparison. Cheers, The Old Bear - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 14 Dec 2000 03:28:00 -0500 From: "Gail M. Hall" Subject: Pushbutton phones - was Re: early DTMF, was: Re: Early NPA Assignments [was Pulling the Zero] On 13 Dec 2000 21:37:51 -0500, in comp.dcom.telecom, you (dannyb@panix.com (danny burstein)) wrote: >In <916i38$30f7s$1@ID-39509.news.dfncis.de> "Ed Ellers" writes: > >> wrote: > >>"Although DTMF was made available to the public in 1964 or 1965..." > >>November 1963, apparently a few days before the assassination of President >>Kennedy. There had been technical trials as early as 1960 and market trials >>in 1962. > >The, for want of a better term, Big Rollout was at the 1964/1965 World's >Fair in Flushing Meadow Park in NYC. The phones had only ten buttons, >though. Hmm.. now that I think about it, they might have had 11 (the final >one being a special "world's fair operator" button). Memories! I remember going into the Bell building at that fair. :-) > >They also displayed Picturephones.. > I've seen those displayed in various places but never saw one actually in use. What I am wondering now is when the first push-button phones came out, not necessarily tone phones, though. The first pushbutton phone I ever saw was at a real estate office sometime in late 1962 or early 1963, more likely 1962, when we were shopping for our first house. We went into the office to see if they had some houses they could offer us. We had a really good conversation with the owner, and I couldn't help noticing his unusual telephone. The owner of the company was severely disabled. He had very limited use of his hands and arms, but he could hold a pen and write with effort. His phone had a headset and a box with pushbuttons on it that he could use to "dial" the numbers. I could not hear whether the numbers pulsed or toned when he pushed the buttons. He did not have enough strength to actually dial an ordinary rotary dial, but he was able to handle the buttons just fine. This really impressed me because other than his physical disability he could handle his business very well. Having this phone was one of the big reasons he could do such a good job running his business without having to have employees doing *everything* for him. He did have employees, of course, but the pushbutton phone and headset gave him more independence. When we finally did decide to buy our own phones in the mid 1980s, we got pushbutton phones. By that time you could buy them with a switch to select tone or pulse, and you could switch to tone after you got your number for those places where you needed to enter tone numbers. We did not want to pay extra for tone service. So we always got pushbutton phones that could do pulses. Later I got another line and did pay for tone service. Even for pulse dialing pushbutton phones are much easier to use, and it is interesting to me that I did not see them before 1962. - -- Gail from Ohio - -- - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 14 Dec 2000 06:03:47 -0500 From: David Lind Subject: Re: AT&T still charging some people for leasing equipment In article <3.0.5.32.20001213141809.00a2ea90@garfield>, Paul Gloger wrote: > >I think AT&T was *more* than generous to give a $100 credit and > >discontinue charging for this. .... > >If there was any doubt what it was a simple call to > >AT&T would have cleared that up. .... > > I'm sorry, but the assertion that "a simple call to AT&T (or whatever > phone company) would clear up any doubt" about the charges on one's > phone bill, for an average person, let alone an older folk, is sheer > fantasy and nonsense. > > I am an engineer, very up on telecom., a regular reader of this Digest > for countless years, and *extremely* aggressive about understanding and > not overpaying any bills and charges to me. Nonetheless, literally > about half of the charges on my (very basic) home phone bill every > month, from PacBell and AT&T in my case, are incomprehensible to me and > to anybody and everybody that I've ever been able to contact at the > phone companies. When I call and ask, all they say is that they are > required to charge those amounts. I've given up on understanding, it's > all just a tax which I have to pay for phone service. Indeed, most of > the mystery charges seem to be related to taxes and fees imposed by > various government entities - or so the phone companies say. > > In any case, again, the assertion that a simple phone call would clear > up any doubt about phone-bill charges is highly wishful thinking. I > dearly wish it were so! > Paul, Your sentiments and exasperations are mirrored almost exactly in this humourous article. Understanding your phone bill  Do you have to be a rocket scientist or a brain surgeon to figure it out? Address:http://www.msnbc.com/news/405748.asp - -- David Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ End of Telecom Digest V2000 #153 ******************************** Date: 14 Dec 2000 22:40:49 -0500 From: owner-telecom-digest@telecom-digest.org (Telecom Digest) To: telecom-digest@telecom-digest.org Subject: Telecom Digest V2000 #154 Telecom Digest Thursday, December 14 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 154 In this issue: Re: early DTMF, was: Re: Early NPA Assignments [was Pulling the Zero] Re: Pushbutton phones - was Re: early DTMF, was: Re: Early NPA Assignments [was Pulling the Zero] Re: AT&T still charging some people for leasing equipment Re: Pulling the Zero 12/12/00 ICBTollFreeNews.Com HEADS UP HEADLINES 12/13/00 ICBTollFreeNews.Com HEADS UP HEADLINES Re: Pushbutton phones - was Re: early DTMF, was: Re: Early NPA Assignments [was Pulling the Zero] Re: Pulling the Zero AboveNet backbone provider blocking Peacefire site Re: early DTMF, was: Re: Early NPA Assignments [was Pulling the Zero] Re: Pulling the Zero, and higher digits Re: AT&T still charging some people for leasing equipment Re: Pulling the Zero Re: AboveNet backbone provider blocking Peacefire site Re: Pushbutton phones - was Re: early DTMF, was: Re: Early NPA Assignments [was Pulling the Zero] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 14 Dec 2000 08:36:46 -0500 From: Subject: Re: early DTMF, was: Re: Early NPA Assignments [was Pulling the Zero] danny burstein wrote: >>"Although DTMF was made available to the public in 1964 or 1965..." > The, for want of a better term, Big Rollout was at the 1964/1965 World's > Fair in Flushing Meadow Park in NYC. The phones had only ten buttons, > though. Hmm.. now that I think about it, they might have had 11 (the final > one being a special "world's fair operator" button). I was there. I remember very well the exhibit where they encouraged you to try dialling with a standard rotary dial and then the same number with pushbuttons. There was some sort of timer that showed you how much faster it was. I don't recall those phones actually being connected to anything but the timer, there may have been others. > They also displayed Picturephones.. Yes, picturephones. To my 10-year-old self they seemed the inevitable next step. After all, "The Jetsons" had them. They had several working pairs set up so you could try them out. > danny 'still waiting for my flying car' burstein Yeah, me too. The climactic scene of "Men In Black" did bring back some fond memories. - -- ***************************************************************************** * Bill Ranck +1-540-231-3951 ranck@vt.edu * * Virginia Polytechnic Institute & State University, Computing Center * ***************************************************************************** - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 14 Dec 2000 08:46:12 -0500 From: Roy Smith Subject: Re: Pushbutton phones - was Re: early DTMF, was: Re: Early NPA Assignments [was Pulling the Zero] "Gail M. Hall" wrote: > The owner of the company was severely disabled. He had very limited > use of his hands and arms, but he could hold a pen and write with > effort. His phone had a headset and a box with pushbuttons on it > that he could use to "dial" the numbers. The Bell System had a reputation for going to great effort to enable their equipment to work for people with various handicaps. Custom-built devices to allow people without full motor function to place and receive phone calls were, IIRC, provided at no extra charge. Whether this sense of corporate social responsibility grew out of Bell's original work with deaf people, or was a requirement of the government regulatory constraints, I'm not sure. I also suspect it has fallen by the wayside these days. - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 14 Dec 2000 09:56:16 -0500 From: Dominic Richens Subject: Re: AT&T still charging some people for leasing equipment The Old Bear wrote in message news:oldbear.7890.29ED2DB1@arctos.com... [...] > On March 1, AT&T will begin leasing a phone that will dial one of 12 > stored numbers at the touch of a button. The phone has a lighted dial > with buttons that can redial the last number called and place calls on > hold. It also has a control that amplifies the sound in the receiver's > earpiece. The Memory Telephone 410 will lease for $8.85 per month. HAHAHA! In 1988 we had a touch-tone phone with redial and 12 speeddial (RCL+digit) which we got for $10 (Canadian! That's less than $8.85 US!) at one of those "surplus" electronic stores. - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 14 Dec 2000 11:39:16 -0500 From: varney@ihgp2.ih.lucent.com (Al Varney) Subject: Re: Pulling the Zero In article <90o02a$7rr$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, Rod Sladen wrote: >In article <90lmrp$h6d@shell3.shore.net>, > stevek@shell3.shore.net wrote: >> One of my colleagues is a lexicographer for the >> Dictionary of American Regional English, and they are >> examining the use of the word 'pull' with respect to >> rotary phones. They have a single quote that says "You >> don't have to pull the 2 and the 5 on Key West numbers-- >> only the last five numbers." >> >> Does anyone else have this sense of pull? > >The telecom archives at >http://hyperarchive.lcs.mit.edu/telecom- >archives/archives/history/numbering.plans.1950-80 > >shows several instances of the use of the term "pull" relating either >to the actual operation of the dial: >Incidentally, I have not encountered the term "pull" with this meaning >in Btirish usage. I did my "library" thing, and found several articles (in technical literature) with this usage, including one from the British Post Office ("... when the dial is pulled off-normal"). Several articles refer to US patent 597,062 (Aug. 20, 1896), which describes the first telephone "dial" I could find. This was a replacement for the original Strowger "automatic" telephone, which required the caller to push buttons rapidly several times to generate the necessary "impulses" to operate the Strowger step-by-step CO equipment. (The impulses traveled over wires not used for voice -- early push-button phone with out-of-band signaling, y'know?) Anyway, the 1896 dial was a "finger-wheel", a disk mounted vertically with "finger flanges" protruding from the front surface near the edge of the right half of the wheel. The caller places their finger on an appropriate flange (it fit the bottom 1/3 of the finger) and PULLED down to a finger-stop, then released the wheel. The impulses to the switch were generated as the wheel returned to its normal position. "Engineering & Science in the Bell System: The Early Years (1875-1925)", (Library of Congress number 75-31499), page 124 says: ".. rotary member was pulled down to the stop ... and released." A year or so later, the design was changed to a rather lopsided wheel with finger holes (oblong, not circular holes, to exactly fit the finger). The holes were still all on the right-most third of the wheel. And there were 11 holes, the top-most (above the "0") being used to reach "long distance". So, while the literature using the term "pull" might be technical in nature, I think it likely the public would have used "pull" when referring to these older "dials". They were always mounted vertically, and the finger motion was primarily down. "Pull" seems a natural way to describe the operation. I actually saw one of these phones last month while visiting the AGCS labs in Phoenix, AZ. But they wouldn't let me touch it.... AGCS is the off-spring of Automatic Electric, the company formed (in part) from the Strowger manufacturing operation. Their Phoenix site has historical (pre-1900) stuff in display cases all over the place. A working museum? (More at www.agcs.com/about, and die-hard buffs should check out www.singingwires.org) http://www.agcs.com/about/history/photoalbum.htm Another place to see this kind of stuff is the Museum of Independent Telephony in Abilene, Kansas. Al Varney - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 14 Dec 2000 11:26:37 -0600 From: "Judith Oppenheimer" Subject: 12/12/00 ICBTollFreeNews.Com HEADS UP HEADLINES ____________________________________________________ ICBTollFreeNews.Com HEADS UP HEADLINES ____________________________________________________ from ICB Toll Free News - Daily News and Intelligence covering the Political, Legal and Marketing Arenas of 800 and Dot Com. ____________________________________________________ If you have not done so already, please take a moment to complete a two-minute survey: http://www.surveyanywhere.com/SURVEY/1495773391661226 The information from the survey will help us to do a better job for you. Thanks very much for your help. Your Publisher, Judith Oppenheimer ___________________________________________________ CONTENTS - - EUROPEAN COMMISSION PROPOSES REGISTRY TO RUN .EU DOMAIN - - TRADEMARK 1, FREE SPEECH 0 - - TELLME IS TALKIN' SHOPTALK - - REALNAMES GOES FOR BROKE AMID CHINA STANDARDS DISPUTE - - AD AGENCY REVIEW POINTS TO REGISTER.COM PLANS ___________________________________________________ Resellers sought ... ITFS providers needed ... seeking licenced database containing ring tones and logos for mobile phones ... Have you been to http://ICBclassifieds.com lately? ___________________________________________________ CUSTOMER SERVICE NOTES: With over 4,000 articles archived, ICB is a popular research destination. Find all ICB headlines: http://www.icbtollfree.com/icbheadlns.cfm, or use ICB's search engine: http://icbtollfree.com/Search.cfm. Note: Registration is required. Contact information is NOT sold, leased, rented or shared in any manner. _______________notices from our sponsors_______________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://1800TheExpert.com <<<<<<<<<<<<< 800 & Domain Name Acquisition Management, Lost/Stolen 800 # Retrieval, Litigation Support, Regulatory Navigation, Correlating Domain Name & Trademark Matters. ____________________________________________________ EVERY 3.6 SECONDS SOMEONE DIES FROM HUNGER http://www.hungersite.com/ ____________________________________________________ ARTICLE ACCESS CODE LEGEND ICB Toll Free News offers two valuable service options: F = Free - News and Features articles P = Premium - Unlimited Site Access including all Articles and Documents. ____________________________________________________ HEADLINES for December 12, 2000 P - EUROPEAN COMMISSION PROPOSES REGISTRY TO RUN .EU DOMAIN The legal base of the proposal is Article 156 of the Treaty covering Trans European Networks. In particular the Commission would be responsible for developing and adopting policies regarding speculative and abusive registration of names and alternative dispute resolution procedures. CONTINUED HERE: http://www.icbtollfree.com/article.cfm?articleId=4866 F - TRADEMARK 1, FREE SPEECH 0 If a domain name has no communicative value, then on what grounds could a company sue to prevent individuals from registering Web sites that include its name? But the judge^Òs decision may strengthen trademark protections. Removing Web addresses from protected speech prevents individuals from arguing that the terms belong in the public domain for use by anyone. CONTINUED HERE: http://www.icbtollfree.com/article.cfm?articleId=4869 F - TELLME IS TALKIN' SHOPTALK The company has said it aims to provide the infrastructure to develop a sprawling new category of Web-like voice sites, loosely linked in much the same way America Online partner sites are grouped together by keywords under the AOL umbrella. CONTINUED HERE: http://www.icbtollfree.com/article.cfm?articleId=4867 F - REALNAMES GOES FOR BROKE AMID CHINA STANDARDS DISPUTE Despite the fact that RealNames is 10 per cent owned by Verisign, Mr Teare stands on the Chinese government's side over the disputes, attacking the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN) for seeking to put huge registration fees into the pocket of big American companies such as Verisign. Instead of acting ''so disrespectively'', Mr Teare said he would choose to work with mainland partners and take into account cultural traditions and local interests. CONTINUED HERE: http://www.icbtollfree.com/article.cfm?articleId=4865 F - AD AGENCY REVIEW POINTS TO REGISTER.COM PLANS The company is looking for a global advertising campaign that will heighten awareness of its service in the Pacific Rim. 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All rights reserved. ____________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: 14 Dec 2000 11:26:52 -0600 From: "Judith Oppenheimer" Subject: 12/13/00 ICBTollFreeNews.Com HEADS UP HEADLINES ____________________________________________________ ICBTollFreeNews.Com HEADS UP HEADLINES ____________________________________________________ from ICB Toll Free News - Daily News and Intelligence covering the Political, Legal and Marketing Arenas of 800 and Dot Com. ____________________________________________________ If you have not done so already, please take a moment to complete a two-minute survey: http://www.surveyanywhere.com/SURVEY/1495773391661226 The information from the survey will help us to do a better job for you. Thanks very much for your help. Your Publisher, Judith Oppenheimer ___________________________________________________ CONTENTS - - ALLOCATION OPTIONS FOR VANITY FREEPHONE NUMBERS - - NETNATION ALLIES WITH TELEDOMAINS FOR MATCHING 800 NUMBERS - - VERISIGN OFFERS PRE-REGISTRATIONS OF .BIZ & .INFO - - AN OPEN LETTER TO ICANN - - INTELLICOM ADDS TOLL FREE TO ITS UNIFIED MESSAGING - - VIRTUAL BROKER SERVICE - - UDRP: PROTOCOL AND PRECEDENT - - NO CONFUSION HERE - - LOVE THY NEIGHBOR - - ORANGE ADMITS CHARGING FOR FREE CALLS ___________________________________________________ Resellers sought ... ITFS providers needed ... seeking licenced database containing ring tones and logos for mobile phones ... Have you been to http://ICBclassifieds.com lately? ___________________________________________________ CUSTOMER SERVICE NOTES: With over 4,000 articles archived, ICB is a popular research destination. Find all ICB headlines: http://www.icbtollfree.com/icbheadlns.cfm, or use ICB's search engine: http://icbtollfree.com/Search.cfm. Note: Registration is required. Contact information is NOT sold, leased, rented or shared in any manner. _______________notices from our sponsors_______________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://1800TheExpert.com <<<<<<<<<<<<< 800 & Domain Name Acquisition Management, Lost/Stolen 800 # Retrieval, Litigation Support, Regulatory Navigation, Correlating Domain Name & Trademark Matters. ____________________________________________________ EVERY 3.6 SECONDS SOMEONE DIES FROM HUNGER http://www.hungersite.com/ ____________________________________________________ ARTICLE ACCESS CODE LEGEND ICB Toll Free News offers two valuable service options: F = Free - News and Features articles P = Premium - Unlimited Site Access including all Articles and Documents. ____________________________________________________ HEADLINES for December 13, 2000 P - ALLOCATION OPTIONS FOR VANITY FREEPHONE NUMBERS The ACA is considering allocating numbers directly to the businesses that use them, rather than to telecommunications companies. Tony Shaw said that auctioning marketable numbers would reduce the possibility of customers hoarding numbers. 'Auctions would mean that more people have a chance of obtaining these numbers but it may mean they pay a higher price for the privilege,' Mr Shaw said. CONTINUED HERE: http://www.icbtollfree.com/article.cfm?articleId=4875 F - NETNATION ALLIES WITH TELEDOMAINS FOR MATCHING 800 NUMBERS For example, for the new domain name www.DPbrand.com, the Teledomain.com service says it would help clients establish a toll-free telephone number such as 1.800.DPbrand, and/or a toll-free fax number, 1.888.Dpbrand. Unstated, though, is how the mostly depleted 800 and 888 numbers will be acquired. CONTINUED HERE: http://www.icbtollfree.com/article.cfm?articleId=4876 F - VERISIGN OFFERS PRE-REGISTRATIONS OF .BIZ & .INFO Named 'The Domain Update Internet Service,' its 'a way for those interested in the .biz and .info domains to prepare for their expected introduction in early 2001.' CONTINUED HERE: http://www.icbtollfree.com/article.cfm?articleId=4874 F - AN OPEN LETTER TO ICANN .BIZ Duplication Wreaks Havoc in the Name Space ... We have stated many times in many venues, that the operative words are cooperation and respect. The roots have a policy to not duplicate any TLD found in the USG root or other roots which are accessed by the public. They all recognize prior use. By Leah Gallegos. CONTINUED HERE: http://www.icbtollfree.com/article.cfm?articleId=4879 F - INTELLICOM ADDS TOLL FREE TO ITS UNIFIED MESSAGING innoport.com, currently offering service with a 215 area code, is offering a premium service via toll-free number. CONTINUED HERE: http://www.icbtollfree.com/article.cfm?articleId=4873 (HEADLINES CON'T BELOW) _______________notices from our sponsors_______________ Are you a local or regional business that advertises in newspapers, direct mail, on radio or tv? 1 800 BRAND IT shared use marketing programs can help your sales skyrocket! http://www.1800BrandIt.com ____________________________________________________ 800 RATE NEGOTIATION EXPERTISE If your usage contract is coming to an end we can help you get the very best rate from your existing or new vendor. We charge $125 per hour. No fee if you choose a vendor we represent. Telemanagement, Inc. http://www.sdtele.com ____________________________________________________ IS YOUR BUSINESS LISTED? The Internet 800 Directory lists hundreds of thousands of toll free numbers and is viewed by millions each month. 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CONTINUED HERE: http://www.icbtollfree.com/article.cfm?articleId=4878 P - UDRP: PROTOCOL AND PRECEDENT The development of UDRP 'common law' is still in its early stages. Many Panelists, however, do give prior decisions consideration when deciding UDRP cases. CONTINUED HERE: http://www.icbtollfree.com/article.cfm?articleId=4872 P - NO CONFUSION HERE 'The Panel concludes that the domain name was registered and used in bad faith... is confusingly similar to the Complainant^Òs mark ... but Respondent has shown that it has a legitimate interest in the domain name.' CONTINUED HERE: http://www.icbtollfree.com/article.cfm?articleId=4871 P - LOVE THY NEIGHBOR '... this arbitration is not the appropriate forum for the resolution of a trademark infringement suit... One reason for the opening of new top-level domains was to permit more domain names to be available to companies with the same name...' CONTINUED HERE: http://www.icbtollfree.com/article.cfm?articleId=4870 F - ORANGE ADMITS CHARGING FOR FREE CALLS The Joe Network said it would close its Joe0800 freephone Wap service now that all four mobile networks charge for freephone data calls. Rivals BT Cellnet and Vodafone have always charged for 0800 data calls, while One 2 One began charging at the end of August. CONTINUED HERE: http://www.icbtollfree.com/article.cfm?articleId=4877 ____________________________________________________ ABOUT ICB ICB HeadsUp Headlines Daily Email is sent by request. Subscriptions to Daily Email are free to qualified applicants. Visit http://www.icbtollfree.com/reg.cfm?NextURL=Index.cfm to sign up. Please feel free to pass along a copy to a friend, within reason so long as the message is not modified or used unfavorably. To unsubscribe mailto:editor@icbtollfree.com, subject: unsubscribe. ___________________ ADVERTISING INFORMATION ___________________ For information on advertising in ICB HeadsUp Headlines emails, see http://www.icbtollfree.com/ArticleId4415.html ____________________________________________________ Only subscribers or registered users of ICB Toll Free News web site will be able to access all or some of the full text of URLs provided. ____________________________________________________ Copyright © 2000 ICB, Inc. All rights reserved. ____________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: 14 Dec 2000 17:29:12 -0500 From: Wes Leatherock Subject: Re: Pushbutton phones - was Re: early DTMF, was: Re: Early NPA Assignments [was Pulling the Zero] On 14 Dec 2000 08:46:12 -0500 Roy Smith wrote: > "Gail M. Hall" wrote: > > The owner of the company was severely disabled. He had very limited > > use of his hands and arms, but he could hold a pen and write with > > effort. His phone had a headset and a box with pushbuttons on it > > that he could use to "dial" the numbers. > > The Bell System had a reputation for going to great effort to enable > their equipment to work for people with various handicaps. Custom-built > devices to allow people without full motor function to place and receive > phone calls were, IIRC, provided at no extra charge. > > Whether this sense of corporate social responsibility grew out of Bell's > original work with deaf people, or was a requirement of the government > regulatory constraints, I'm not sure. I also suspect it has fallen by > the wayside these days. Years ago I was talking to the long-time wire chief in Bartlesville, Oklahoma, which was (and still is) the headquarters city of the Phillips Petroleum Company. He related that, probably in the 1930s, there was a newspaper story or an item in the Bell Labs Record about the Labs' success in designing a telephone with an amplified receiver. The CEO of Phillips, Frank Phillips, who was partially deaf, asked the wire chief to get him one. The wire chief passed the request up the line, getting only vague responses. He persisted in the request with no cogent response. Frank Phillips suggested it might help if he (Phillips) called Cleo, or whoever was the CEO of AT&T at the time. The wire chief (sorry I can't remember his name) once more urgently passed the request up the line. He got no response, but a few weeks later a brown package arrived addressed to the wire chief from Bell Labs, containing nothing but a telephone and a print. The wire chief could tell it was a hard-of-hearing telephone, and asked area (state) headquarters in Oklahoma City for how to get the business office to write the service order to install it. (It was clear from the print, although there were no instructions, how to hook it up physically.) After two or three weeks with no response, the wire chief took the telephone to Phillips' office and installed it; Phillips was greatly appreciative. The wire chief never heard another word about it, and strongly suspected from the photo Phillips had shown him accompanying the article that the Labs sent the prototype. Wes Leatherock wleath@sandbox.dynip.com - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 14 Dec 2000 17:39:05 -0500 From: Wes Leatherock Subject: Re: Pulling the Zero On 14 Dec 2000 11:39:16 -0500 Al Varney wrote: > I did my "library" thing, and found several articles (in technical > literature) with this usage, including one from the British Post Office > ("... when the dial is pulled off-normal"). > > Several articles refer to US patent 597,062 (Aug. 20, 1896), which > describes the first telephone "dial" I could find. This was a replacement > for the original Strowger "automatic" telephone, which required the > caller to push buttons rapidly several times to generate the necessary > "impulses" to operate the Strowger step-by-step CO equipment. (The > impulses traveled over wires not used for voice -- early push-button > phone with out-of-band signaling, y'know?) > > Anyway, the 1896 dial was a "finger-wheel", a disk mounted vertically > with "finger flanges" protruding from the front surface near the edge of > the right half of the wheel. The caller places their finger on an > appropriate flange (it fit the bottom 1/3 of the finger) and PULLED down > to a finger-stop, then released the wheel. The impulses to the switch > were generated as the wheel returned to its normal position. > > "Engineering & Science in the Bell System: The Early Years (1875-1925)", > (Library of Congress number 75-31499), page 124 says: > > ".. rotary member was pulled down to the stop ... and released." > > A year or so later, the design was changed to a rather lopsided > wheel with finger holes (oblong, not circular holes, to exactly fit > the finger). The holes were still all on the right-most third of the > wheel. And there were 11 holes, the top-most (above the "0") being > used to reach "long distance". > > So, while the literature using the term "pull" might be technical > in nature, I think it likely the public would have used "pull" when > referring to these older "dials". They were always mounted vertically, > and the finger motion was primarily down. "Pull" seems a natural > way to describe the operation. > > I actually saw one of these phones last month while visiting the > AGCS labs in Phoenix, AZ. But they wouldn't let me touch it.... > AGCS is the off-spring of Automatic Electric, the company formed > (in part) from the Strowger manufacturing operation. Their Phoenix > site has historical (pre-1900) stuff in display cases all over the > place. A working museum? (More at www.agcs.com/about, and die-hard > buffs should check out www.singingwires.org) > http://www.agcs.com/about/history/photoalbum.htm > > Another place to see this kind of stuff is the Museum of Independent > Telephony in Abilene, Kansas. > > Al Varney Step-by-step was also called "Strowger" equipment for many years. The first step offices in the Bell System were Automatic Electric equipment, since Western Electric had not stooped to manufacturing such equipment at the time. The Automatic Electric line switches in glass cases in the original part of what became the JAckson office in Oklahoma City were rather fascinating and something otherwise only seen in historical material. Later additions to the office were Western Electric equipment with line finders. We didn't replace the original AE ringing machine (from 1920) until some time in the 1960s...and then because the office had grown to where the original ringing machine couldn't handle the load, not because it had worn out. Wes Leatherock wleath@sandbox.dynip.com - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 14 Dec 2000 20:09:57 -0500 From: Bennett Haselton Subject: AboveNet backbone provider blocking Peacefire site [sent to journalists on Peacefire's press contacts list] We've discovered that a large Internet backbone company, AboveNet -- which routes about 2% of all hits on a typical Web site -- has been blocking their downstream customers from accessing the Peacefire.org Web site for the past four months. AboveNet does not publicize the fact that they block customers' Internet access, and most of the AboveNet users that we talked to, were pissed off when they found out. (Most people affected by the block have never actually heard of AboveNet -- these are users who are customers of smaller local ISP's, which are routed to the rest of the Internet through the AboveNet network.) Many users couldn't believe this when they heard about it, but it's not a joke. We contacted several AboveNet users and verified that they couldn't access our Web site, even though it was up. Finally we called AboveNet and talked to a high-level technician who admitted that, in fact, this was not an accident -- they were intentionally blocking their customers' Web access to sites on the "boycott list". Yesterday, after we began publicizing that AboveNet was doing this, they temporarily stopped blocking customer Web access, so their users can now access our Web site again. AboveNet has not commented on why they did this or what they will do next. AboveNet has apparently joined a boycott of our ISP because of hosted sites such as the following: http://209.211.253.69/ which sell bulk email software. Our ISP has a strict anti-spam policy, and these sites *never* send spam or use spam to advertise. (I think this is analogous to the difference between a site that hosts password-cracking tools, and a person who actually uses these tools to steal someone's password -- there is no movement to boycott sites that host hacking tools, because it's not the software itself that is culpable.) We contacted the Mail Abuse Prevention System, the organizers of the boycott, to ask if they could take the Peacefire site off the list since all we are "guilty" of is sharing the same ISP. They said it was technically possible, but it was their policy not to un-block us unless we joined the boycott by ditching our current service provider. (Since these sites never send spam, don't believe it if AboveNet says they do this to "protect their customers from spam" -- they've never produced any spam originating from these sites, and in any case, blocking customers' Web access has no effect on the amount of spam that they get! It's just a boycott, it has nothing to do with customer protection. Not that AboveNet is currently talking to reporters anyway.) I think there's nothing wrong with boycotts, but they should be done with the *knowing* participation of the people involved. AboveNet, however, has essentially co-opted their downstream customers into the boycott, by telling them that they're getting unfiltered Internet access, but then blocking them from certain Web sites so that when they try to access those sites, it just looks like the server is down. We are advising AboveNet customers that they may be eligible to sue AboveNet for fraud. If you decide to cover this, I have the email address and telephone numbers of several AboveNet customers, who were sufficiently pissed off when they found out their Internet access was being censored, that they agreed to talk to the media about it. I'm also at 425 649 9024 -- and I just got DSL, so you should finally be able to get through on the phone line most of the time :) AboveNet can be reached at (408) 367-6624, although they are still apparently saying "No comment" to reporter inquiries. -Bennett bennett@peacefire.org http://www.peacefire.org (425) 649 9024 - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 14 Dec 2000 21:09:21 -0500 From: "Ed Ellers" Subject: Re: early DTMF, was: Re: Early NPA Assignments [was Pulling the Zero] Danny Burstein wrote: "The, for want of a better term, Big Rollout was at the 1964/1965 World's Fair in Flushing Meadow Park in NYC." True. The Bell System did demonstrate Touch-Tone at the 1962 fair in Seattle -- including the speed test also shown in New York (and later in Chicago at the Museum of Science and Industry). But they wouldn't have had full commercial service then, where in New York they probably had Touch-Tone phones all over the grounds. "The phones had only ten buttons, though. Hmm.. now that I think about it, they might have had 11 (the final one being a special "world's fair operator" button)." On the left or right of the zero? Western Electric made a few 11-button phones with a * key for field tests of Speed Calling and Call Forwarding after the Succasunna, N.J. 1ESS went into service in 1965. "They also displayed Picturephones.." Those also had 11-key Touch-Tone dials, but with the extra key in the # position and labeled V (for video). To place a Picturephone call you would dial V and then the number; dialing the number as usual got you an audio-only connection. By 1967 -- when Bell of Pennsylvania started a customer test of Picturephone at Westinghouse in Pittsburgh -- this had been replaced by 12-button 2500-type sets. - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 14 Dec 2000 21:13:02 -0500 From: "Ed Ellers" Subject: Re: Pulling the Zero, and higher digits Wes Leatherock wrote: "Nope. There was no piece of equipment to generate more than 10 pulses, and selectors and connectors were physical pieces of equipment with 10 levels and 10 contacts per level." In a standard installation, yes. The very first Strowger step-by-step systems used 11 pulses to reach the long distance operator. - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 14 Dec 2000 21:25:16 -0500 From: "Ed Ellers" Subject: Re: AT&T still charging some people for leasing equipment Wes Leatherock wrote: "For a time, and perhaps still, the only place to get a new (refurbished like new) Princess telephone was to lease one from AT&T. They were apparently in much demand and AT&T refused to offer any for sale--only for lease." AT&T started selling new (not reconditioned) Princess phones to the public at the beginning of 1983, through the subsidiary then called American Bell, at the same time that they offered new Traditional, Trimline and complete (not just housing) Design Line phones. I'm not sure exactly when they switched the Princess phones to lease-only. FWIW, the current AT&T leased consumer phones are listed at http://www.att.com/cls/corded.html. $4.95/month lease for a 500 rotary desk set? Heck with that stuff... - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 14 Dec 2000 21:41:37 -0500 From: Linc Madison Subject: Re: Pulling the Zero In article <91at1l$p02@ssbunews.ih.lucent.com>, Al Varney wrote: > ".. rotary member was pulled down to the stop ... and released." > > So, while the literature using the term "pull" might be technical > in nature, I think it likely the public would have used "pull" when > referring to these older "dials". They were always mounted vertically, > and the finger motion was primarily down. "Pull" seems a natural > way to describe the operation. To a point, yes. For instance, "To dial a number, place your finger in the hole corresponding to each successive letter or digit and pull the dial down to the stop." However, the sort of usage that kicked off this thread was things like "to call within Key West, you don't have to pull the 2-5, only the last five digits," is still unusual. In other words, you PULL the dial when you DIAL a number. - -- For faster reply, use Telecom#LincMad*Com, or something similar.... - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 14 Dec 2000 21:52:15 -0500 From: wollman@lcs.mit.edu (Garrett Wollman) Subject: Re: AboveNet backbone provider blocking Peacefire site In article <200012142157.eBELvuA24711@jessica.iain.com>, Bennett Haselton wrote: >AboveNet does not publicize the fact that they block customers' >Internet access, Really? When my organization talked to AboveNet about possibly getting service from them, they were quite clear that they receive and use a BGP feed of the Realtime Blackhole List. This was represented by their representative as a feature. As a supporter of their effort *and methods* to restrain spam, I cannot bring myself to feel in the least bit sorry for you. (Then again, you've always struck me as a bunch of pathetic whiners anyway, so this is hardly surprising.) - -GAWollman (My opinions, not MIT's!) - -- Garrett A. Wollman | O Siem / We are all family / O Siem / We're all the same wollman@lcs.mit.edu | O Siem / The fires of freedom Opinions not those of| Dance in the burning flame MIT, LCS, CRS, or NSA| - Susan Aglukark and Chad Irschick - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 14 Dec 2000 22:40:46 -0500 From: kamlet@infinet.com (Art Kamlet) Subject: Re: Pushbutton phones - was Re: early DTMF, was: Re: Early NPA Assignments [was Pulling the Zero] In article , Gail M. Hall wrote: >On 13 Dec 2000 21:37:51 -0500, in comp.dcom.telecom, you (dannyb@panix.com >(danny burstein)) wrote: > >>In <916i38$30f7s$1@ID-39509.news.dfncis.de> "Ed Ellers" writes: >> >>> wrote: >> >>>"Although DTMF was made available to the public in 1964 or 1965..." >> >>>November 1963, apparently a few days before the assassination of President >>>Kennedy. There had been technical trials as early as 1960 and market trials >>>in 1962. >> >>The, for want of a better term, Big Rollout was at the 1964/1965 World's >>Fair in Flushing Meadow Park in NYC. The phones had only ten buttons, >>though. Hmm.. now that I think about it, they might have had 11 (the final >>one being a special "world's fair operator" button). > >Memories! I remember going into the Bell building at that fair. :-) > >> >>They also displayed Picturephones.. >> > >I've seen those displayed in various places but never saw one actually in >use. > >What I am wondering now is when the first push-button phones came out, not >necessarily tone phones, though. > >The first pushbutton phone I ever saw was at a real estate office sometime >in late 1962 or early 1963, more likely 1962, when we were shopping for our >first house. Long, long after the Edsel brought out pushbutton automatic transmission controls. - -- Art Kamlet Columbus, Ohio kamlet@infinet.com - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ End of Telecom Digest V2000 #154 ******************************** Date: 15 Dec 2000 06:15:16 -0500 From: owner-telecom-digest@telecom-digest.org (Telecom Digest) To: telecom-digest@telecom-digest.org Subject: Telecom Digest V2000 #155 Telecom Digest Friday, December 15 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 155 In this issue: 12/14/00 ICBTollFreeNews.Com HEADS UP HEADLINES Re: Pulling the Zero, and higher digits ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 23:57:18 -0500 From: "Judith Oppenheimer" Subject: 12/14/00 ICBTollFreeNews.Com HEADS UP HEADLINES ____________________________________________________ ICBTollFreeNews.Com HEADS UP HEADLINES ____________________________________________________ from ICB Toll Free News - Daily News and Intelligence covering the Political, Legal and Marketing Arenas of 800 and Dot Com. ____________________________________________________ CONTENTS - - CLASS-ACTION LAWSUIT FILED AGAINST NSI - - MAJORITY OF U.S. HOUSEHOLDS NOW WIRELESS - - PHONE SUBSCRIBERSHIP REPORT RELEASED - - DOT TV DOES EUROPE - - USATODAY UDRP REFUSED - - 1-800-AUTOTOW CLOSES - - WHOIS A TM ENFORCEMENT DOORMAT? 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ICB offers FREE classifieds: http://ICBclassifieds.com. _______________notices from our sponsors_______________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://1800TheExpert.com <<<<<<<<<<<<< 800 & Domain Name Acquisition Management, Lost/Stolen 800 # Retrieval, Litigation Support, Regulatory Navigation, Correlating Domain Name & Trademark Matters. ____________________________________________________ EVERY 3.6 SECONDS SOMEONE DIES FROM HUNGER http://www.hungersite.com/ ____________________________________________________ ARTICLE ACCESS CODE LEGEND ICB Toll Free News offers two valuable service options: F = Free - News and Features articles P = Premium - Unlimited Site Access including all Articles and Documents. ____________________________________________________ HEADLINES for December 14, 2000 P - CLASS-ACTION LAWSUIT FILED AGAINST NSI NSI has a stranglehold over the previously registered and expired domain names and competition in the domain marketplace has been "injured" by the company's actions, according to the suit, filed in the U.S. District Court, Northern District of Alabama, in Birmingham. Aggrieved users have until December 20th to register their complaint, under the tight deadline the court has set for a motion of class certification to be filed. CONTINUED HERE: http://www.icbtollfree.com/article.cfm?articleId=4880 P - MAJORITY OF U.S. HOUSEHOLDS NOW WIRELESS For the first time a majority of U.S. households has at least one mobile phone, according to a study released on Tuesday. CONTINUED HERE: http://www.icbtollfree.com/article.cfm?articleId=4886 F - PHONE SUBSCRIBERSHIP REPORT RELEASED The report presents subscribership statistics based on the Current Population Survey (CPS) conducted by the Census Bureau in July 2000. CONTINUED HERE: http://www.icbtollfree.com/article.cfm?articleId=4885 F - DOT TV DOES EUROPE ... predicts that its growth in Europe will eclipse that of its US operations by the end of 2001. CONTINUED HERE: http://www.icbtollfree.com/article.cfm?articleId=4884 P - USATODAY UDRP REFUSED Complainant alleges mark ownership, but the record shows otherwise ... complainant alleges use under license but offers no proof. CONTINUED HERE: http://www.icbtollfree.com/article.cfm?articleId=4883 F - 1-800-AUTOTOW CLOSES ... proceeds to liquidate non-performing subsidiaries; director resigns. CONTINUED HERE: http://www.icbtollfree.com/article.cfm?articleId=4882 P - WHOIS A TM ENFORCEMENT DOORMAT? IETF HOLDS WHOIS MEETING WHOIS standardization would be a boon to large companies that own hundreds of domain names by making it easier to monitor the use of their trademarks globally across the Internet. VeriSign has developed a WHOIS prototype using Lightweight Directory Access Protocol (LDAP) ... "With the access controls built into LDAP, you can authenticate various classes of users and allow more privileged classes of users to see things that others can't." CONTINUED HERE: http://www.icbtollfree.com/article.cfm?articleId=4881 _______________notices from our sponsors_______________ Are you a local or regional business that advertises in newspapers, direct mail, on radio or tv? 1 800 BRAND IT shared use marketing programs can help your sales skyrocket! http://www.1800BrandIt.com ____________________________________________________ 800 RATE NEGOTIATION EXPERTISE If your usage contract is coming to an end we can help you get the very best rate from your existing or new vendor. We charge $125 per hour. No fee if you choose a vendor we represent. Telemanagement, Inc. http://www.sdtele.com ____________________________________________________ IS YOUR BUSINESS LISTED? The Internet 800 Directory lists hundreds of thousands of toll free numbers and is viewed by millions each month. The Internet 800 Directory will list ANY business with a toll free number, regardless of long distance carrier, for free and was the first to do so. 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To unsubscribe mailto:editor@icbtollfree.com, subject: unsubscribe. ___________________ ADVERTISING INFORMATION ___________________ For information on advertising in ICB HeadsUp Headlines emails, see http://www.icbtollfree.com/ArticleId4415.html ____________________________________________________ Only subscribers or registered users of ICB Toll Free News web site will be able to access all or some of the full text of URLs provided. ____________________________________________________ Copyright © 2000 ICB, Inc. All rights reserved. ____________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: 15 Dec 2000 05:10:22 -0500 From: jay@west.net (Jay Hennigan) Subject: Re: Pulling the Zero, and higher digits On 12 Dec 2000 21:58:56 -0500, Wes Leatherock wrote: : : Nope. There was no piece of equipment to generate more than :10 pulses, and selectors and connectors were physical pieces of :equipment with 10 levels and 10 contacts per level. Yep. Not sure what the significance, but I have an Automatic Electric butt-set with an 11-hole dial. The AE dials typically have a much longer "pull" for a 1 than a WEco dial. AE dials have the fingerstop at about the 5 o'clock position, with a wider blank area between the "1" hole and the stop than a WEco dial. I believe this design is for a longer dwell after the last pulse for "SATT" grounding pulses used on party lines, or perhaps to force a longer inter-digit time. This particular dial has an extra hole in the "less-than-1" space, and is mechanically set up so that this hole is the "1" and sends a single pulse. The dial is imprinted with 1 through 0 as usual, offset for the extra hole. There is a large black letter "A" in the position that gives 11 pulses. I don't think I was ever able to ever produce any "interesting" results using it on conventional lines, and typically would get a reorder when sending 11-pulse digits. I'm not sure of its exact purpose, but it's the only one I've ever seen, and only on an item designed as test equipment as opposed to for general use. I'd say it's about 1950s vintage, big metal cast-aluminum butt-set with a full-size dial. For other examples of strange rotary dials, check out a New Zealand phone. Only ten holes, but numbered in the opposite direction. Doing *that* conversion electromechanically must have been fun if they had IDDD in the early days. - -- Jay Hennigan - Network Administration - jay@west.net NetLojix Communications, Inc. NASDAQ: NETX - http://www.netlojix.com/ WestNet: Connecting you to the planet. 805 884-6323 - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ End of Telecom Digest V2000 #155 ******************************** Date: 16 Dec 2000 01:23:25 -0500 From: owner-telecom-digest@telecom-digest.org (Telecom Digest) To: telecom-digest@telecom-digest.org Subject: Telecom Digest V2000 #156 Telecom Digest Saturday, December 16 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 156 In this issue: Re: AboveNet backbone provider blocking Peacefire site Re: AboveNet backbone provider blocking Peacefire site Re: Pushbutton phones - was Re: early DTMF, was: Re: Early NPA Assignments [was Pulling the Zero] Re: Pulling the Zero, and higher digits Re: Pushbutton phones - was Re: early DTMF, was: Re: Early NPA Assignments [was Pulling the Zero] Re: AboveNet backbone provider blocking Peacefire site I think I will create the TSFPWW Re: AboveNet backbone provider blocking Peacefire site 12/15/00 ICBTollFreeNews.Com HEADS UP HEADLINES Re: AboveNet backbone provider blocking Peacefire site Re: AboveNet backbone provider blocking Peacefire site Re: I think I will create the TSFPWW Re: I think I will create the TSFPWW Re: AboveNet backbone provider blocking Peacefire site Re: AboveNet backbone provider blocking Peacefire site Re: Early NPA Assignments Re: AboveNet backbone provider blocking Peacefire site Re: AboveNet backbone provider blocking Peacefire site Re: AboveNet backbone provider blocking Peacefire site Re: AboveNet backbone provider blocking Peacefire site ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 15 Dec 2000 08:41:01 -0500 From: Jim Rusling Subject: Re: AboveNet backbone provider blocking Peacefire site Bennett Haselton wrote: >[sent to journalists on Peacefire's press contacts list] > >We've discovered that a large Internet backbone company, AboveNet -- which >routes about 2% of all hits on a typical Web site -- has been blocking >their downstream customers from accessing the Peacefire.org Web site for >the past four months. AboveNet does not publicize the fact that they block >customers' Internet access, and most of the AboveNet users that we talked >to, were pissed off when they found out. (Most people affected by the >block have never actually heard of AboveNet -- these are users who are >customers of smaller local ISP's, which are routed to the rest of the >Internet through the AboveNet network.) > >Many users couldn't believe this when they heard about it, but it's not a >joke. We contacted several AboveNet users and verified that they couldn't >access our Web site, even though it was up. Finally we called AboveNet and >talked to a high-level technician who admitted that, in fact, this was not >an accident -- they were intentionally blocking their customers' Web access >to sites on the "boycott list". > >Yesterday, after we began publicizing that AboveNet was doing this, they >temporarily stopped blocking customer Web access, so their users can now >access our Web site again. AboveNet has not commented on why they did this >or what they will do next. > >AboveNet has apparently joined a boycott of our ISP because of hosted sites >such as the following: > http://209.211.253.69/ >which sell bulk email software. Our ISP has a strict anti-spam policy, and >these sites *never* send spam or use spam to advertise. (I think this is >analogous to the difference between a site that hosts password-cracking >tools, and a person who actually uses these tools to steal someone's >password -- there is no movement to boycott sites that host hacking tools, >because it's not the software itself that is culpable.) We contacted the >Mail Abuse Prevention System, the organizers of the boycott, to ask if they >could take the Peacefire site off the list since all we are "guilty" of is >sharing the same ISP. They said it was technically possible, but it was >their policy not to un-block us unless we joined the boycott by ditching >our current service provider. > >(Since these sites never send spam, don't believe it if AboveNet says they >do this to "protect their customers from spam" -- they've never produced >any spam originating from these sites, and in any case, blocking customers' >Web access has no effect on the amount of spam that they get! It's just a >boycott, it has nothing to do with customer protection. Not that AboveNet >is currently talking to reporters anyway.) > >I think there's nothing wrong with boycotts, but they should be done with >the *knowing* participation of the people involved. AboveNet, however, has >essentially co-opted their downstream customers into the boycott, by >telling them that they're getting unfiltered Internet access, but then >blocking them from certain Web sites so that when they try to access those >sites, it just looks like the server is down. We are advising AboveNet >customers that they may be eligible to sue AboveNet for fraud. > >If you decide to cover this, I have the email address and telephone numbers >of several AboveNet customers, who were sufficiently pissed off when they >found out their Internet access was being censored, that they agreed to >talk to the media about it. I'm also at 425 649 9024 -- and I just got >DSL, so you should finally be able to get through on the phone line most of >the time :) AboveNet can be reached at (408) 367-6624, although they are >still apparently saying "No comment" to reporter inquiries. > > -Bennett > >bennett@peacefire.org http://www.peacefire.org >(425) 649 9024 Quit selling spamware and then ask the RBL team to delist your IP address. It is really quite easy. I wish my ISP used the RBL. - -- Jim Rusling Now retired full time Mustang, OK http://jrusling.home.mindspring.com - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 15 Dec 2000 08:43:21 -0500 From: "John B. Hines" Subject: Re: AboveNet backbone provider blocking Peacefire site wollman@lcs.mit.edu (Garrett Wollman) wrote: >In article <200012142157.eBELvuA24711@jessica.iain.com>, >Bennett Haselton wrote: > >>AboveNet does not publicize the fact that they block customers' >>Internet access, > >Really? When my organization talked to AboveNet about possibly >getting service from them, they were quite clear that they receive and >use a BGP feed of the Realtime Blackhole List. This was represented >by their representative as a feature. They haven't been clear, in that they block all access, and not just email blocking. Abovenet has put an ISP into a blackhole, because one of their customers is a spammer, and they included ALL the other customers of that ISP, whether or not they are spammers. I'm not arguing pro/con, just that they (abovenet and the ISP) need better disclosure of what they are doing. The idea that I as a customer, have to check what the other customers of an ISP, to see what their business model is, that is going to be a problem, with legal and other implications. - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 15 Dec 2000 10:02:44 -0500 From: Wes Leatherock Subject: Re: Pushbutton phones - was Re: early DTMF, was: Re: Early NPA Assignments [was Pulling the Zero] On 14 Dec 2000 22:40:46 -0500 Art Kamlet wrote: [Somebody, I think Gail M. Hall , wrote:] > >What I am wondering now is when the first push-button phones came out, not > >necessarily tone phones, though. > > > >The first pushbutton phone I ever saw was at a real estate office sometime > >in late 1962 or early 1963, more likely 1962, when we were shopping for our > >first house. > > Long, long after the Edsel brought out pushbutton automatic > transmission controls. > -- > Art Kamlet Columbus, Ohio kamlet@infinet.com Did the Edsel controls include an oscillator (or two oscillators)? It was only after (a number of years after) Touch-Tone phones came out that someone thought of creating a dial pulse generator in a telephone that would be controlled by push buttons. Wes Leatherock wleath@sandbox.dynip.com - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 15 Dec 2000 11:22:08 -0500 From: Chris Williams Subject: Re: Pulling the Zero, and higher digits Jay Hennigan wrote: > > On 12 Dec 2000 21:58:56 -0500, Wes Leatherock wrote: > : > : Nope. There was no piece of equipment to generate more than > :10 pulses, and selectors and connectors were physical pieces of > :equipment with 10 levels and 10 contacts per level. > > Yep. Not sure what the significance, but I have an Automatic Electric > butt-set with an 11-hole dial. The AE dials typically have a much longer > "pull" for a 1 than a WEco dial. AE dials have the fingerstop at about > the 5 o'clock position, with a wider blank area between the "1" hole > and the stop than a WEco dial. I believe this design is for a longer > dwell after the last pulse for "SATT" grounding pulses used on party lines, > or perhaps to force a longer inter-digit time. This particular dial has > an extra hole in the "less-than-1" space, and is mechanically set up so > that this hole is the "1" and sends a single pulse. > > The dial is imprinted with 1 through 0 as usual, offset for the extra hole. > There is a large black letter "A" in the position that gives 11 pulses. > I don't think I was ever able to ever produce any "interesting" results using > it on conventional lines, and typically would get a reorder when sending > 11-pulse digits. > > I'm not sure of its exact purpose, but it's the only one I've ever seen, > and only on an item designed as test equipment as opposed to for general > use. I'd say it's about 1950s vintage, big metal cast-aluminum butt-set > with a full-size dial. I can remember back about 1960 in one of those "army surplus" stores in the Los Angeles area coming across boxes of old telephones with 11-hole dials. IIRC the 11th hole was marked with an "A". At the time the phones seemed to have a very unusual shape. If my memory hasn't totally failed they were mostly Kellogg "Ashtray" phones. > For other examples of strange rotary dials, check out a New Zealand phone. > Only ten holes, but numbered in the opposite direction. Doing *that* > conversion electromechanically must have been fun if they had IDDD in the > early days. In 1985 while staying in Christchurch we had one of those dial phones in our hotel room. All the other phones we had encountered in New Zealand were touch-tone by then. It was so interesting I took a picture. I'll have to dig it out so people won't think we're crazy. Chris - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 15 Dec 2000 15:54:22 -0500 From: kamlet@infinet.com (Art Kamlet) Subject: Re: Pushbutton phones - was Re: early DTMF, was: Re: Early NPA Assignments [was Pulling the Zero] In article , Wes Leatherock wrote: > >On 14 Dec 2000 22:40:46 -0500 Art Kamlet wrote: > > [Somebody, I think Gail M. Hall , wrote:] > >> >What I am wondering now is when the first push-button phones came out, not >> >necessarily tone phones, though. >> > >> >The first pushbutton phone I ever saw was at a real estate office sometime >> >in late 1962 or early 1963, more likely 1962, when we were shopping for our >> >first house. >> >> Long, long after the Edsel brought out pushbutton automatic >> transmission controls. >> -- >> Art Kamlet Columbus, Ohio kamlet@infinet.com > > Did the Edsel controls include an oscillator (or two >oscillators)? > > It was only after (a number of years after) Touch-Tone >phones came out that someone thought of creating a dial >pulse generator in a telephone that would be controlled by >push buttons. I am pretty darn certain that the Ford Technical Journal never published the secret behind the Edsel Pushbutton controls :^) - -- Art Kamlet Columbus, Ohio kamlet@infinet.com - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 15 Dec 2000 16:33:47 -0500 From: Joel B Levin Subject: Re: AboveNet backbone provider blocking Peacefire site In , Jim Rusling wrote: }Bennett Haselton wrote: Bennett's complaint snipped }Quit selling spamware and then ask the RBL team to delist your IP }address. It is really quite easy. I wish my ISP used the RBL. Bennett's not selling spamware. His provider has other customers who do, in violation of above.net's AUP, and they refuse to do anything about it (rather like a landlord who rents shops to those who fence stolen property and is happy to continue collecting the rent). He is an innocent victim, in the same sense that law enforcement somehow shutting down the building with the fences' shops can also affect, say, an action committee who has done nothing more serious than rent an office from the same landlord. There is reason for him to seriously consider voting with his feet rather than continue to depend on a supporter of spam services for access; though he could also try to see if he couldn't persuade MAPS to remove his host(s) from the blacklist. Should the provider cease to violate the AUP of above.net, I expect they would happily support removing them from the RBL or begin passing traffic for that provider regardless of the RBL. /JBL - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 15 Dec 2000 16:59:55 -0500 From: hudsonl@skypoint.com (Hudson Leighton) Subject: I think I will create the TSFPWW I think I will create the TSFPWW What is "TSFPWW" you ask? It is "The Society For The Prevention of Wall Warts" What is a "Wall Wart" you ask? It's that black cube that is the power supply for your modem, router, telephone, caculator, etc., etc., etc. Today I installed a new phone, in doing so I had to disturb that pile in the corner I joking call the "Hub Room" When I got done untangling the mess, I found I had 14 Wall Warts plugged into various extention cords, power strips, cube taps. A couple of which were not being used because I had removed other equipment and at the time had not had the courage to dive in to the pile and remove the wall wart. There has to be a better way to power all our toys. A friend who works in tech support for a large retailer reports that in a commercial building the various vibrations will cause a wall wart to work it's self out of a wall outlet and fall to the floor. One of the 1st things he does when visiting a equipment rooms is to push all the wall warts back into their outlets. If you counted up all the wall warts that that just sit there getting hot with the equipment turned off, you could proably cancel the California power alerts. - -Hudson - -- http://www.skypoint.com/~hudsonl - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 15 Dec 2000 17:25:28 -0500 From: wollman@lcs.mit.edu (Garrett Wollman) Subject: Re: AboveNet backbone provider blocking Peacefire site In article <7b7k3tk0d3jdi2pq2trf116o1suqvpqr2m@4ax.com>, John B. Hines wrote: >>[I wrote:] >>[T]hey were quite clear that they receive and use a BGP feed of the >>Realtime Blackhole List. >They haven't been clear, in that they block all access, and not just >email blocking. No, to the contrary, they were *quite* clear, as I indicated in the paragraph you quoted. (This should not come as a surprise to anyone; MAPS founder Paul Vixie is CTO of AboveNet's parent company, MFNX.) Now, if some ISP who uses AboveNet's backbone service was not honest with their customers about this, that's regrettable, but should be resolved between those entities. (I will note that MAPS requires those using the RBL to inform their customers that they are doing so.) - -GAWollman - -- Garrett A. Wollman | O Siem / We are all family / O Siem / We're all the same wollman@lcs.mit.edu | O Siem / The fires of freedom Opinions not those of| Dance in the burning flame MIT, LCS, CRS, or NSA| - Susan Aglukark and Chad Irschick - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. 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This was represented > by their representative as a feature. The RBL is supposed to be used only to block incoming mail messages, not outgoing web access. And an ISP that respects its users would leave it up to each user whether to turn on even that blocking. - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 15 Dec 2000 18:22:42 -0500 From: dehoog@nifty.com Subject: Re: AboveNet backbone provider blocking Peacefire site John David Galt wrote... >The RBL is supposed to be used only to block incoming mail messages, >not outgoing web access. And an ISP that respects its users would >leave it up to each user whether to turn on even that blocking. Absolutely. Being agressively anti-SPAM is one thing, but above all a provider should be a neutral agent in these matters, serving the legitimate needs of its customers. Blocking sites arbitrarily goes strongly against the Internet spirit and should be discouraged strongly. - -- John De Hoog dehoog@nifty.com http://dehoog.org - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 15 Dec 2000 18:48:17 -0500 From: scs@eskimo.com (Steve Summit) Subject: Re: I think I will create the TSFPWW Hudson Leighton wrote: > I think I will create the TSFPWW > What is "TSFPWW" you ask? > It is "The Society For The Prevention of Wall Warts" > What is a "Wall Wart" you ask? > It's that black cube that is the power supply for your modem, router, > telephone, caculator, etc., etc., etc. > > Today I installed a new phone, in doing so I had to disturb that pile > in the corner I joking call the "Hub Room" > When I got done untangling the mess, I found I had 14 Wall Warts > plugged into various extention cords, power strips, cube taps. I don't have it quite that bad, but you're right, the situation is completely out of hand. (The only saving grace is that power strip manufacturers have recognized the problem, and are starting to come out with models designed to allow multiple "Wall Warts" to be plugged in without blocking half the other outlets.) The industry desperately needs to standardize on one voltage for these things (I'd suggest 12 volts, AC; rectifiers are cheap, and using AC avoids polarity problems) and also one standard connector for the standard voltage. Then, someone can come out with "power strips" which contain one transformer and multiple low-voltage outlets that you can plug all your little low-power devices into. Wouldn't that be nice? (If this is a brand-new idea, I hereby offer it into the public domain, and hope that this message to the Digest serves as a viable "anti-patent".) Steve Summit scs@eskimo.com - -- Programming Challenge #6: Don't just fix the bug. See http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/challenge/. - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 15 Dec 2000 19:56:10 -0500 From: "Chris Ornellas" Subject: Re: I think I will create the TSFPWW There are manufacturers out there that make rack mounted powers strip specially designed to accommodate wall warts. They also have some special straps that use a thumb screw to secure a bent piece of metal to hold the wall wart in place. There are also power strips that can be wall mounted or laid on the floor that have the outlets spaced so as to accommodate the wall warts so there are no unused receptacles. the latter can be purchased at your local Wal Mart. You can email me directly if you want the manufacturers of the rack mounted power strips. I can't remember the names right now but I will look them up if your interested. cnkornellas@irtc.net "Hudson Leighton" wrote in message news:hudsonl-ya02408000R1512001559400001@news.skypoint.com... > I think I will create the TSFPWW > > What is "TSFPWW" you ask? > > It is "The Society For The Prevention of Wall Warts" > > What is a "Wall Wart" you ask? > > It's that black cube that is the power supply for your modem, router, > telephone, caculator, etc., etc., etc. > > Today I installed a new phone, in doing so I had to disturb that pile > in the corner I joking call the "Hub Room" > > When I got done untangling the mess, I found I had 14 Wall Warts > plugged into various extention cords, power strips, cube taps. > > A couple of which were not being used because I had removed other > equipment and at the time had not had the courage to dive in to > the pile and remove the wall wart. > > There has to be a better way to power all our toys. > > A friend who works in tech support for a large retailer reports that in a > commercial building the various vibrations will cause a wall wart to work > it's self out of a wall outlet and fall to the floor. One of the 1st things he > does when visiting a equipment rooms is to push all the wall warts back > into their outlets. > > If you counted up all the wall warts that that just sit there getting hot > with the equipment turned off, you could proably cancel the California > power alerts. > > -Hudson > > -- > http://www.skypoint.com/~hudsonl > -- > The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail > messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 15 Dec 2000 22:54:50 -0500 From: scs@eskimo.com (Steve Summit) Subject: Re: AboveNet backbone provider blocking Peacefire site It's a complicated question. On the one hand, merely blocking spammers from sending their spam ends up being an eternal, unwinnable game of whack-a-mole. Since spammers never read their own e-mail, nor depend on it for any positive responses they might receive from one of their missives, it's arguably the case that the only way to shut them down is to block the channels they *do* rely on for responses, e.g. web pages. On the other hand, shutting down web sites for this reason is a risky game of coercive censorship, and many people don't like it, no matter how much they dislike spam. (Me, though there are no qualifications to my dislike of spam, if I were to subscribe to something like the RBL, I'd want the addresses blocked to be only those guilty of the primary offense of carrying actual spam.) On the third hand, though (and here's some telecom relevance), there is some precedent in the real world for shutting down a web site because of the way it's promoted. I've heard (on what I remember being reasonably good authority) that, once upon a time, at least, a telco could require a radio station to conduct call-in contests only in accordance with certain guidelines and in cooperation with the telco, or stated another way, that the telco could prohibit (under threat, presumably, of disconnection of service) indiscriminate contests. I haven't been able to confirm this story (despite having asked about it here a while back), but the analogy with the net is clear: indiscriminate radio station call-in contests were prohibited because the resulting highly bursty and abnormal calling patterns were a threat to the stability of the telephone network, and spam-promoted websites can arguably be called a threat because of the deleterious effects of spam on the network. Steve Summit scs@eskimo.com - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 15 Dec 2000 23:55:47 -0500 From: tbetz@panix.com (Tom Betz) Subject: Re: AboveNet backbone provider blocking Peacefire site [ posted and mailed ] Quoth Bennett Haselton in <200012142157.eBELvuA24711@jessica.iain.com>: |[sent to journalists on Peacefire's press contacts list] | |We've discovered that a large Internet backbone company, AboveNet -- which |routes about 2% of all hits on a typical Web site -- has been blocking |their downstream customers from accessing the Peacefire.org Web site for |the past four months. Bennett, you are being used as a PR pawn by Media3. They stuck you in the middled of a Class C block otherwise reserved for their spammer and spam-software vendors, most of whom were moved into that block after having been put on the RBL when they were in a different block. Media3 knew exactly what they were doing when they put Peacfire.org there. By the way, did you know that your e-mail is being censored by Media3? They are certainly blocking e-mail from the domain spamhaus.org. Steve Linford, who operates spamhaus.org, tried to e-mail you an explanation of what Media3 is doing, and it bounced: >> ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- >> bennett@peacefire.org >> (reason: 550 ... Access denied) >> >> ----- Transcript of session follows ----- >> ... while talking to peacefire.org.: >> >>> MAIL From: SIZE=3369 >> <<< 550 ... Access denied Of course, the MX for peacefire.org is acctually ss3.media3.net. If you are wise, you'll change hosting services pronto. Media3 are playing despicable games with you for their own sleazy ends. - -- |I always wanted to be someone,| Tom Betz, Generalist | |but now I think I should have | Want to send me email? FIRST, READ THIS PAGE: | |been a wee bit more specific. | | | "Fuck NANAE." -- Paul Vixie | YO! MY EMAIL ADDRESS IS HEAVILY SPAM-ARMORED! | - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 16 Dec 2000 00:18:10 -0500 From: Gary Novosielski Subject: Re: Early NPA Assignments On 11 Dec 2000 21:01:01 (-0500) Wes Leatherock wrote: > 201 is not the lowest area code. These were assigned in >the days of rotary dials, and zero was 10 pulses, not zero >pulses. Although the dial pulses did figure into the assignment of codes correlated to traffic, area codes have always been listed in numerical order, and 201 did, and still does top the list as the "lowest" number. Legend has it (and I have no reason to doubt) that the 201 area code was assigned here for "vanity" purposes. At the time of the assignments, Bell Labs in Holmdel, NJ was located in the 201 NPA (but has since been split out of it). This was in line with an existing New Jersey custom (that continues to this day) of reserving low auto license plate numbers for politically connected types. There was the equivalent of an area code shortage when the state government changed hands from one party to another and a mass demand for new "low plates" suddenly occurred. The "problem" was solved by revising the license place numbering plan. Sound familiar? It could be argued that the "lowest" telephone number in the world is located somewhere in Jersey City, NJ., if you accept the following definition of "low": The lowest Country Code is +1: USA The lowest US NPA is 201: NJ The lowest NXX code in 201 is 200: Jersey City Presumably, if someone in Jersey City has the number +1.201.200.0001 that could be considered to be the lowest number in the world, and a real vanity coup! I wonder if he or she knows. "But," I hear you cry, "on a rotary dial, that would be 67 pulses!" True, but this is a DTMF age. =Gary - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 16 Dec 2000 00:23:22 -0500 From: tbetz@panix.com (Tom Betz) Subject: Re: AboveNet backbone provider blocking Peacefire site Quoth John David Galt in <3A3AA56D.65322711@diogenes.sacramento.ca.us>: |Garrett Wollman wrote: | |> Really? When my organization talked to AboveNet about possibly |> getting service from them, they were quite clear that they receive and |> use a BGP feed of the Realtime Blackhole List. This was represented |> by their representative as a feature. | |The RBL is supposed to be used only to block incoming mail messages, |not outgoing web access. On the contrary, the original use of the RBL was as a BGP feed that blackholes ALL packets from the listed sources. It is still widely used in that way. - -- |I always wanted to be someone,| Tom Betz, Generalist | |but now I think I should have | Want to send me email? FIRST, READ THIS PAGE: | |been a wee bit more specific. | | | "Fuck NANAE." -- Paul Vixie | YO! MY EMAIL ADDRESS IS HEAVILY SPAM-ARMORED! | - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 16 Dec 2000 01:09:02 -0500 From: sjsobol@NorthShoreTechnologies.net (Steve Sobol) Subject: Re: AboveNet backbone provider blocking Peacefire site >From 'John David Galt': >Garrett Wollman wrote: > >> Really? When my organization talked to AboveNet about possibly >> getting service from them, they were quite clear that they receive and >> use a BGP feed of the Realtime Blackhole List. This was represented >> by their representative as a feature. > >The RBL is supposed to be used only to block incoming mail messages, >not outgoing web access. What is blocked is entirely up to the ISP. It's their bandwidth, their servers, etc. - -- Steve Sobol, BOFH, President 888.480.4NET 866.DSL.EXPRESS 216.619.2NET North Shore Technologies Corporation http://NorthShoreTechnologies.net JustTheNet/JustTheNet EXPRESS DSL (ISP Services) http://JustThe.net mailto:sjsobol@NorthShoreTechnologies.net Proud resident of Cleveland, OH - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 16 Dec 2000 01:10:17 -0500 From: sjsobol@NorthShoreTechnologies.net (Steve Sobol) Subject: Re: AboveNet backbone provider blocking Peacefire site >From 'dehoog@nifty.com': >John David Galt wrote... > >>The RBL is supposed to be used only to block incoming mail messages, >>not outgoing web access. And an ISP that respects its users would >>leave it up to each user whether to turn on even that blocking. > >Absolutely. Being agressively anti-SPAM is one thing, but above all a provider >should be a neutral agent in these matters, serving the legitimate needs of >its customers. Blocking sites arbitrarily goes strongly against the Internet >spirit and should be discouraged strongly. Unless, of course, the customers want the blocking to be done, which (in many cases) is the case. - -- Steve Sobol, BOFH, President 888.480.4NET 866.DSL.EXPRESS 216.619.2NET North Shore Technologies Corporation http://NorthShoreTechnologies.net JustTheNet/JustTheNet EXPRESS DSL (ISP Services) http://JustThe.net mailto:sjsobol@NorthShoreTechnologies.net Proud resident of Cleveland, OH - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 16 Dec 2000 01:23:22 -0500 From: sjsobol@NorthShoreTechnologies.net (Steve Sobol) Subject: Re: AboveNet backbone provider blocking Peacefire site >From 'Tom Betz': > >[ posted and mailed ] > >Quoth Bennett Haselton in <200012142157.eBELvuA24711@jessica.iain.com>: >|[sent to journalists on Peacefire's press contacts list] >| >|We've discovered that a large Internet backbone company, AboveNet -- which >|routes about 2% of all hits on a typical Web site -- has been blocking >|their downstream customers from accessing the Peacefire.org Web site for >|the past four months. > >Bennett, you are being used as a PR pawn by Media3. They stuck you in >the middled of a Class C block otherwise reserved for their spammer >and spam-software vendors, most of whom were moved into that block >after having been put on the RBL when they were in a different block. I'll make this offer, then. Host the site here. I will not ask for any money, nor will I even ask you to put my name or a link to my websites. I don't care if anyone knows I'm hosting you - I don't care about the publicity. I am offering to do this as a favor to someone I think performs a very vital service to the community at large. Media3 sucks. An abnormally large number of sites they host are designed to promote tools used to abuse the Internet. They deserve to be RBL'd. - -- Steve Sobol, BOFH, President 888.480.4NET 866.DSL.EXPRESS 216.619.2NET North Shore Technologies Corporation http://NorthShoreTechnologies.net JustTheNet/JustTheNet EXPRESS DSL (ISP Services) http://JustThe.net mailto:sjsobol@NorthShoreTechnologies.net Proud resident of Cleveland, OH - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ End of Telecom Digest V2000 #156 ******************************** Date: 16 Dec 2000 06:15:09 -0500 From: owner-telecom-digest@telecom-digest.org (Telecom Digest) To: telecom-digest@telecom-digest.org Subject: Telecom Digest V2000 #157 Telecom Digest Saturday, December 16 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 157 In this issue: Re: I think I will create the TSFPWW ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 16 Dec 2000 03:07:23 -0500 From: hudsonl@skypoint.com (Hudson Leighton) Subject: Re: I think I will create the TSFPWW In article <200012152342.PAA13303@mail.eskimo.com>, scs@eskimo.com wrote: > > The industry desperately needs to standardize on one voltage for > these things (I'd suggest 12 volts, AC; rectifiers are cheap, > and using AC avoids polarity problems) and also one standard > connector for the standard voltage. Then, someone can come out > with "power strips" which contain one transformer and multiple > low-voltage outlets that you can plug all your little low-power > devices into. Wouldn't that be nice? > > (If this is a brand-new idea, I hereby offer it into the public > domain, and hope that this message to the Digest serves as a > viable "anti-patent".) > > Steve Summit > scs@eskimo.com A major coup would be the same low-voltage connector on a wall wart, every looked at the collection of plugs on a Radio Shack "universal" wall wart. It used to that the wall wart and device had the same manfacturers name on them, now days the wall wart is labeled for the XYZ wall wart co. And you are out of luck if the wall wart and the device get seperated. I know put my own sticky label on a wall wart as soon as I take it out of the box so I have a ghost of a chance of keeping it with the correct device. - -Hudson BTW: does anybody know where I can get a "mil-spec" cigarette lighter plug. - -- http://www.skypoint.com/~hudsonl - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ End of Telecom Digest V2000 #157 ******************************** Date: 17 Dec 2000 06:15:13 -0500 From: owner-telecom-digest@telecom-digest.org (Telecom Digest) To: telecom-digest@telecom-digest.org Subject: Telecom Digest V2000 #158 Telecom Digest Sunday, December 17 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 158 In this issue: Re: I think I will create the TSFPWW Re: I think I will create the TSFPWW Re: Early NPA Assignments Subject: Re: Pulling the Zero, and higher digits Re: AboveNet backbone provider blocking Peacefire site Re: AboveNet backbone provider blocking Peacefire site power supplies, was: Re: I think I will create the TSFPWW Re: AboveNet backbone provider blocking Peacefire site Re: AboveNet backbone provider blocking Peacefire site Re: I think I will create the TSFPWW Re: AboveNet backbone provider blocking Peacefire site New area code for NY, PacBell gives faulty error message Re: Subject: Re: Pulling the Zero, and higher digits Re: New area code for NY, PacBell gives faulty error message Re: power supplies, was: Re: I think I will create the TSFPWW Re: Early NPA Assignments AUTOVON (was Re: Pulling the Zero, and higher digits) Re: FCC to End Reciprocal Loophole Radio Stations using SSb ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 16 Dec 2000 06:41:29 -0500 From: Terry Kennedy Subject: Re: I think I will create the TSFPWW Steve Summit writes: > Then, someone can come out > with "power strips" which contain one transformer and multiple > low-voltage outlets that you can plug all your little low-power > devices into. Wouldn't that be nice? Been there, did that. Take a look at: http://www.new-york.net/pics_nyc_pop/nyc_pop_024.jpg (front) http://www.new-york.net/pics_nyc_pop/nyc_pop_014.jpg (back) which is a wall wart eliminator (in this case, for AT&T Dataport 14.4 modems). [Yep, they're _old_ pictures] Terry Kennedy http://www.tmk.com terry@tmk.com Jersey City, NJ USA - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 16 Dec 2000 12:09:56 -0500 From: scsmediafmp@aol.com (Steven Scharf) Subject: Re: I think I will create the TSFPWW Cyberguys has a product that partially solves the problem. They offer heavy duty 1 foot grounded extension cords that can be plugged into the powerstrip and the the warts can be plugged into them. http://www.cyberguys.com/ They call them powerstrip liberators and for $1.79 each they are a bargin. I am going to buy a bounch of them as stocking stuffers for my family. All of them are computerheads. Steven Scharf SCS Media Services PO Box 4135 Portland, Maine 04101 Tel: 207-774-9393 Fax: 207-774-1819 SCSMedia@aol.com Hudson Leighton wrote: > I think I will create the TSFPWW > What is "TSFPWW" you ask? > It is "The Society For The Prevention of Wall Warts" > What is a "Wall Wart" you ask? > It's that black cube that is the power supply for your modem, router, > telephone, caculator, etc., etc., etc. > > Today I installed a new phone, in doing so I had to disturb that pile > in the corner I joking call the "Hub Room" > When I got done untangling the mess, I found I had 14 Wall Warts > plugged into various extention cords, power strips, cube taps. I don't have it quite that bad, but you're right, the situation is completely out of hand. (The only saving grace is that power strip manufacturers have recognized the problem, and are starting to come out with models designed to allow multiple "Wall Warts" to be plugged in without blocking half the other outlets.) The industry desperately needs to standardize on one voltage for these things (I'd suggest 12 volts, AC; rectifiers are cheap, and using AC avoids polarity problems) and also one standard connector for the standard voltage. Then, someone can come out with "power strips" which contain one transformer and multiple low-voltage outlets that you can plug all your little low-power devices into. Wouldn't that be nice? (If this is a brand-new idea, I hereby offer it into the public domain, and hope that this message to the Digest serves as a viable "anti-patent".) Steve Summit scs@eskimo.com - -- Programming Challenge #6: Don't just fix the bug. See http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/challenge/. - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 16 Dec 2000 13:00:11 -0500 From: Joel B Levin Subject: Re: Early NPA Assignments In <5.0.0.25.0.20001215230144.00a08680@mailbox.verizon.net>, Gary Novosielski wrote: }Although the dial pulses did figure into the assignment of codes correlated }to traffic, area codes have always been listed in numerical order, and 201 }did, and still does top the list as the "lowest" number. Not in some old internal telco lists I've seen. }It could be argued that the "lowest" telephone number in the world is }located somewhere in Jersey City, NJ., if you accept the following }definition of "low": } }The lowest Country Code is +1: USA }The lowest US NPA is 201: NJ }The lowest NXX code in 201 is 200: Jersey City } }Presumably, if someone in Jersey City has the number +1.201.200.0001 that }could be considered to be the lowest number in the world, and a real vanity }coup! I wonder if he or she knows. Why not 201-200-0000? }"But," I hear you cry, "on a rotary dial, that would be 67 pulses!" True, }but this is a DTMF age. "Desirable" numbers for businesses are typically numbers ending in 00 or 000. Except that many years ago, while this seemed to be true in the East (and probably other places I didn't know about), in Mountain Bell territory where I lived, the best numbers seemed to be the ones that ended in the most 1's. So while "ANdrews 8-8000" might have been really easy to remember or write a jingle about, a number like EAst 7-3111 was a lot easier to dial. /JBL - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 16 Dec 2000 14:27:01 -0500 From: herbsu@netscape.net (Herb Sutherland) Subject: Subject: Re: Pulling the Zero, and higher digits I just thought of something! When I was in the military, they had their own private telephone network. It was called AUTOVON (automatic voice network). Is it possible that by dialing the "A" that would give you access to the AUTOVON? - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 16 Dec 2000 15:10:52 -0500 From: Steve Linford Subject: Re: AboveNet backbone provider blocking Peacefire site In article <200012142157.eBELvuA24711@jessica.iain.com>, Bennett Haselton wrote: > [sent to journalists on Peacefire's press contacts list] > > We've discovered that a large Internet backbone company, AboveNet > -- which routes about 2% of all hits on a typical Web site -- has > been blocking their downstream customers from accessing the > Peacefire.org Web site for the past four months. Not true. Your class C was only placed on the RBL 4 weeks ago. But a great many of the spam sites in your class C have been on the RBL since May/June. According to Peacefire.org's Whois record it looks like you were moved into that block full of already-RBL'd spammers on 22-Jul-2000. Can you confirm that? > AboveNet has apparently joined a boycott of our ISP because of > hosted sites such as the following: http://209.211.253.69/ which > sell bulk email software. Our ISP has a strict anti-spam policy, > and these sites *never* send spam or use spam to advertise. Some facts for you: Media3 has been the top Spam Support Service in the Spamhaus.org "Internet's worst Spamhausen" list for 8 months (http://www.spamhaus.org/statistics-hosts.lasso). The spam services Media3 hosts include 'Stealth Bulk ISPs' and 'Bullet-proof Bulk hosts' advertising "Spam all you want without being shut down" (http://www.bulk-isp.com/), and spamware sites selling 'stealth' spamware including 'DesktopServer' and 'StealthMassMailer' both specifically designed and marketed for spamming and which claim to cloak the spammers dial-ups and insert fake mail headers into spams to thwart complaints. Specifically, two of the Internet's most notorious hard-line spam operations are hosted by Media3 in the blocks MAPS has on the RBL, and which Media3 (allegedly) wants released by court order. They include: [1] SAMCO in block 209.211.253.0, operated by spammers Bob Galena and Mike Constantin, sells stealth spamware and operates a 'stealth bulk ISP' service, i.e: a service which spammers connect to from their dial-ups to bulk out through and which strips their dial-up IPs off and relays the spam out anonymously through open servers around the net. The SAMCO spam outfit has been thrown off just about every major US provider for the last 2 years. [2] GHI/BulkISP (Global Hosting Institute), operated by a long time spammer known as Sam Al (Saied Alzalzalah) and hosted by Media3 also in block 209.211.253.0 under numerous aliases including bulkisp.com, bulkhost.net, bulk-isp.net, bulkispcorp.net, bulk-isp.com, bulkisp.nu, bulkisp.net, bulkispcorp.com, all of which sell 'bullet-proof spamming services' with the promise "Bulletproof web space is used so you can spam without the worries of being shut down". GHI had been thrown off 5 major ISPs before moving to Media3. > (Since these sites never send spam, don't believe it if AboveNet > says they do this to "protect their customers from spam" -- they've > never produced any spam originating from these sites, and in any > case, blocking customers' Web access has no effect on the amount of > spam that they get! We're talking _major_ spamhausen, of course they send spam. These are spamhausen we've been tracking for over 2 years. Just to give you an idea, this is the termination history of just one of the spamhausen sitting right now in your class C: extractor-pro.com terminated on Dec 31 1999 (directcon.net) bulkemailpeople.com terminated on Dec 31 1999 (directcon.net) e-mailmagnet.com terminated on Dec 31 1999 (directcon.net) stealthmassmailer.com terminated on Dec 31 1999 (directcon.net) marketingmasters.com terminated on Jan 8 2000 (ticnet.com) desktopserver98.com terminated on Jan 8 2000 (ticnet.com) massmailer.com terminated on Jan 22 2000 (ticnet.com) desktopserver98.com terminated on Sep 12 2000 (intelenet.net) marketingmasters.com terminated on Sep 12 2000 (intelenet.net) e-mailblaster.com terminated on Sep 12 2000 (intelenet.net) e-mailmagnet.com terminated on Mar 14 2000 (sesqui.net) bulkemailpeople.com terminated on Feb 19 2000 (granitecanyon.com) extractor-pro.com terminated on Mar 14 2000 (sesqui.net) e-mailblaster.com terminated on Feb 19 2000 (sesqui.net) bulkemailpeople.com terminated on Mar 14 2000 (sesqui.net) e-mailblaster.com terminated on Apr 6 2000 (zyan.com) desktopserver98.com terminated on Apr 6 2000 (zyan.com) stealthmassmailer.com terminated on Mar 14 2000 (sesqui.net) marketingmasters.com terminated on Apr 6 2000 (zyan.com) tornadoblaster.com terminated on Mar 14 2000 (sesqui.net) ontarget98.com terminated on Mar 14 2000 (sesqui.net) listsorcerer.com terminated on Mar 14 2000 (sesqui.net) stealthmassmailer.com terminated on Apr 6 2000 (qwest.net) e-mailmagnet.com terminated on Apr 6 2000 (qwest.net) extractor-pro.com terminated on Apr 6 2000 (qwest.net) bulkemailpeople.com terminated on Apr 6 2000 (qwest.net) tornadoblaster.com terminated on Apr 6 2000 (qwest.net) ontarget98.com terminated on Apr 6 2000 (qwest.net) listsorcerer.com terminated on Apr 6 2000 (qwest.net) stealthmassmailer.com terminated on Apr 14 2000 (relaypoint.net) e-mailmagnet.com terminated on Apr 14 2000 (relaypoint.net) extractor-pro.com terminated on Apr 14 2000 (relaypoint.net) bulkemailpeople.com terminated on Apr 14 2000 (relaypoint.net) tornadoblaster.com terminated on Apr 14 2000 (relaypoint.net) ontarget98.com terminated on Apr 14 2000 (relaypoint.net) listsorcerer.com terminated on Apr 14 2000 (relaypoint.net) marketingmasters.com terminated on Jul 31 2000 (zyan.com) e-mailmagnet.com terminated on Jul 31 2000 (zyan.com) extractor-pro.com terminated on Jul 31 2000 (zyan.com) ontarget98.com terminated on Jul 31 2000 (zyan.com) stealthmassmailer.com terminated on Jul 31 2000 (zyan.com) tornadoblaster.com terminated on Jul 31 2000 (zyan.com) e-mailmagnet.com terminated on Sep 12 2000 (intelenet.net) tornadoblaster.com terminated on Sep 12 2000 (intelenet.net) bulkemailpeople.com LIVE in NETBLK-QWEST-209-211-248 (media3.net) desktopserver98.com LIVE in NETBLK-QWEST-209-211-248 (media3.net) e-mailblaster.com LIVE in NETBLK-QWEST-209-211-248 (media3.net) extractor-pro98.com LIVE in NETBLK-QWEST-209-211-248 (media3.net) massmailer.com LIVE in NETBLK-QWEST-209-211-248 (media3.net) listsorcerer.com LIVE in NETBLK-UU-63-74-120 (media3.net) Media3 are attempting court action which will stop the Internet community from blackholing the hard-line stealth spam operations Media3 hosts, and I find this very alarming. Should MAPS be ordered by a court to release the notorious SAMCO and GHI/BulkISP spam outfits Media3 hosts from the RBL (see info on these below), the Internet will lose its main defence against spamhausen. Every spammer on the net is cheering Media3 on and it stands to reason that without the RBL to stop them every spamhaus not already on Media3 will make a beeline for Media3. I firms like Media3 are prepared to fight the anti-spam community in court to keep the Spam Support Services they host, we stand little chance of eradicating Spam Support Services from the Internet let alone stemming the snowballing growth of Spam Support Services. As Spam Support Services are the fuel, the main cause of, and the root of today's spam problem, this is a case the Internet community actually can't afford to lose. You can review the spam services currently hosted by Media3 in the same block as www.peacefire.org at the following URLs, note that www.peacefire.org is at 209.211.253.169, slap-bang in the middle of this lot of spamhausen: IP Spam Service Site -------------- ----------------- 209.211.253.68 http://www.extractor-pro98.com/ 209.211.253.69 http://www.list-sorcerer.com 209.211.253.70 http://www.massmailer.com 209.211.253.71 http://www.bulkemailpeople.com 209.211.253.72 http://www.desktopserver98.com/ 209.211.253.73 http://www.e-mailblaster.com 209.211.253.74 http://www.marketingmasters.com/bulkserv.htm 209.211.253.79 http://www.4microsoft2000.com/index1.html 209.211.253.84 http://www.bulkers.net 209.211.253.88 http://www.bulkbarn.com/ 209.211.253.89 http://www.web-promotions.com/ 209.211.253.126 http://www.bulkisp.com/ 209.211.253.139 http://www.firstlinesoft.com/ 209.211.253.248 http://www.bulkhost.net 209.211.253.248 http://www.bulk-isp.net 209.211.253.248 http://www.bulkispcorp.net 209.211.253.248 http://www.bulk-isp.com 209.211.253.248 http://www.bulkisp.nu 209.211.253.248 http://www.bulkisp.net 209.211.253.248 http://www.bulkispcorp.com - -- Steve Linford The Spamhaus Project http://www.spamhaus.org - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 16 Dec 2000 16:08:53 -0500 From: wollman@lcs.mit.edu (Garrett Wollman) Subject: Re: AboveNet backbone provider blocking Peacefire site In article <3A3AA56D.65322711@diogenes.sacramento.ca.us>, John David Galt wrote: >The RBL is supposed to be used only to block incoming mail messages, It is supposed to be used for whatever its subscribers choose to use it for. In point of fact, the BGP feed was the first, and for quite some time only, mechanism by which the RBL was made available, clearly putting the lie to your unfounded assertion. - -GAWollman - -- Garrett A. Wollman | O Siem / We are all family / O Siem / We're all the same wollman@lcs.mit.edu | O Siem / The fires of freedom Opinions not those of| Dance in the burning flame MIT, LCS, CRS, or NSA| - Susan Aglukark and Chad Irschick - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 16 Dec 2000 16:09:38 -0500 From: dannyb@panix.com (danny burstein) Subject: power supplies, was: Re: I think I will create the TSFPWW In <200012152342.PAA13303@mail.eskimo.com> scs@eskimo.com (Steve Summit) writes: >The industry desperately needs to standardize on one voltage for >these things (I'd suggest 12 volts, AC; rectifiers are cheap, >and using AC avoids polarity problems) and also one standard >connector for the standard voltage. Then, someone can come out >with "power strips" which contain one transformer and multiple >low-voltage outlets that you can plug all your little low-power >devices into. Wouldn't that be nice? I'd modify that suggestion a bit and look forward a couple of years into the future, and recommend (nominal) 36-42V DC. Why? 1) at that voltage, unlike 12v, you can actually run your cables a decent distance without power losses. 2) there's a fair amount of telco experience with a similar voltage already. A great deal of telco stuff is powered off a nominal 48volts, so there's a small but well defined infrastructure of equipment, fittings, housings, and experience. It's generally high quality and high priced, but with a bit of luck and marketing (see below) the quality can be maintained and the prices lowered. 3) being under 50 volts, it's exempt from a lot of the National Electric Code minutia. (There certainly are safety factors but they're much less critical than at higher voltages) 4) if (and that's a big if) fuel cells can actually be manufactured and marketed succesfully, they'll be outputting a direct current feed. Since the conversion to AC requires additional equipment (and expense and space) and is only, perhaps, 90% efficient, there will be added incentive to use the DC directly. 5) And, most importantly for the wide acceptance: In the next couple of years we're going to see a lot of automotive euqipment move from the present day 12 volt battery system - charged at 14 volts, to a 36 volt battery - charged at 42 volts. So quite a bit of equipment of all sorts, including lighting, communications, and lots and lots of other stuff will soon be available off the shelf for this. - -- _____________________________________________________ Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key dannyb@panix.com [to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded] - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 16 Dec 2000 16:10:55 -0500 From: Jim Rusling Subject: Re: AboveNet backbone provider blocking Peacefire site Joel B Levin wrote: >In , > Jim Rusling wrote: >}Bennett Haselton wrote: > Bennett's complaint snipped >}Quit selling spamware and then ask the RBL team to delist your IP >}address. It is really quite easy. I wish my ISP used the RBL. > >Bennett's not selling spamware. His provider has other customers who do, in >violation of above.net's AUP, and they refuse to do anything about it (rather >like a landlord who rents shops to those who fence stolen property and is >happy to continue collecting the rent). He is an innocent victim, in the same >sense that law enforcement somehow shutting down the building with the fences' >shops can also affect, say, an action committee who has done nothing more >serious than rent an office from the same landlord. There is reason for him >to seriously consider voting with his feet rather than continue to depend on a >supporter of spam services for access; though he could also try to see if he >couldn't persuade MAPS to remove his host(s) from the blacklist. Should the >provider cease to violate the AUP of above.net, I expect they would happily >support removing them from the RBL or begin passing traffic for that provider >regardless of the RBL. > > /JBL I misunderstood. He will then need to change providers to someone that is not spam friendly if he does not want to be blocked. - -- Jim Rusling Now retired full time Mustang, OK http://jrusling.home.mindspring.com - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 16 Dec 2000 16:11:36 -0500 From: jay@west.net (Jay Hennigan) Subject: Re: AboveNet backbone provider blocking Peacefire site On 15 Dec 2000 18:11:16 -0500, John David Galt wrote: :Garrett Wollman wrote: : :> Really? When my organization talked to AboveNet about possibly :> getting service from them, they were quite clear that they receive and :> use a BGP feed of the Realtime Blackhole List. This was represented :> by their representative as a feature. : :The RBL is supposed to be used only to block incoming mail messages, :not outgoing web access. And an ISP that respects its users would :leave it up to each user whether to turn on even that blocking. The RBL is a listing of IP addresses of organizations that engage in or facilitate spam. Most ISPs who use it apply it as a mail filter, but it can also be, with permission, used as a BGP feed to block all traffic. In my viewpoint, spam is a form of denial-of-service attack on the Internet at large, and the MAPS people are acting to reduce all of the effects of this attack. As far as Peacefire goes, they certainly can and should seek other connectifity. In addition to RBL, there are many others who independently filter traffic from spam supporting networks. Remember AGIS? Once a provider embraces spamming and spammers, their connectivity suffers and legitimate customers leave, causing a death spiral. Look at the IP space in the /24 around Peacefire's site. Would *you* want to live in that neighborhood? Do you really think that the provider isn't a spam-supporting site with a customer list like the following? 209.211.253.68 http://www.extractor-pro98.com/ 209.211.253.69 http://www.list-sorcerer.com 209.211.253.70 http://www.massmailer.com 209.211.253.71 http://www.bulkemailpeople.com 209.211.253.72 http://www.desktopserver98.com/ 209.211.253.73 http://www.e-mailblaster.com 209.211.253.74 http://www.marketingmasters.com/bulkserv.htm 209.211.253.84 http://www.bulkers.net 209.211.253.88 http://www.bulkbarn.com/ 209.211.253.89 http://www.web-promotions.com/ 209.211.253.126 http://www.bulkisp.com/ --> 209.211.253.169 http://www.peacefire.org <--- 209.211.253.248 http://www.bulkhost.net 209.211.253.248 http://www.bulk-isp.net 209.211.253.248 http://www.bulkispcorp.net Keep in mind that the RBL listings come only after extensive and lengthy attempts to educate the holder of the IP addresses to cease supporting spam and spammers. Media3 has made a business decision to provide web space to those who are profiting from a distributed denial-of-service attack on the Internet. Peacefire has made a business decision to get their connectivity from Media3. Media3 can lose their spammers and start digging themselves out of the multiple filters they've caused to be created worldwide, including the RBL. Peacefire can seek other connectivity, it's likely they've had offers from other providers who aren't spam supporters. I would seriously encourage them to do so. The cleanest, most well-run store in the world isn't going to get a lot of business if it's surrounded by crack houses, slums, and sewage treatment plants. Those who get their connectivity from a provider who uses the RBL can also seek connectivity elsewhere. Then they'll get Peacefire. And a heaping side order of spam. - -- Jay Hennigan - Network Administration - jay@west.net NetLojix Communications, Inc. NASDAQ: NETX - http://www.netlojix.com/ WestNet: Connecting you to the planet. 805 884-6323 - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 16 Dec 2000 16:12:21 -0500 From: dannyb@panix.com (danny burstein) Subject: Re: I think I will create the TSFPWW In hudsonl@skypoint.com (Hudson Leighton) writes: >A major coup would be the same low-voltage connector on a wall wart, >ever looked at the collection of plugs on a Radio Shack "universal" >wall wart. It used to that the wall wart and device had the same manfacturers >name on them, now days the wall wart is labeled for the XYZ wall wart co. >And you are out of luck if the wall wart and the device get seperated. >I now put my own sticky label on a wall wart as soon as I take it out of the >box so I have a ghost of a chance of keeping it with the correct device. Another key thing to do is put a decent sized label with the (nominal) power requirement on the equipment front and back. And if it's DC, mark down which side is negative. This will make it _much_ easier to mix and match supplies and demands. For added incentive, I've bumped into quite a few items that _don't_ have the power demand listed on the main box. - -- _____________________________________________________ Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key dannyb@panix.com [to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded] - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 16 Dec 2000 16:12:28 -0500 From: Joel B Levin Subject: Re: AboveNet backbone provider blocking Peacefire site In <3A3AA56D.65322711@diogenes.sacramento.ca.us>, John David Galt wrote: }Garrett Wollman wrote: } }> Really? When my organization talked to AboveNet about possibly }> getting service from them, they were quite clear that they receive and }> use a BGP feed of the Realtime Blackhole List. This was represented }> by their representative as a feature. } }The RBL is supposed to be used only to block incoming mail messages, }not outgoing web access. And an ISP that respects its users would }leave it up to each user whether to turn on even that blocking. The RBL is supposed to be used any way the subscriber wishes to use it. Subscription to the BGP feed of the RBL implies an intention to use it to block all IP access to and from blackholed addresses. At the packet routing level where BGP operates, no distinction is made between email or http or any other kinds of IP packets. If it was not intended for an ISP to use the RBL in this way, MAPS would not make a BGP feed available. Your statement is just plain wrong. /JBL - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 16 Dec 2000 16:47:16 -0500 From: Robert Casey Subject: New area code for NY, PacBell gives faulty error message It looks like today is the first day of mandatory dialing of the new area code 845 (split off of 914) and my friends there neglected to tell me. Anyway, I dial 914-365-xxxx and get error message "The area code 000 has changed to 000". I called from 408-324-xxxx Had to call the Sprint operator to find out the new area code. - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 16 Dec 2000 17:02:39 -0500 From: kamlet@infinet.com (Art Kamlet) Subject: Re: Subject: Re: Pulling the Zero, and higher digits In article <7E3E57AE.58F78637.0006300D@netscape.net>, Herb Sutherland wrote: > > >I just thought of something! When I was in the military, they had their own private telephone network. It was called AUTOVON (automatic voice network). Is it possible that by dialing the "A" that would give you access to the AUTOVON? My autovon phone circa 1965 had an additional column on the right with 4 buttons. The top two were FO (Flash Override) and F (Flash) and I think the next one was I (Immediate???) or ? (Priority??) but I am vague on the last two. If your phone was equipped for FO, say (the general's phone would be) then if you dialed someone, you would get through even if he was currently talking. - -- Art Kamlet Columbus, Ohio kamlet@infinet.com - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 16 Dec 2000 17:59:40 -0500 From: Roy Subject: Re: New area code for NY, PacBell gives faulty error message And why is that PacBell's fault? I would think the fault is either in the LEC for the 914-365 or in your long distance carrier. Robert Casey wrote: > It looks like today is the first day of mandatory dialing of the new > area code 845 (split off of 914) and my friends there neglected > to tell me. Anyway, I dial 914-365-xxxx and get error message > "The area code 000 has changed to 000". I called from 408-324-xxxx > Had to call the Sprint operator to find out the new area code. > -- > The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail > messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 16 Dec 2000 20:04:38 -0500 From: Dave Tweed Subject: Re: power supplies, was: Re: I think I will create the TSFPWW danny burstein wrote: > I'd modify that suggestion a bit and look forward a couple of years into > the future, and recommend (nominal) 36-42V DC. I heartily second that, especially reasons #2 and #5. DC-DC converters are already readily available, and can be made much smaller than the magnetics required to deal with 60 Hz. Let me add: 6. 36VDC is a good voltage from which to run a 120 VAC inverter for powering (legacy) devices that really need AC. I'm thinking ahead to the time when my house is mostly running off of DC. - -- Dave Tweed - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 16 Dec 2000 20:42:19 -0500 From: Wes Leatherock Subject: Re: Early NPA Assignments On 16 Dec 2000 13:00:11 -0500 Joel B Levin [ ... ] > "Desirable" numbers for businesses are typically numbers ending in 00 or 000. > Except that many years ago, while this seemed to be true in the East (and > probably other places I didn't know about), in Mountain Bell territory where I > lived, the best numbers seemed to be the ones that ended in the most 1's. So > while "ANdrews 8-8000" might have been really easy to remember or write a > jingle about, a number like EAst 7-3111 was a lot easier to dial. It depends on whether it was a step office or an office such as Panel Type or crossbar. Businesses, especially large businesses, have a large number of incoming trunks. A number ending in "00" is the very last terminal reached in a step office so there could be only one line associated with a number ending in "00." A connector in a step office starts with "11" and ends at "00." So a number ending in "11" could have 100 trunks associated with it. (If you have a need for more than 100 trunks, there are special arrangements that can be made, usually involving making some trunks outgoing only.) In Southwestern Bell territory, Kansas City and St. Louis were converted to dial with Panel Type (and crossbar later added), so businesses there liked "00." But it did mean a lot of dialing for the customer. Dallas, Fort Worth, Houston, San Antonio, Oklahoma City, Tulsa and others were all step, so large customers had to settle for "11"...and it was easier for the customers, too. The same thing was no doubt true in Denver, too. Wes Leatherock wleath@sandbox.dynip.com - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 17 Dec 2000 00:39:54 -0500 From: "Ed Ellers" Subject: AUTOVON (was Re: Pulling the Zero, and higher digits) Art Kamlet wrote: "My autovon phone circa 1965 had an additional column on the right with 4 buttons. The top two were FO (Flash Override) and F (Flash) and I think the next one was I (Immediate???) or ? (Priority??) but I am vague on the last two. If your phone was equipped for FO, say (the general's phone would be) then if you dialed someone, you would get through even if he was currently talking." Those are the right names. AUTOVON 16-button sets also had the star key labeled with a five-pointed star and an A on the # key. The only people who had FO capability were the President, the Secretary of Defense, the commanders-in-chief of the "unified and specified commands" (such as U.S. Central Command, U.S. Space Command, etc.) and the CINC of NORAD. The CINCs could use that capability only to report either a DEFCON One or a defense emergency. http://hyperarchive.lcs.mit.edu/telecom-archives/archives/reports/autovon.in structions has an old set of instructions on using AUTOVON. - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 17 Dec 2000 00:50:35 -0500 From: fgoodwin@yahoo.com (Fred Goodwin, CMA) Subject: Re: FCC to End Reciprocal Loophole rbf@rbfnet.com (Brett Frankenberger) wrote in <90cjic0iha@news2.newsguy.com>: >Huh? Where have you been? The FCC has clearly ruled that it is just >as local as when you, say, call your neighbor and talk about the >election issues happening several states away in Florida. Recip-comp >most certainly is applicable and there are CLECs giving lines to ISPs >and making all their money on recip-comp. That must explain why the FCC is readying an order to end recip-comp on dial-up ISP calls (which, after all, is the subject of this thread). - -- ======================================================================== * Fred Goodwin, CMA Dallas Cowboys Training Camp Page * * fgoodwin@yahoo.com http://www.eden.com/~fgoodwin/cowboys.htm * ======================================================================== - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 17 Dec 2000 01:31:10 -0500 From: "Keith M. Hardy" Subject: Radio Stations using SSb Hello, I am trying to find radio station which broadcast on Single Side Band frequences. Is there a list somewhere? Thanks, Keith Hardy khardy3830@aol.com ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ End of Telecom Digest V2000 #158 ******************************** Date: 18 Dec 2000 06:15:18 -0500 From: owner-telecom-digest@telecom-digest.org (Telecom Digest) To: telecom-digest@telecom-digest.org Subject: Telecom Digest V2000 #159 Telecom Digest Monday, December 18 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 159 In this issue: Re: AboveNet backbone provider blocking Peacefire site Re: desirable numbers (was Early NPA Assignments) Re: power supplies, was: Re: I think I will create the TSFPWW Re: AUTOVON (was Re: Pulling the Zero, and higher digits) Re: I think I will create the TSFPWW comp.risks considered harmful (by some) Re: Radio Stations using SSb "Smart" Predictive Dialer? Cisco Stratacom IPX 32 Equipment Re: "Smart" Predictive Dialer? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 17 Dec 2000 07:51:49 -0500 From: Steve Linford Subject: Re: AboveNet backbone provider blocking Peacefire site In article , Steve Linford wrote: > In article <200012142157.eBELvuA24711@jessica.iain.com>, > Bennett Haselton wrote: > > > We've discovered that a large Internet backbone company has > > been blocking their downstream customers from accessing the > > Peacefire.org Web site for the past four months. > > Not true. Your class C was only placed on the RBL 4 weeks ago. But a > great many of the spam sites in your class C have been on the RBL > since May/June. According to Peacefire.org's Whois record it looks > like you were moved into that block full of already-RBL'd spammers on > 22-Jul-2000. Can you confirm that? Very strange, I've asked Bennett Haselton that question 4 times now and he won't answer it. Suppose an ISP had a class C full of spam outfits and that therefore half of his class C was already on the RBL. Suppose the ISP had another 10-20 spam outfits he wanted to put into the same class C but he already knew that if he did that the whole class C would definately be placed on the RBL within months (because the ISP has already been told that). Suppose an "anti-blocking" site, say www.peacefire.org came along wanting hosting. In which of the ISPs many class Cs would it be a good idea to put www.peacefire.org in? Of course, until Bennett Haselton answers the question "did www.peacefire.org move into that class C in July 2000?", this remains speculation. - -- Steve Linford - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 17 Dec 2000 10:40:23 -0500 From: Joseph Singer Subject: Re: desirable numbers (was Early NPA Assignments) 16 Dec 2000 13:00:11 -0500 Joel B Levin wrote: >In <5.0.0.25.0.20001215230144.00a08680@mailbox.verizon.net>, > Gary Novosielski wrote: >}Although the dial pulses did figure into the assignment of codes correlated >}to traffic, area codes have always been listed in numerical order, and 201 >}did, and still does top the list as the "lowest" number. > >Not in some old internal telco lists I've seen. > >}It could be argued that the "lowest" telephone number in the world is >}located somewhere in Jersey City, NJ., if you accept the following >}definition of "low": >} >}The lowest Country Code is +1: USA >}The lowest US NPA is 201: NJ >}The lowest NXX code in 201 is 200: Jersey City >} >}Presumably, if someone in Jersey City has the number +1.201.200.0001 that >}could be considered to be the lowest number in the world, and a real vanity >}coup! I wonder if he or she knows. > >Why not 201-200-0000? > >}"But," I hear you cry, "on a rotary dial, that would be 67 pulses!" True, >}but this is a DTMF age. > >"Desirable" numbers for businesses are typically numbers ending in 00 or 000. >Except that many years ago, while this seemed to be true in the East (and >probably other places I didn't know about), in Mountain Bell territory where I >lived, the best numbers seemed to be the ones that ended in the most 1's. So >while "ANdrews 8-8000" might have been really easy to remember or write a >jingle about, a number like EAst 7-3111 was a lot easier to dial. I don't think it's an east versus west thing, but more likely the type of switching equipment that was originally installed. Most everywhere in major cities if the switching equipment was panel or crossbar major businesses would have numbers that ended XX00 (hundred) or X000 (thousand). In cities where step-by-step (aka Strowger) large businesses usually ended with the number 1 because in a step office to have "hunting" step-by-step offices go from 1 to 0 with 1 being the lowest number. In panel and crossbar offices the lowest number is zero. - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joseph Singer Seattle, Washington USA [ICQ pgr] +1 206 405 2052 [voice mail] +1 206 493 0706 [FAX] - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 17 Dec 2000 13:46:04 -0500 From: "Ed Ellers" Subject: Re: power supplies, was: Re: I think I will create the TSFPWW The problem with a common low-voltage source is that devices must either (A) be designed to operate directly at that voltage -- which may not be feasible with semiconductor technologies that prefer much lower voltages (5V, 3.3V, etc.) -- or (B) must regulate or convert the voltage down inside the device. A device that does the latter could cost as much or more (*not* including the common power supply) as one that uses an AC adapter (*including* the cost of the adapter). Now if this is desirable, there is a small standard low-voltage outlet, namely the one used on airliners to power notebook computers, that could be adopted (cigarette lighter sockets are another established 12V standard, but are way too big). Keep in mind that there are a lot of benefits to the design engineer of using "wall warts" aside from their low unit cost. In the U.S., where some jurisdictions require UL or equivalent approval by law, a device that plugs right into 120V AC needs compliance testing for the *entire* device, while if it uses an AC adapter only the adapter need be tested (except in a few cases such as TVs -- yes, even some 12" TVs use wall warts). AC adapters also allow the same unit to be sold in countries with widely varying power requirements by simply packing a different adapter for each group of countries (at the same time that a different owners' manual, driver CD, etc. is packed) instead of having to build production runs with different power supply sections. There may also be product liability benefits in being able to shift blame for fires, injury, etc. off onto the "wall wart" vendor. One thing I liked recently was the AC adapter for the Intel AnyPoint networking unit -- it's relatively flat, not a cube, and fits in almost any power strip without blocking adjacent outlets - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 17 Dec 2000 13:47:11 -0500 From: Roy Subject: Re: AUTOVON (was Re: Pulling the Zero, and higher digits) The 4 buttons were the precedence FO, F, I, P. They were kind of a joke. People would push the higher button to get their calls though. We routinely used Flash to get calls through to Germany and Japan because if you used a lower button you either got a busy signal or knocked off. And, yes, my FO button did work (1LT). Ed Ellers wrote: > Art Kamlet wrote: > > "My autovon phone circa 1965 had an additional column on the right with 4 > buttons. The top two were FO (Flash Override) and F (Flash) and I think the > next one was I (Immediate???) or ? (Priority??) but I am vague on the last > two. If your phone was equipped for FO, say (the general's phone would be) > then if you dialed someone, you would get through even if he was currently > talking." > > Those are the right names. AUTOVON 16-button sets also had the star key > labeled with a five-pointed star and an A on the # key. The only people who > had FO capability were the President, the Secretary of Defense, the > commanders-in-chief of the "unified and specified commands" (such as U.S. > Central Command, U.S. Space Command, etc.) and the CINC of NORAD. The CINCs > could use that capability only to report either a DEFCON One or a defense > emergency. > > http://hyperarchive.lcs.mit.edu/telecom-archives/archives/reports/autovon.in > structions has an old set of instructions on using AUTOVON. > -- > The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail > messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 17 Dec 2000 19:18:51 -0500 From: Dan Lanciani Subject: Re: I think I will create the TSFPWW This is proposed from time to time and there is a subtle problem. Many wall-wart-using gadgets rely on the total isolation provided by their power supplies. There are blatant cases and subtle cases. In the blatant cases, the negative power supply input may be connected to something entirely unrelated to the ground that the gadget exposes at other interface points. If the two such gadgets share a common ground connection through some other equipment (or if one such gadget shares a ground with a grounded-supply gadget) and the two gadgets share a power supply, some portion of the gadgets' internal circuitry will be shorted out. A common supply approach would require that (at a minimum) all powered modules with external galvanic interfaces be examined (and possibly redesigned) to insure that they use a standard ground reference. Since the tricks that take advantage of the isolated supplies were almost certainly used to cut costs (e.g., to fake a split rail or to control RFI cheaply), vendors will not be happy about abandoning them unless the standard can be shown to be widely used. Even if you have (or can have built) devices which all share a common notion of ground for their power supply and galvanic interface(s) there remains the more subtle issue of unwanted currents in signal ground connections (often lumped in with the somewhat nebulous "ground loop" problem). Consider two identical video cameras with a DC supply input and a baseband output sharing a common ground. Each camera is supplied with a wall wart, and the two video outputs are connected to a switcher. Everything agrees about ground, so this might seem like a great opportunity to replace both wall warts with a single supply of adequate current to power both cameras. But what if the cables to the cameras are of different lengths? There will be different voltage drops in the two supply cables and thus different potentials (relative to our one true reference ground) at the cameras. Current will flow in the shields of the video cables and the corresponding drop (rise) will be superimposed on the video signal. If the supply is unregulated this will add noise. If the supply is clean you will still get a DC offset that may or may not be a problem depending on the input stage of the switcher. Note that you can get all the same problems with just one camera if you ground its power supply at the equipment end and there are long supply and video cables between that end and the camera. These kinds of problems are often very difficult to track down. Assuming for the moment that we cannot solve the problem by eliminating galvanic interfaces (in favor of, e.g., optical or RF), I would prefer an approach of AC distribution at whatever is the highest voltage that the NEC still classifies as "low voltage" (40-50V RMS perhaps?). I think this would offer maximum flexibility. Micro-power devices with isolated (or no) galvanic interfaces could use a linear regulator run directly from the rectified input. More complicated devices could use a conventional transformer or an isolating switching power supply whose input stage runs from the rectified supply. Dan Lanciani ddl@danlan.*com - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 17 Dec 2000 21:37:54 -0500 From: Monty Solomon Subject: comp.risks considered harmful (by some) Excerpt from Risks Digest 21.14 http://catless.ncl.ac.uk/Risks/21.14.html#subj8 - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 14:25:34 +0100 From: Thomas Roessler Subject: comp.risks considered harmful (by some) This site: lists some results from a reverse-engineering effort against the black list used by "SmartFilter". Apparently, comp.risks is being blocked by that software under the "Criminal Skills" category, as are comp.dcom.telecom, comp.org.cpsr.announce, comp.org.eff.news, comp.protocols.tcp-ip, comp.security.announce, and others. - ------------------------------ - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 17 Dec 2000 22:01:08 -0500 From: jay@west.net (Jay Hennigan) Subject: Re: Radio Stations using SSb On 17 Dec 2000 01:31:10 -0500, Keith M. Hardy wrote: :Hello, : I am trying to find radio station which broadcast on Single Side Band :frequences. Is there a list somewhere? Single sideband is a modulation technique, not a frequency band. In its most common form, single sideband transmission involves suppressing the carrier, which makes tuning more critical. As such it is more suited for communications than for broadcast. Most shortwave voice communications are on single sideband, including amateur radio, ship-to-shore, etc. U.S. television video uses a modified form called "vestigial sideband" where the lower sideband is greatly reduced. Early experiments in AM stereo broadcasting used an interesting variation where one channel was sent on the upper sideband and the other on the lower, with a carrier present. Some VHF communications gear has been made with a modulation scheme called ACSB, amplitude compandored sideband. It's compressed audio with SSB modulation and a pilot tone to assist in receiver lock. The pilot is a form of "frequency-shifted carrier" that is used for AGC and AFC in the accompanying receiver. The main advantage is reduced bandwidth over conventional FM. Its popularity is limited, and it is on the way out in favor of narrower-band FM radios for VHF and UHF communication. Broadcast stations are still either conventional AM or FM, as far as I know. The loss of fidelity and increased complexity in the receiving equipment would tend to rule out SSB for broadcasters. If you hear something that sounds like Donald Duck on your shortwave set, that's single sideband. If your receiver has a BFO you can tune it in, very carfully and slow on the tuning knob. - -- Jay Hennigan - Network Administration - jay@west.net NetLojix Communications, Inc. NASDAQ: NETX - http://www.netlojix.com/ WestNet: Connecting you to the planet. 805 884-6323 - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 17 Dec 2000 22:04:30 -0500 From: "M H" Subject: "Smart" Predictive Dialer? OK, a question for all you folks who have some knowledge of predictive dialers (I won't ask who actually works with them; I bet no one would admit it anyway!). Are any predictive dialers "smart" enough to understand the three-rising-tone intercept that generally indicates a disconnected phone line ("boob-bob-beep! We're sorry, the number you have dialed..." yadda yadda yadda) and place that number in its 'do not call' database? I've done a quickie check on web sites but haven't found any explicit mention. _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 17 Dec 2000 22:49:46 -0500 From: "RETECHWEST" Subject: Cisco Stratacom IPX 32 Equipment Complete Cisco / Stratacom IPX-32 System Available. Recently out of service from ATT. 14 cabinets, various system boards, cabling, and other items. All excellent working condition. To view the equipment: http://www.retechwest.com/CISCOIPX32.htm Thank You. Newsgroup Administrator: This will be a one time posting. - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 18 Dec 2000 02:21:56 -0500 From: Robert Casey Subject: Re: "Smart" Predictive Dialer? Don't know for sure, but I bought a little box that makes such tones when I answer the phone. Purpose of box is to blow off telemarketers. Seems to work pretty well. I don't get too many telemarketers anymore since I got this box. This is where I got it from: http://www.sandman.com/tmstop.html M H wrote: > OK, a question for all you folks who have some knowledge of predictive > dialers (I won't ask who actually works with them; I bet no one would admit > it anyway!). > > Are any predictive dialers "smart" enough to understand the > three-rising-tone intercept that generally indicates a disconnected phone > line ("boob-bob-beep! We're sorry, the number you have dialed..." yadda > yadda yadda) and place that number in its 'do not call' database? I've done > a quickie check on web sites but haven't found any explicit mention. > > - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ End of Telecom Digest V2000 #159 ******************************** Date: 19 Dec 2000 06:15:19 -0500 From: owner-telecom-digest@telecom-digest.org (Telecom Digest) To: telecom-digest@telecom-digest.org Subject: Telecom Digest V2000 #160 Telecom Digest Tuesday, December 19 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 160 In this issue: censorware bill passes; universal bypass program released Telecom Update (Canada) #263, December 18, 2000 Re: Message Mysteriously in Voice Mailbox - How? Re: censorware bill passes; universal bypass program released Re: Pulling the Zero, and higher digits CFP: ACM MobiCom 2001 : The Seventh Annual International Conference on Mobile Computing and Networking SMS security over various networks? Future mobile phones 12/18/00 ICBTollFreeNews.Com HEADS UP HEADLINES Re: censorware bill passes; universal bypass program released Re: censorware bill passes; universal bypass program released ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 18 Dec 2000 10:30:47 -0500 From: Bennett Haselton Subject: censorware bill passes; universal bypass program released [sent to journalists on Peacefire's press contacts list] A new program, "Peacefire", is available on our Web page that can disable all popular Windows blocking programs with the click of a button -- released just as Congress has passed the first mandatory-blocking-software bill. Since the House and Senate passed corresponding versions of the Labor HHS Education Appropriations Bill (HR 4577) on Friday, with an amendment included to require the use of blocking software in schools and libraries that receive federal funding, it is likely to become law soon. If the meaning of the amendment text has not been changed, then blocking software will be required for adults as well as minors when using library computers: http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?r106:5:./temp/~r106mmFZoQ:: (see part (b), "Libraries"). The American Library Association announced the passage of the House bill in the December 15 issue of the ALA Washington Office Newsline: http://peacefire.org/censorware/alawon.12-15-2000.txt ALAWON has not yet confirmed whether the final text of the filtering amendment was identical to the original. In response, Peacefire has released a bypass program -- eponymously named "Peacefire" -- which can disable all popular Windows blocking software (Cyber Patrol, SurfWatch, Net Nanny, CYBERsitter, X-Stop, Cyber Snoop, PureSight) with the click of a button. The program is available at http://www.peacefire.org/bypass/ and we will be widely publicizing its release, despite the grave risk that we might get a lot of traffic. -Bennett bennett@peacefire.org http://www.peacefire.org (425) 649 9024 - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 18 Dec 2000 10:39:33 -0500 From: Angus TeleManagement Subject: Telecom Update (Canada) #263, December 18, 2000 ************************************************************ TELECOM UPDATE Angus TeleManagement's Weekly Telecom Newsbulletin http://www.angustel.ca Number 263: December 18, 2000 Publication of Telecom Update is made possible by generous financial support from: AT&T Canada ...................... http://www.attcanada.com/ Bell Canada ............................ http://www.bell.ca/ C1 Communications ......... http://www.c1communications.com/ Cisco Systems Canada ................. http://www.cisco.com/ Lucent Technologies Canada ........... http://www.lucent.ca/ Norigen ............................ http://www.norigen.com/ Sprint Canada .................. http://www.sprintcanada.ca/ ************************************************************ IN THIS ISSUE: ** We're Taking a Holiday ** Terry Matthews Buys Mitel Back ** Bell Wants Changes in New Phone Subsidy Rules ** RIM Plans GPRS Service ** Telus Intros Wireless Palm Service ** CRTC Wants Input on Telecom Monitoring Task ** PSINet Upgrades Eastern Backbone ** Toronto Cab Company Adopts GPS ** Internet Banking Doubles in Canada ** Scotiabank to Offer Banking via Interactive TV ** Tribunal Explains Prison Phone Decision ** Cannect Gets Okay as CLEC ** Panasonic Chooses Calgary for Design Centre ** Cuba Blocking U.S. Circuits ** Executive Shuffle at BCE ** Financial VP Leaves Cell-Loc ** New COO at 360networks ** Correction -- Look Communications ** Telemanagement 2000 Index Now Available ============================================================ WE'RE TAKING A HOLIDAY: Telecom Update is taking a winter break; our next issue will be posted Tuesday, January 2. We wish all readers a successful and rewarding New Year. TERRY MATTHEWS BUYS MITEL BACK: Terry Matthews has agreed to purchase Mitel's Communications Systems division, including the name "Mitel," for $350 Million in cash, notes, and shares. Matthews was one of the founders of Mitel; he left in 1985 when British Telecom bought 51% of the company for $320 Million. ** Matthews has also advanced $8 Million to CrossKeys Systems, a networking software company that is currently looking for a buyer. BELL WANTS CHANGES IN NEW PHONE SUBSIDY RULES: Bell Canada and Bell Mobility have asked the CRTC to reduce the interim rate for the new "revenue tax" that all telecom providers must pay as of January 1 (see Telecom Update #261). They want the 2001 rate dropped from 4.7% to 2.5%, the level Bell calculates will be due in 2002. Wireless carriers should pay only 1.5% in 2001, they say. ** Microcell and Rogers Wireless have supported the Bell application. ** Telus says it may appeal the new rules as well, but for opposite reasons: it says that the amount of subsidy generated in 2002 and beyond will be too low. RIM PLANS GPRS SERVICE: Research in Motion has signed a wholesale agreement to buy airtime and GPRS communications services from Microcell. The deal will enable RIM to offer high-speed wireless Internet access to users of its handheld data units, beginning sometime in 2001. TELUS INTROS WIRELESS PALM SERVICE: Telus Mobility has become the first company in Canada to offer wireless Internet access to Palm V devices. The $50/month service is available in the Vancouver area now; it will be offered in other parts of BC and Alberta early in 2001. CRTC WANTS INPUT ON TELECOM MONITORING TASK: Public Notice 2000-175 announces a public consultation April 18-19 to determine what information the Commission needs in order to monitor the telecom industry (see Telecom Update #240). To participate, notify the Commission by January 29. Interested parties will receive an initial report in March, prepared by a consultant still to be engaged (see Telecom Update #261). http://www.crtc.gc.ca/archive/Notices/2000/PT2000-175.htm PSINET UPGRADES EASTERN BACKBONE: PSINet will increase the capacity of its fibre link from Toronto to three U.S. hosting centres to 40 Gbps by year-end. Its Toronto-Ottawa-Montreal link can now support up to 10 Gbps transmission. TORONTO CAB COMPANY ADOPTS GPS: Toronto's Diamond Taxicab Association has ordered GPS fleet management software from Ottawa-based SiGem. The software automatically dispatches the closest available cab to a caller. INTERNET BANKING DOUBLES IN CANADA: Canadian Facts says that about 20% of Canadians have signed up for Internet banking, double the number a year ago. Of the rest, 16% say they may do so in the next six months. SCOTIABANK TO OFFER BANKING VIA INTERACTIVE TV: Scotiabank says it will be the first Canadian bank to offer on-line banking via Rogers Cable's Interactive TV service. (See Telecom Update #259) TRIBUNAL EXPLAINS PRISON PHONE DECISION: Explaining its decision sustaining a Telus complaint against the award of a prison phone contract to Bell Canada, the Canadian International Trade Tribunal says that after bidding closed, Correctional Services of Canada held discussions with Bell that were "clearly improper" and "resulted in the CSC allowing BCE to repair its bid." (See Telecom Update #257) www.citt.gc.ca/PROCURE/DETERMIN/pr2a017e/pr2a017e.htm CANNECT GETS OKAY AS CLEC: Cannect Communications, a telecom services and equipment provider, has received the CRTC's approval to operate as a Competitive Local Exchange Carrier in Vancouver. PANASONIC CHOOSES CALGARY FOR DESIGN CENTRE: Panasonic Wireless says its new Calgary design centre, one of two in North America, will move into expanded facilities next July and grow to 150 staff by 2002. CUBA BLOCKING U.S. CIRCUITS: On December 15, the Cuban government cut direct phone service between Cuba and the U.S., because of U.S. phone companies' failure to pay a Cuban tax. Calls are being rerouted through third countries such as Canada. EXECUTIVE SHUFFLE AT BCE: BCE has appointed Siim Vanaselja as CFO and Patrick Pichette as EVP Planning and Performance Management, as of January 15. Vanaselja replaces Bill Anderson, who becomes Chairman of BCI. Howard Hendrick replaces Vanaselja as CFO of BCI. Pichette was formerly a partner with McKinsey & Co. FINANCIAL VP LEAVES CELL-LOC: David Howard, formerly VP Finance at Cell-Loc, has left the company. His functions are now filled by Jim Hill, named last month as CFO. NEW COO AT 360NETWORKS: 360networks has appointed Jimmy Byrd, formerly North American President of Level 3 Communications, as Chief Operating Officer. CORRECTION -- LOOK COMMUNICATIONS: Look Communications is continuing to market its wireless digital TV and Internet services to residential customers in Multi-Dwelling Units, contrary to what was implied in Telecom Update #262. TELEMANAGEMENT 2000 INDEX NOW AVAILABLE: Telemanagement subscribers will receive an eight-page subject index with the January issue of the newsletter. The index is also available on-line at the Angus Web site, where it is updated monthly. (http://www.angustel.ca) ** The Telecom Update search engine, also on the Angus Web site, accesses items in all back issues of the weekly newsbulletin. Both resources cover all years back to 1995. ** To subscribe to Telemanagement, call 1-800-263-4415, ext 500 or visit the Telemanagement home page at http://www.angustel.ca. ============================================================ HOW TO SUBMIT ITEMS FOR TELECOM UPDATE E-MAIL: editors@angustel.ca FAX: 905-686-2655 MAIL: TELECOM UPDATE Angus TeleManagement Group 8 Old Kingston Road Ajax, Ontario Canada L1T 2Z7 =========================================================== HOW TO SUBSCRIBE (OR UNSUBSCRIBE) TELECOM UPDATE is provided in electronic form only. There are two formats available: 1. The fully-formatted edition is posted on the World Wide Web on the first business day of the week at http://www.angustel.ca 2. The e-mail edition is distributed free of charge. To subscribe, send an e-mail message to: listmanager@subs.postmastergeneral.com Insert as the subject of your message the two words: subscribe TelecomUpdate To stop receiving the e-mail edition, send an e-mail message to: listmanager@subs.postmastergeneral.com Insert as the subject of your message the two words: unsubscribe TelecomUpdate =========================================================== COPYRIGHT AND DISCLAIMER: All contents copyright 2000 Angus TeleManagement Group Inc. All rights reserved. For further information, including permission to reprint or reproduce, please e-mail rosita@angustel.ca or phone 905-686-5050 ext 225. The information and data included has been obtained from sources which we believe to be reliable, but Angus TeleManagement makes no warranties or representations whatsoever regarding accuracy, completeness, or adequacy. Opinions expressed are based on interpretation of available information, and are subject to change. If expert advice on the subject matter is required, the services of a competent professional should be obtained. ============================================================ JOHN RIDDELL jriddell@angustel.ca Angus TeleManagement Group http://www.angustel.ca 8 Old Kingston Road Tel: 905-686-5050 x226 Ajax Ontario L1T 2Z7 Canada Fax: 905-686-2655 - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 18 Dec 2000 10:53:39 -0500 From: tweek@fnord.io.com (Mike Maxfield) Subject: Re: Message Mysteriously in Voice Mailbox - How? "Pete Ritter" writes: >Can anyone offer ideas on how this happened? > >My wife received a message in her Sprint PCS voice mailbox. It was her >father saying "OK. Your English no entiendo nada." ("I don't understand >your English"). My wife's parents live in Mexico and speak virtually no >English. When we asked him about this message, he said that he never left >such a message but that he did receive a call from a woman speaking English >and that's what he said to her. Does anyone have any idea how the message >could have appeared in her VMbox? Does Mexico have the automatically installed three way calling enhanced service like the telco threw onto our service in California (and likely elsewhere) where if you press the switchhook once you get another dial tone, and then if you hang up, the number you were previously connected to rings you back? If your father in law called your wife, perhaps he got the voice mail and decided tu hang up, yet somehow when he hung up, he hit the flash button or otherwise flashed the switch hook first, and then he recieved the ringback from the voicemail box, hearing only the tail end and not understanding the context of what was being said as it went into record mode, he said his memorable words... and not hearing the person (the now ended recording) repeatherself, he hung up, befuddled. - -- tweek@io.com - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 18 Dec 2000 10:58:07 -0500 From: jlurker@bigfoot.com (Justa Lurker) Subject: Re: censorware bill passes; universal bypass program released It was 18 Dec 2000 10:30:47 -0500, and Bennett Haselton wrote in comp.dcom.telecom: | In response, Peacefire has released a bypass program -- | eponymously named "Peacefire" -- which can disable all | popular Windows blocking software (Cyber Patrol, SurfWatch, | Net Nanny, CYBERsitter, X-Stop, Cyber Snoop, PureSight) | with the click of a button. Providing software to defeat blocking software makes an nearly immediate add to the blocking lists, including server based lists that the new software will not bypass. I gather Peacefire wants to join in the reputation of the other sites hosted on their ISP. One more thought, from peacefire's web page: > In general, this program will not work against censorware > programs used in schools, but it will work against home > censorware programs except for AOL Parental Controls. If this software was written in reaction to the bill, why doesn't do anything with the computers covered by the bill itself? Seems like a stunt to get Peacefire blocked more than being helpful. JL - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 18 Dec 2000 12:47:45 -0500 From: Steve Gaarder Subject: Re: Pulling the Zero, and higher digits On 15 Dec 2000, Jay Hennigan wrote: > For other examples of strange rotary dials, check out a New Zealand phone. > Only ten holes, but numbered in the opposite direction. Doing *that* > conversion electromechanically must have been fun if they had IDDD in the > early days. Yes, I remember hearing about these. Since IDDD never - at least to my knowledge - sent dial pulses over the trunks, I expect that accommodating the reverse-numbered dial merely meant that the signaling converter had to be built specially. They also used those phones in Oslo, Norway. Since, as I understand it, they were only used in part of the country, they would have had to do the above-mentioned fun electromechanical conversion for domestic DDD, and maybe even local calls in "borderline" areas. I actually own one of the Oslo-type phones. It used to be an interesting item to show to friends, but dials are so rare these days that the difference no longer jumps out to people! Steve Gaarder gaarder@lightlink.com - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 18 Dec 2000 13:12:08 -0500 From: dawn@eecs.wsu.edu Subject: CFP: ACM MobiCom 2001 : The Seventh Annual International Conference on Mobile Computing and Networking Enclosed below please find a Preliminary Announcement and Call for Papers for the 7th Annual International Conference on Mobile Computing and Networking (MobiCom) to be held in Rome, Italy from July 16-21, 2001. As you might already know, MobiCom has an established reputation as the pre-eminent conference in this area owing to the exceptionally high quality of papers, excellent tutorials and workshops, and stimulating panels conducted by mobile computing illuminati of various stripes. For complete information about the upcoming conference, please visit: http://www.research.ibm.com/mobicom2001/ A printer friendly version of this CFP is available at: http://www.eecs.wsu.edu/~krishna/Mobicom2001-onepagecfp.pdf (PDF) http://www.eecs.wsu.edu/~krishna/Mobicom2001-onepagecfp.ps (PS) We apologize if you received multiple copies of this Call for Papers. Please feel free to distribute it to those who might be interested. Very truly yours, ACM SIGMOBILE MobiCom 2001 Organizing Committee *********************************************************************** Preliminary Announcement and Call for Papers *** ACM MobiCom 2001 *** The Seventh Annual International Conference on Mobile Computing and Networking July 16-21, Rome, Italy Sponsored by ACM SIGMOBILE http://www.research.ibm.com/mobicom2001/ http://www.acm.org/sigmobile/ Submission Deadline: January 12, 2001 *********************************************************************** PAPERS: Technical papers (maximum 15 pages) describing original, previously unpublished, completed research, not currently under review by another conference or journal, are solicited on the following topics: * Applications and computing services supporting mobile users * Architectures, protocols, and algorithms to cope with mobility, limited bandwidth, or intermittent connectivity * Database and data management issues in mobile computing * Performance of mobile/wireless networks and systems * Security and privacy of mobile/wireless systems * Interaction between different layers of mobile/wireless systems * Integration and interworking of wired and wireless networks * Adaptive applications and systems for mobile environments * Distributed-system aspects of mobile systems * Operating system support for mobility * Location-dependent applications * Wireless multimedia systems * Power management * Mobile agents * Pervasive computing * Wireless sensor networks * Wireless/mobile service management and delivery All papers will be refereed by the program committee. Accepted papers will be published in the conference proceedings. Papers of particular merit will be proposed for publication in the ACM/Baltzer Wireless Networks (WINET) and Mobile Networks and Applications (MONET) journals. Note: Student Registrations will be provided at a discounted rate. CHALLENGES SESSION, PANELS, RESEARCH DEMOS, TUTORIALS: Short papers (maximum of 8 pages) that challenge the mobile computing community with new technologies or visionary applications are solicited. Such papers should provide stimulating ideas or visions that may open up exciting avenues of mobile computing research. Proposals are solicited for panels that examine innovative, controversial, or otherwise provocative issues of interest. Proposals for tutorials are solicited. Tutorial topics that encompass the systems aspects of mobile computing and/or practical experiences in building/deploying such systems are of particular interest. Informal proposals for research demos are solicited. Proposals should include: the focus area in mobility, the technologies involved, specific equipment used, demo layout, space required, etc. Please refer to the conference website for submission and other details. IMPORTANT DATES: * Technical Paper Submissions due: January 12, 2001 - Please refer to the website for submission instructions * Notification of acceptance: May 1, 2001 * Camera-ready version due: May 15, 2001 * Challenges Session Papers, Panel Proposals, Tutorial Proposals Submissions due: January 12, 2001 - Please refer to the website for submission instructions FOR MORE INFORMATION: Send email to mobicom2001@winlab.rutgers.edu with any questions or comments about the conference or for more information. ORGANIZING COMMITTEE: * General Chair: * Tutorials Co-Chairs: Christopher Rose Ravi Jain Rutgers University, WINLAB Telcordia Technologies * General Vice Chair: Chiara Petrioli Politecnico di Milano Sergio Palazzo Universita` di Catania * Panels Chair: * Program Co-Chairs: Ramesh Rao Univ. of California, San Diego Mahmoud Naghshineh IBM T.J. Watson Research Center * Local Arrangement Chair: Michele Zorzi Marco Listanti Universita` di Ferrara Universita` di Roma "La Sapienza" * Finance Chair: Chiara Petrioli Politecnico di Milano David B. Johnson Rice University * Registration Chair: * Exhibits/Sponsorships Chair: Irene Katzela Marco Ajmone Marsan Lucent Technologies Politecnico di Torino * Publicity Co-Chairs: * Research Demos Chair: Stefano Basagni Nigel Davies Univ. of Texas at Dallas Lancaster University Krishna Sivalingam * Steering Committee Chair: Washington State University Imrich Chlamtac Univ. of Texas at Dallas *********************************************************************** - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 18 Dec 2000 13:59:15 -0500 From: Chris Kantarjiev Subject: SMS security over various networks? I'm trying to put together a white paper on the relative merits of text messaging security via SMS over the various cell networks: CDMA, GSM, AT&T's TDMA. I've found a number of links about voice security, but they're mostly fluff, and they never really mention whether the same algorithms/techniques apply to SMS when sent over the network. Can anyone give me some pointers? Even for-pay reports would be welcome at this point. Thanks, chris - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 18 Dec 2000 15:24:26 -0500 From: "IMT-2000-online" Subject: Future mobile phones Hello, As you perhaps already know, the third generation mobile phones are just about to be brought out. According to the International Telecommunications Union (ITU), the name given to the system will be IMT-2000. If you want to learn a little bit more about IMT-2000, to see how the future terminals will look like or to a watch a video that explains how IMT-2000 will change our everyday life, just have a look at our site: www.IMT-2000-online.com Thank you... Laurent HERMOYE IMT-2000-online - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 20:19:11 -0500 From: "Judith Oppenheimer" Subject: 12/18/00 ICBTollFreeNews.Com HEADS UP HEADLINES ____________________________________________________ ICBTollFreeNews.Com HEADS UP HEADLINES ____________________________________________________ from ICB Toll Free News - Daily News and Intelligence covering the Political, Legal and Marketing Arenas of 800 and Dot Com. ____________________________________________________ A HOLIDAY MESSAGE ... from publisher Judith Oppenheimer and ICB Staff http://www.icbtollfree.com/article.cfm?articleId=4899 ___________________________________________________ CONTENTS - - FCC PROSCRIBES 800 TRANSFERS BETWEEN SUBSCRIBERS - - DOMAIN NAME SOVEREIGNTY, A LEGAL MINEFIELD - - ARE DOMAIN VALUES REBOUNDING? - - FINDUS.COM RETAINS ITS DOMAIN - - COLLISION IN CYBERSPACE: RIGHT TO DOT BIZ CHALLENGED ___________________________________________________ CUSTOMER SERVICE NOTES: With over 4,000 articles archived, ICB is a popular research destination. 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Similar reports have reached the Commission’s Enforcement Bureau and Consumer Information Bureau... These changes will make it substantially less likely that RespOrgs are able to use the SMS/800 to effectuate transfers that are contrary to the rules. CONTINUED HERE: http://www.icbtollfree.com/article.cfm?articleId=4894 F - DOMAIN NAME SOVEREIGNTY, A LEGAL MINEFIELD According to a recent Xinhua report, some researchers in Shanghai are working on a solution that would assign Arabic telephone numbers to domains, universal to all, in lieu of inputting an actual language. The system has reportedly been reviewed by the Chinese Academy of Engineering, with patents pending in 30 countries and regions. CONTINUED HERE: http://www.icbtollfree.com/article.cfm?articleId=4897 F - ARE DOMAIN VALUES REBOUNDING? "Failing startups owning memorable URLs may find these domain names are their most valuable asset upon liquidation," says George Nichols, an analyst at Morningstar.com. Mortgage.com is the most recent now-defunct dot-com to hawk its URL at its fire sale. Dutch investment bank ABN Amro bought it for $1.8 million on December 14. CONTINUED HERE: http://www.icbtollfree.com/article.cfm?articleId=4895 P - FINDUS.COM RETAINS ITS DOMAIN Wallberg ruled that the couple did have a legitimate right to the name and that they had not registered it with the intention of selling it, even if they later said they were willing to sell. CONTINUED HERE: http://www.icbtollfree.com/article.cfm?articleId=4896 P - COLLISION IN CYBERSPACE: RIGHT TO DOT BIZ CHALLENGED The Atlantic Root Network, Inc., a registry for the ".biz" Top Level Domain Name ("TLD"), petitions the National Telecommunications and Information Agency ("NTIA") and the Department of Commerce ("DoC") to hold a public hearing pursuant to the Administrative Procedures Act ("APA") (5 U.S.C.A. Sec. 551, et. seq.) prior to consideration and approval of the ICANN recommended TLDs. 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All rights reserved. ____________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: 18 Dec 2000 23:17:19 -0500 From: jay@west.net (Jay Hennigan) Subject: Re: censorware bill passes; universal bypass program released On 18 Dec 2000 10:58:07 -0500, Justa Lurker wrote: :It was 18 Dec 2000 10:30:47 -0500, and Bennett Haselton : wrote in comp.dcom.telecom: :| In response, Peacefire has released a bypass program -- :| eponymously named "Peacefire" -- which can disable all :| popular Windows blocking software (Cyber Patrol, SurfWatch, :| Net Nanny, CYBERsitter, X-Stop, Cyber Snoop, PureSight) :| with the click of a button. : :Providing software to defeat blocking software makes an :nearly immediate add to the blocking lists, including :server based lists that the new software will not bypass. Peacefire has for a long time been on the block lists of most if not all of the censorware out there, primarily because Peacefire shows the flaws of such censorware and the tremendous "collateral damage" that censorware causes to sites which do not contain content that fits the criteria for blockage. :I gather Peacefire wants to join in the reputation of :the other sites hosted on their ISP. If they're smart, they will move. I've seen no evidence whatsoever that Peacefire has facilitated the sending of spam, or that the Peacefire site itself is advertised by spam, have you? That's the issue with the other hosted sites. :One more thought, from peacefire's web page: :> In general, this program will not work against censorware :> programs used in schools, but it will work against home :> censorware programs except for AOL Parental Controls. : :If this software was written in reaction to the bill, :why doesn't do anything with the computers covered by :the bill itself? Seems like a stunt to get Peacefire :blocked more than being helpful. Peacefire has been on the block lists of most censorware for at least a year. I believe the purpose ("stunt" if you insist) is to demonstrate the weaknesses and drawbacks of the use of censorware. Peacefire also demonstrates methods to extract the block lists in plain text. That is to the best of my knowledge the sole reason that Peacefire is and has been for some time in the block lists. And that is also in my opinion the major drawback of censorware, its concealment of the list of blocked sites. In essence the users of the censorware are allowing a third party run for profit to dicatate what is and is not appropriate, and with no ability (save for Peacefire) to analyze the accuracy or motives behind the decision. That's OK for a parent, but not IMHO for a government-funded institution choosing what is appropriate for the taxpayers to view. If this becomes law, will the administrators of the libraries be able to determine the content of the filter list? If government-mandated censorware happens to block political speech, will the libraries know this? Will they be able to whitelist it, or must they by law accept the judgement of the censorware vendor? IMHO, Peacefire is providing a valuable public service by exposing the dangers of censorware, even more so if it becomes government-mandated censorware. - -- Jay Hennigan - Network Administration - jay@west.net NetLojix Communications, Inc. NASDAQ: NETX - http://www.netlojix.com/ WestNet: Connecting you to the planet. 805 884-6323 - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 19 Dec 2000 05:17:07 -0500 From: djb0x77376989@scream.org (Dan Birchall) Subject: Re: censorware bill passes; universal bypass program released Bennett Haselton wrote: > A new program, "Peacefire", is available on our Web page that can disable > all popular Windows blocking programs with the click of a button -- > released just as Congress has passed the first mandatory-blocking-software > bill. I'd pay extra if it could disable Windows, too. :) - -Dan - -- Dan Birchall - Palolo Valley - Honolulu HI - http://dan.scream.org/ Peruse my opinions, at http://dbirchall.epinions.com/user-dbirchall Another free email site: http://www.themail.com/ref.htm?ref=1163079 My addresses expire... take out the hex stamp if your reply bounces - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ End of Telecom Digest V2000 #160 ******************************** Date: 20 Dec 2000 06:15:11 -0500 From: owner-telecom-digest@telecom-digest.org (Telecom Digest) To: telecom-digest@telecom-digest.org Subject: Telecom Digest V2000 #161 Telecom Digest Wednesday, December 20 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 161 In this issue: Re: censorware bill passes; universal bypass program released Re: censorware bill passes; universal bypass program released NYT: Stats of Cell Phone Use in Poorer Countries Re: censorware bill passes; universal bypass program released Re: censorware bill passes; universal bypass program released Re: Pushbutton phones - was Re: early DTMF, was: Re: Early NPA Assignments [was Pulling the Zero] Re: Radio Stations using SSb Re: NYT: Stats of Cell Phone Use in Poorer Countries Finding Public Domain Music-On-Hold Re: Finding Public Domain Music-On-Hold Re: Finding Public Domain Music-On-Hold Re: Finding Public Domain Music-On-Hold Re: Finding Public Domain Music-On-Hold 12/19/00 ICBTollFreeNews.Com HEADS UP HEADLINES (plus a BIG Holiday Discount) Re: Finding Public Domain Music-On-Hold Re: Finding Public Domain Music-On-Hold Re: Finding Public Domain Music-On-Hold Re: Finding Public Domain Music-On-Hold Re: Finding Public Domain Music-On-Hold Re: NYT: Stats of Cell Phone Use in Poorer Countries Re: NYT: Stats of Cell Phone Use in Poorer Countries ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 19 Dec 2000 07:19:05 -0500 From: hudsonl@skypoint.com (Hudson Leighton) Subject: Re: censorware bill passes; universal bypass program released In article , jay@west.net (Jay Hennigan) wrote: > > :I gather Peacefire wants to join in the reputation of > :the other sites hosted on their ISP. > > If they're smart, they will move. I've seen no evidence whatsoever that > Peacefire has facilitated the sending of spam, or that the Peacefire > site itself is advertised by spam, have you? That's the issue with the > other hosted sites. > Trouble is if you hang out with drunks and thieves, everybody assumes you are drunks and thieves. - -- http://www.skypoint.com/~hudsonl - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 19 Dec 2000 09:50:47 -0500 From: tbetz@panix.com (Tom Betz) Subject: Re: censorware bill passes; universal bypass program released Quoth hudsonl@skypoint.com (Hudson Leighton) in : |In article , jay@west.net (Jay |Hennigan) wrote: | | |> |> :I gather Peacefire wants to join in the reputation of |> :the other sites hosted on their ISP. |> |> If they're smart, they will move. I've seen no evidence whatsoever that |> Peacefire has facilitated the sending of spam, or that the Peacefire |> site itself is advertised by spam, have you? That's the issue with the |> other hosted sites. |> | |Trouble is if you hang out with drunks and thieves, everybody |assumes you are drunks and thieves. ... even if you're Jesus Christ. - -- |I always wanted to be someone,| Tom Betz, Generalist | |but now I think I should have | Want to send me email? FIRST, READ THIS PAGE: | |been a wee bit more specific. | | | "Fuck NANAE." -- Paul Vixie | YO! MY EMAIL ADDRESS IS HEAVILY SPAM-ARMORED! | - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 19 Dec 2000 12:34:41 -0500 From: The Old Bear Subject: NYT: Stats of Cell Phone Use in Poorer Countries As summarized by NewsScan: STATS ON CELL PHONE USE IN POORER COUNTRIES Cell phone use is soaring in underdeveloped countries. Investment banker Kent Lupberger of the International Finance Corporation explains: "The advantage is that the existing infrastructure in these countries is often terrible. And even in the worst places, there are people with money that are desperate for a viable communications network." In a country like Haiti less than 1% of the nation's eight million people have conventional, fixed-line phone service, and 400,000 Haitians are on a waiting list on which they might linger for five years before getting conventional service. The result is that the number of mobile subscribers in Haiti climbed 150% last year over the previous year, and cell phone users now account for more than a third of the nation's phone customers. But Haiti is not alone. In much of Latin America wireless phone service subscribers account for about 60% of the total phone subscribers, and in Africa the growth rate in mobile phone was 116% last year. source: New York Times (19 Dec 2000) http://partners.nytimes.com/2000/12/19/technology/19CELL.html - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 19 Dec 2000 12:57:57 -0500 From: stanley@skyking.OCE.ORST.EDU (John Stanley) Subject: Re: censorware bill passes; universal bypass program released In article , Dan Birchall wrote: >Bennett Haselton wrote: >> A new program, "Peacefire", is available on our Web page that can disable > >I'd pay extra if it could disable Windows, too. :) You already pay to disable windows. It's called "windows". - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 19 Dec 2000 13:29:56 -0500 From: jlurker@bigfoot.com (Justa Lurker) Subject: Re: censorware bill passes; universal bypass program released It was 19 Dec 2000 05:17:07 -0500, and djb0x77376989@scream.org (Dan Birchall) wrote in comp.dcom.telecom: | Bennett Haselton wrote: | > A new program, "Peacefire", is available on our Web page that | > can disable all popular Windows blocking programs with the | > click of a button -- released just as Congress has passed the | > first mandatory-blocking-software bill. | | I'd pay extra if it could disable Windows, too. :) All it does in run the UNINSTALL routine of each of the targeted pieces of software. Not really demonstrating how easily that software can be circumvented, but proving -*- News Flash -*- that software doesn't work when uninstalled. Except of course IE ... JL - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 19 Dec 2000 14:29:38 -0500 From: "Paul Cook" Subject: Re: Pushbutton phones - was Re: early DTMF, was: Re: Early NPA Assignments [was Pulling the Zero] Roy Smith roy@panix.com wrote: > "Gail M. Hall" wrote: > > The owner of the company was severely disabled. He had very limited > > use of his hands and arms, but he could hold a pen and write with > > effort. His phone had a headset and a box with pushbuttons on it > > that he could use to "dial" the numbers. > > The Bell System had a reputation for going to great effort to enable > their equipment to work for people with various handicaps. Custom-built > devices to allow people without full motor function to place and receive > phone calls were, IIRC, provided at no extra charge. > > Whether this sense of corporate social responsibility grew out of Bell's > original work with deaf people, or was a requirement of the government > regulatory constraints, I'm not sure. I also suspect it has fallen by > the wayside these days. I wonder if you may be thinking of the work done by the Telephone Pioneers, the organization of retired Bell workers? They are the ones who did all that free work back in the 1970s, refurbishing and installing old teletype machines and adapting them as TDDs. As I recall, special custom devices were not tarrifed, and so could not be provided by the telco. Paul Cook www.proctorinc.com - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 19 Dec 2000 14:51:40 -0500 From: marsgal42@hotmail.com Subject: Re: Radio Stations using SSb In article <20001216.235558.-484969.1.captainkeith@juno.com>, "Keith M. Hardy" wrote: > I am trying to find radio station which broadcast on > Single Side Band frequences. Is there a list somewhere? Yes. The World Radio/TV Handbook. Among others... I've heard HCJB and Radio Havana on SSB. Speech is OK, but music sounds really weird. There is lots of utility stuff on SSB, like HF aircraft transmissions. Check a reference like Klingenfuss for frequencies. Or just tune around. You'll hear them. Laura Halliday VE7LDH "Que les nuages soient notre Grid: CN89mg pied a terre..." - Hospital/Shafte Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 19 Dec 2000 16:42:17 -0500 From: johnl@iecc.com (John R Levine) Subject: Re: NYT: Stats of Cell Phone Use in Poorer Countries > But Haiti is not alone. In much of Latin America wireless phone > service subscribers account for about 60% of the total phone > subscribers, and in Africa the growth rate in mobile phone was > 116% last year. I've heard that in India and Bangladesh there are "phone ladies" who rent a cell phone and go around town selling service by the call. It's hugely useful to farmers who can now call and find out what the going price in the city is for their crops rather than being at the mercy of the local middleman. - -- John R. Levine, IECC, POB 727, Trumansburg NY 14886 +1 607 387 6869 johnl@iecc.com, Village Trustee and Sewer Commissioner, http://iecc.com/johnl, Member, Provisional board, Coalition Against Unsolicited Commercial E-mail - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 19 Dec 2000 18:15:54 -0500 From: John Bartley Subject: Finding Public Domain Music-On-Hold Well, since Public Law 105-298 (10/27/98) extended copyrights, it looks like if we want to add music-on-hold to our phone system we either a) find sound recordings first 'fixed' (i.e., distributed as then-copyrighted, not just performed on the radio) before 1925 or earlier b) purchase music made-for-hire c) pay for performance rights, or d) hire a commercial service, e.g., Muzak Feeling rather allergic to C) and D) (given my budget) and not wishing to expose callers-on-hold to commercial talk radio (I want them to LIKE us when they get off hold), this leaves us: A) Anyone have any pre-1925 shellac (certainly not vinyl...) and a turntable they would not mind transcribing to audio cassette? Once done, I will take them home, convert them to MP3 files and post them in an appropriate alt.binaries forum (not here - though I will post a notice here so y'all can get them), so folks can download and convert back to audio CD, or use as is with MP3 player software in an obsolete PC, a CD/MP3 player (now <$100!) or such. B) has a selection of public domain stuph for $25 per CD. Any other sources you can think of? ===== - -- "We should call this Year One of Day One." RAH to Uncle Walter, 1969-07-20 John Bartley, NT sysadmin, Portland OR (503) BAR-TLEY __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 19 Dec 2000 19:28:00 -0500 From: Terry Kennedy Subject: Re: Finding Public Domain Music-On-Hold John Bartley writes: > Any other sources you can think of? You can buy one of 5 CD's with different types of music interspersed with "your call is very important to us, and we'll be right back" type messages from On Hold Plus for $19.95 each - see: http://onholdstore.com/holdware/musiconholdcds1.html Terry Kennedy http://www.tmk.com terry@tmk.com Jersey City, NJ USA - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 19 Dec 2000 20:43:18 -0500 From: John McHarry Subject: Re: Finding Public Domain Music-On-Hold On 19 Dec 2000 18:15:54 -0500, John Bartley wrote: >Well, since Public Law 105-298 (10/27/98) extended >copyrights, it looks like if we want to add >music-on-hold to our phone system we either... I find music on hold irritating. It is usually far too loud and interrupted with speech that sounds like you have finally cut through. Also, it destroys conference calls. If someone in the conference puts it on hold, everyone else is drowned out by music. Just say, no thanks. - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 19 Dec 2000 20:54:47 -0500 From: John David Galt Subject: Re: Finding Public Domain Music-On-Hold > You can buy one of 5 CD's with different types of music interspersed with > "your call is very important to us, and we'll be right back" type messages > from On Hold Plus for $19.95 each - see: > http://onholdstore.com/holdware/musiconholdcds1.html So that's who keeps putting out that lie. A business that cared about its customers would hire enough people to answer its calls immediately, every time -- or at the very least, would install an answering machine so that its customers don't have to waste unacceptable amounts of time waiting on hold. I dumped Wells Fargo Bank a couple of years ago (remember their ads promising to pay $100 if you had to wait in line more than 10 minutes?) because their so-called customer service line made me wait over an hour multiple times -- and when I tried to work around it by going to the bank in person, the tellers REFUSED TO DO THEIR JOB and insisted I phone that same line from the bank! More recently, Pacific Bell's Message Center has done the same with its "customer service" line -- and they don't even publish a mailing address. You'd think they'd have the common sense to let you leave a message on their own service, BUT NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! The law may not be willing to shut down businesses that pull this crap, but the public can and should, by boycotting them. - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 19 Dec 2000 21:48:08 -0500 From: pw@panix.com (Paul Wallich) Subject: Re: Finding Public Domain Music-On-Hold In article <3A400F3E.305AD699@diogenes.sacramento.ca.us>, John David Galt wrote: >> You can buy one of 5 CD's with different types of music interspersed with >> "your call is very important to us, and we'll be right back" type messages >> from On Hold Plus for $19.95 each - see: >> http://onholdstore.com/holdware/musiconholdcds1.html > >So that's who keeps putting out that lie. > >A business that cared about its customers would hire enough people to >answer its calls immediately, every time -- or at the very least, would >install an answering machine so that its customers don't have to waste >unacceptable amounts of time waiting on hold. > >I dumped Wells Fargo Bank a couple of years ago (remember their ads >promising to pay $100 if you had to wait in line more than 10 minutes?) >because their so-called customer service line made me wait over an hour >multiple times -- and when I tried to work around it by going to the >bank in person, the tellers REFUSED TO DO THEIR JOB and insisted I >phone that same line from the bank! > >More recently, Pacific Bell's Message Center has done the same with its >"customer service" line -- and they don't even publish a mailing address. >You'd think they'd have the common sense to let you leave a message on >their own service, BUT NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! > >The law may not be willing to shut down businesses that pull this crap, >but the public can and should, by boycotting them. In a recent bout with Verizon, who were completely unable to reconnect my ISDN line over the course of more than a week and five different stories, I had the bitter pleasure of keeping various customer-service folks on the line with me while we waited on hold for the next link in the chain. At an hour and a half a pop, I figure that reconnect order cost them a pretty penny, especially since I ended up cancelling the order and the service. (I was at leisure for other reasons, so the time spent on the phone was not so crucial to me.) paul - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 21:41:59 -0500 From: "Judith Oppenheimer" Subject: 12/19/00 ICBTollFreeNews.Com HEADS UP HEADLINES (plus a BIG Holiday Discount) ____________________________________________________ ICBTollFreeNews.Com HEADS UP HEADLINES ____________________________________________________ from ICB Toll Free News - Daily News and Intelligence covering the Political, Legal and Marketing Arenas of 800 and Dot Com. ____________________________________________________ A HOLIDAY MESSAGE .. from publisher Judith Oppenheimer and ICB Staff http://www.icbtollfree.com/article.cfm?articleId=4899 !!! AND A HOLIDAY GIFT !!! (from "the Present Isn't Wrapped Yet" departmen While our webmasters toil diligently to program your gift into our system, why should you wait ... ?! 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CONTINUED HERE: http://www.icbtollfree.com/article.cfm?articleId=4902 F - PRIMUS ATTACKS DOT AU MONOPOLY "We were told that .com.au domain names were to be deregulated last September," he said. "Then I hear Melbourne IT saying to auDA, here's $680,000, or whatever, and they've got exclusive rights to .com.au for another year. CONTINUED HERE: http://www.icbtollfree.com/article.cfm?articleId=4903 F - NESS REAPPOINTED TO THE FCC Clinton maintains its Democratic majority. CONTINUED HERE: http://www.icbtollfree.com/article.cfm?articleId=4901 P - VERISIGN/TELCORDIA PITCH COMPETITION AT NTIA ENUM MEETING ... go head-to-head with Neustar's contention for Tier 1 monopoly administration. CONTINUED HERE: http://www.icbtollfree.com/txt/NTIA_policy_brief_v2_2_files/frame.htm P - WHOIS COMMITTEE REPORTS TO NAMES COUNCIL This initial effort aims at evaluating whether it is proper for ICANN staff to set up the Whois Committee through lack of consultation process with other relevant interest parties which has brought up criticisms such as lack of openess and its transparent procedural flaw. CONTINUED HERE: http://www.icbtollfree.com/article.cfm?articleId=4909 _______________notices from our sponsors_______________ Are you a local or regional business that advertises in newspapers, direct mail, on radio or tv? 1 800 BRAND IT shared use marketing programs can help your sales skyrocket! http://www.1800BrandIt.com ____________________________________________________ 800 RATE NEGOTIATION EXPERTISE If your usage contract is coming to an end we can help you get the very best rate from your existing or new vendor. We charge $125 per hour. No fee if you choose a vendor we represent. Telemanagement, Inc. http://www.sdtele.com ____________________________________________________ IS YOUR BUSINESS LISTED? The Internet 800 Directory lists hundreds of thousands of toll free numbers and is viewed by millions each month. The Internet 800 Directory will list ANY business with a toll free number, regardless of long distance carrier, for free and was the first to do so. Go to http://gotollfree.com and see if your toll free number is listed. If not, click the Add Listing button to submit your toll free number for this free listing. ____________________________________________________ more HEADLINES for December 19, 2000 F - 1 800 SOUNDBITE SoundBite Communications, a start-up company with a breakthrough approach to personalized instant communications, announced today that Budget Rent a Car is among the initial advertisers on its 1-800-SOUNDBITE service. CONTINUED HERE: http://www.icbtollfree.com/Article.cfm?ArticleId=4908 F - EASYJET GOES TO COURT In 10 cases submitted to the World Intellectual Property Organization's Arbitration and Mediation Center, WIPO ruled that the owners could keep their domains because the services they offered were not similar to easyGroup's. CONTINUED HERE: http://www.icbtollfree.com/article.cfm?articleId=4906 P - BUSH GOVT MAY SPEED TELECOM DEREGULATION "Each time the FCC has attempted to seize state regulatory authority or to dabble in local exchange offerings, the result has been the same: a failed policy that has held back the development of the telecom industry and has engendered a contentious, polarized market," asserted Ron Cowles, principal analyst for Dataquest's telecom group in an official statement. CONTINUED HERE: http://www.icbtollfree.com/article.cfm?articleId=4905 P - REJECTED TLDS PETITION FOR RECONSIDERATION Atleast one, .travel, bases its petition on the APA, stating "the basis for this request is the requirement that ICANN’s decision on the selection of new TLDs comply with the U.S. Administrative Procedure Act, 5 U.S.C. 553 et seq. (APA). IATA submits that the APA is applicable to this decision, notwithstanding ICANN’s status as a California non-profit corporation, because ICANN, inter alia: 1) was created at the request of the U.S. Government; 2) serves at the pleasure of the U.S. Government; and 3) is performing a government policy-making function -- namely, deciding whether to add a TLD to the authoritative, or “A,” root server -- that directly affects a critical public asset that has been financed by the U.S. Government, and remains subject to the ultimate control of the U.S. Government." CONTINUED HERE: http://www.icbtollfree.com/article.cfm?articleId=4904 F - DOMAIN NAME POLICY WHO'S WHO ...an accurate and rather inclusive list... CONTINUED HERE: http://www.icbtollfree.com/article.cfm?articleId=4900 ____________________________________________________ ABOUT ICB ICB HeadsUp Headlines Daily Email is sent by request. Subscriptions to Daily Email are free to qualified applicants. Visit http://www.icbtollfree.com/reg.cfm?NextURL=Index.cfm to sign up. Please feel free to pass along a copy to a friend, within reason so long as the message is not modified or used unfavorably. 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All rights reserved. ____________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: 19 Dec 2000 21:58:31 -0500 From: dannyb@panix.com (danny burstein) Subject: Re: Finding Public Domain Music-On-Hold In <20001219230337.16008.qmail@web2002.mail.yahoo.com> John Bartley writes: >Well, since Public Law 105-298 (10/27/98) extended >copyrights, it looks like if we want to add >music-on-hold to our phone system we either > a) find sound recordings first 'fixed' (i.e., >distributed as then-copyrighted, not just performed on >the radio) before 1925 or earlier > b) purchase music made-for-hire > c) pay for performance rights, or > d) hire a commercial service, e.g., Muzak Another alernative is using various public/gov'tal broadcasts. for example, feeding out the NOAA weather forecast into your MOH. Or the time clock on WWV[H]. Or, for that matter, the Voice Of America [1] or the BBC. Or my favorite suggestion: rotate through the various foriegn gov't radio stations on the United State's (s)hit list. for better or worse, there are enough of these so you'd have a pretty good choice. for example, on Monday you could have Radio Havana; on Tues. Radio Iraq; Weds. Voice of the Taliban; Thurs. the Ben Ladin Hour; etc., etc. And nowadays, a great deal of this stuff is available through an internet feed, making reception a lot easier. [1] VOA isn't supposed to broadcast to the United States, but that's another story. All together. - -- _____________________________________________________ Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key dannyb@panix.com [to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded] - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 19 Dec 2000 22:07:16 -0500 From: Terry Kennedy Subject: Re: Finding Public Domain Music-On-Hold John David Galt writes: > So that's who keeps putting out that lie. > > A business that cared about its customers would hire enough people to > answer its calls immediately, every time -- or at the very least, would > install an answering machine so that its customers don't have to waste > unacceptable amounts of time waiting on hold. I think you're complaining about something else - probably an automated attendant. If you call a business and immediately get dumped into music, then they don't have enough people to answer the calls. This could either be due to an unsual condition (like an airline with a snowed-in hub airport) or just because they aren't paying attention to the average hold time. If it's the second case, it will likely correct itself over time - either they will lose enough customers that hold times go down, or they'll notice it and correct the problem (eventually). A national ISP's tech support hold time dropped from > 30 minutes to under a minute, but it took time to hire enough skilled people (about 4 months, if I remember correctly). In my (1-person) office I have music-on-hold. I answer all calls in person within 4 rings, but if someone asks a question that takes some research and they want an answer right away, they're getting put on hold so I can go col- lect the data. At a customer site where I installed an automated attendant (it's a school, and this way faculty members can be called directly, even when the part-time secretary isn't there), the same music-on-hold was added, as there is a very audible "kerchunk" when the AA signals the PBX to transfer the call, and with- out the music, people were thinking they were disconnected when they were only queued to the faculty member's phone. Regarding another poster's comment about conference calls - I dislike those calls more than I dislike music-on-hold, but that's just my opinion. Most folks with music-on-hold who participate in concalls know about this and just hit mute and put the phone down, rather than on hold. And the better automatic bridges let the call owner drop "problem" member calls for things like this. Of course, the managed/attended concall services can do that as well. Terry Kennedy http://www.tmk.com terry@tmk.com Jersey City, NJ USA - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 19 Dec 2000 23:57:18 -0500 From: msb@vex.net (Mark Brader) Subject: Re: Finding Public Domain Music-On-Hold John Bartley writes: > Well, since Public Law 105-298 (10/27/98) extended > copyrights, it looks like if we want to add > music-on-hold to our phone system we either > a) find sound recordings first 'fixed' (i.e., > distributed as then-copyrighted, not just performed on > the radio) before 1925 or earlier > b) purchase music made-for-hire > c) pay for performance rights, or > d) hire a commercial service, e.g., Muzak e) become musicians and make a new recording yourselves, either of your own composition or of something in the public domain. Personally, though, I agree with John McHarry: don't do that. Speaking of music-on-hold, I ran into something even more annoying earlier this month. One of my nieces was going to be given a sub- scription to Teen People magazine for Christmas. So we phoned 800-284-0200, and did not get a "cannot be reached from your area" (Canada) message -- so far so good. But what we did get was: (1) No ringback. (2) 33 seconds of instrumental music. (3) The recording "Your call cannot be completed at this time. Please try your call again later. Goodbye." (4) Hangup. I was annoyed enough to retry a lot of times over the next few days, figuring that at least I was costing them some money on each try. Always the same result (and always the same piece of music; sounds to me like the sort of thing a stage musician might use for an overture). But I never did get through. And since the recording doesn't identify who it is I'm calling, and since I got it just now when I tried again late at night, I have eventually begun to wonder if it was Bell Canada and not the subscription center that was generating what I heard. But if so, why? Can someone who knows about this tell me what's going on? - -- Mark Brader, Toronto | "...blind faith can ruin the eyesight-- msb@vex.net | and the perspective." --Robert Ludlum My text in this article is in the public domain. - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 20 Dec 2000 00:18:04 -0500 From: Terry Kennedy Subject: Re: Finding Public Domain Music-On-Hold Mark Brader writes: > (1) No ringback. > (2) 33 seconds of instrumental music. > (3) The recording "Your call cannot be completed at this time. Please > try your call again later. Goodbye." > (4) Hangup. > > I was annoyed enough to retry a lot of times over the next few days, > figuring that at least I was costing them some money on each try. > Always the same result (and always the same piece of music; sounds to > me like the sort of thing a stage musician might use for an overture). > > But I never did get through. And since the recording doesn't identify > who it is I'm calling, and since I got it just now when I tried again > late at night, I have eventually begun to wonder if it was Bell Canada > and not the subscription center that was generating what I heard. But > if so, why? Can someone who knows about this tell me what's going on? That sounds like some sort of "cheezebox" call diverter. I've run into them a number of times - they either play music or give you a fake ring while they take your call and try to call another number, to patch the two together. Another giveaway is that the call supervises immediately (not that this really matters when calling an 800 #). To another poster - I've occasionally called businesses that answer calls with an "all our representatives are currently comatose or loafing, please hold on, your call is unimportant to us" 8-) message followed by music. I put 'em on hold here and go about my business, flipping the call to my speakerphone every minute or so to see if anyone has shown up at the other end. So far, I've had 100% success in getting them to sit and listen to *my* "your call is important" message + music, though they're often baffled as to how that's happening on a call _inbound_ to them. I usually get these when I get a voicemail message like "This is an urgent message about your credit card - please call us at 888- xxx-xxxx" and it turns out they're trying to get me to do a balance xfer to them. Terry Kennedy http://www.tmk.com terry@tmk.com Jersey City, NJ USA - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 20 Dec 2000 04:32:12 -0500 From: Jack Hamilton Subject: Re: Finding Public Domain Music-On-Hold John Bartley wrote: >Feeling rather allergic to C) and D) (given my budget) >and not wishing to expose callers-on-hold to >commercial talk radio (I want them to LIKE us when >they get off hold), this leaves us: If you want me to like you, you won't have hold music at all, just a gently clicking sound so I'll know the line hasn't been dropped. I prefer to listen to the music playing in my office or house, not someone else's choice of (usually) loud, bad music. - -- Jack Hamilton Broderick, CA jfh@acm.org - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 20 Dec 2000 04:35:50 -0500 From: David Clayton Subject: Re: NYT: Stats of Cell Phone Use in Poorer Countries johnl@iecc.com (John R Levine) contributed the following: >> But Haiti is not alone. In much of Latin America wireless phone >> service subscribers account for about 60% of the total phone >> subscribers, and in Africa the growth rate in mobile phone was >> 116% last year. > >I've heard that in India and Bangladesh there are "phone ladies" who >rent a cell phone and go around town selling service by the call. ..... I remember seeing something on that on TV a while ago, it looked like a good use of the emerging technologies! - - - Regards, David. David Clayton, e-mail: dcstar@acslink.aone.net.au Melbourne, Victoria, Australia. Dilbert's words of wisdom #18: Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level then beat you with experience. - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 20 Dec 2000 04:56:07 -0500 From: msb@vex.net (Mark Brader) Subject: Re: NYT: Stats of Cell Phone Use in Poorer Countries > In a country like Haiti less than 1% of the nation's eight million > people have conventional, fixed-line phone service, and 400,000 > Haitians are on a waiting list ... I'm reminded of the following story that Miguel Cruz posted here last year... | Reminds me of a story from when I lived in Saudi Arabia in 1997. One | of my co-workers was having dinner at someone's home. Suddenly, three | men in ambiguous government uniforms burst into the house. Talking | only among themselves, they looked around for a while and then stomped | off into the back room. The stunned hosts and guest just sat there, | not knowing if they were going to be arrested, or what. There was some | noise in the back, and the wife wondered if something was happening to | her children, but her husband said he thought she better stay put in | the dining room. After a while, the men returned from the back, left | wordlessly through the front door, and drove away. | | The man went to the back room to see what had happened. When he came | back to the dining room, there were tears in his eyes. His wife, | fearing the worst, screamed. Trying to be calm, my co-worker put on | his most reassuring voice and asked the man what he had seen. | | "Our telephone!" the man gasped between tears of shock that soon | emerged as joy. "We ordered it in 1985! I'd totally forgotten about | it! It's finally here!" Reposted by: - -- Mark Brader "After all, it is necessary to get behind Toronto someone before you can stab them in the back." msb@vex.net -- Lynn & Jay, "Yes, Prime Minister" - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ End of Telecom Digest V2000 #161 ******************************** Date: 21 Dec 2000 06:15:10 -0500 From: owner-telecom-digest@telecom-digest.org (Telecom Digest) To: telecom-digest@telecom-digest.org Subject: Telecom Digest V2000 #162 Telecom Digest Thursday, December 21 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 162 In this issue: Re: Telecom Digest V2000 #159 Re: Finding Public Domain Music-On-Hold Re: Finding Public Domain Music-On-Hold Re: Finding Public Domain Music-On-Hold Re: Finding Public Domain Music-On-Hold Re: Message Mysteriously in Voice Mailbox - How? Finding the right Bellcore CallerID document Re: NYT: Stats of Cell Phone Use in Poorer Countries Re: Message Mysteriously in Voice Mailbox - How? Vantage NT3B01AA Re: Finding Public Domain Music-On-Hold Re: Finding Public Domain Music-On-Hold IMT-2000 Cell phones as telemarketer-avoidance devices, state laws? 12/20/00 ICBTollFreeNews.Com HEADS UP HEADLINES (plus a HUGE holiday discount) Re: Finding Public Domain Music-On-Hold Re: "Smart" Predictive Dialer? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 20 Dec 2000 07:23:42 -0500 From: johndunedin@drink.demon.co.uk (John Hein) Subject: Re: Telecom Digest V2000 #159 In message <20001218111518.6125.qmail@xuxa.iecc.com> owner-telecom-digest@telecom-digest.org (Telecom Digest) writes: > >In <5.0.0.25.0.20001215230144.00a08680@mailbox.verizon.net>, > > Gary Novosielski wrote: > >}Although the dial pulses did figure into the assignment of codes correlated > >}to traffic, area codes have always been listed in numerical order, and 201 > >}did, and still does top the list as the "lowest" number. In Strowger practice, surely 0 > 9? So, is there a 211 area code? - -- [ John Hein GM1YME | Phaggots do it on the phone! ] [ johndunedin@drink.demon.co.uk | Sine Pretio Loquimini Omnibus ] [ johndunedin@cix.compulink.co.uk| ] [ Telephone: +44 131 558 1279 |http://www.scotsgay.co.uk/people/john.html] [ TeleFax: +44 131 539 2999 | 43 B5/6 f+ t- w+ d g++ k- s++! r-- p ] [ Lambda BBS: +44 131 556 6316 | S8/9 b g- l y- z/ n o++ x-- a+ u- v- j++ ] - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 20 Dec 2000 08:31:01 -0500 From: stands2pee@my-Deja.com (Fair Dinkum) Subject: Re: Finding Public Domain Music-On-Hold On 19 Dec 2000 20:54:47 -0500, John David Galt wrote: >> You can buy one of 5 CD's with different types of music interspersed with >> "your call is very important to us, and we'll be right back" type messages >> from On Hold Plus for $19.95 each - see: >> http://onholdstore.com/holdware/musiconholdcds1.html > >So that's who keeps putting out that lie. > >A business that cared about its customers would hire enough people to >answer its calls immediately, every time -- or at the very least, would >install an answering machine so that its customers don't have to waste >unacceptable amounts of time waiting on hold. > >I dumped Wells Fargo Bank a couple of years ago (remember their ads >promising to pay $100 if you had to wait in line more than 10 minutes?) >because their so-called customer service line made me wait over an hour >multiple times -- and when I tried to work around it by going to the >bank in person, the tellers REFUSED TO DO THEIR JOB and insisted I >phone that same line from the bank! > LOL. I was on the verge of responding to a First Interstate Bank credit card offer when the news came out that Wells Fargo was taking them over. I immediately destroyed the entire mailer. - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 20 Dec 2000 09:49:57 -0500 From: Subject: Re: Finding Public Domain Music-On-Hold Jack Hamilton wrote: > John Bartley wrote: >>Feeling rather allergic to C) and D) (given my budget) >>and not wishing to expose callers-on-hold to >>commercial talk radio (I want them to LIKE us when >>they get off hold), this leaves us: > If you want me to like you, you won't have hold music at all, just a > gently clicking sound so I'll know the line hasn't been dropped. I > prefer to listen to the music playing in my office or house, not someone > else's choice of (usually) loud, bad music. My bank apparently installed a new system a few months ago. I called for some reason, and they had to put me on hold. The "music on hold" was some sort of slightly too loud random chime sounds. I told the clerk when she cam back on the line that it was the worst on-hold music I had ever heard and she said that others had been complaining too. I think they changed/dropped it soon after. On the good side, they do have a live person answer the phone and transfer calls. The only reason you get put on hold is if they have to go retrieve something, or call another department to answer your question. It's a local bank, but the service is first rate. Better than any large US bank I've ever dealt with. - -- ***************************************************************************** * Bill Ranck +1-540-231-3951 ranck@vt.edu * * Virginia Polytechnic Institute & State University, Computing Center * ***************************************************************************** - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 20 Dec 2000 11:57:32 -0500 From: John Bartley Subject: Re: Finding Public Domain Music-On-Hold On 19 Dec 2000 21:58:31 -0500, dannyb@panix.com (danny burstein) wrote: >Another alernative is using various public/gov'tal broadcasts. for >example, feeding out the NOAA weather forecast into your MOH. Or the time >clock on WWV[H]. Or, for that matter, the Voice Of America [1] or the BBC. Sorry, but no AM reception, and weak FM reception, in our Zone-Three quake-reinforced steel frame building core. The NOAA VHF was my first thought; bought a radio, decent reception outside building core, but zippo in the phone room. Ditto for the old Sony shortwave I brought in. Sigh. >Or my favorite suggestion: rotate through the various foriegn gov't radio >stations on the United State's (s)hit list. for better or worse, there are >enough of these so you'd have a pretty good choice. > >for example, on Monday you could have Radio Havana; on Tues. Radio >Iraq; Weds. Voice of the Taliban; Thurs. the Ben Ladin Hour; etc., etc. Again, we want callers to LIKE us when they can get through to the specific person they are trying to reach. >And nowadays, a great deal of this stuff is available through an internet >feed, making reception a lot easier. If I had the bandwidth to spare.... but I don't. Horrible latency problems and router storms, besides. >[1] VOA isn't supposed to broadcast to the United States, but that's >another story. All together. Sorry, that's my story, as this is for a public agency bound to observe that. ===== - -- "We should call this Year One of Day One." RAH to Uncle Walter, 1969-07-20 John Bartley, NT sysadmin, Portland OR (503) BAR-TLEY __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 20 Dec 2000 12:39:57 -0500 From: jay@west.net (Jay Hennigan) Subject: Re: Finding Public Domain Music-On-Hold On 20 Dec 2000 04:32:12 -0500, Jack Hamilton wrote: :If you want me to like you, you won't have hold music at all, just a :gently clicking sound so I'll know the line hasn't been dropped. Like the warm, melodious thumpa-thumpa-thumpa of a 1A2 interrupter winking the hold lamps that we all used to love. Maybe we can get Mike Sandman to come up with an interrupter-wink-hold-crosstalk-simulator that plugs in to the MOH port for a bit of nostalgia. - -- Jay Hennigan - Network Administration - jay@west.net NetLojix Communications, Inc. NASDAQ: NETX - http://www.netlojix.com/ WestNet: Connecting you to the planet. 805 884-6323 - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 20 Dec 2000 13:00:07 -0500 From: "Pete Ritter" Subject: Re: Message Mysteriously in Voice Mailbox - How? Interesting. Except my wife has Sprint PCS and according to her VMbox, the call that left the message came from a phone in a SW Bell service area. I don't know if Mexico has the feature you describe. If it did, would it work across int'l boundaries? messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 20 Dec 2000 13:39:34 -0500 From: "Stephido" Subject: Finding the right Bellcore CallerID document Hi, I have been looking for the Bellcore standards on the CallerID implementation and behavior. I found three documents (listed below) but I only have the title and no abstract or description. Before purchasing them, is there a way to verify that the documents are truly what I am looking for? My distributor (Global Engineering Documents, An IHS Company) has no more information. Is there a web site (other then Telcordia) or other means for information that exist? TR-TSY-000031, (now call Bellcore GR31) "CLASS(sm) Feature: Calling Number Delivery", Issue 2, June 1988, + Revision 1, January 1990 TA-NWT-001188, "CLASS(sm) Calling Name Delivery and Related Features", Issue 1, March 1991 {Waiting for Industry Comments} TR-NWT-000030, (now call Bellcore GR30)"Voiceband Data Transmission Interface Generic Requirements", Issue 2, October 1992 Thanks Stephido - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 20 Dec 2000 13:43:00 -0500 From: Jeffrey C Honig Subject: Re: NYT: Stats of Cell Phone Use in Poorer Countries msb@vex.net (Mark Brader) writes: > I'm reminded of the following story that Miguel Cruz posted here > last year... > > | Reminds me of a story from when I lived in Saudi Arabia in 1997. One > | of my co-workers was having dinner at someone's home. Suddenly, three > | men in ambiguous government uniforms burst into the house. .... > | "Our telephone!" the man gasped between tears of shock that soon > | emerged as joy. "We ordered it in 1985! I'd totally forgotten about > | it! It's finally here!" Aren't Verizon employees required to show ID before then enter a residence? ;-) Thanks. Jeff - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 20 Dec 2000 14:32:23 -0500 From: tweek@fnord.io.com (Mike Maxfield) Subject: Re: Message Mysteriously in Voice Mailbox - How? "Pete Ritter" writes: >Interesting. Except my wife has Sprint PCS and according to her VMbox, the >call that left the message came from a phone in a SW Bell service area. Should matter what she had. When the hookflash is used on the other end, the current call is placed on hold and the person gets a redial tone. If the person then hangs up, his own local CO rings the phone back and upon answering is connected to the call he put on hold with the hook flash. The other end of the connection is doing nothing other than sitting on hold during the period. >I don't know if Mexico has the feature you describe. If it did, would it >work across int'l boundaries? For other telco features I don't know if you would consider it an international boundry since it is the same North American scheme, but in this case, it would work across PBX's, radio phone, and whatever other configuration you can think of since as far as the circuits between your wife's mailbox and the remote end of the circuit goes, the circuit was connected the entire time, put on hold at the caller's CO when it gave him a second dialtone/ - -- tweek@io.com - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 20 Dec 2000 16:22:50 -0500 From: "Ian McNabb" Subject: Vantage NT3B01AA All, I do not know if this is the proper newsgroup to be posting this, but I am looking for information on a Vantage 4 port phone system model NT3B01AA. I have uncovered this phone system in the basement of our offices and was wondering if it was possible to set this up in my house. There are approximately 20 sets with the system model number NT0B02AB, which would be more than adequate to cover all the rooms in my house :-) If anyone has any information on how to utilize this system, can point me to manuals, FAQ's, etc, can you please email me at imcnabb@pricedex.com. Thanks in Advance Ian McNabb - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 20 Dec 2000 17:30:57 -0500 From: "Chris Ornellas" Subject: Re: Finding Public Domain Music-On-Hold Volume fluctuations in the level of the Music On Hold are caused by the types, distance and quality of near-end and far-end CO switches. This can also be influenced by poor recordings, improper impedance matching between the M.O.H. source and the KSU/ PBX. don't blame it all on the installer because there are other conditions that affect M.O.H quality that are out of an installers control. You can't please everyone all of the time, so try to please yourself and the person who is paying the invoices. "John McHarry" wrote in message news:3k204tscaauobpcram8qugvournij60lv9@4ax.com... > On 19 Dec 2000 18:15:54 -0500, John Bartley > wrote: > > >Well, since Public Law 105-298 (10/27/98) extended > >copyrights, it looks like if we want to add > >music-on-hold to our phone system we either... > > I find music on hold irritating. It is usually far too loud and > interrupted with speech that sounds like you have finally cut through. > Also, it destroys conference calls. If someone in the conference puts > it on hold, everyone else is drowned out by music. Just say, no > thanks. > -- > The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail > messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 20 Dec 2000 17:37:34 -0500 From: "Chris Ornellas" Subject: Re: Finding Public Domain Music-On-Hold How about just programming your KSU/PBX to produce 'Tone On Hold' when someone is put on hold. This is usually under line programming or system programming. "John Bartley" wrote in message news:20001219230337.16008.qmail@web2002.mail.yahoo.com... > Well, since Public Law 105-298 (10/27/98) extended > copyrights, it looks like if we want to add > music-on-hold to our phone system we either > a) find sound recordings first 'fixed' (i.e., > distributed as then-copyrighted, not just performed on > the radio) before 1925 or earlier > b) purchase music made-for-hire > c) pay for performance rights, or > d) hire a commercial service, e.g., Muzak > > Feeling rather allergic to C) and D) (given my budget) > and not wishing to expose callers-on-hold to > commercial talk radio (I want them to LIKE us when > they get off hold), this leaves us: > > A) Anyone have any pre-1925 shellac (certainly not > vinyl...) and a turntable they would not mind > transcribing to audio cassette? Once done, I will > take them home, convert them to MP3 files and post > them in an appropriate alt.binaries forum (not here - > though I will post a notice here so y'all can get > them), so folks can download and convert back to audio > CD, or use as is with MP3 player software in an > obsolete PC, a CD/MP3 player (now <$100!) or such. > > B) > has a selection of public domain stuph for $25 per CD. > > Any other sources you can think of? > > > ===== > -- > "We should call this Year One of Day One." > RAH to Uncle Walter, 1969-07-20 > John Bartley, NT sysadmin, Portland OR (503) BAR-TLEY > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. > http://shopping.yahoo.com/ > -- > The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail > messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 20 Dec 2000 17:40:34 -0500 From: "IMT-2000-online" Subject: IMT-2000 Hello, As you perhaps already know, the third generation mobile phones are just about to be brought out. According to the International Telecommunications Union (ITU), the name given to the system will be IMT-2000. If you want to learn a little bit more about IMT-2000, to see how the future terminals will look like or to a watch a video that explains how IMT-2000 will change our everyday life, just have a look at our site: www.IMT-2000-online.com Thank you... Laurent HERMOYE IMT-2000-online e - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 20 Dec 2000 20:20:07 -0500 From: djb0x77376989@scream.org (Dan Birchall) Subject: Cell phones as telemarketer-avoidance devices, state laws? Like most other multicellular life forms in the galaxy, I have an electronic lea...er, cell phone. I have noted that the TCPA makes it a Bad Idea to call said phone using a sequential- or random-dialer or an automated voice recording, and have started using it as the number-of-choice when someone "needs" my number. Rationale: if I'm gonna get telemarketed, I may as well get paid. I know various states also have laws criminalizing certain abusive telemarketing practices. Hawaii's laws do not address cell phones; I'm curious as to whether anyone else's states have laws which address the cost-shifting element of telemarketing calls to phone numbers where the recipient pays for airtime. - -Dan - -- Dan Birchall - Palolo Valley - Honolulu HI - http://dan.scream.org/ Peruse my opinions, at http://dbirchall.epinions.com/user-dbirchall Corporate Holidays 2001 - http://208.184.171.20/articles/262573.htm My addresses expire... take out the hex stamp if your reply bounces - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 20:51:01 -0500 From: "Judith Oppenheimer" Subject: 12/20/00 ICBTollFreeNews.Com HEADS UP HEADLINES (plus a HUGE holiday discount) ____________________________________________________ ICBTollFreeNews.Com HEADS UP HEADLINES ____________________________________________________ from ICB Toll Free News - Daily News and Intelligence covering the Political, Legal and Marketing Arenas of 800 and Dot Com. ____________________________________________________ !!! A HOLIDAY GIFT !!! (from 'the Present Isn't Wrapped Yet' department) While our webmasters toil diligently to program your gift into our system, why should you wait ... ?! Subscribe to ICB Premium between now and January 6, 2001, ___________ for only $149 dollars ! ______________ Read ALL ARTICLES, get FULL SITE ACCESS, for twelve months ! Order at http://www.icbtollfree.com/order.cfm, and write '$149 GIFT' next to your name. 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CONTINUED HERE: http://www.icbtollfree.com/article.cfm?articleId=4916 P - NUMBER RECLAMATION The move is the first under new rules that require a carrier to begin using a prefix within 6 months of being assigned. CONTINUED HERE: http://www.icbtollfree.com/article.cfm?articleId=4915 F - INTERNET NOTABLES TO SPEAK AT IP MANAGEMENT CONFERENCE Among the roster at this conference on intellectual property: Karl Auerbach, Carl Oppedahl, Bret Fausett, and controversial WG-B Chair Michael Palage. CONTINUED HERE: http://www.icbtollfree.com/article.cfm?articleId=4913 F - 1-800-TAXICAB PARTNERS WITH COORS FOR DRUNK DRIVING CAMPAIGN The initiative encourages people to use taxicabs when they've had too much to drink. "Taxis are great designated drivers!,'' says 1-800-TAXICAB CEO, Mark Adkins. CONTINUED HERE: http://www.icbtollfree.com/article.cfm?articleId=4912 F - P&G SELLS FLU.COM According to the company's listings at GreatDomains, P&G asked more than $1 million apiece for names including "romantic.com" and "sensitive.com." The company is asking $3 million for "beautiful.com." P&G executives declined to disclose the sales price of flu.com on Monday, but a source advised ICB, "it was one of the top prices paid for a domain name." The name was sold to a pharmaceutical company. CONTINUED HERE: http://www.icbtollfree.com/article.cfm?articleId=4911 F - 'BEFUDDLED' BY FCC DICTUM Neither of these abuses provides a logical or rational basis for making the toll-free subscriber/end-user a "straw man" in which to blame for these problems. CONTINUED HERE: http://www.icbtollfree.com/article.cfm?articleId=4914 _______________notices from our sponsors_______________ Are you a local or regional business that advertises in newspapers, direct mail, on radio or tv? 1 800 BRAND IT shared use marketing programs can help your sales skyrocket! http://www.1800BrandIt.com ____________________________________________________ 800 RATE NEGOTIATION EXPERTISE If your usage contract is coming to an end we can help you get the very best rate from your existing or new vendor. We charge $125 per hour. No fee if you choose a vendor we represent. Telemanagement, Inc. http://www.sdtele.com ____________________________________________________ IS YOUR BUSINESS LISTED? The Internet 800 Directory lists hundreds of thousands of toll free numbers and is viewed by millions each month. The Internet 800 Directory will list ANY business with a toll free number, regardless of long distance carrier, for free and was the first to do so. Go to http://gotollfree.com and see if your toll free number is listed. If not, click the Add Listing button to submit your toll free number for this free listing. ____________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________ ABOUT ICB ICB HeadsUp Headlines Daily Email is sent by request. Subscriptions to Daily Email are free to qualified applicants. Visit http://www.icbtollfree.com/reg.cfm?NextURL=Index.cfm to sign up. Please feel free to pass along a copy to a friend, within reason so long as the message is not modified or used unfavorably. To unsubscribe mailto:editor@icbtollfree.com, subject: unsubscribe. ___________________ ADVERTISING INFORMATION ___________________ For information on advertising in ICB HeadsUp Headlines emails, see http://www.icbtollfree.com/ArticleId4415.html ____________________________________________________ Only subscribers or registered users of ICB Toll Free News web site will be able to access all or some of the full text of URLs provided. ____________________________________________________ Copyright © 2000 ICB, Inc. All rights reserved. ____________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: 20 Dec 2000 22:04:13 -0500 From: John Nagle Subject: Re: Finding Public Domain Music-On-Hold danny burstein wrote: > Another alernative is using various public/gov'tal broadcasts. for > example, feeding out the NOAA weather forecast into your MOH. Or the time > clock on WWV[H]. Or, for that matter, the Voice Of America [1] or the BBC. My favorite comment on that was from a news report from someone who was having trouble getting a security deposit back from a landlord. During a long period on hold, listening to a radio station, a public service announcement came on: "Having trouble getting your security deposit back? That's illegal. We can help. Contact the Department of Consumer Affairs at 1-800....". John Nagle - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 21 Dec 2000 04:23:58 -0500 From: David Lind Subject: Re: "Smart" Predictive Dialer? In article , "M H" wrote: > OK, a question for all you folks who have some knowledge of predictive > dialers (I won't ask who actually works with them; I bet no one would admit > it anyway!). > > Are any predictive dialers "smart" enough to understand the > three-rising-tone intercept that generally indicates a disconnected phone > line ("boob-bob-beep! We're sorry, the number you have dialed..." yadda > yadda yadda) and place that number in its 'do not call' database? I've done > a quickie check on web sites but haven't found any explicit mention. > Not sure, but here are a couple of websites where you might find this info. from Telemarketing Scum Page - Tech Data Address:http://www.scn.org/~bk269/data.html The AntiTelemarketer's Source Address:http://www.antitelemarketer.com/indexd.htm - -- David Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ End of Telecom Digest V2000 #162 ******************************** Date: 22 Dec 2000 06:15:15 -0500 From: owner-telecom-digest@telecom-digest.org (Telecom Digest) To: telecom-digest@telecom-digest.org Subject: Telecom Digest V2000 #163 Telecom Digest Friday, December 22 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 163 In this issue: 211 code Re: Telecom Digest V2000 #159 Re: Finding Public Domain Music-On-Hold 3.1KHz audio calls Re: Finding Public Domain Music-On-Hold Re: 211 code Use of "211" (was Re: Telecom Digest V2000 #159) Re: 211 code 12/21/00 ICBTollFreeNews.Com HEADS UP HEADLINES (plus a Great Holiday Sale!) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 21 Dec 2000 09:09:03 -0500 From: jsw@ivgate.omahug.org Subject: 211 code >So, is there a 211 area code? Nope. In the states, prior to the widespread deployment of Direct Distance Dialing, 211 reached the toll operator in many Ma Bell communities (and some independents I would guess too). I seem to recall this in some areas as late as the early 1970s. Good day JSW - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 21 Dec 2000 09:19:06 -0500 From: Wes Leatherock Subject: Re: Telecom Digest V2000 #159 On 20 Dec 2000 07:23:42 -0500 John Hein wrote: > In message <20001218111518.6125.qmail@xuxa.iecc.com> owner-telecom-digest@telecom-digest.org (Telecom Digest) writes: > > >In <5.0.0.25.0.20001215230144.00a08680@mailbox.verizon.net>, > > > Gary Novosielski wrote: > > >}Although the dial pulses did figure into the assignment of codes correlated > > >}to traffic, area codes have always been listed in numerical order, and 201 > > >}did, and still does top the list as the "lowest" number. > > In Strowger practice, surely 0 > 9? > > So, is there a 211 area code? > > -- > > [ John Hein GM1YME | Phaggots do it on the phone! ] No, all the X11 codes were reserved for service codes; most of them were already in use long before area codes were established. For example, 211 reached the toll operator; 411 reached "Information" ("Inquries" in the U.K., I believe), now called Directory Assistance. In a lot of places 611 reached Repair Service and in some cases 811 reached the Business Office. That was in non-step offices. Step offices usually used 110 for toll, 113 for Directory Assistance and 114 for Repair Service. 411 or 1+411 is still used for Directory Assistance. In some places there have been suggestions, and perhaps some sales, of the X11 codes for commercial purposes, not as area codes but in effect as brief, and therefore very desirable, telephone numbers. 911 is now pretty well standardized in the U.S.A. as the emergency assistance number. Wes Leatherock wleath@sandbox.dynip.com - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 21 Dec 2000 09:23:39 -0500 From: Wes Leatherock Subject: Re: Finding Public Domain Music-On-Hold On 19 Dec 2000 18:15:54 -0500 John Bartley wrote: > Well, since Public Law 105-298 (10/27/98) extended > copyrights, it looks like if we want to add > music-on-hold to our phone system we either > a) find sound recordings first 'fixed' (i.e., > distributed as then-copyrighted, not just performed on > the radio) before 1925 or earlier > b) purchase music made-for-hire > c) pay for performance rights, or > d) hire a commercial service, e.g., Muzak Isn't there still public domain music available? Some 10 or 15 years ago, when I was involved in industrial TV production, some for in-house use, some for public distribution, there were sources to buy music of various types that was written and recorded in the public domain specifically for background and theme music and similar uses. Wes Leatherock wleath@sandbox.dynip.com - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 21 Dec 2000 10:29:13 -0500 From: "Steve C" Subject: 3.1KHz audio calls I have been dealing with maintainers of a Mitel iMAGINATION who are stating that their PBX will only make 3.1KHz audio calls from their analogue lines. They are quoting ETSI specifications and claiming that making an ordinary speech call would not be within spec where modems and fax machines are involved. I know of one site with an ISLX PBX that rejects 3.1KHz audio calls as incompatible with its equipment. Does anyone have information on what PBX systems will support 3.1KHz audio calls? How about relevant information from the ETSI specifications? - -- Regards Steve Croft - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 21 Dec 2000 10:53:20 -0500 From: hollaar@faith.cs.utah.edu (Lee Hollaar) Subject: Re: Finding Public Domain Music-On-Hold In article <20001219230337.16008.qmail@web2002.mail.yahoo.com> John Bartley writes: >Well, since Public Law 105-298 (10/27/98) extended >copyrights, it looks like if we want to add >music-on-hold to our phone system we either > a) find sound recordings first 'fixed' (i.e., >distributed as then-copyrighted, not just performed on >the radio) before 1925 or earlier > b) purchase music made-for-hire > c) pay for performance rights, or > d) hire a commercial service, e.g., Muzak First, the disclaimer. I am not a lawyer, and this is not legal advice. But I do teach intellectual property law at the University of Utah's School of Computing, and so can point you to parts of the copyright laws that aren't well-understood by laymen, so you can discuss them with your legal counsel. There are a number of ways you can infringe a copyright without making a copy of a work. One of these is the public performance of the work, such as playing it on music-on-hold. (There is a case from the U.S. District Court in Minnesota that confirms that music-on-hold is a public performance, and not covered by the exception that permits a company to play a radio in a public place -- _Prophet Music Inc. v. Shamla Oil Co. Inc._, 26 USPQ2d 1554.) The curious thing about the public performance right is that it does not apply to sound recordings, unless it is a digital audio transmission. The copyright to a sound recording covers what was fixed on the particular record. So you can publicly perform sound recordings on music-on-hold without infringing their copyright. But that doesn't end the question, because there may be a copyright on the music that was recorded on the sound recording, and that copyright *is* infringed by public performance. So, you likely can play a sound recording whose underlying music is not copyrighted, either as an original composition or a new arrangement. And maybe your clients will like listening to classical music. You can find an online copy of the Copyright Act at: http://www.loc.gov/copyright/title17/ Remember, this isn't legal advice, just a pointer to something you might want to discuss with your legal counsel. - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 21 Dec 2000 11:28:39 -0500 From: Stanley Cline Subject: Re: 211 code jsw@ivgate.omahug.org wrote: > >So, is there a 211 area code? > > Nope. In the states, prior to the widespread deployment of Direct > Distance Dialing, 211 reached the toll operator in many Ma Bell > communities (and some independents I would guess too). I seem to > recall this in some areas as late as the early 1970s. Nowadays, 211 is used by COCOTs to reach refund/repair, and the FCC has earmarked 211 for use in reaching "community information and referral services" (in Atlanta, 211 goes to a United Way "helpline".) - -SC - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 21 Dec 2000 13:06:03 -0500 From: "David L Kindred \(Dave\)" Subject: Use of "211" (was Re: Telecom Digest V2000 #159) >>>>> "John" == John Hein writes: John> So, is there a 211 area code? No, 211 is part of the n11 block of special numbers. There should be plenty of messages in the Archive about the various n11 usages, but a few common ones (either in the past or the present): 411 Directory Assistance (AKA Information) 611 Telephone Repair 911 Emergency (Police/Fire/Ambulance) - -- David L. Kindred mailto:d.kindred@telesciences.com Unix Systems & Network Administrator Telesciences, Inc. Phone: +1 856 642 4184 2000 Midlantic Drive, Suite 410 Fax: +1 856 866 0185 Mount Laurel, NJ 08054 USA - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 21 Dec 2000 22:15:23 -0500 From: djb0x77376989@scream.org (Dan Birchall) Subject: Re: 211 code jsw@ivgate.omahug.org wrote: > > >So, is there a 211 area code? > > Nope. In the states, prior to the widespread deployment of Direct > Distance Dialing, 211 reached the toll operator in many Ma Bell > communities (and some independents I would guess too). I seem to > recall this in some areas as late as the early 1970s. According to http://www.nanpa.com/number_resource_info/n11_codes.html the FCC administers N11 codes in the USA, and recognizes 211 as a nationally assigned (which does NOT mean nationally implemented, so don't complain if it doesn't work where you are :) code for "Community Information and Referral Services" - whatever THAT means. This puts it in roughly the same category as 311 (Non-Emergency Police and Other Governmental Services), 511 (Traffic and Transportation Information), 711 (Telecommunications Relay Service) and 811 (Business Office) - N11 services that a lot of people have never heard of. Not to be confused with the much more widely known 411, 611 and 911. Speaking of nationally assigned NOT meaning nationally implemented, Verizon Hawaii routes 511 to Relay Service too. Feh. We could *really* use some traffic and transportation info, guys! Of course, the NANPA site indicates that 211 and 511 were just recently nationally assigned... - -Dan - -- Dan Birchall - Palolo Valley - Honolulu HI - http://dan.scream.org/ Peruse my opinions, at http://dbirchall.epinions.com/user-dbirchall Corporate Holidays 2001 - http://208.184.171.20/articles/262573.htm My addresses expire... take out the hex stamp if your reply bounces - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 23:39:19 -0500 From: "Judith Oppenheimer" Subject: 12/21/00 ICBTollFreeNews.Com HEADS UP HEADLINES (plus a Great Holiday Sale!) ____________________________________________________ ICBTollFreeNews.Com HEADS UP HEADLINES ____________________________________________________ from ICB Toll Free News - Daily News and Intelligence covering the Political, Legal and Marketing Arenas of 800 and Dot Com. ____________________________________________________ Been waiting for a sale? ICB is DEEPLY Discounted for the Holidays !! Limited time offer: http://www.icbtollfree.com/Article_4910.html ____________________________________________________ CONTENTS - - 855 REPLY COMMENTS - - DOT BIZ DISPUTE ATTRACTS MAINSTREAM PRESS ATTENTION - - DAVID V. GOLIATH, DOT COM - - APRES MARINA DEL REY: NOTES FROM A WEARY TRAVELLER - - NAMES COUNCIL WORKING GROUP FORMED ___________________________________________________ CUSTOMER SERVICE NOTES: With over 4,000 articles archived, ICB is a popular research destination. Find all ICB headlines: http://www.icbtollfree.com/icbheadlns.cfm, or use ICB's search engine: http://icbtollfree.com/Search.cfm. Note: Registration is required. Contact information is NOT sold, leased, rented or shared in any manner. Buying, selling, seeking, announcing? ICB offers FREE classifieds: http://ICBclassifieds.com. _______________notices from our sponsors_______________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://1800TheExpert.com <<<<<<<<<<<<< 800 & Domain Name Acquisition Management, Lost/Stolen 800 # Retrieval, Litigation Support, Regulatory Navigation, Correlating Domain Name & Trademark Matters. ____________________________________________________ EVERY 3.6 SECONDS SOMEONE DIES FROM HUNGER http://www.hungersite.com/ ____________________________________________________ ARTICLE ACCESS CODE LEGEND ICB Toll Free News offers two valuable service options: F = Free - News and Features articles P = Premium - Unlimited Site Access including all Articles and Documents. ____________________________________________________ HEADLINES for December 21, 2000 P - 855 REPLY COMMENTS ATIS provided information regarding its sponsored committee - the SMS Number Administration Committee (SNAC) and the SNAC's processes and role in the 855 release decision. CONTINUED HERE: http://www.icbtollfree.com/article.cfm?articleId=4920 F - DOT BIZ DISPUTE ATTRACTS MAINSTREAM PRESS ATTENTION ICANN has recognized other domains that exist outside of its addressing system. At its meeting last month, ICANN board members decided not to approve the domain .web for use because it was already administered by another company. ICANN officials were not available for comment CONTINUED HERE: http://www.icbtollfree.com/article.cfm?articleId=4921 F - DAVID V. GOLIATH, DOT COM "We now are awaiting a federal court judge's decision that will set a precedent we expect will have ramifications for all future US citizens who become victims of cyberpiracy." In addition, this will be the first test of the rights of a US citizen vs a foreign trademark holder in a domain case. CONTINUED HERE: http://www.icbtollfree.com/article.cfm?articleId=4917 F - APRES MARINA DEL REY: NOTES FROM A WEARY TRAVELLER ICANN had managed to alienate the administrators of the world's country-specific domains by sending them bills rather than asking for contributions... it alienated the people who just learned about ICANN through the At Large election process by projecting an image of fighting tooth and nail against granting the At Large-elected members influence over ICANN decisions, and delaying the implementation of such influence whenever possible... it alienated most of the individuals wanting to contribute in the Domain Names Supporting Organization through a convoluted "interest group" structure that seems designed to produce deadlocks rather than consensus. It has managed to leave itself without any certain source of income, meaning that it has to depend on "emergency" gifts from donors who think the alternative of seeing ICANN go down in flames would be worse than the status quo. It managed to convey the impression that all these problems have taken them by surprise. And the week hadn't started yet. A must-read chronicle by Harald Alvestrand. CONTINUED HERE: http://www.icbtollfree.com/article.cfm?articleId=4917 F - NAMES COUNCIL WORKING GROUP FORMED ICANN's secretive Names Council says its reviewing its internal consensus-building procedures, and has formed a working group ... It *is* chaired by the credible Y J Park, and so is worthy of attention if not participation. CONTINUED HERE: http://www.icbtollfree.com/article.cfm?articleId=4919 _______________notices from our sponsors_______________ Are you a local or regional business that advertises in newspapers, direct mail, on radio or tv? 1 800 BRAND IT shared use marketing programs can help your sales skyrocket! http://www.1800BrandIt.com ____________________________________________________ 800 RATE NEGOTIATION EXPERTISE If your usage contract is coming to an end we can help you get the very best rate from your existing or new vendor. We charge $125 per hour. No fee if you choose a vendor we represent. Telemanagement, Inc. http://www.sdtele.com ____________________________________________________ IS YOUR BUSINESS LISTED? The Internet 800 Directory lists hundreds of thousands of toll free numbers and is viewed by millions each month. The Internet 800 Directory will list ANY business with a toll free number, regardless of long distance carrier, for free and was the first to do so. 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All rights reserved. ____________________________________________________ ------------------------------ End of Telecom Digest V2000 #163 ******************************** Date: 23 Dec 2000 06:15:18 -0500 From: owner-telecom-digest@telecom-digest.org (Telecom Digest) To: telecom-digest@telecom-digest.org Subject: Telecom Digest V2000 #164 Telecom Digest Saturday, December 23 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 164 In this issue: Re: Finding the right Bellcore CallerID document Where can I find a Network Based ACD? Re: 211 code Re: 211 code "Low" numbers Re: Finding Public Domain Music-On-Hold fyi, at least one Attorney General sues AT&T Re: 3.1KHz audio calls Re: Finding Public Domain Music-On-Hold Re: Finding Public Domain Music-On-Hold jackass story 12/22/00 ICBTollFreeNews.Com HEADS UP HEADLINES POTS line terminations. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 22 Dec 2000 07:39:07 -0500 From: John Adams Subject: Re: Finding the right Bellcore CallerID document Stephido et. al. Depending on how deep you want to go will determine what you want. If you're interested in procedural (UI) as well as TCAP messaging between the switches, buy the GR31 document. If you also want to know how Calling Name (AIN or LIDB lookup) TCAP works, get the 1188 document. If you're designing CallerID boxes or the equipment in the switch that encodes the data, get a copy of GR80 for specific info on encoding and timing of the data signals. Hope this helps ... Stephido wrote: > Hi, > > I have been looking for the Bellcore standards on the CallerID > implementation and behavior. I found three documents (listed below) but I > only have the title and no abstract or description. > > Thanks > > Stephido > -- > The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail > messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. - -- John "Jack" Adams, Lucent Technologies, Inc. +1.732.224.8045 +1.732.224.8077 (fax) +1.908.568.1453 (mobile) 9085681453@mobile.att.net (SMS) jackadams@lucent.com 200 Schultz Drive, Room 3A-109C Red Bank, NJ 07701-6745 The power of accurate observation is often called cynicism by those who haven't got it. -- George Bernard Shaw - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 22 Dec 2000 13:10:10 -0500 From: "Jim Cheshire" Subject: Where can I find a Network Based ACD? Can anyone point me to a vendor that provides a network-based ACD? I would like to have geographically distributed agents served by the same ACD. I'd rather not purchase a CPE-based system to do this. Thanks in advance, Jim - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 22 Dec 2000 13:57:55 -0500 From: David Lind Subject: Re: 211 code In article , djb0x77376989@scream.org wrote: (snip) > > Speaking of nationally assigned NOT meaning nationally implemented, > Verizon Hawaii routes 511 to Relay Service too. Feh. We could > *really* use some traffic and transportation info, guys! > > Of course, the NANPA site indicates that 211 and 511 were just > recently nationally assigned... > Hi Dan, a basic question... Dialed 511 with a Verizon cell phone here on the mainland and got a dial tone. Can make 7 digit local calls only. Would obtaining a dial tone with cellular have any useful purpose, like data calls? - -- Thanks, David Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 22 Dec 2000 14:03:12 -0500 From: jsw@ivgate.omahug.org Subject: Re: 211 code > >Nope. In the states, prior to the widespread deployment of Direct > >Distance Dialing, 211 reached the toll operator in many Ma Bell > >communities (and some independents I would guess too). I seem to > >recall this in some areas as late as the early 1970s. > Is this the equivalent of "00" which now gets you to your LD operator? Uh, depends on how you look at it, I suppose. 211 was back in the Old Days, right at the advent of customer dialed LD calls, but certainly in the days of 'one system, one solution, one attitude', and 00 (which I can never remember actually using) is in the days of competitive carriers and the like. (Dusting off rusty memory cells.) I'm trying to remember when zero-plus calling was first used. Back in NYC in maybe 1967 or 1968 I remember what they called 'Extended Direct Distance Dialing'. For operator-assisted calls, you would dial 0-NPA-NNX-XXXX (yes, it was NNX then ;-) and the operator would break in and ask if it was collect or person or whatever. This was only on some of the 5xb offices, iirc. Also, iirc, panel subs would dial 0 for long distance. Station calls were dialed NPA-NNX-XXXX with NO leading 1. I do remember the timeout on the dialing of 0 really threw some people who were used to dialing zero and immediately hearing click-clack-click-rrring of the operator. I'm trying to remember when 00 dialing first showed up. I suppose it had to be in the 80's right after the Great Breakup when the local operators were split off from the toll operators. I'm very fuzzy on this one. Good day JSW - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 22 Dec 2000 14:35:30 -0500 From: Gary Novosielski Subject: "Low" numbers On 20 Dec 2000 07:23:42 (-0500) johndunedin@drink.demon.co.uk (John Hein) wrote: >So, is there a 211 area code? No. In the North American Numbering Plan, all the N11 codes are reserved for special service codes. Currently only 411 (directory assistance) and 911 (police/fire/medical emergency) are in use with anything like nationwide consistency. - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 22 Dec 2000 14:35:47 -0500 From: Gary Novosielski Subject: Re: Finding Public Domain Music-On-Hold On 20 Dec 2000 11:57:32 (-0500) John Bartley wrote: >Sorry, but no AM reception, and weak FM reception, in >our Zone-Three quake-reinforced steel frame building >core. The NOAA VHF was my first thought; bought a >radio, decent reception outside building core, but >zippo in the phone room. Ditto for the old Sony >shortwave I brought in. Sigh. Too bad there are no copper wires running from your phone room to the outside world, or you might be able to use one for a long-wire external antenna. - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 22 Dec 2000 14:44:26 -0500 From: danny burstein Subject: fyi, at least one Attorney General sues AT&T AT&T, along with the other telcos we deal with, often seem to rank in sleaziness just one step above political campaigners. Some people would say I'm being too kind, and place them below Darth Vader. AT&T in particular has sent bills for non existent account services to both my work site and to me at home. Fortunately, my employer's finance dep't caught the ones sent to the office. I forwarded complaints to the Public Service Commission as well as lots of others, concerned that this was a deliberate policy of AT&T's anticipating that many people would simply pay. The assistance we received made me thank, once again, Ron Lauder for pushing through political term limits. Anyway, Ct. Attorney General Richard Blumenthal listened to his conscience and filed suit. With a bit of luck NYS and maybe the Feds will follow: Connecticut Attorney General's Office Press Release Attorney General Files Suit Against AT&T December 20, 2000 Attorney General Richard Blumenthal today announced the state has amended its lawsuit against telephone giant AT&T to include allegations that AT&T falsely billed Connecticut consumers for services never ordered. "Our investigation shows that AT&T is bilking Connecticut consumers out of money that the company did not earn and does not deserve," Blumenthal said. "I am appalled that this long distance carrier -- with millions of customers -- sets up phony accounts and then bills unsuspecting consumers for charges they do not owe." [snip] rest at: http://www.cslnet.ctstateu.edu/attygenl/press/2000/coniss/att.htm _____________________________________________________ Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key dannyb@panix.com [to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded] - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 22 Dec 2000 14:48:27 -0500 From: "John R. Covert Spam Sink" Subject: Re: 3.1KHz audio calls Steve Croft is concerned about his Mitel iMAGINATION PBX which is only making 3.1kHz audio calls from its analogue lines. The problem is actually with the other site, the one with the ISLX PBX that rejects 3.1kHz audio calls. These calls should not be rejected. 3.1kHz audio is the minimum standard for regular telephony; "speech" bearer type is a special type indicating that the user is willing to accept degraded service. I've been through this problem, in a slightly different situation. One of my lines at home is an ISDN line, ordered with voice service only; I had no need for the 64kbps circuit switched data, but an ISDN line, connected to a Motorola Bitsurfer Pro ISDN Terminal Adapter provides two regular analogue POTS ports which will give you superior analogue service as compared to a long loop to the C.O., and at the tariffs in Massachusetts, a significant savings over two separate flat-rate residential POTS lines. (Reminder for overseas readers: "POTS" stands for "Plain Old Telephone Service") In any case, I decided one day to turn the ISDN line over to RCN, a CLEC (competetive local exchange carrier) who would actually just be reselling Bell Atlantic (now Verizon) ISDN service to me at a 5% discount. A bad decision, but I've stuck with it for various reasons I won't go into here. Shortly after doing this, friends in Germany stopped being able to call me. They would get a recording telling them (in German) "Requested facility not subscribed" which, not being telecom gurus, meant nothing to them. Note that these people were calling from a POTS phone, where they had no control over whether the call would be presented to the terminating station as a "speech" or a "3.1kHz audio" (aka voiceband data) bearer type. For quite a while, I had no clue as to what was wrong, and of course the CLEC and LEC and various LD carriers all pointed fingers at each other and were getting nowhere. I did some experimentation, by arranging to have calls placed to my line from various different locations. From the UK, using Mercury, there was no problem reaching my line. From Germany, most calls failed, but on repeated dialling, some would go through. From Japan, all calls failed. From Finland, calls would succeed or fail depending on which LD carrier was chosen. We even found a #5 ESS in the local area which could not place calls from POTS phones to my number. We finally determined that my line had been provisioned at the C.O. (as part of the conversion to the CLEC) with only speech bearer type; I was not subscribed to 3.1kHz audio. We had this fixed, adding 3.1kHz audio as a subscribed bearer type, but still leaving off the undesired (and $5/month extra) circuit switched data, and the problem was solved. The point of this whole story is that you need to go after ISLX. Mitel is doing nothing wrong. All incoming equipment needs to be able to accept calls with either bearer type. Rejecting 3.1kHz audio calls will prevent the reception of regular calls dialled from normal telephones at various places in the world. /john (The address above is really /dev/null - the astute reader can probably figure out my real email address) - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 22 Dec 2000 15:04:59 -0500 From: dannyb@panix.com (danny burstein) Subject: Re: Finding Public Domain Music-On-Hold In <5.0.0.25.0.20001221231859.00a7c030@mailbox.verizon.net> Gary Novosielski writes: >On 20 Dec 2000 11:57:32 (-0500) John Bartley wrote: >>Sorry, but no AM reception, and weak FM reception, in our Zone-Three >>quake-reinforced steel frame building core. The NOAA VHF was my first >>thought; bought a radio, decent reception outside bldng core, but zippo >>in the phone room. Ditto for the old Sony shortwave I brought in. Sigh. >Too bad there are no copper wires running from your phone room to the >outside world, or you might be able to use one for an ext. antenna. Too bad there's no copper wire between the phone's KSU/music on hold card and the outside, or he might be able to place the radio in a good reception zone and feed the audio back... - -- _____________________________________________________ Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key dannyb@panix.com [to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded] - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 22 Dec 2000 17:00:55 -0500 From: me Subject: Re: Finding Public Domain Music-On-Hold get a cheap cd player http://www.davenportmusic.com/musiconhold.html On 22 Dec 2000 14:35:47 -0500, Gary Novosielski wrote: >On 20 Dec 2000 11:57:32 (-0500) John Bartley wrote: > >>Sorry, but no AM reception, and weak FM reception, in >>our Zone-Three quake-reinforced steel frame building >>core. The NOAA VHF was my first thought; bought a >>radio, decent reception outside building core, but >>zippo in the phone room. Ditto for the old Sony >>shortwave I brought in. Sigh. > >Too bad there are no copper wires running from your phone room to the >outside world, or you might be able to use one for a long-wire external antenna. - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 22 Dec 2000 18:07:38 -0500 From: "Tad Cook" Subject: jackass story OK, I think I may have heard it here before, but here is a cute story related to telephones: http://sunshine.freehosting.net/jackass.htm - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 18:40:12 -0500 From: "Judith Oppenheimer" Subject: 12/22/00 ICBTollFreeNews.Com HEADS UP HEADLINES ____________________________________________________ ICBTollFreeNews.Com HEADS UP HEADLINES ____________________________________________________ from ICB Toll Free News - Daily News and Intelligence covering the Political, Legal and Marketing Arenas of 800 and Dot Com. ____________________________________________________ Been waiting for a sale? ICB is DEEPLY Discounted for the Holidays !! 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Working Group Chair (and NeuStar exec) contribution to last week's NTIA ENUM roundtable: engineering presentation to explain the technology? Or NeuStar corporate proposal to run the show? >From page one: "Who is NeuStar?", its hard to tell. CONTINUED HERE: http://www.icbtollfree.com/article.cfm?articleId=4925 F - WIPO REINVENTED "WIPO isn't WIPO anymore. No, it's the United Nations' World Intellectual Property Organisation, shortened to the UN, if needed. This is actually a very clever bit of rebranding." CONTINUED HERE: http://www.icbtollfree.com/article.cfm?articleId=4929 ____________________________________________________ ABOUT ICB ICB HeadsUp Headlines Daily Email is sent by request. Subscriptions to Daily Email are free to qualified applicants. Visit http://www.icbtollfree.com/reg.cfm?NextURL=Index.cfm to sign up. Please feel free to pass along a copy to a friend, within reason so long as the message is not modified or used unfavorably. To unsubscribe mailto:editor@icbtollfree.com, subject: unsubscribe. ___________________ ADVERTISING INFORMATION ___________________ For information on advertising in ICB HeadsUp Headlines emails, see http://www.icbtollfree.com/ArticleId4415.html ____________________________________________________ Only subscribers or registered users of ICB Toll Free News web site will be able to access all or some of the full text of URLs provided. ____________________________________________________ Copyright © 2000 ICB, Inc. All rights reserved. ____________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: 23 Dec 2000 02:15:04 -0500 From: Roy Smith Subject: POTS line terminations. I was reading through cisco's Voice Analog Interface MIB, and came upon a list of possible line termination impedences, including: > ohms600Real - 600 Ohms. > ohms600Complex - 600 Ohms + 2.16uF > ohms900Complex - 900 Ohms + 2.16uF. > ohmsComplex1 - complex 1; > 220 Ohms + 820 Ohms || 115nF. > This impedance is primarily used in > Germany. > ohmsComplex2 - complex 2; > 270 Ohms + 750 Ohms || 150nF. > This impedance is primarily used in > United Kingdom and Sweden. The last 2 entries seem relatively self-explanitory, but what about the first three? Where, and under what circumstances, might you expect to see analog phone lines terminated in those ways? I'm particularly intrigued by the idea of specifying a capacitance to 3 significant digits. I would think +/- 20% would be more typical for a mass produced part. - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ End of Telecom Digest V2000 #164 ******************************** Date: 24 Dec 2000 06:15:09 -0500 From: owner-telecom-digest@telecom-digest.org (Telecom Digest) To: telecom-digest@telecom-digest.org Subject: Telecom Digest V2000 #165 Telecom Digest Sunday, December 24 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 165 In this issue: Christmas TV programs in Pennsylvania Christmas programs in Pennsylvania Modular Jack Help Modular Surface Jack Help Wiring Re: Modular Jack Help Re: Help Wiring Re: desirable numbers (was Early NPA Assignments) Re: 211 code Christmas TV programs in Pennsylvania Re: 211 code Re: Help Wiring Egghead scrambles to gauge damage Re: desirable numbers (was Early NPA Assignments) Re: desirable numbers (was Early NPA Assignments) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 23 Dec 2000 10:16:10 -0500 From: Wes Leatherock Subject: Christmas TV programs in Pennsylvania This is a little different from most postings to the digest, but it's still about Telco so I think it's at least sort of on topic. A retired Southwestern Bell district plant manager called me yesterday looking for information for her current husband, a minister. He was trying to locate a two-part Christmas program that he recalled being presented on television by the telephone company in Pennsylvania (where he then lived) in the 1950s. The two parts told the Christmas story, including the nativity, and he recalled that the commercials were done by an operator (or a female actor appearing as an operator). I don't recall the programs. I joined Southwestern Bell in 1956 or 1957, and I don't remember them. It is possible they were Bell of Pa. programs, or Bell System programs in which Southwestern Bell didn't participate. If anyone reading the digest remembers these, or can provide a clue or some contact who might remember them, I'm sure they would be much appreciative. Wes Leatherock wleath@sandbox.dynip.com - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 23 Dec 2000 10:20:01 -0500 From: Wes Leatherock Subject: Christmas programs in Pennsylvania A detail about the Christmas television programs in Pennyslvania I omitted: They were performed by marionettes. Wes Leatherock wleath@sandbox.dynip.com - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 23 Dec 2000 12:13:45 -0500 From: nissansman@my-deja.com Subject: Modular Jack Help Hi, I may be posting in the wrong group but I'm desperate. My friends phone terminal is old and needs to be replaced to accept a modem connection. We bought a "Modular Surface Jack with connection block for accomodating Modular Plugs (RJ11C/14C)" manufactured by LOBO. Having some experience with LANs etc I thought it would be a simple job. (duh) However, the 4 wires in the new model are red/yel/gr/blk and the incoming tel wires are gr/orange/blu/brown (I live in Ireland in case there are color differences between countries, BTW). Also only two wires the orange and blue(I think it was blue) are connected inside the old wallmounted block with the other two wires tucked away. Which wires do I need to connect to which, do i need to pare them down, why do things always happen on a christmas weekend and why are Irish telecom companies so useless? Any help or links would be greatly appreciated and happy christmas to you all. (ps. sorry if this posted twice but my PC crashed so just making sure) Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 23 Dec 2000 12:13:45 -0500 From: nissansman@my-deja.com Subject: Modular Surface Jack Hi, I may be posting in the wrong group but I'm desperate. My friends phone terminal is old and needs to be replaced to accept a modem connection. We bought a "Modular Surface Jack with connection block for accomodating Modular Plugs (RJ11C/14C)" manufactured by LOBO. Having some experience with LANs etc I thought it would be a simple job. (duh) However, the 4 wires in the new model are red/yel/gr/blk and the incoming tel wires are gr/orange/blu/brown (I live in Ireland in case there are color differences between countries, BTW). Also only two wires the orange and blue(I think it was blue) are connected inside the old wallmounted block with the other two wires tucked away. Which wires do I need to connect to which, do i need to pare them down, why do things always happen on a christmas weekend and why are Irish telecom companies so useless? Any help or links would be greatly appreciated and happy christmas to you all. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 23 Dec 2000 12:13:46 -0500 From: nissansman@my-deja.com Subject: Help Wiring Hi, I may be posting in the wrong group but I'm desperate. My friends phone terminal is old and needs to be replaced to accept a modem connection. We bought a "Modular Surface Jack with connection block for accomodating Modular Plugs (RJ11C/14C)" manufactured by LOBO. Having some experience with LANs etc I thought it would be a simple job. (duh) However, the 4 wires in the new model are red/yel/gr/blk and the incoming tel wires are gr/orange/blu/brown (I live in Ireland in case there are color differences between countries, BTW). Also only two wires the orange and blue(I think it was blue) are connected inside the old wallmounted block with the other two wires tucked away. Which wires do I need to connect to which, do i need to pare them down, why do things always happen on a christmas weekend and why are Irish telecom companies so useless? Any help or links would be greatly appreciated and happy christmas to you all. (this is my third time trying to post here from deja.com, I hope this message isn't being repeated and annoying everyone :)) Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 23 Dec 2000 14:53:19 -0500 From: Joseph Singer Subject: Re: Modular Jack Help On 23 Dec 2000 12:13:45 -0500, nissansman@my-deja.com wrote: >Hi, I may be posting in the wrong group but I'm desperate. My friends phone >terminal is old and needs to be replaced to accept a modem connection. We >bought a "Modular Surface Jack with connection block for accomodating Modular >Plugs (RJ11C/14C)" manufactured by LOBO. Having some experience with LANs etc >I thought it would be a simple job. (duh) However, the 4 wires in the new >model are red/yel/gr/blk and the incoming tel wires are gr/orange/blu/brown >(I live in Ireland in case there are color differences between countries, >BTW). Also only two wires the orange and blue(I think it was blue) are >connected inside the old wallmounted block with the other two wires tucked >away. Which wires do I need to connect to which, do i need to pare them down, >why do things always happen on a christmas weekend and why are Irish telecom >companies so useless? Any help or links would be greatly appreciated and >happy christmas to you all. It appears that the orange and blue are your "tip" and "ring" leads and the others are for other purposes I'd suppose. Green/Red are used for tip and ring in north America and yellow/black are used either for a second line or sometimes is used for things such as a dial light in older installations though on multi-pair cable such as Cat. 3 or Cat. 5 use a different colour scheme - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Joseph Singer Seattle, Washington USA - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 23 Dec 2000 15:23:54 -0500 From: "News at Home" Subject: Re: Help Wiring I hope this helps.... The incoming wires are your tip and ring, and they would connect to the red and green wires in your new block (this is called RJ-11, one line). The other wires are for a second line and would be wired to the black and yellow to make your block a RJ-14 for use with a 2-line phone wired for RJ14. Usually, the tip and ring are not sensitive to polarity, but if they are, you will not be able to dial out. If this happens, swap the wires (red for green and vis versa) wrote in message news:922l2j$bjm$1@nnrp1.deja.com... 4 wires in the new model are red/yel/gr/blk and the incoming tel wires are gr/orange/blu/brown BTW). Also only two wires the orange and blue(I think it was blue) are connected inside the old wallmounted block with the other two wires tucked away. Which wires do I need to connect to which, do i need - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 23 Dec 2000 15:23:54 -0500 From: "News at Home" Subject: Re: desirable numbers (was Early NPA Assignments) There is one problem with Gary's logic.... The country code for the US is not "1", it is "840" (see ftp://ftp.ripe.net/iso3166-countrycodes/). 1 is used to set the call up in the US as a toll or LD call. Try Afghanistan with a code of "004". Can't be to many phones on Afghanistan can there? Andy Kauffman "Joseph Singer" wrote in message news:3.0.5.32.20001217040822.0086f2c0@oz.net... > 16 Dec 2000 13:00:11 -0500 Joel B Levin wrote: > > >In <5.0.0.25.0.20001215230144.00a08680@mailbox.verizon.net>, > > Gary Novosielski wrote: > >}Although the dial pulses did figure into the assignment of codes correlated > >}to traffic, area codes have always been listed in numerical order, and 201 > >}did, and still does top the list as the "lowest" number. > > > >Not in some old internal telco lists I've seen. > > > >}It could be argued that the "lowest" telephone number in the world is > >}located somewhere in Jersey City, NJ., if you accept the following > >}definition of "low": > >} > >}The lowest Country Code is +1: USA > >}The lowest US NPA is 201: NJ > >}The lowest NXX code in 201 is 200: Jersey City > >} > >}Presumably, if someone in Jersey City has the number +1.201.200.0001 that > >}could be considered to be the lowest number in the world, and a real vanity > >}coup! I wonder if he or she knows. > > > >Why not 201-200-0000? > > > >}"But," I hear you cry, "on a rotary dial, that would be 67 pulses!" True, > >}but this is a DTMF age. > > > >"Desirable" numbers for businesses are typically numbers ending in 00 or 000. > >Except that many years ago, while this seemed to be true in the East (and > >probably other places I didn't know about), in Mountain Bell territory > where I > >lived, the best numbers seemed to be the ones that ended in the most 1's. So > >while "ANdrews 8-8000" might have been really easy to remember or write a > >jingle about, a number like EAst 7-3111 was a lot easier to dial. > > I don't think it's an east versus west thing, but more likely the type of > switching equipment that was originally installed. Most everywhere in > major cities if the switching equipment was panel or crossbar major > businesses would have numbers that ended XX00 (hundred) or X000 (thousand). > In cities where step-by-step (aka Strowger) large businesses usually ended > with the number 1 because in a step office to have "hunting" step-by-step > offices go from 1 to 0 with 1 being the lowest number. In panel and > crossbar offices the lowest number is zero. > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - > Joseph Singer Seattle, Washington USA > [ICQ pgr] > +1 206 405 2052 [voice mail] +1 206 493 0706 [FAX] > -- > The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail > messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 23 Dec 2000 15:58:20 -0500 From: djb0x773771c5@scream.org (Dan Birchall) Subject: Re: 211 code David Lind wrote: > djb0x77376989@scream.org wrote: > > Speaking of nationally assigned NOT meaning nationally implemented, > > Verizon Hawaii routes 511 to Relay Service too. Feh. We could > > *really* use some traffic and transportation info, guys! > > Of course, the NANPA site indicates that 211 and 511 were just > > recently nationally assigned... > > a basic question... Dialed 511 with a Verizon cell phone here on the mainland > and got a dial tone. I was referring to Verizon as our LEC, formerly GTE Hawaiian Tel. > Can make 7 digit local calls only. I'm fairly sure your cell phone can call 911 - isn't that required by law? > Would obtaining a dial tone with cellular have any useful purpose, > like data calls? Got me. It would help run down the battery? - -Dan - -- Dan Birchall - Palolo Valley - Honolulu HI - http://dan.scream.org/ Corporate Holidays 2001 - http://208.184.171.20/articles/262573.htm My addresses expire... take out the hex stamp if your reply bounces - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 23 Dec 2000 16:10:27 -0500 From: Wes Leatherock Subject: Christmas TV programs in Pennsylvania Sorry if this is a double post. I got confirmation from the robot that both messages were posted, but the only one that came back on my system was the second one noting the show was made with marionettes. Wes Leatherock wleath@sandbox.dynip.com - ---------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 09:05:17 -0600 (CST) From: Wes Leatherock Subject: Christmas TV programs in Pennsylvania This is a little different from most postings to the digest, but it's still about Telco so I think it's at least sort of on topic. A retired Southwestern Bell district plant manager called me yesterday looking for information for her current husband, a minister. He was trying to locate a two-part Christmas program that he recalled being presented on television by the telephone company in Pennsylvania (where he then lived) in the 1950s. The two parts told the Christmas story, including the nativity, and he recalled that the commercials were done by an operator (or a female actor appearing as an operator). I don't recall the programs. I joined Southwestern Bell in 1956 or 1957, and I don't remember them. It is possible they were Bell of Pa. programs, or Bell System programs in which Southwestern Bell didn't participate. If anyone reading the digest remembers these, or can provide a clue or some contact who might remember them, I'm sure they would be much appreciative. Wes Leatherock wleath@sandbox.dynip.com - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 23 Dec 2000 19:56:03 -0500 From: Wes Leatherock Subject: Re: 211 code On 22 Dec 2000 14:03:12 -0500 jsw@ivgate.omahug.org wrote: > Uh, depends on how you look at it, I suppose. 211 was back in the Old > Days, right at the advent of customer dialed LD calls, but certainly > in the days of 'one system, one solution, one attitude', and 00 (which I > can never remember actually using) is in the days of competitive > carriers and the like. 211 (in offices other than step) goes back before World War II... how much longer I don't now. In step offices 110 was used instead, before the days of single channel operation (same operator handled both local assistance and toll calls...just necessary to dial "0" after that for either service). > (Dusting off rusty memory cells.) I'm trying to remember when zero-plus > calling was first used. Back in NYC in maybe 1967 or 1968 I remember what > they called 'Extended Direct Distance Dialing'. For operator-assisted > calls, you would dial 0-NPA-NNX-XXXX (yes, it was NNX then ;-) and the > operator would break in and ask if it was collect or person or whatever. > This was only on some of the 5xb offices, iirc. Also, iirc, panel subs > would dial 0 for long distance. Station calls were dialed NPA-NNX-XXXX > with NO leading 1. The argument over a leading "1" to indicate station toll raged for a couple of decades, with different Associated Companies having different views. (The argument still gets brough up on Telecom Digest/comp.dcom.telecom from time to time, or did as recently as a year or two ago. But "1+" seems to be well established now.) Direct Distance Dialing (DDD) went in at different times in different places over a period of couple of decades. And Expanded (or Extended) DDD (EDDD) was also added office by office over a couple of decades. It also was used for many step offices which reached the toll network via CAMA rather than LAMA. In those days you had to pass your credit card number orally, too, when the operator came on. > I do remember the timeout on the dialing of 0 really threw some people who > were used to dialing zero and immediately hearing click-clack-click-rrring > of the operator. "0" is still used for local assistance and for intraLATA assistance (where the intraLATA toll is provided by the RBOC). > I'm trying to remember when 00 dialing first showed up. I suppose it had > to be in the 80's right after the Great Breakup when the local operators > were split off from the toll operators. I'm very fuzzy on this one. That's when it was. "00" was and is to reach the operator for the interLATA IXC. Wes Leatherock wleath@sandbox.dynip.com - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 23 Dec 2000 20:06:40 -0500 From: Wes Leatherock Subject: Re: Help Wiring On 23 Dec 2000 15:23:54 -0500 News at Home wrote: > I hope this helps.... > > The incoming wires are your tip and ring, and they would connect to the red > and green wires > in your new block (this is called RJ-11, one line). The other wires are for > a second line and would be wired to the black > and yellow to make your block a RJ-14 for use with a 2-line phone wired for > RJ14. Black or yellow may also be used for ground with polarized ringing on party lines. And for some purposes you might use black and yellow for the ringer behind a cutoff key. > Usually, the tip and ring are not sensitive to polarity, but if they are, > you will not be able > to dial out. If this happens, swap the wires (red for green and vis versa) This is usually the case only with lines arranged for tone dialing and then only for older Touch-Tone sets. For most purposes you just need to know that red and green are tip and ring and go to your modem or telephone. Wes Leatherock wleath@sandbox.dynip.com - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 23 Dec 2000 20:09:17 -0500 From: Monty Solomon Subject: Egghead scrambles to gauge damage Egghead scrambles to gauge damage An intruder may have poached the online electronics and computer retailer's database of 3.7 million customers, including credit card information. The FBI and security experts are on the case. By Robert Lemos and Ben Charny, ZDNet News December 22, 2000 12:37 PM PT Egghead.com scrambled on Friday to gauge how much of its 3.7-million-customer database had been stolen by intruders during an online theft, which experts believed happened the day before. "We're in continuous crisis mode here," said a consultant from physical and electronic security firm Kroll Worldwide--the experts called in when Egghead discovered the intrusion on Thursday. The consultant asked not to be named. http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,2668562,00.html - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 23 Dec 2000 21:44:55 -0500 From: "Adam H. Kerman" Subject: Re: desirable numbers (was Early NPA Assignments) On 12/23/00, at 3:23pm -0500, News at Home wrote: Don't top post, please. >There is one problem with Gary's logic.... The country code for the US is >not "1", it is "840" (see ftp://ftp.ripe.net/iso3166-countrycodes/). No final "/" in the URL, as that's a file name. ftp://ftp.ripe.net/iso3166-countrycodes IS03166 is not a standard that specifies country codes used to route voice calls over the PSTN. >1 is used to set the call up in the US as a toll or LD call. Uh, "1" is a dialing prefix before the area code in the dialing plan. In some places, it's used as a toll indicator, but not for the majority of telephone customers. And from outside countries that are members of the NANP, "1" most certainly is used as the country code to dial into telephones in the NANP. But the "1" dialing prefix is not a significant digit for use with inbound international calls and must not be dialed. It is a coincidence that "1" is the same digit used for two different purposes. >Try Afghanistan with a code of "004". Can't be to many phones on Afghanistan >can there? Won't be able to reach Afghanistan in that manner. - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 24 Dec 2000 00:17:45 -0500 From: Steve Tihor Subject: Re: desirable numbers (was Early NPA Assignments) News at Home wrote: : There is one problem with Gary's logic.... The country code for the US is : not "1", it is "840" (see ftp://ftp.ripe.net/iso3166-countrycodes/). 1 is : used : to set the call up in the US as a toll or LD call. Try Afghanistan with a : code of "004". Can't be to many phones on Afghanistan can there? : Andy Kauffman I am nto sure what the numbers used there are but they are not the country codes you dial to reach various countries around the world. I assume its some sequential numbering scheme used inthe order that something was assigned. But its not what you dial int he US or elsewhere to reach those countries accept accidentally in any cases. : "Joseph Singer" wrote in message : news:3.0.5.32.20001217040822.0086f2c0@oz.net... :> 16 Dec 2000 13:00:11 -0500 Joel B Levin wrote: :> :> >In <5.0.0.25.0.20001215230144.00a08680@mailbox.verizon.net>, :> > Gary Novosielski wrote: :> >}Although the dial pulses did figure into the assignment of codes : correlated :> >}to traffic, area codes have always been listed in numerical order, and : 201 :> >}did, and still does top the list as the "lowest" number. :> > :> >Not in some old internal telco lists I've seen. :> > :> >}It could be argued that the "lowest" telephone number in the world is :> >}located somewhere in Jersey City, NJ., if you accept the following :> >}definition of "low": :> >} :> >}The lowest Country Code is +1: USA :> >}The lowest US NPA is 201: NJ :> >}The lowest NXX code in 201 is 200: Jersey City :> >} :> >}Presumably, if someone in Jersey City has the number +1.201.200.0001 : that :> >}could be considered to be the lowest number in the world, and a real : vanity :> >}coup! I wonder if he or she knows. :> > :> >Why not 201-200-0000? :> > :> >}"But," I hear you cry, "on a rotary dial, that would be 67 pulses!" : True, :> >}but this is a DTMF age. :> > :> >"Desirable" numbers for businesses are typically numbers ending in 00 or : 000. :> >Except that many years ago, while this seemed to be true in the East (and :> >probably other places I didn't know about), in Mountain Bell territory :> where I :> >lived, the best numbers seemed to be the ones that ended in the most 1's. : So :> >while "ANdrews 8-8000" might have been really easy to remember or write a :> >jingle about, a number like EAst 7-3111 was a lot easier to dial. :> :> I don't think it's an east versus west thing, but more likely the type of :> switching equipment that was originally installed. Most everywhere in :> major cities if the switching equipment was panel or crossbar major :> businesses would have numbers that ended XX00 (hundred) or X000 : (thousand). :> In cities where step-by-step (aka Strowger) large businesses usually : ended :> with the number 1 because in a step office to have "hunting" step-by-step :> offices go from 1 to 0 with 1 being the lowest number. In panel and :> crossbar offices the lowest number is zero. :> -------------------------------------------------------------------------- : - :> Joseph Singer Seattle, Washington USA :> [ICQ pgr] :> +1 206 405 2052 [voice mail] +1 206 493 0706 [FAX] :> -- :> The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail :> messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. : -- : The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail : messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. - -- Stephen Tihor/NYU/251 Mercer St/NY NY 10012/+1 212 998 3052/tihor@nyu.edu - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ End of Telecom Digest V2000 #165 ******************************** Date: 25 Dec 2000 06:15:10 -0500 From: owner-telecom-digest@telecom-digest.org (Telecom Digest) To: telecom-digest@telecom-digest.org Subject: Telecom Digest V2000 #166 Telecom Digest Monday, December 25 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 166 In this issue: Re: Telecom Digest V2000 #164 Call recording on a PC Re: desirable numbers (was Early NPA Assignments) No Cancer? Too Early to Call Don't Tawk and Drive in New York 1+ as a toll indicator (was: desirable numbers) Re: Don't Tawk and Drive in New York Re: 1+ as a toll indicator (was: desirable numbers) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 24 Dec 2000 09:35:31 -0500 From: Nathan Stratton Subject: Re: Telecom Digest V2000 #164 On 23 Dec 2000, Telecom Digest wrote: > Date: 22 Dec 2000 07:39:07 -0500 > From: John Adams > Subject: Re: Finding the right Bellcore CallerID document > > Stephido et. al. > > Depending on how deep you want to go will determine what you want. > If you're interested in procedural (UI) as well as TCAP messaging between > the switches, buy the GR31 document. If you also want to know how Calling > Name (AIN or LIDB lookup) TCAP works, get the 1188 document. > If you're designing CallerID boxes or the equipment in the switch that encodes > the data, get a copy of GR80 for specific info on encoding and timing of the > data signals. You may also want to check out GR-2939 - SPCS/SERVER GENERIC REQUIREMENTS FOR THE NEXT GENERATION OF THE ANALOG DISPLAY SERVICES INTERFACE (ADSI++) ><> Nathan Stratton CTO, Exario Networks, Inc. nathan@robotics.net nathan@exario.net http://www.robotics.net http://www.exario.net - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 24 Dec 2000 09:44:36 -0500 From: world!ecla@uunet.uu.net (alain arnaud) Subject: Call recording on a PC I am looking for a hardware pc card and software to record phone calls automatically. I know of a box called a softcall recorder that hooks up to sound card and the joystick card, but I what I would like would be an internal PC card. I will leave the PC on all the time, with the software running in the background and calls would be recorded automatically on the hard disk. Alternatively is there any software that will do the same with one of the voice modems. Please reply to arnaud@ecla.com. Alain Arnaud - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 24 Dec 2000 14:10:08 -0500 From: Wes Leatherock Subject: Re: desirable numbers (was Early NPA Assignments) On 23 Dec 2000 21:44:55 -0500 Adam H. Kerman wrote: > On 12/23/00, at 3:23pm -0500, News at Home wrote: > >1 is used to set the call up in the US as a toll or LD call. > > Uh, "1" is a dialing prefix before the area code in the dialing plan. In some > places, it's used as a toll indicator, but not for the majority of telephone > customers. Could you elaborate on "not for the majority of telephone customers"? Since telephone numbers in the U.S.A. and Canada are often presented in print and other directories aimed at North American readers as "1+NXX+XXX+XXXX" it would seem that this must be pretty universal...that is, true for a large majority of telephone custombers. Indeed, most 1010XXX IXCs require you to dial the "1" before the telephone number. (Yes, "0+" is used for calls requiring assistance instead of "1+". Some carriers make provision for this some don't.) Generally the "1+" can be (must be) omitted only on local calls, i.e., on calls which are charged either flat rate or message rate or interzone rate according to the local plan, but not as toll calls. This usually occurs in cities with more than one area code (Dallas, Houston and Denver) come to mind immediately) or where the calling party subscribes to a plan providing flat rate service for an extended area, perhaps the entire home LATA. In these cases the call is dialed simply as 10 digits (no leading "1") and you'll likely get an intercept announcement if you precede the number with "1". > And from outside countries that are members of the NANP, "1" most > certainly is used as the country code to dial into telephones in the NANP. But > the "1" dialing prefix is not a significant digit for use with inbound > international calls and must not be dialed. It is a coincidence that "1" is the > same digit used for two different purposes. In many countries the area code is shown with a "0" preceding. This similarly must not be dialed on international calls. Wes Leatherock wleath@sandbox.dynip.com - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 24 Dec 2000 14:15:33 -0500 From: Monty Solomon Subject: No Cancer? Too Early to Call No Cancer? Too Early to Call (Technology 2:00 a.m. PST) http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,40777,00.html?tw=wn20001221 The New England Journal of Medicine and the Journal of the American Medical Association released the most extensive studies to date showing that cell phones don't cause brain cancer. But the studies only told part of the story. By Elisa Batista. - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 24 Dec 2000 14:17:13 -0500 From: Monty Solomon Subject: Don't Tawk and Drive in New York Don't Tawk and Drive in New York (Business Wednesday) http://www.wired.com/news/business/0,1367,40774,00.html?tw=wn20001221 The studies conflict on whether drivers with cellular phones cause a greater number of car accidents, but New York City officials aren't taking any chances. They're about to pass a law banning the use of handheld phones while driving. By Elisa Batista. - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 24 Dec 2000 14:36:55 -0500 From: "Adam H. Kerman" Subject: 1+ as a toll indicator (was: desirable numbers) On 12/24/00, at 2:10pm -0500, Wes Leatherock wrote: >On 23 Dec 2000 21:44:55 -0500 Adam H. Kerman wrote: >>On 12/23/00, at 3:23pm -0500, News at Home wrote: >>>1 is used to set the call up in the US as a toll or LD call. >>Uh, "1" is a dialing prefix before the area code in the dialing plan. In some >>places, it's used as a toll indicator, but not for the majority of telephone >>customers. > Could you elaborate on "not for the majority of telephone customers"? >Since telephone numbers in the U.S.A. and Canada are often presented in print >and other directories aimed at North American readers as "1+NXX+XXX+XXXX" it >would seem that this must be pretty universal...that is, true for a large >majority of telephone custombers. Of commonly-implemented dialing plans within the NANP, use of 1+ when the NPA code must be dialed is mandatory. It indicates "area code follows" (if the next digit is N=2-9). Only in some parts of the country is the 1+ prefix used as a toll indicator. From anecdotal discussion in the telecom digest, it appears that more people use dialing plans in which 1+ is not a toll indicator than in places where it is. On the other hand, we haven't had discussion of dialing plans in the NANP outside the continental US, so who knows if toll indication is common elsewhere. > Indeed, most 1010XXX IXCs require you to dial the "1" before >the telephone number. No. Unless you place your call behind a PBX, the dialing plan is implemented by the local switch, not the IXC. In states that do not prohibit IXCs (that would normally be interLATA carriers) from completing intrastate intraLATA calls, the CAC would be used without 1+NPA if the dialing plan required 7 digits be dialed to complete the call to a neighboring exchange. > Generally the "1+" can be (must be) omitted only on local calls, i.e., >on calls which are charged either flat rate or message rate or interzone rate >according to the local plan, but not as toll calls. Come to Chicago, where the toll indicator is the dial tone. According to others on the list, dialing plans in California don't use toll indication. >>And from outside countries that are members of the NANP, "1" most certainly >>is used as the country code to dial into telephones in the NANP. But the "1" >>dialing prefix is not a significant digit for use with inbound international >>calls and must not be dialed. It is a coincidence that "1" is the same digit >>used for two different purposes. > In many countries the area code is shown with a "0" preceding. >This similarly must not be dialed on international calls. It's wrong to include dialing prefixes when writing telephone numbers. It's wrong in the NANP, in which has hundreds if not thousands of dialing plans, and it's wrong in Europe in which some countries have universal dialing plans. As there are numbering plans around the world in which the first digit may be a "0" or "1", how are callers who haven't memorized such things to know? You all cut it out now. - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 24 Dec 2000 14:42:08 -0500 From: "Adam H. Kerman" Subject: Re: Don't Tawk and Drive in New York >Don't Tawk and Drive in New York (Business Wednesday) >http://www.wired.com/news/business/0,1367,40774,00.html?tw=wn20001221 >The studies conflict on whether drivers with cellular phones cause a >greater number of car accidents, but New York City officials aren't >taking any chances. They're about to pass a law banning the use of >handheld phones while driving. By Elisa Batista. This is a lie; the studies do NOT conflict on whether drivers using cell phones get distracted and cause accidents. We've discussed this before: Banning hand- held phones is a sop to the manufacturers trying to sell hands-free phones and to the cell phone service providers attempting to prevent phone use from being entirely banned while driving. A few studies suggest that use of hands-free phones while driving is even more distracting than the use of handheld phones. It's common to gesture while talking on the phone; handheld phones prevent that. - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 24 Dec 2000 14:59:56 -0500 From: johnl@iecc.com (John R Levine) Subject: Re: 1+ as a toll indicator (was: desirable numbers) > In states that do not prohibit IXCs (that would normally be > interLATA carriers) from completing intrastate intraLATA calls, the > CAC would be used without 1+NPA if the dialing plan required 7 > digits be dialed to complete the call to a neighboring exchange. I can report from experience that's true. I live in a place where LATA lines don't match area code lines, and I can dial intra-LATA local, intra-LATA toll, and inter-LATA toll calls all with seven digits. (In some nearby towns, they can dial inter-LATA local calls with seven digits as well.) I can dial 1010XXX-7D to force calls to a particular IXC if I want to. Dunno if I can force local calls to an IXC, probably not. It appears that most of the US by land area use toll alerting, 1+ before all toll calls, for some definition of toll call, but the places without toll alerting include New York, Chicago, Los Angeles, Philadelpia, and their metro areas so by population more people don't have toll alerting than do. I can also report that this is a major religious issue--people who live in areas with toll alerting are sure that in its absence the world would end (or something close to it) and they'd all be living in cardboard boxes, bankrupted by unintended toll calls. People who live in areas without toll alerting don't have those problems, don't have to memorize what numbers need 1+ in order to make phone calls, and generally don't understand what the big deal about toll alerting is. - -- John R. Levine, IECC, POB 727, Trumansburg NY 14886 +1 607 387 6869 johnl@iecc.com, Village Trustee and Sewer Commissioner, http://iecc.com/johnl, Member, Provisional board, Coalition Against Unsolicited Commercial E-mail - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ End of Telecom Digest V2000 #166 ******************************** Date: 30 Dec 2000 06:15:13 -0500 From: owner-telecom-digest@telecom-digest.org (Telecom Digest) To: telecom-digest@telecom-digest.org Subject: Telecom Digest V2000 #167 Telecom Digest Saturday, December 30 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 167 In this issue: telecom digest test second test Re: Finding Public Domain Music-On-Hold Re: POTS line terminations. Re: Help Wiring Re: POTS line terminations. Re: 1+ as a toll indicator (was: desirable numbers) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 30 Dec 2000 01:39:40 -0500 From: John R Levine Subject: telecom digest test trying to see where the mail is going Regards, John Levine, postmaster@telecom-digest.org Telecom Digest moderator pro tem - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 30 Dec 2000 01:49:39 -0500 From: John R Levine Subject: second test Track down posting bugs Regards, John Levine, postmaster@telecom-digest.org Telecom Digest moderator pro tem - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 30 Dec 2000 01:55:26 -0500 From: Rodeocomm Subject: Re: Finding Public Domain Music-On-Hold I do not think it is unrealistic to either be placed on hold or to do that to callers when the circumstances warrant. This includes such bizarre situations as: - - leaving the desk to find a file - - consulting privately with someone in the office to formulate a response for the caller - - answering a call from my wife Proper application of music-on-hold has nothing to do with either professionalism or adequate staffing. - -- we use revolving CD's of public domain classical Steve Rowland RODEO - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 30 Dec 2000 01:55:56 -0500 From: Henry E Schaffer Subject: Re: POTS line terminations. In article , Roy Smith wrote: >I was reading through cisco's Voice Analog Interface MIB, and came upon >a list of possible line termination impedences, including: >> ... >> ohms600Complex - 600 Ohms + 2.16uF > ... >I'm particularly intrigued by the idea of specifying a capacitance to 3 >significant digits. I would think +/- 20% would be more typical for a >mass produced part. Resistance and capacitance values are nominal - not accurate to the number of significant digits shown. For each % tolerance, there is a series of numbers (roughly twice the tolerance apart) so that every part made can be labelled with one of those values (+/- tolerance). There usually was a color dot or stripe signifying the tolerance level. For capacitance 10% would (IIRC) be considered a tight tolerance, 20% still fairly tight - and for electrolytics the tolerance was much wider. - -- - --henry schaffer hes@ncsu.edu - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 30 Dec 2000 01:56:02 -0500 From: nissansman@my-deja.com Subject: Re: Help Wiring Thanks guys, we followed your red & green advice (suitably festive!) and my friend had the internet up and running for his little sis for Christmas day! Thanks again. In article , Wes Leatherock wrote: > > On 23 Dec 2000 15:23:54 -0500 News at Home wrote: > > I hope this helps.... > > > > The incoming wires are your tip and ring, and they would connect to the red > > and green wires > > in your new block (this is called RJ-11, one line). The other wires are for > > a second line and would be wired to the black > > and yellow to make your block a RJ-14 for use with a 2-line phone wired for > > RJ14. > > Black or yellow may also be used for ground with polarized > ringing on party lines. And for some purposes you might use black > and yellow for the ringer behind a cutoff key. > > > Usually, the tip and ring are not sensitive to polarity, but if they are, > > you will not be able > > to dial out. If this happens, swap the wires (red for green and vis versa) > > This is usually the case only with lines arranged for tone > dialing and then only for older Touch-Tone sets. > > For most purposes you just need to know that red and green > are tip and ring and go to your modem or telephone. > > Wes Leatherock > wleath@sandbox.dynip.com > -- > The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail > messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 30 Dec 2000 01:56:40 -0500 From: Greg Andrews Subject: Re: POTS line terminations. Roy Smith writes: >I was reading through cisco's Voice Analog Interface MIB, and came upon >a list of possible line termination impedences, including: > >> ohms600Real - 600 Ohms. >> ohms600Complex - 600 Ohms + 2.16uF >> ohms900Complex - 900 Ohms + 2.16uF. >> ohmsComplex1 - complex 1; >> 220 Ohms + 820 Ohms || 115nF. >> This impedance is primarily used in >> Germany. >> ohmsComplex2 - complex 2; >> 270 Ohms + 750 Ohms || 150nF. >> This impedance is primarily used in >> United Kingdom and Sweden. > >The last 2 entries seem relatively self-explanitory, but what about the >first three? Where, and under what circumstances, might you expect to >see analog phone lines terminated in those ways? > When simulating the load of an off-hook POTS handset, it would appear. The DC resistance is the first, and the AC impedance would be the second and third. It appears that the Cisco can make itself look like an ordinary handset to a switch. > >I'm particularly intrigued by the idea of specifying a capacitance to 3 >significant digits. I would think +/- 20% would be more typical for a >mass produced part. > 2.16 *is* within 20% of 2.00. IIRC, 2.16 is the more common value in mass-produced capacitors. It's probably the nearest multiple of some constant value in the forumlas for capacitance. -Greg - -- +++++ Greg Andrews +++ gerg@panix.com +++++ I have a map of the United States that's actual size -- Steven Wright - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 30 Dec 2000 02:00:29 -0500 From: Garrett Wollman Subject: Re: 1+ as a toll indicator (was: desirable numbers) In article , Adam H. Kerman wrote: >It's wrong to include dialing prefixes when writing telephone >numbers. There is an International Standard for this: +ccc ddddddddddd (where additional spaces may be added in the `ddd...' block as local convention dictates). The `+' indicates ``whatever your local international dialing prefix is''. I've seen many people add their local dialing prefix in parentheses (e.g., `+44 (0)1232 456 789'). >it's wrong in Europe in which some countries have universal dialing >plans. I believe the EU has standardized (at least certain aspects of) dialing plans throughout its member nations. >As there are numbering plans around the world in which the first >digit may be a "0" or "1", how are callers who haven't memorized such >things to know? Never mind those countries where it is neither of those. In pre-EU Finland, the inter-area prefix was `9', and was almost always written with the area code in parentheses; i.e., `(90) 1911' for the main switchboard operator at the University of Helsinki. With EU harmonisation, both the dialing prefix and Helsinki's area code had to change (since `00' is the international access code); that number is now `(09) 1911', but internationally it is of course `+358 9 1911'. (Can anyone identify a country which has at least one subscriber number shorter than eight digits in E.164 form?) - -GAWollman - -- Garrett A. Wollman | O Siem / We are all family / O Siem / We're all the same wollman@lcs.mit.edu | O Siem / The fires of freedom Opinions not those of| Dance in the burning flame MIT, LCS, CRS, or NSA| - Susan Aglukark and Chad Irschick - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ End of Telecom Digest V2000 #167 ******************************** Date: 31 Dec 2000 06:15:11 -0500 From: owner-telecom-digest@telecom-digest.org (Telecom Digest) To: telecom-digest@telecom-digest.org Subject: Telecom Digest V2000 #168 Telecom Digest Sunday, December 31 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 168 In this issue: Re: 211 code Re: ANI incorrect on cell calls Re: ANI incorrect on cell calls More Caller ID Info Re: More Caller ID Info digital anac? Re: Call recording on a PC Re: More Caller ID Info Re: More Caller ID Info Re: 1+ as a toll indicator (was: desirable numbers) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 30 Dec 2000 09:30:40 -0500 From: Darren Stuart Embry Subject: Re: 211 code [comp.dcom.telecom] On 21 Dec 2000 22:15:23 -0500, Dan Birchall wrote: > Speaking of nationally assigned NOT meaning nationally implemented, > Verizon Hawaii routes 511 to Relay Service too. Feh. We could > *really* use some traffic and transportation info, guys! The Kentucky Public Service Commission has ordered statewide assignment to the Kentucky Transportation Cabinet for 511. See: http://www.psc.state.ky.us/agencies/psc/orders/102000/0000343_30.pdf As of now (2000-12-27) when I dial 511 from my work phone in Louisville (BellSouth territory), I get to hear the phone number I'm calling *from* plus some weird code (ABSLSV075, for example, I think it must be some CO code). 211, 311, 611, 711, and 811 do nothing. In Cincinnati, you can currently dial 211 to reach the ARTIMIS travel information system, the first such service in the United States accessible via dialing n11. - -- Darren Stuart Embry. He can be condescending in a nice way. http://www.webonastick.com/ - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 30 Dec 2000 10:18:43 -0500 From: jeffrey spidle Subject: Re: ANI incorrect on cell calls Paul, if the call you are making is routed through an IXC then it is possible that the IXC that is delivering the call to the destination is not passing the correct calling party number to the destination. I know that this happens alot with the real cheap IXC's or VoIP based carriers. "Paul Wallich" wrote in message news:20001207215409.13772.qmail@xuxa.iecc.com... > In article , Paul Robichaux > wrote: > > >In article , > >sjsobol@NorthShoreTechnologies.net (Steve Sobol) wrote: > > > >>Interesting. Anyone know why ANI apparently doesn't work for cellular > >>calls? > > > >When I try the ANI number with my Powertel (GSM) phone, I get > >901-259-xxxx, even though I'm not in Memphis. Apparently P'tel is > >funneling calls from my cell area (256-337-xxxx) air-to-air from here to > >Memphis, then putting them on the PSTN. I note that when I call FedEx's > >automatic drop-box locator, it always wants to give me locations in > >Memphis instead of where I am, and this is why. > > > >However, I get correct CLID on local calls, and that's most important to > >me (after all, calling 911 and having them think I'm in Memphis would be > >pretty inconvenient). > > This is yet another sign of the fact that (for better or worse) ANI and > CLID, although superficially equivalent, use completely different > implementations and underlying data. > > paul > -- > The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail > messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 30 Dec 2000 13:46:01 -0500 From: Linc Madison Subject: Re: ANI incorrect on cell calls In article <20001230065620.24483.qmail@xuxa.iecc.com>, jeffrey spidle wrote: > Paul, if the call you are making is routed through an IXC then it is > possible that the IXC that is delivering the call to the destination > is not passing the correct calling party number to the destination. > > I know that this happens alot with the real cheap IXC's or VoIP based > carriers. > > > >> Interesting. Anyone know why ANI apparently doesn't work for > > >> cellular calls? > > > > > > When I try the ANI number with my Powertel (GSM) phone, I get > > > 901-259-xxxx, even though I'm not in Memphis. Apparently P'tel is > > > funneling calls from my cell area (256-337-xxxx) air-to-air from > > > here to Memphis, then putting them on the PSTN. I note that when > > > I call FedEx's automatic drop-box locator, it always wants to > > > give me locations in Memphis instead of where I am, and this is > > > why. It has nothing to do with the IXC, but rather with the cellular system. The ANI is that of the cellular company's trunk, which apparently is located somewhere in western Tennessee. The ANI does work, exactly as it is supposed to work, for these calls. It just doesn't return the same result as Caller ID. Anyway, this question was answered in greater detail a few days ago. - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 30 Dec 2000 13:48:56 -0500 From: herbsu@netscape.net (Herb Sutherland) Subject: More Caller ID Info A couple of days ago I noticed something you might find interesting. I was at my mom's house and called my number from hers. She has complete caller ID blocking, so as expected, I received private name/private number on my display. Also, as expected, if I dial *82 preceeding my number both her name and number are displayed. However, the surprising thing is that when I dial my toll free number which rings to my number, even without dialing a preceeding *82 it displays her phone number and private name! I have noticed a few other calls coming in where the number is displayed but I get private name for the name. I'll have to ask them if they dialed me on the toll free number! __________________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Webmail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/ - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 30 Dec 2000 14:01:36 -0500 From: eck@panix.com (Mark Eckenwiler) Subject: Re: More Caller ID Info In <6B4ED5CF.7EBAE044.0006300D@netscape.net>, herbsu@netscape.net writes: >A couple of days ago I noticed something you might find interesting. I was >at my mom's house and called my number from hers. She has complete caller ID >blocking, so as expected, I received private name/private number on my >display. Also, as expected, if I dial *82 preceeding my number both her name >and number are displayed. However, the surprising thing is that when I dial >my toll free number which rings to my number, even without dialing a >preceeding *82 it displays her phone number and private name! Um, isn't that just ANI, as with all other callee-pays calls? Doesn't surprise me. - -- Nell met, sewed elk amine: Dino's trough eater. eck@panix.com - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 30 Dec 2000 14:14:25 -0500 From: John Graves Subject: digital anac? Hi I'm just an outside plant tech. I used to have a piece of test equipment called a Techtronics 9925. This meter had the ability to anac a number and the number was printed on the lcd in digital format. These meter's were recalled by I guess our district level, because they had a reputation of being unreliable in their capacitance to distance measurements. I made the mistake of turning mine back in. My questions are:. Where can I get the protocols and source to recreate the "digital ani" ? Are there any open source examples. If not, how do I find the applicable documentation to accomplish this. I have a decent amount of programming experience, At least I know a heck of a lot more than they teach in you average VisBasic course. lol laddie@bellsouth.net - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 30 Dec 2000 14:14:24 -0500 From: John Graves Subject: Re: Call recording on a PC Cheyanne Bitware does it on a normal with a modem.. I have it installed on my computer. http://search.cai.com/www.cai.com/query.html No extra equipment required laddie@bellsouth.net alain arnaud wrote: > I am looking for a hardware pc card and software to record phone calls > automatically. I know of a box called a softcall recorder that hooks up > to sound card and the joystick card, but I what I would like would be an > internal PC card. > > I will leave the PC on all the time, with the software running in the > background and calls would be recorded automatically on the hard disk. > > Alternatively is there any software that will do the same with one of the > voice modems. > > Please reply to arnaud@ecla.com. > > Alain Arnaud > -- > The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail > messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 30 Dec 2000 16:03:33 -0500 From: johnl@iecc.com (John R Levine) Subject: Re: More Caller ID Info >>and number are displayed. However, the surprising thing is that when I dial >>my toll free number which rings to my number, even without dialing a >>preceeding *82 it displays her phone number and private name! > >Um, isn't that just ANI, as with all other callee-pays calls? Doesn't >surprise me. Sort of. Some IXCs fill in blocked CLID from ANI. Dunno whether they're supposed to do that or not. - -- John R. Levine, IECC, POB 727, Trumansburg NY 14886 +1 607 387 6869 johnl@iecc.com, Village Trustee and Sewer Commissioner, http://iecc.com/johnl, Member, Provisional board, Coalition Against Unsolicited Commercial E-mail - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 30 Dec 2000 18:30:21 -0500 From: Chris Williams Subject: Re: More Caller ID Info Herb Sutherland wrote: > > A couple of days ago I noticed something you might find interesting. I was > at my mom's house and called my number from hers. She has complete caller ID > blocking, so as expected, I received private name/private number on my > display. Also, as expected, if I dial *82 preceeding my number both her name > and number are displayed. However, the surprising thing is that when I dial > my toll free number which rings to my number, even without dialing a > preceeding *82 it displays her phone number and private name! I have noticed > a few other calls coming in where the number is displayed but I get private > name for the name. I'll have to ask them if they dialed me on the toll free > number! > You get the info anytime someone dials your 800 number. That's one of the benefits of paying for the call. If you are dialing an 800 number, even if you use *67, you don't have the option of hiding your number. As you know, the calling number is going to show up on the bill for your 800 number anyway. - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 30 Dec 2000 23:34:57 -0500 From: david@uow.edu.au (David Wilson) Subject: Re: 1+ as a toll indicator (was: desirable numbers) "Adam H. Kerman" writes: >It's wrong to include dialing prefixes when writing telephone numbers. It's >wrong in the NANP, in which has hundreds if not thousands of dialing plans, and >it's wrong in Europe in which some countries have universal dialing plans. As >there are numbering plans around the world in which the first digit may be a >"0" or "1", how are callers who haven't memorized such things to know? Here in Australia we use a Zero as our area code prefix and it is considered to be part of the area code - except when dialing from overseas when it is omitted. Thus we have to write our phone numbers in two different ways depending on the intended audience: Phone: (02) 4221 xxxx Intl: +61 2 4221 xxxx You North Americans have it easier by having the same country code as your area code prefix. In theory anyone should be able to understand a phone number like: +1 210 234 xxxx I still prefer our system (if your area code is the same as that of the destination you can omit it (hence the () around the area code) but it still works if you include it). - -- David Wilson School of IT & CS, Uni of Wollongong, Australia - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ End of Telecom Digest V2000 #168 ******************************** Date: 1 Jan 2001 06:15:12 -0500 From: owner-telecom-digest@telecom-digest.org (Telecom Digest) To: telecom-digest@telecom-digest.org Subject: Telecom Digest V2000 #169 Telecom Digest Monday, January 1 2001 Volume 2000 : Number 169 In this issue: kill this meme: "Media3 put Peacefire in the line of fire..." Local vs. Long Distance from NPA-NXX? Cheap US->UK residential phone? Re: kill this meme: "Media3 put Peacefire in the line of fire..." Re: kill this meme: "Media3 put Peacefire in the line of fire..." Re: 1+ as a toll indicator Re: kill this meme: "Media3 put Peacefire in the line of fire..." Re: n11 codes Re: Finding Public Domain Music-On-Hold Re: n11 codes Re: Finding Public Domain Music-On-Hold ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 31 Dec 2000 07:36:11 -0500 From: Bennett Haselton Subject: kill this meme: "Media3 put Peacefire in the line of fire..." [I am sending this to editor@telecom-digest.org to get it through to comp.dcom.telecom. Please copy bennett@peacefire.org on any replies that are meant for me.] There is a meme going around saying that Peacefire's hosting provider, Media3, intentionally put us in an IP address block that had nothing else in it but sites selling bulk email software. Some commentators have likened this to Iraq keeping women and children inside military bases to stop the U.N. from bombing them. Jeez. Some of the people forwarding this meme undoubtedly mean well, and I respect their commitment to fighting spam, but the facts making the rounds are incorrect. Here is what really happened: The class C we're in that AboveNet was blocking their customers from accessing until recently (yes, AboveNet really was blocking their customers from accessing our Web site, not just incoming email), is 209.211.253.*. There are about 150 active sites in that range -- you can get to them all by typing 209.211.253.1, 209.211.253.2, 209.211.253.3, etc. Only 10 of those sites were listed in the evidence file for that netblock. It is completely false that Media3 put us on a machine that has "nothing else on it but spamware sites". And Media3 does *not* rotate IP addresses within a given class C, so AboveNet blocking Peacefire had nothing to do with technical necessity -- it's simply to strengthen the Media3 "boycott" (which AboveNet was participating in, by using the MAPS RBL), by hitting innocent bystanders as well. Now there's nothing wrong with boycotts in general, but I think this one doesn't have much merit, for two reasons. First of all, Media3 does not tolerate, and never has tolerated, customers sending spam. AboveNet, by using the RBL, was targeting Media3 because Media3 host sites which sell bulk email software. I think that holding software authors responsible for the actions of people who *use* the software is a very bad principle. Breaking into someone's network is a much greater theft of service than spamming them, but I've never heard of anyone calling for a boycott of ISP's that host sites where you can download network breakin software. Anyway, fine -- AboveNet and MAPS are entitled to their opinion about who is responsible for the spam problem. But my more important objection is about the way they are conducting their "boycott", by forcing their customers into it without telling them. According to my own survey of users connecting to our site from AboveNet IP addresses, not a single one of them knew that AboveNet was censoring their Internet connection. Most echoed the sentiments of one user who said, "I pay for a pipe and I don't expect this kind of monkey business." I also called AboveNet on 12/10 and talked to five different people in sales and tech support, who all said the same thing: AboveNet does not block their customers from accessing *any* Web sites. (AboveNet's policy says that they use the RBL to filter incoming email, not Web access.) And anyway, AboveNet stopped blocking their customers' access to Web sites on the same day that the story became public. That seems like a tacit admission that their policy of blocking customers' Web access was inexcusable. -Bennett bennett@peacefire.org http://www.peacefire.org (425) 649 9024 - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 31 Dec 2000 08:36:38 -0500 From: "Richard M. Sander" Subject: Local vs. Long Distance from NPA-NXX? Short of calling the LEC, does anyone know of any public- domain resource(s) that can determine, given two NPA-NNX's, whether a call between the two would be local, intraLATA or long distance? Thanks in advance! - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 31 Dec 2000 08:54:42 -0500 From: pishedme@bigfoot.com Subject: Cheap US->UK residential phone? Don't know which newsgroup to address this question to, there doesn't seem to be a 'us.telecom' newsgroup. The cheapest UK->US providers are about 3p or 4p a minute, eg Swiftcall or Onetel. What cheap reliable US->UK providers would you recommend? The regular ones like Sprint and MCI are around 10c/min but I notice smaller companies doing 6c/min for residential. - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 31 Dec 2000 10:01:49 -0500 From: sjsobol@NorthShoreTechnologies.net (Steve Sobol) Subject: Re: kill this meme: "Media3 put Peacefire in the line of fire..." >From 'Bennett Haselton': >There is a meme going around saying that Peacefire's hosting provider, >Media3, intentionally put us in an IP address block that had nothing else >in it but sites selling bulk email software. >Now there's nothing wrong with boycotts in general, but I think this one >doesn't have much merit, for two reasons. First of all, Media3 does not >tolerate, and never has tolerated, customers sending spam. AboveNet, by >using the RBL, was targeting Media3 because Media3 host sites which sell >bulk email software. >Anyway, fine -- AboveNet and MAPS are entitled to their opinion about who >is responsible for the spam problem. But my more important objection is >about the way they are conducting their "boycott", by forcing their >customers into it without telling them. MAPS doesn't allow BGP use of the RBL (which Abovenet uses) if the ISP using the BGP feed doesn't let its customers know about the use of the BGP feed. And AboveNet says at http://www.above.net/anti-spam.html that they use the RBL. I agree that they could be a little more clear about the ramifications of using it, but they do say they use it. >According to my own survey of >users connecting to our site from AboveNet IP addresses, not a single one >of them knew that AboveNet was censoring their Internet connection. Do they use AboveNet directly, or an ISP downstream from AboveNet? It's not AboveNet's responsibility to contact their customers' customers. >echoed the sentiments of one user who said, "I pay for a pipe and I don't >expect this kind of monkey business." I also called AboveNet on 12/10 and >talked to five different people in sales and tech support, who all said the >same thing: AboveNet does not block their customers from accessing *any* >Web sites. (AboveNet's policy says that they use the RBL to filter >incoming email, not Web access.) Point me to the place where they say specifically that... - -- Steve Sobol, BOFH, President 888.480.4NET 866.DSL.EXPRESS 216.619.2NET North Shore Technologies Corporation http://NorthShoreTechnologies.net JustTheNet/JustTheNet EXPRESS DSL (ISP Services) http://JustThe.net mailto:sjsobol@NorthShoreTechnologies.net Proud resident of Cleveland, OH - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 31 Dec 2000 10:32:02 -0500 From: Bennett Haselton Subject: Re: kill this meme: "Media3 put Peacefire in the line of fire..." >From 'Bennett Haselton': >>Anyway, fine -- AboveNet and MAPS are entitled to their opinion about who >>is responsible for the spam problem. But my more important objection is >>about the way they are conducting their "boycott", by forcing their >>customers into it without telling them. > >MAPS doesn't allow BGP use of the RBL (which Abovenet uses) if the ISP >using the BGP feed doesn't let its customers know about the use of the BGP >feed. And AboveNet says at http://www.above.net/anti-spam.html that they >use the RBL. I agree that they could be a little more clear about the >ramifications of using it, but they do say they use it. As I wrote in my last post, "AboveNet's policy says that they use the RBL to filter incoming email, not Web access." AboveNet's page says, "The MAPS RBL is used by AboveNet to help reduce the amount of spam received by customers." I don't think anyone who reads that statement would take it to mean that AboveNet was blocking customers' Web access (especially since blocking Web access does not "reduce the amount of spam received by customers"). Unless they specifically say that they're blocking customers' Web access, then they haven't disclosed how they're using the RBL. As it is, people accused me of making up these accusations at first, because they couldn't believe that a backbone provider would be blocking their customers' Web surfing. Besides, AboveNet stopped blocking customers' Web access the instant the story became public. This seems like an admission that what they were doing was inexcusable. >>echoed the sentiments of one user who said, "I pay for a pipe and I don't >>expect this kind of monkey business." I also called AboveNet on 12/10 and >>talked to five different people in sales and tech support, who all said the >>same thing: AboveNet does not block their customers from accessing *any* >>Web sites. (AboveNet's policy says that they use the RBL to filter >>incoming email, not Web access.) > >Point me to the place where they say specifically that... This is what their salespeople and technical support staff told me, when I called them pretending to be a potential customer who didn't know what AboveNet's policies were. (By that time, I knew -- I was just trying to find out what they were telling customers and the public.) -Bennett bennett@peacefire.org http://www.peacefire.org (425) 649 9024 - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 31 Dec 2000 13:25:13 -0500 From: "Adam H. Kerman" Subject: Re: 1+ as a toll indicator On 12/30/00, at 11:34pm -0500, David Wilson wrote: >"Adam H. Kerman" writes: >>It's wrong to include dialing prefixes when writing telephone numbers. It's >>wrong in the NANP, in which has hundreds if not thousands of dialing plans, >>and it's wrong in Europe in which some countries have universal dialing >>plans. As there are numbering plans around the world in which the first >>digit may be a "0" or "1", how are callers who haven't memorized such >>things to know? >Here in Australia we use a Zero as our area code prefix and it is considered >to be part of the area code - except when dialing from overseas when it >is omitted. Thus we have to write our phone numbers in two different ways >depending on the intended audience: >Phone: (02) 4221 xxxx >Intl: +61 2 4221 xxxx Which is why I say your way of writing phone numbers for domestic use is confusing. Does Australia have a nationwide dialing plan? Then it should be assumed that domestic callers know to use the "0" dialing prefix before the area code. Your numbers should be written 2 4221 xxxx. Then that way, neither domestic nor internation callers are confused. Those of us outside Australia are clever enough to look up the country code if we don't know it, but it is too much to expect us to know if the leading 0 is a significant digit or a domestic dialing prefix. >You North Americans have it easier by having the same country code as your >area code prefix. Ah, but there is no universal NANP dialing plan. Use of the "1" dialing prefix before the area code is not mandatory in all dialing plans, or before all area codes in some dialing plans. 1 NPA NXX-XXXX SHOULD be a universal method of dialing in any dialing plan, but it is not. And people dialing behind PBXs, of course, have to follow internal dialing plans. No, I do not agree that North Americans should write phone number including the dialing prefix, ever. In your example, (02), both the dialing prefix and area code are written within the parenthesis. But someone in the NANP would see the (02) as the area code. A common method of writing phone numbers is (210) 234-xxxx. Note the hyphen. If we were writing it with the dialing prefix, we might write 1 (210) 234-xxxx. >In theory anyone should be able to understand a phone number like: > +1 210 234 xxxx For those people who recognize that as the international standard, yes. I think it is unfortunate that North Americans could see the +1 as a dialing prefix rather than a country code. >I still prefer our system (if your area code is the same as that of the >destination you can omit it (hence the () around the area code) but it still >works if you include it). Many NANP dialing plans continue to allow that. Personally, I'd prefer mandatory 10 digit dialing and elimination of the dialing prefix for station- to-station calls. - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 31 Dec 2000 13:43:18 -0500 From: Steve Linford Subject: Re: kill this meme: "Media3 put Peacefire in the line of fire..." In article <3.0.6.32.20001231043933.00a0c9b0@206.81.192.1>, Bennett Haselton wrote: > [I am sending this to editor@telecom-digest.org to get it through > to comp.dcom.telecom. Please copy bennett@peacefire.org on any > replies that are meant for me.] > > There is a meme going around saying that Peacefire's hosting > provider, Media3, intentionally put us in an IP address block that > had nothing else in it but sites selling bulk email software. Some > commentators have likened this to Iraq keeping women and children > inside military bases to stop the U.N. from bombing them. Jeez. > > Some of the people forwarding this meme undoubtedly mean well, and > I respect their commitment to fighting spam, but the facts making > the rounds are incorrect. Here is what really happened: No Bennett, cut the crap. The memo you're refering to (and which you don't want people to believe as you'd like them instead to believe your version of the story, as given to you by Joe Hayes the owner of Media3), was written by me and I never said your block "had nothing else in it but sites selling bulk email software". I said your block has 20 of the worst spam sites on the Internet in it. The class C peacefire.org is sitting in (and which Media3 put you in when much of it had _already_ been on the RBL for months) is the home of a huge amount of the Internet's spam. I said Media3 has been the top Spam Support Service in the Spamhaus.org "Internet's worst Spamhausen" list for 8 months (http://www.spamhaus.org/statistics-hosts.lasso). Even though you know this you feed peacefire.org readers more crap by saying the 20 spam sites in your block "only sell spamming software" and don't spam, so those bad MAPS people shouldn't block the poor little spammers who are only earning a crust by selling harmless spamming software... Who told you this? Joe Hayes the owner of Media3? The same Media3 that has been the Internet's worst spam host for 8 months? Get real, the spamhausen in your block are all hard-line stealth spamming outfits and include 'Stealth Bulk ISPs' and 'Bullet-proof Bulk hosts' advertising "Spam all you want without being shut down" (http://www.bulk-isp.com/), and spamware sites selling 'stealth' spamware including 'DesktopServer' and 'StealthMassMailer' both specifically designed and marketed for spamming and which claim to cloak the spammers dial-ups and insert fake mail headers into spams to thwart complaints. Specifically, two of the Internet's most notorious hard-line spam operations are hosted by Media3 in the same class C as peacefire.org They include: [1] SAMCO in block 209.211.253.0, operated by spammers Bob Galena and Mike Constantin, sells stealth spamware and operates a 'stealth bulk ISP' service, i.e: a service which spammers connect to from their dial-ups to bulk out through and which strips their dial-up IPs off and relays the spam out anonymously through open servers around the net. The SAMCO spam outfit has been thrown off just about every major US provider for the last 2 years. [2] GHI/BulkISP (Global Hosting Institute), operated by a long time spammer known as Sam Al (Saied Alzalzalah) and hosted by Media3 also in block 209.211.253.0 under numerous aliases including bulkisp.com, bulkhost.net, bulk-isp.net, bulkispcorp.net, bulk-isp.com, bulkisp.nu, bulkisp.net, bulkispcorp.com, all of which sell 'bullet-proof spamming services' with the promise "Bulletproof web space is used so you can spam without the worries of being shut down". GHI had been thrown off 5 major ISPs before moving to Media3. You still believe Joe Hayes when he tells you he just hosts poor little spammers selling harmless spamming software? > Now there's nothing wrong with boycotts in general, but I think > this one doesn't have much merit, for two reasons. First of all, > Media3 does not tolerate, and never has tolerated, customers > sending spam. We're talking _major_ spamhausen, of course they send spam. These are spamhausen we've been tracking for over 2 years. Just to give you an idea, this is the termination history of just one of the spamhausen sitting right now in your class C: extractor-pro.com terminated on Dec 31 1999 (directcon.net) bulkemailpeople.com terminated on Dec 31 1999 (directcon.net) e-mailmagnet.com terminated on Dec 31 1999 (directcon.net) stealthmassmailer.com terminated on Dec 31 1999 (directcon.net) marketingmasters.com terminated on Jan 8 2000 (ticnet.com) desktopserver98.com terminated on Jan 8 2000 (ticnet.com) massmailer.com terminated on Jan 22 2000 (ticnet.com) desktopserver98.com terminated on Sep 12 2000 (intelenet.net) marketingmasters.com terminated on Sep 12 2000 (intelenet.net) e-mailblaster.com terminated on Sep 12 2000 (intelenet.net) e-mailmagnet.com terminated on Mar 14 2000 (sesqui.net) bulkemailpeople.com terminated on Feb 19 2000 (granitecanyon.com) extractor-pro.com terminated on Mar 14 2000 (sesqui.net) e-mailblaster.com terminated on Feb 19 2000 (sesqui.net) bulkemailpeople.com terminated on Mar 14 2000 (sesqui.net) e-mailblaster.com terminated on Apr 6 2000 (zyan.com) desktopserver98.com terminated on Apr 6 2000 (zyan.com) stealthmassmailer.com terminated on Mar 14 2000 (sesqui.net) marketingmasters.com terminated on Apr 6 2000 (zyan.com) tornadoblaster.com terminated on Mar 14 2000 (sesqui.net) ontarget98.com terminated on Mar 14 2000 (sesqui.net) listsorcerer.com terminated on Mar 14 2000 (sesqui.net) stealthmassmailer.com terminated on Apr 6 2000 (qwest.net) e-mailmagnet.com terminated on Apr 6 2000 (qwest.net) extractor-pro.com terminated on Apr 6 2000 (qwest.net) bulkemailpeople.com terminated on Apr 6 2000 (qwest.net) tornadoblaster.com terminated on Apr 6 2000 (qwest.net) ontarget98.com terminated on Apr 6 2000 (qwest.net) listsorcerer.com terminated on Apr 6 2000 (qwest.net) stealthmassmailer.com terminated on Apr 14 2000 (relaypoint.net) e-mailmagnet.com terminated on Apr 14 2000 (relaypoint.net) extractor-pro.com terminated on Apr 14 2000 (relaypoint.net) bulkemailpeople.com terminated on Apr 14 2000 (relaypoint.net) tornadoblaster.com terminated on Apr 14 2000 (relaypoint.net) ontarget98.com terminated on Apr 14 2000 (relaypoint.net) listsorcerer.com terminated on Apr 14 2000 (relaypoint.net) marketingmasters.com terminated on Jul 31 2000 (zyan.com) e-mailmagnet.com terminated on Jul 31 2000 (zyan.com) extractor-pro.com terminated on Jul 31 2000 (zyan.com) ontarget98.com terminated on Jul 31 2000 (zyan.com) stealthmassmailer.com terminated on Jul 31 2000 (zyan.com) tornadoblaster.com terminated on Jul 31 2000 (zyan.com) e-mailmagnet.com terminated on Sep 12 2000 (intelenet.net) tornadoblaster.com terminated on Sep 12 2000 (intelenet.net) bulkemailpeople.com LIVE in NETBLK-QWEST-209-211-248 (media3.net) desktopserver98.com LIVE in NETBLK-QWEST-209-211-248 (media3.net) e-mailblaster.com LIVE in NETBLK-QWEST-209-211-248 (media3.net) extractor-pro98.com LIVE in NETBLK-QWEST-209-211-248 (media3.net) massmailer.com LIVE in NETBLK-QWEST-209-211-248 (media3.net) listsorcerer.com LIVE in NETBLK-UU-63-74-120 (media3.net) You can review the spam services currently hosted by Media3 in the same block as www.peacefire.org at the following URLs, note that www.peacefire.org is at 209.211.253.169, slap-bang in the middle of this lot of spamhausen: IP Spam Service Site -------------- ----------------- 209.211.253.68 http://www.extractor-pro98.com/ 209.211.253.69 http://www.list-sorcerer.com 209.211.253.70 http://www.massmailer.com 209.211.253.71 http://www.bulkemailpeople.com 209.211.253.72 http://www.desktopserver98.com/ 209.211.253.73 http://www.e-mailblaster.com 209.211.253.74 http://www.marketingmasters.com/bulkserv.htm 209.211.253.79 http://www.4microsoft2000.com/index1.html 209.211.253.84 http://www.bulkers.net 209.211.253.88 http://www.bulkbarn.com/ 209.211.253.89 http://www.web-promotions.com/ 209.211.253.126 http://www.bulkisp.com/ 209.211.253.139 http://www.firstlinesoft.com/ www.peacefire.org = 209.211.253.169 209.211.253.248 http://www.bulkhost.net 209.211.253.248 http://www.bulk-isp.net 209.211.253.248 http://www.bulkispcorp.net 209.211.253.248 http://www.bulk-isp.com 209.211.253.248 http://www.bulkisp.nu 209.211.253.248 http://www.bulkisp.net 209.211.253.248 http://www.bulkispcorp.com What you need to do Bennett, instead of whining about being 'censored' because you're sitting in the middle of a spam nest, is tell Media3 to move your site out of that spamhole, you should _demand_ they move you out. And while you're at it, have you considered telling Media3 what you think of the spam nest you're sitting in? Have you considered _complaining_ to Media3 about putting you in with the Internet's worst gang of spammers? - -- Steve Linford The Spamhaus Project http://www.spamhaus.org - -- Steve Linford - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 31 Dec 2000 14:19:50 -0500 From: Neal McLain Subject: Re: n11 codes Continuing with the thread about anomalous n11 codes: In Wisconsin, the Richland-Grant Telephone Cooperative uses 511 for its Business Office number in Blue River. Richland-Grant also operates the cable television system in Blue River. This is, to my knowledge, the only place in the country where you can reach your local Cable TV system's office by dialing an n11 number. Neal McLain nmclain@compuserve.com - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 31 Dec 2000 16:53:10 -0500 From: Roy Subject: Re: Finding Public Domain Music-On-Hold I would like to point out that there is almost no such things as "public domain classical CDs". While the original composition may not be copyrighted, the recording of the performance of the music is. There is enough "On Hold" music out there for sale as well as musicians willing to have their work published that finding music isn't hard. Rodeocomm wrote: > I do not think it is unrealistic to either be placed on hold or to do that to > callers when the circumstances warrant. This includes such bizarre situations > as: > > - leaving the desk to find a file > - consulting privately with someone in the > office to formulate a response for the > caller > - answering a call from my wife > > Proper application of music-on-hold has nothing to do with either > professionalism or adequate staffing. > > -- we use revolving CD's of public domain classical > > Steve Rowland > RODEO > -- > The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail > messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 31 Dec 2000 17:58:27 -0500 From: "Adam H. Kerman" Subject: Re: n11 codes On 12/31/00, at 2:19pm -0500, Neal McLain wrote: >In Wisconsin, the Richland-Grant Telephone Cooperative >uses 511 for its Business Office number in Blue River. >Richland-Grant also operates the cable television system >in Blue River. >This is, to my knowledge, the only place in the country >where you can reach your local Cable TV system's office >by dialing an n11 number. Did you say "reach"? I would gladly dial 11 digits if I knew I could reach the call center on a regular basis without being in the call queue indefinitely. Wow; someone who can reach his cable tv system; what a concept! - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 31 Dec 2000 18:55:11 -0500 From: hollaar@faith.cs.utah.edu (Lee Hollaar) Subject: Re: Finding Public Domain Music-On-Hold In article <3A4FAAB9.8B639C01@garlic.com> Roy writes: > > >I would like to point out that there is almost no such things as "public domain >classical CDs". While the original composition may not be copyrighted, the >recording of the performance of the music is. But the public performance right in copyright does not apply to sound recordings. It only applies to "literary, musical, dramatic, and choreographic works, pantominmes, and motion pictures and other audiovisual works." See 17 USC 106(5). - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ End of Telecom Digest V2000 #169 ******************************** Date: 1 Jan 2001 20:52:55 -0500 From: owner-telecom-digest@telecom-digest.org (Telecom Digest) To: telecom-digest@telecom-digest.org Subject: Telecom Digest V2000 #170 Telecom Digest Monday, January 1 2001 Volume 2000 : Number 170 In this issue: re: kill this meme: "Media3 put Peacefire in the line of fire..." re: kill this meme: "Media3 put Peacefire in the line of fire..." Re: BLOCK: Media3, peacefire.org Re: BLOCK: Media3, peacefire.org related copyright issue, was: Re: Finding Public Domain MOH MAPS alters back-dated press release; withdraws Media3 accusations Re: More Caller ID Info Re: Local vs. Long Distance from NPA-NXX? Re: Cheap US->UK residential phone? Re: More Caller ID Info Re: Local vs. Long Distance from NPA-NXX? Re: kill this meme: "Media3 put Peacefire in the line of fire..." Re: kill this meme: "Media3 put Peacefire in the line of fire..." US Constitution and misreadings, was: Re: BLOCK: Media3, peacefire.org Re: BLOCK: Media3, peacefire.org Re: Local vs. Long Distance from NPA-NXX? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 1 Jan 2001 12:17:08 -0500 From: Dave Anderson Subject: re: kill this meme: "Media3 put Peacefire in the line of fire..." On 31 Dec 2000 07:36:11 -0500, Bennett Haselton wrote: >There is a meme going around saying that Peacefire's hosting provider, >Media3, intentionally put us in an IP address block that had nothing else >in it but sites selling bulk email software. Some commentators have >likened this to Iraq keeping women and children inside military bases to >stop the U.N. from bombing them. Jeez. >Some of the people forwarding this meme undoubtedly mean well, and I >respect their commitment to fighting spam, but the facts making the rounds >are incorrect. Here is what really happened: I've been aware of Peacefire for a while and, without having carefully researched the issues, felt that it was doing an important job; we certainly need people willing to research what censorware is actually doing and publish their results. However, the utility of this activity is critically dependent on the quality of the research and the perceived trustworthyness of the people involved. In the case at hand (based on my own knowledge as someone who hasn't been actively involved in spam-fighting but has been paying attention to it for the past several years) your research has been incredibly shoddy. This forces me to question whether your other research is of any better quality. For me, and probably for a lot of other people, you've done major damange to Peacefire's credibility. Dave - -- Dave Anderson - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 1 Jan 2001 12:18:17 -0500 From: Bennett Haselton Subject: re: kill this meme: "Media3 put Peacefire in the line of fire..." Do you have anything specific? At 12:00 PM 1/1/01 EST, Dave Anderson wrote: >On 31 Dec 2000 07:36:11 -0500, > Bennett Haselton wrote: > >>There is a meme going around saying that Peacefire's hosting provider, >>Media3, intentionally put us in an IP address block that had nothing else >>in it but sites selling bulk email software. Some commentators have >>likened this to Iraq keeping women and children inside military bases to >>stop the U.N. from bombing them. Jeez. > >>Some of the people forwarding this meme undoubtedly mean well, and I >>respect their commitment to fighting spam, but the facts making the rounds >>are incorrect. Here is what really happened: > >I've been aware of Peacefire for a while and, without having carefully >researched the issues, felt that it was doing an important job; we >certainly need people willing to research what censorware is actually doing >and publish their results. However, the utility of this activity is >critically dependent on the quality of the research and the perceived >trustworthyness of the people involved. > >In the case at hand (based on my own knowledge as someone who hasn't been >actively involved in spam-fighting but has been paying attention to it for >the past several years) your research has been incredibly shoddy. This >forces me to question whether your other research is of any better quality. >For me, and probably for a lot of other people, you've done major damange >to Peacefire's credibility. > > Dave > >-- >Dave Anderson > > > > bennett@peacefire.org http://www.peacefire.org (425) 649 9024 - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 1 Jan 2001 14:05:12 -0500 From: Bennett Haselton Subject: Re: BLOCK: Media3, peacefire.org At 06:53 PM 12/31/00 +0000, Steve Linford wrote: [massive delete] >You can review the spam services currently hosted by Media3 in the >same block as www.peacefire.org at the following URLs, note that >www.peacefire.org is at 209.211.253.169, slap-bang in the middle of >this lot of spamhausen: [massive delete] The "evidence file" for Media3 had sites listed for selling mass email software. When one Peacefire supporter asked MAPS why Media3 was listed, they said it was for sites that sold mass email software. (The only time that MAPS accused Media3 of anything else, they had to retract that accusation later.) It's hard to argue that the "evidence" of spam discussed on UseNet, would have been sufficient *by itself* to get Media3 on the RBL. I think this is pretty much agreed on. If individuals want to boycott Media3 for that reason, fine. What I think is dishonest about the RBL "boycott" is that most individuals whose email or Web access is blocked, apparently don't even realize it. Since Peacefire.org started surveying users who connect to our Web site from an AboveNet-controlled IP address, not a single one of them apparently knew that AboveNet was blocking their Internet access. AboveNet says that they "use the RBL to protect customers from spam" -- they don't say that they block customers from accessing those Web sites, which obviously has no effect on the amount of spam they get. And even when users are aware that their incoming email is filtered by the RBL, most of them seem to believe that the purpose of doing this is to reduce the amount of spam that they get while letting non-spam emails through. They aren't aware that sites are on the RBL even when MAPS knows those sites haven't actually sent spam, but are simply hosted by an ISP which is the target of an economic boycott. Since large numbers of people have been co-opted into these "boycotts" without realizing it, whose fault is that? I think partly MAPS, for claiming in multiple places on their Web site that the RBL is a list of "spammers", "people who send spam", "sites that do not follow responsible emailing practices", etc., and generally giving the impression that the purpose of using the RBL is to reduce the amount of spam you get, without mentioning that other sites are on the RBL purely for boycott purposes. (Even though the criteria for the RBL are given in one place on MAPS's site, the rest of the site still has less-than-accurate statements about what is on the RBL.) And partly companies like AboveNet that are not clear about how they use it (blocking Web access without informing customers is really pretty low). And if a downstream ISP knows that AboveNet blocks Web sites, but then re-sells Internet access to the public without telling them this, then that downstream ISP is partly responsible as well. There are lots of links in the chain from MAPS to an end user, but if an end user thinks they're buying uncensored Internet access and they're blocked from Web sites on the RBL, then someone, somewhere in the chain, lied to the person on the next link down from them. God knows I am in favor of fighting spam. For three months last summer I reported every piece of spam I got, to the ISP hosting the Web site, the ISP hosting the name server, and (if applicable) the ISP hosting the sender account. (I lost interest when my attempts to get a spammer's site shut down failed, for the 50th time in a row.) And I would be all in favor of an honestly run boycott against sites that support spam. It is the sad truth that I don't think an honest boycott would work. Most users are much too apathetic to care. They would never agree voluntarily to participate in any boycott that would cause them to miss out on legitimate emails and lose business contacts, without having any effect on the amount of spam they received. But that's still no excuse for running a boycott dishonestly. And even though there are a lot of the links in the chain from MAPS down to an end user (the backbone, the downstream ISP, and all the salespeople in between), the simple fact is that if an end user buys "Internet access", and their email or Web access is blocked without their knowledge, then somebody in the chain lied to someone at the next link down from them. You can't have everyone tell the truth and still get the RBL boycott to work on the scale that it's implemented now. There is a nuanced debate about whether sites which sell software like List Sorcerer (not to mention sites like Peacefire which are not doing anything except being *hosted* on the same ISP) are "responsible" for the spam problem, but I don't even really think that matters. If individuals want to boycott Peacefire voluntarily because we're hosted on Media3, that's up to them. But my own survey of AboveNet users indicated that none of them knew their Internet access was being blocked without their permission. The First Amendment does not protect "speech" that consists of false statements made by a company about a product that they're selling, whether that product is (1) a list of sites, or (2) Internet access that is secretly filtered according to that list. It protects the list itself, not necessarily all uses of it. -Bennett bennett@peacefire.org http://www.peacefire.org (425) 649 9024 - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 1 Jan 2001 15:01:34 -0500 From: sjsobol@NorthShoreTechnologies.net (Steve Sobol) Subject: Re: BLOCK: Media3, peacefire.org [ xposted to news.admin.net-abuse.email. NANAE folks: Mr. Haselton and I have engaged in discussion about the whole Media3/Peacefire issue via e-mail. This particular discussion is xposted from comp.dcom.telecom and I think it raises some interesting issues. ] >From 'Bennett Haselton': >claiming in multiple places on their Web site that the RBL is a list of >"spammers", "people who send spam", "sites that do not follow responsible >emailing practices", etc., Included in the 'etc.' is Spam Support Services, which includes selling of spamware. MAPS is *not* ambiguous about this. http://mail-abuse.org/rbl/candidacy.html#ByAssociation >what is on the RBL.) And partly companies like AboveNet that are not clear >about how they use it (blocking Web access without informing customers is >really pretty low). And if a downstream ISP knows that AboveNet blocks Web >sites, but then re-sells Internet access to the public without telling them >this, then that downstream ISP is partly responsible as well. I recall seeing somewhere on MAPS's site that they require users of the RBL to indicate to customers and their downstreams that they *are* using the RBL. But I can't find any indication of that on their web site, so I'm CC'ing this post to a couple friends who work there. I could be wrong, and maybe it's just because I'm still hung over from New Year's Eve -- but I could swear it's there. :) >It is the sad truth that I don't think an honest boycott would work. Most >users are much too apathetic to care. They would never agree voluntarily >to participate in any boycott that would cause them to miss out on >legitimate emails and lose business contacts, without having any effect on >the amount of spam they received. ...which is why MAPS requires documentation of RBL candidacy and will not act on a whim. There are some people who think they move too slowly, in fact - - I say moving too slowly is much better than the alternative, which will result in "false positives". >But that's still no excuse for running a boycott dishonestly. The question issue here is whether that is actually happening. >There is a nuanced debate about whether sites which sell software like List >Sorcerer (not to mention sites like Peacefire which are not doing anything >except being *hosted* on the same ISP) are "responsible" for the spam >problem Bennett, it's been pointed out to you that there are several such sites, where the company putting up the site exists solely to send spam. Samco is the one I can think of, and there's one other, both of which were mentioned yesterday on Spam-L. Extractor Pro is another one, and Extractor Pro has never been used for any legitimate purpose, AFAIK. >but I don't even really think that matters. Of course it matters. It's not a tangential topic. MAPS says the reason for the RBL listing of the Class C in which your site sits is because there are several other sites that support spam services. If that's not true, MAPS shouldn't list the Class C. But I, for one, believe it to be true. >If individuals want >to boycott Peacefire voluntarily because we're hosted on Media3, that's up >to them. But my own survey of AboveNet users indicated that none of them >knew their Internet access was being blocked without their permission. You said exactly the same thing to me in one of our discussions in private e-mail. I pointed out that that may or may not be AboveNet's fault. I then asked whether said users were direct customers of AboveNet or not. It's very likely many (most?) of them are users of ISPs downstream, in which case there is no obligation for AboveNet to tell those particular people that they're using the RBL. They need to tell the ISPs connecting directly to them, and the ISPs need to tell the end-users. While I appreciate your efforts to discuss this topic with me in a rational, calm manner, and I wish to do the same for you, I do think that you avoided directly answering this question when I initially posed it to you. Again, as I mentioned before, this does not imply that I think you're right or wrong, but the phrase "AboveNet users" is ambiguous and (I think) intentionally vague. >The First Amendment does not protect "speech" that consists of false >statements made by a company about a product that they're selling, whether >that product is (1) a list of sites, or (2) Internet access that is >secretly filtered according to that list. It protects the list itself, not >necessarily all uses of it. I agree; however, what we are dealing with at this point is not necessarily a censorship issue, but rather one of contract law. - -- Steve Sobol, BOFH, President 888.480.4NET 866.DSL.EXPRESS 216.619.2NET North Shore Technologies Corporation http://NorthShoreTechnologies.net JustTheNet/JustTheNet EXPRESS DSL (ISP Services) http://JustThe.net mailto:sjsobol@NorthShoreTechnologies.net Proud resident of Cleveland, OH - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 1 Jan 2001 15:10:31 -0500 From: dannyb@panix.com (danny burstein) Subject: related copyright issue, was: Re: Finding Public Domain MOH In <92oh05$e2q$1@coward.ks.cc.utah.edu> hollaar@faith.cs.utah.edu (Lee Hollaar) writes: >In article <3A4FAAB9.8B639C01@garlic.com> Roy writes: >> >>I would like to point out that there is almost no such things as >>"public domain classical CDs". While the original composition may >> not be copyrighted, the recording of the performance of the music is. >But the public performance right in copyright does not apply to sound >recordings. It only applies to "literary, musical, dramatic, and >choreographic works, pantominmes, and motion pictures and other audiovisual >works." See 17 USC 106(5). Which, iirc, was more or less how the copyright to the movie "it's a wonderful life" was grabbed back. Although the film itself had reverted to "public domain" (which led to years of it showing up, repeatedly, on pretty much every tv station), it turned out that the _music_ had not. - -- _____________________________________________________ Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key dannyb@panix.com [to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded] - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 1 Jan 2001 15:28:13 -0500 From: Bennett Haselton Subject: MAPS alters back-dated press release; withdraws Media3 accusations Below is the original version of a press release that was sent out by MAPS on 12/13/2000. (You can email rbl@mail-abuse.org to verify its authenticity.) In the fourth paragraph, MAPS accused Media3 of "refusing to require their web-hosting customers to stop advertising their websites by using unsolicited commercial email". This is also the version of the press release that was originally posted to http://mail-abuse.org/pressreleases/2000-12-13.html (as verified by someone who saved a copy from that date) and went out over the wire to MAPS's press list. The current version at http://mail-abuse.org/pressreleases/2000-12-13.html has those accusations removed. (Media3 does not tolerate their customers sending spam, and kicks off at least one customer per month because of it. The real reasons why Media3 is in the RBL are at http://evfiles.mail-abuse.org/rbl/ev/209.211.253-24.txt.) If MAPS decided that these accusations were so unsupportable that they pulled them off their Web site, then they should have also sent out a retraction to everyone who received the original press release. Sending out a press release with errors, and then altering the back-dated version on your Web site without posting a proper retraction, is a serious threat to any organization's credibility. -Bennett ******** http://mail-abuse.org/pressreleases/2000-12-13.html MAIL ABUSE PREVENTION SYSTEM (MAPS) 950 Charter St. Redwood City, CA 94063 http://www.mail-abuse.org Contact: Anne P. Mitchell, Esq., Director, Legal and Public Affairs, 650-444-0346, or email anne@mail-abuse.org MEDIA3 SUES MAPS OVER RBL LISTINGS; PRIMARY TRO REQUEST IS DENIED For Immediate Release Redwood City, CA, December 12, 2000 -- Mail Abuse Prevention System LLC ("MAPS"), the Redwood City, California based anti-spam organization, was sued today in Federal Court in Boston, Massachusetts, by web-hosting company Media3. MAPS has listed over 1500 of Media3's I.P. addresses in its RealTime Blackhole List ("RBL") database. "Media3's I.P. addresses have been listed in the RBL since at least last month, many for far longer", explained Anne P. Mitchell, Esq., Director of Legal and Public Affairs for MAPS. "Media3 asked the Court to issue a TRO requiring that these I. P. addresses be removed from the RBL, and the Court refused their request, although it did order that we not add any new I.P. addresses belonging to Media3 for the time being." The RBL is a database, which is updated in real time, containing the Internet addresses of Internet sites which have been proven to either allow their users to send unsolicited commercial email directly, or to use their resources to otherwise profit from unsolicited commercial email (sometimes known as "spam"). Subscriber sites may, at their discretion, choose to block traffic from these sites in order to reduce the burden that this unwanted email places on their networks. The dispute with Media3 arose when Media3 refused to require their web-hosting customers to stop advertising their websites by using unsolicited commercial email as an advertising medium. The unsolicited email, sent through various unrelated ISPs, advertised websites which were hosted by Media3 on their web servers. "This clearly violates the standards which we advocate, and to which we ourselves adhere," explained Mitchell. "The proprietors of these websites send massive amounts of unsolicted mail from an account with an ISP, then when that account is shut down for violating that ISP's terms of service, they just move on to another ISP. In these cases the only way to get them to stop sending the unwanted email is for the company hosting the advertised site to get involved. If they don't, there is no incentive for the unsolicited email to stop, and then we are forced to protect our own mail servers from the onslaught of that unwanted email." MAPS is based in Redwood City, California and provides spam prevention resources to systems administrators, as well as services to end users. For more information, please contact Anne P. Mitchell, Esq., Director of Legal and Public Affairs, at anne@mail-abuse.org, or (650) 444-0346. - -- - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 1 Jan 2001 16:30:15 -0500 From: murray@pa.dec.com (Hal Murray) Subject: Re: More Caller ID Info > You get the info anytime someone dials your 800 number. That's one of > the benefits of paying for the call. If you are dialing an 800 number, > even if you use *67, you don't have the option of hiding your number. As > you know, the calling number is going to show up on the bill for your > 800 number anyway. What does an 800 number cost for (very) low volume personal use? Telemarketers often hide behind PBX systems that provide useless CallerID info. Do those systems provide useful ANI data? Are there regulations against telemarketers calling 800 numbers? Are they effective? Would getting an 800 number (instead of a normal residential phone) be an useful tactic against telemarketers? - -- These are my opinions, not necessarily my employers. I hate spam. - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 1 Jan 2001 16:50:02 -0500 From: johnl@iecc.com (John R. Levine) Subject: Re: Local vs. Long Distance from NPA-NXX? >Short of calling the LEC, does anyone know of any public- >domain resource(s) that can determine, given two NPA-NNX's, >whether a call between the two would be local, intraLATA or >long distance? Thanks in advance! The good news is that it's easy enough to tell intra-LATA from inter-LATA from the NPA-prefix lists you can download from nanpa.com. It's close to impossible to tell reliably what calls are local and what calls aren't, even if you're willing to pay for the information. There are services that attempt to collect that sort of stuff, but their job is made much more difficult by the existence of multiple calling plans, CLECs that have different local calling areas from each other and the ILEC, and in some places, "local" message unit calls that cost more than "toll" calls. You can't use inter-LATA as a hint that a call is toll; there are many places that have free local calls across a LATA line, state line, or even into Canada. - -- John R. Levine, IECC, POB 727, Trumansburg NY 14886 +1 607 387 6869 johnl@iecc.com, Village Trustee and Sewer Commissioner, http://iecc.com/johnl, Member, Provisional board, Coalition Against Unsolicited Commercial E-mail - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 1 Jan 2001 16:59:46 -0500 From: johnl@iecc.com (John R. Levine) Subject: Re: Cheap US->UK residential phone? >The cheapest UK->US providers are about 3p or 4p a minute, eg >Swiftcall or Onetel. What cheap reliable US->UK providers would you >recommend? The regular ones like Sprint and MCI are around 10c/min but >I notice smaller companies doing 6c/min for residential. I've had good luck with dialaround provider Cognidial at www.cognidial.com who charge 6.8 cpm US->UK. You tell them what your phone numbers are, then to make a call you dial their 800 number, then the number you want. It's not a calling card, you can't use it other than from one of the numbers you've signed up. - -- John R. Levine, IECC, POB 727, Trumansburg NY 14886 +1 607 387 6869 johnl@iecc.com, Village Trustee and Sewer Commissioner, http://iecc.com/johnl, Member, Provisional board, Coalition Against Unsolicited Commercial E-mail - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 1 Jan 2001 17:23:56 -0500 From: johnl@iecc.com (John R. Levine) Subject: Re: More Caller ID Info >What does an 800 number cost for (very) low volume personal use? I pay 7.9 cpm. >Telemarketers often hide behind PBX systems that provide useless >CallerID info. Do those systems provide useful ANI data? Sure, you get the ANI of the main number. >Are there regulations against telemarketers calling 800 numbers? Are >they effective? I can't ever recall a telemarketer calling one of mine. They don't put toll free numbers on their lists. >Would getting an 800 number (instead of a normal residential phone) be >an useful tactic against telemarketers? Nope. The reason is that low-volume 800 numbers forward to a regular phone number, and it's not generally possible to tell when the phone rings whether it's from the 800 number or not. If you want a dedicated 800 number you have to bring in a T1 and guarantee a call volume sufficient to keep it busy. Personally, I find that I've been able to keep the telemarketers to a minimum by saying "Stop - put down your script. Do you have a Do Not Call list as required by law? Good. Put me on it and don't call back, ever." Click. - -- John R. Levine, IECC, POB 727, Trumansburg NY 14886 +1 607 387 6869 johnl@iecc.com, Village Trustee and Sewer Commissioner, http://iecc.com/johnl, Member, Provisional board, Coalition Against Unsolicited Commercial E-mail - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 1 Jan 2001 18:38:11 -0500 From: Roy Subject: Re: Local vs. Long Distance from NPA-NXX? I don't see the LATA codes in the NANPA lists I use (CA). The rate center is there but then you have to know which rate center is in which LATA and I am not sure that even works. "John R. Levine" wrote: > >Short of calling the LEC, does anyone know of any public- > >domain resource(s) that can determine, given two NPA-NNX's, > >whether a call between the two would be local, intraLATA or > >long distance? Thanks in advance! > > The good news is that it's easy enough to tell intra-LATA from > inter-LATA from the NPA-prefix lists you can download from nanpa.com. > > It's close to impossible to tell reliably what calls are local and > what calls aren't, even if you're willing to pay for the information. > There are services that attempt to collect that sort of stuff, but > their job is made much more difficult by the existence of multiple > calling plans, CLECs that have different local calling areas from each > other and the ILEC, and in some places, "local" message unit calls > that cost more than "toll" calls. > > You can't use inter-LATA as a hint that a call is toll; there are many > places that have free local calls across a LATA line, state line, or > even into Canada. > > -- > John R. Levine, IECC, POB 727, Trumansburg NY 14886 +1 607 387 6869 > johnl@iecc.com, Village Trustee and Sewer Commissioner, http://iecc.com/johnl, > Member, Provisional board, Coalition Against Unsolicited Commercial E-mail > -- > The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail > messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 1 Jan 2001 19:06:25 -0500 From: iverson0900@mnjazz.com (Al Iverson) Subject: Re: kill this meme: "Media3 put Peacefire in the line of fire..." In article <3.0.6.32.20010101092150.00a08b70@206.81.192.1>, Bennett Haselton wrote: > Do you have anything specific? Specifically, I'm curious about the following. You've commented that AboveNet is not making full disclosure to its clients as to the nature of the blocking it employs. That's an intriguing thought, and very abstractly I would concur that an ISP or network provider should definitely make it very clear and easy for all of its end users to understand the criteria they use to decide what traffic to accept or reject. However, there's a flip side to that coin, that I haven't seen you comment on yet. This netblock where your web site resides, it was listed on the MAPS RBL *before* your web site was moved to that block. I see ample evidence that your ISP was aware that this block was listed on the MAPS RBL. My comments aren't about the validity or justification of the MAPS RBL listing. I'm simply curious, that in your stated interest in full disclosure, how come you haven't documented for us the disclosure, or lack thereof, that your ISP *knew* that they were moving you to a network segment that many people on the internet are already refusing traffic from, because of the other people on that segment. I'm not sure it's time to kill this meme yet. There might still be some life left to it. - -- Al Iverson - Minnesota Jazz Online - http://www.mnjazz.com/ All opinions are mine alone unless I state otherwise. - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 1 Jan 2001 19:21:13 -0500 From: John De Hoog Subject: Re: kill this meme: "Media3 put Peacefire in the line of fire..." iverson0900@mnjazz.com (Al Iverson) wrote: > My comments aren't about the validity or justification of the MAPS RBL > listing. I'm simply curious, that in your stated interest in full > disclosure, how come you haven't documented for us the disclosure, or lack > thereof, that your ISP *knew* that they were moving you to a network > segment that many people on the internet are already refusing traffic > from, because of the other people on that segment. Have I been away from the English-speaking world too long, or does the above sentence make something less than total sense? - -- John De Hoog, Tokyo dehoog@nifty.com http://dehoog.org Using EdMax Ver. 2.80.1 - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 1 Jan 2001 20:15:46 -0500 From: dannyb@panix.com (danny burstein) Subject: US Constitution and misreadings, was: Re: BLOCK: Media3, peacefire.org In <3.0.6.32.20010101110846.00ab0440@206.81.192.1> Bennett Haselton writes: [lots of silly stuff, yes silly stuff, snipped] >The First Amendment does not protect "speech" that consists of false >statements made by a company about a product that they're selling, whether >that product is (1) a list of sites, or (2) Internet access that is >secretly filtered according to that list. It protects the list itself, not >necessarily all uses of it. The First Amendment to the US Constitution has almost NOTHING to do with commercial organizations. It concerns itself with GOVERNMENT censorship. Your attempt to bring it into this discussion seems like a blatant last ditch effort by you to deivert attention away from the real issue here, which is that your (otherwise laudable) material is now in the midst of a spam haven. In this specific situation vis-a-vis Peacefire and Media3, you have placed your voice in the midst of a group of annoying and loud trouble makers. COMMERCIAL organizations and PRIVATE individuals have decided that the volume of car alarms and loudspeakers and bad music and other annoyances from that neighborhood is so intense that they're putting up sound berms to block and isolate the noise. All the noise. All the sound. All the messages. All the time. Without discrimination as to which source *in that neighborhood* they're coming from. *You've* made the choice to move into and stay in that neighborhood. *You* have the option of moving out. While the groups that put up this berm probably should have done a better job of advising their users, this is a PRIVATE decision, a BUSINESS choice, and has little to do with GOV'T. The US Constitution and the Bill of Rights do NOT apply to this [1]. [1] for the most part. Yes, we can compose Clintonesque scenarios that would draw it in. Let's not. Thank you. - -- _____________________________________________________ Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key dannyb@panix.com [to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded] - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 1 Jan 2001 20:16:37 -0500 From: pw@panix.com (Paul Wallich) Subject: Re: BLOCK: Media3, peacefire.org In article , sjsobol@NorthShoreTechnologies.net (Steve Sobol) wrote: >From 'Bennett Haselton': > >>claiming in multiple places on their Web site that the RBL is a list of >>"spammers", "people who send spam", "sites that do not follow responsible >>emailing practices", etc., > >Included in the 'etc.' is Spam Support Services, which includes selling of >spamware. MAPS is *not* ambiguous about this. Media3, however, would seem to have its class C on the list because it sells space to people who provide spam support services, yet another level of indirection. You can argue that selling the space is itself a spam support service, but that starts you into an ugly regress, e.g. is anyone who makes money by passing packets and doesn't subscribe to the RBL engaging in spam support services? Obviously boycotts like this work best when they hit "innocent" people who might get a provider to make a policy change, but I can see how Bennett Haselton might draw a nice analogy to censorware companies who put an entire site or hosting service on their list because of a few bad pages or an insufficiently-strict AUP. After all, if your cause is just, a few innocents are a small price to pay... (In general, I think that the probity of a boycott technique should be measured by how much you would squawk if it were implemented by someone who espoused the cause you hate most.) >http://mail-abuse.org/rbl/candidacy.html#ByAssociation > >>what is on the RBL.) And partly companies like AboveNet that are not clear >>about how they use it (blocking Web access without informing customers is >>really pretty low). And if a downstream ISP knows that AboveNet blocks Web >>sites, but then re-sells Internet access to the public without telling them >>this, then that downstream ISP is partly responsible as well. > >I recall seeing somewhere on MAPS's site that they require users of the RBL >to indicate to customers and their downstreams that they *are* using the RBL. >But I can't find any indication of that on their web site, so I'm CC'ing >this post to a couple friends who work there. I could be wrong, and maybe >it's just because I'm still hung over from New Year's Eve -- but I could >swear it's there. :) ... >Of course it matters. It's not a tangential topic. MAPS says the reason for >the RBL listing of the Class C in which your site sits is because there are >several other sites that support spam services. If that's not true, MAPS >shouldn't list the Class C. But I, for one, believe it to be true. As an outsider I'm rather interested by the choice of Class C network as the granularity for the black-hole list. Obviously it's slightly more convenient than doing blocking by IP (and slightly more effective if someone owns the whole block and can play address games); it also is almost certain to block people who have only the bad judgement or misfortune to be in the wrong netblock -- as above, this may be the point, but if so you have to ask whether it's a good strategy. (And if it truly is a good strategy, why not go whole hog and block Class B's or Class A's, other than the fact that those folks could squash you like a bug?) >>If individuals want >>to boycott Peacefire voluntarily because we're hosted on Media3, that's up >>to them. But my own survey of AboveNet users indicated that none of them >>knew their Internet access was being blocked without their permission. > >You said exactly the same thing to me in one of our discussions in private >e-mail. I pointed out that that may or may not be AboveNet's fault. > >I then asked whether said users were direct customers of AboveNet or not. >It's very likely many (most?) of them are users of ISPs downstream, in which >case there is no obligation for AboveNet to tell those particular people >that they're using the RBL. They need to tell the ISPs connecting directly >to them, and the ISPs need to tell the end-users. > >While I appreciate your efforts to discuss this topic with me in a rational, >calm manner, and I wish to do the same for you, I do think that you avoided >directly answering this question when I initially posed it to you. Again, as >I mentioned before, this does not imply that I think you're right or wrong, >but the phrase "AboveNet users" is ambiguous and (I think) intentionally >vague. As a random end-user, I think that vagueness hits the mark quite well. I don't get to choose where my packets go after they leave my machine or (at best) leave my ISP. Everything that's ever been written about the internet describes the net as a "cloud" where packets magically get shunted to their destinations, not one where upper-tier and backbone providers pick and choose what to let through. (Note also that someone like above.net can do this only because they are a relatively small player -- if sprint, say, decided to toss packets it didn't like, DoJ would be all over them.) One other thing I'm wondering: since above.net also acts as a backbone provider - -- or at least sometimes my traceroutes have claimed that -- insofar as its routers advertise routes that include blackholed netblocks (and I don't know that they do) they would be doing a Very Bad Thing for the integrity of the net as a whole, no matter how noble the RBL's intention. >>The First Amendment does not protect "speech" that consists of false >>statements made by a company about a product that they're selling, whether >>that product is (1) a list of sites, or (2) Internet access that is >>secretly filtered according to that list. It protects the list itself, not >>necessarily all uses of it. > >I agree; however, what we are dealing with at this point is not necessarily >a censorship issue, but rather one of contract law. It's quite possible for it to be both, unless you believe that "censorship" should only ever be applied to pure government action. paul - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 1 Jan 2001 20:52:53 -0500 From: johnl@iecc.com (John R. Levine) Subject: Re: Local vs. Long Distance from NPA-NXX? > I don't see the LATA codes in the NANPA lists I use (CA). The rate > center is there but then you have to know which rate center is in > which LATA and I am not sure that even works. Oops, you're quite right, no LATA into there. Poking around the net, I found http://www.ccmi.com/lcadata.html which is a local calling area directory you can buy for $200, keeping in mind that if you want reliable info you have to update it weekly. - -- John R. Levine, IECC, POB 727, Trumansburg NY 14886 +1 607 387 6869 johnl@iecc.com, Village Trustee and Sewer Commissioner, http://iecc.com/johnl, Member, Provisional board, Coalition Against Unsolicited Commercial E-mail - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ End of Telecom Digest V2000 #170 ******************************** Date: 2 Jan 2001 06:15:12 -0500 From: owner-telecom-digest@telecom-digest.org (Telecom Digest) To: telecom-digest@telecom-digest.org Subject: Telecom Digest V2000 #171 Telecom Digest Tuesday, January 2 2001 Volume 2000 : Number 171 In this issue: Re: kill this meme: "Media3 put Peacefire in the line of fire..." re: kill this meme: "Media3 put Peacefire in the line of fire..." court decisions on ads as "free speech" Re: Finding Public Domain Music-On-Hold Re: related copyright issue, was: Re: Finding Public Domain MOH Re: MAPS alters back-dated press release; withdraws Media3 accusations Re: Finding Public Domain Music-On-Hold Re: digital anac? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 1 Jan 2001 20:59:26 -0500 From: iverson0900@mnjazz.com (Al Iverson) Subject: Re: kill this meme: "Media3 put Peacefire in the line of fire..." In article <200101020021.JAA24258@coral.ocn.ne.jp>, John De Hoog wrote: > iverson0900@mnjazz.com (Al Iverson) wrote: > > > My comments aren't about the validity or justification of the MAPS RBL > > listing. I'm simply curious, that in your stated interest in full > > disclosure, how come you haven't documented for us the disclosure, or lack > > thereof, that your ISP *knew* that they were moving you to a network > > segment that many people on the internet are already refusing traffic > > from, because of the other people on that segment. > > Have I been away from the English-speaking world too long, or does the > above sentence make something less than total sense? Sorry, I didn't go to college. He claims that AboveNet is being deceptive by not fully disclosing the situation surrounding the blocking. Yet it's my impression based on what's been said that his ISP (Media3) did not inform him that the new IP address they assigned him was already being blocked by 40% of the internet. I'm curious as to why that is, and what his feelings are about that. Best, Al Iverson - -- Al Iverson - Minnesota Jazz Online - http://www.mnjazz.com/ All opinions are mine alone unless I state otherwise. - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 1 Jan 2001 21:46:58 -0500 From: Dave Anderson Subject: re: kill this meme: "Media3 put Peacefire in the line of fire..." [Quoting rearranged for readability.] On Mon, 01 Jan 2001 09:21:50 -0800, Bennett Haselton wrote: >At 12:00 PM 1/1/01 EST, Dave Anderson wrote: >> >>In the case at hand (based on my own knowledge as someone who hasn't been >>actively involved in spam-fighting but has been paying attention to it for >>the past several years) your research has been incredibly shoddy. This >>forces me to question whether your other research is of any better quality. >>For me, and probably for a lot of other people, you've done major damange >>to Peacefire's credibility. > >Do you have anything specific? Knowledge of how spammers and spam-service providers operate, of the importance of 'facilitators' who don't actually send spam themselves but provide support services to spammers, and of the reputations of some of the people who've been pointing out your errors. Based on this (I haven't done any independent researching of this particular situation) I have little doubt that Media3 deliberately and without warning put Peacefire in the middle of a nest of spammers and/or spam supporters that it knew was already on the RBL with the explicit intention of causing the type of outcry you've been making, and that they have been consistently lying to you to fan the flames. Failing to thoroughly check out the situation and the history that led to it (especially if, as appears to be the case, you largely accepted as true whatever Media3 told you) before posting rather inflammatory comments is, in my book, shoddy research. Dave - -- Dave Anderson - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 1 Jan 2001 22:15:28 -0500 From: heywood@gloucester.com (Heywood Jaiblomi) Subject: court decisions on ads as "free speech" A case decided by the U.S. Supreme Court in 1970 is often quoted as showing the rights of the individual exceed that of the speaker. The case dealt with unwanted postal mail. In the Supreme Court's decision in Rowan v. U.S. Post Office, the court held: "Nothing in the Constitution compels us to listen to or to view any unwanted communication, whatever its merit. . . We therefore categorically reject the argument that a vendor has the right under the Constitution or otherwise to send unwanted material into the home of another. . . We repeat, the right of a mailer stops at the outer boundary of every person's domain." - -- It ain't the whistle that moves the train. - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 1 Jan 2001 23:10:07 -0500 From: "John Schmerold" Subject: Re: Finding Public Domain Music-On-Hold Sounds like BBC is best solution. Anyone know of a radio that will tune in BBC & allow connection to most MOH phone system connectors? - -------------------------------- John Schmerold Katy Computer, LLC 20 Meramec Station Rd Valley Park, MO 63088 314-316-9000 voice 775-227-6947 fax From: hollaar@faith.cs.utah.edu (Lee Hollaar) > Subject: Re: Finding Public Domain Music-On-Hold > > In article <3A4FAAB9.8B639C01@garlic.com> Roy writes: > > > > > >I would like to point out that there is almost no such things as "public domain > >classical CDs". While the original composition may not be copyrighted, the > >recording of the performance of the music is. > > But the public performance right in copyright does not apply to sound > recordings. It only applies to "literary, musical, dramatic, and > choreographic works, pantominmes, and motion pictures and other audiovisual > works." See 17 USC 106(5). > - -- - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 2 Jan 2001 01:02:40 -0500 From: "Ed Ellers" Subject: Re: related copyright issue, was: Re: Finding Public Domain MOH Danny Burstein wrote: "Which, iirc, was more or less how the copyright to the movie "it's a wonderful life" was grabbed back. Although the film itself had reverted to "public domain" (which led to years of it showing up, repeatedly, on pretty much every tv station), it turned out that the _music_ had not." In a similar vein, ever notice how Paramount takes extreme pains to claim trademark protection for the various names associated with Star Trek -- the title, the major character names, etc.? Allegedly somebody at Paramount forgot to renew the copyright registration on some (but not all) of the episodes of the original series, so they now use trademark rights to exert control over any use of those episodes. - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 2 Jan 2001 03:38:23 -0500 From: jay@west.net (Jay Hennigan) Subject: Re: MAPS alters back-dated press release; withdraws Media3 accusations On 1 Jan 2001 15:28:13 -0500, Bennett Haselton wrote: :Below is the original version of a press release that was sent out by MAPS :on 12/13/2000. (You can email rbl@mail-abuse.org to verify its authenticity.) : :In the fourth paragraph, MAPS accused Media3 of "refusing to require their :web-hosting customers to stop advertising their websites by using :unsolicited commercial email". This is also the version of the press :release that was originally posted to :http://mail-abuse.org/pressreleases/2000-12-13.html (as verified by someone :who saved a copy from that date) and went out over the wire to MAPS's press :list. : :The current version at : http://mail-abuse.org/pressreleases/2000-12-13.html :has those accusations removed. I'm not a party to it, but if I recall correctly this lawsuit or at least a similar one involved a gag order requiring MAPS to retract certain statements which they had made. It may be that the change to the press release was made as a result of a court order as opposed to MAPS attempting to correct an error. : (Media3 does not tolerate their customers :sending spam, and kicks off at least one customer per month because of it. :The real reasons why Media3 is in the RBL are at :http://evfiles.mail-abuse.org/rbl/ev/209.211.253-24.txt.) Which appears to be a suitable reason for such listing, III. hosting web pages or otherwise providing connectivity to those who provide software or services for distributing spam; and VI. continuing to provide service or access to customers providing spam support services after such activity has been brought to the access provider's attention. excerpted from http://mail-abuse.org/rbl/candidacy.html#ByAssociation :If MAPS decided that these accusations were so unsupportable that they :pulled them off their Web site, then they should have also sent out a :retraction to everyone who received the original press release. Sending :out a press release with errors, and then altering the back-dated version :on your Web site without posting a proper retraction, is a serious threat :to any organization's credibility. MAPS likely had no choice lest they be held in contempt of court. You are making an assumption that the release was modified because of errors, which may not be the case. Again, as others have done, I ask why have you not asked Media3 to move your site out of that netblock or sought connectivity from another provider? It's my understanding that offers have been made to you to host your site at no charge. Your site is hosted in the Internet equivalent of a very unsavory, filthy neighborhood through no fault of your own. Ask your landlord to clean up the neighborhood, or move. If you do neither, then don't be surprised if respectable people tell their friends not to go anywhere near your present place of business. You're (presumably) paying good rent, and your landlord has put you in a slum. Blame the landlord, not the customers who are staying away because of the stink. - -- Jay Hennigan - Network Administration - jay@west.net NetLojix Communications, Inc. NASDAQ: NETX - http://www.netlojix.com/ WestNet: Connecting you to the planet. 805 884-6323 - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 2 Jan 2001 05:03:12 -0500 From: "Ed Ellers" Subject: Re: Finding Public Domain Music-On-Hold Gary Novosielski wrote: "Too bad there are no copper wires running from your phone room to the outside world, or you might be able to use one for a long-wire external antenna." Why the sarcasm? If you're reasonably familiar with this field, you must know that it's a very big no-no to connect anything to telephone company lines other than FCC-registered (or grandfathered) equipment. - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 2 Jan 2001 05:39:07 -0500 From: jay@west.net (Jay Hennigan) Subject: Re: digital anac? On 30 Dec 2000 14:14:25 -0500, John Graves wrote: :I used to have a piece of test equipment called a Techtronics 9925. :This meter had the ability to anac a number and the number was printed :on the lcd in digital format. These meter's were recalled by I guess :our district level, because they had a reputation of being unreliable in :their capacitance to distance measurements. I made the mistake of :turning mine back in. The manufacturer is most likely Tektronix. Try digging around the http://www.tek.com/ site. :My questions are:. Where can I get the protocols and source to recreate :the "digital ani" ? Are there any open source examples. If not, how do :I find the applicable documentation to accomplish this. I have a decent :amount of programming experience, At least I know a heck of a lot more :than they teach in you average VisBasic course. lol It may be as simple as a DTMF receiver built into the device. There are ANAC numbers which read back the number in DTMF, presumably for use with some type of craft test set similar to yours. There used to also be some ANACs that would read the number on a loudspeaker in the C.O., which could get annoying if done in error a lot. - -- Jay Hennigan - Network Administration - jay@west.net NetLojix Communications, Inc. NASDAQ: NETX - http://www.netlojix.com/ WestNet: Connecting you to the planet. 805 884-6323 - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ End of Telecom Digest V2000 #171 ******************************** Date: 2 Jan 2001 14:41:33 -0500 From: owner-telecom-digest@telecom-digest.org (Telecom Digest) To: telecom-digest@telecom-digest.org Subject: Telecom Digest V2000 #172 Telecom Digest Tuesday, January 2 2001 Volume 2000 : Number 172 In this issue: Re: Modular Surface Jack Re: BLOCK: Media3, peacefire.org Re: POTS line terminations. Information please Re: BLOCK: Media3, peacefire.org Re: BLOCK: Media3, peacefire.org ISDN Test Scripts Re: BLOCK: Media3, peacefire.org 4 new area codes for Massachusetts to cause mandatory 10 digit dialing soon Whise is Peacefire still on Media3??? RE: POTS line terminations Telecom Update (Canada) #264, January 2, 2001 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 2 Jan 2001 07:04:46 -0500 From: "Smith, Marty" Subject: Re: Modular Surface Jack We usually tend to cross connect the station cable (white/blue, blue/white) pair to (in your case) the red and green pair. Also try posting messages to http://www.mailgate.org/comp/comp.dcom.sys.nortel/index.html - -- Posted from dymwsm14.mailwatch.com [204.253.83.38] via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG - -- The Telecom Digest is currently mostly robomoderated. Please mail messages to editor@telecom-digest.org. ------------------------------ Date: 2 Jan 2001 08:52:27 -0500 From: Steve Linford Subject: Re: BLOCK: Media3, peacefire.org In article , sjsobol@NorthShoreTechnologies.net (Steve Sobol) wrote: > I recall seeing somewhere on MAPS's site that they require users of > the RBL to indicate to customers and their downstreams that they > *are* using the RBL. They advise it but can't require it. However before Bennett yells "Gotcha!" the reason they can't require it is that an ISP is a private entity and can't be required to do anything if they don't want to. MAPS strongly advises ISPs do disclose any filters in use, and most ISPs do - and certainly nowdays providing email accounts protected from spam by the MAPS lists is a strong sales feature. > >There is a nuanced debate about whether sites which sell software > >like List Sorcerer (not to mention sites like Peacefire which are > >not doing anything except being *hosted* on the same ISP) are > >"responsible" for the spam problem Bennett, why don't you just load one of these sites http://www.bulk-isp.net (only a few IPs away from you at 209.211.253.248) and see for yourself. Scroll down to the "We mass mail for you", use your own eyes. You can even use your ears: Would you like to hear the owner of that site say that he spams and provides 'bullet-proof' spam hosting? The following MP3 file is Sam Al (Saied Alzalzalah), a major scumbag who runs http://www.bulk-isp.net (and quite a few other spam sites in your block) telling MAPS that he spams, just click this and listen: http://www.spamhaus.org/images/SamAlC48.mp3 Or how about this from the same spammer, Sam Al, bulkisp.nu (also at 209.211.253.248 in your block), he's semi-illiterate by the way: From: info@bulkisp.nu Subject: We Spam And Nobody Can Stop US Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 16:03:24 -0500 Reply-To: info@bulkisp.nu To: @att.net Message-Id: Srew the atispammers, We Beat them all. Hi My name is Sam were are spammers. We can set u up so u can spam your heart out. We have bullet proff servers, bullet proff list, and bulllet proff hosting. Just call us at 323 874 4647, or fax us at 323 512 4950 or email us at info@bulkisp.nu or go to our web page http://www.bulkisp.nu Nobody can stop us we got it down. Don't worry about the atispammers there is nothing they can do. Call me I will give you all the secrets. Sam PS Believe we are are protected nothing can hurt us or you. Still convinced the poor little spammers in your block don't actually